Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
Guys, please help me out with your opinion.
I ordered tiles and had them delivered to the property.
I specifically told the contractor in writing, what tiles were to go on the bathroom floor and walls.
Today he sent me pictures of the tiled bathroom. I was shocked when I saw that he has used random tiles, not the ones I had instructed. By random, I mean I didn’t even buy these tiles, so I don’t know where they came from. He just found some tiles laying around the property and put those up. But because there weren’t enough of them, he then used another tile, so there are 2 types of floor tile, which looks atrocious. They are also beige, a colour I think is woeful, whilst the rest of the colour scheme through the house is white and grey.
I’ve asked him to remove and redo it and he’s not happy and won’t redo it. I don’t know how to resolve this situation.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
6y
Yup, definitely a f*ck up...but more on your part than his...
It takes at least a couple days to tile floors and walls -- did you not visit the property at all during this time, or did you not have someone representing you visit the property? It's YOUR project, YOUR business, YOUR house -- which means when something like this goes wrong, it's YOUR fault.
Given your description of the issue, I'm going to guess that this guy is a handyman type, and isn't full-time tile contractor -- professional tile contractors wouldn't make a mistake like this (they would check, double-check and triple-check their work before proceeding). Which means you were probably hiring someone who was less expensive than a professional tile contractor. Nothing wrong with that, but that's just another reason why it's YOUR responsibility to oversee what he's doing and make sure he's not making a mistake.
Now, if I'm wrong, and he is a professional tile contractor, my guess is that he'll be happy to fix this work for free, as a good tile guy would care about his reputation. On the other hand, if I'm right, and you tried to save some money without managing him closely, then I would eat the cost and chalk this one up to a lesson learned. Next time, either hire someone who is more experienced and self-sufficient, manage more closely and/or put systems in place to ensure this doesn't happen (like having a clear scope of work with diagrams/pictures).
Btw, I don't mean to be harsh here -- I've made PLENTY of similar mistakes over the years, but I make fewer and fewer of them as time goes on, as I accept full responsibility and recognize that I'm the one who needs to do better next time...
Next week will be 10 years since I wrote this article -- I read it at least once a year to remind myself that everything that goes wrong in my business is MY fault:
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Tough situation. Have you ever worked with this contractor before? Where did he find random ugly tiles in your property that he chose to use? Do you have anything in writing to prove/disprove what exact tiles he is to use?
At this point it is a he said she said deal and without documents clearly telling him what to use, or to confirm the tiles before install, you may be stuck. This is one of the downfalls if not being on the job often and details getting missed. Hopefully it can be resolved and it will end up as a good lesson moving forward.
Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
6y
From your description I wouldn't pay him. If he threatens a lien, he has to testify that he completed the work to specification; lying would be perjury I believe. Tread carefully though and if you do pay him and are out only a couple of hundred dollars, learn from that lesson.
I ordered tiles and had them delivered to the property.
I specifically told the contractor in writing, what tiles were to go on the bathroom floor and walls.
Today he sent me pictures of the tiled bathroom. I was shocked when I saw that he has used random tiles, not the ones I had instructed. By random, I mean I didn’t even buy these tiles, so I don’t know where they came from. He just found some tiles laying around the property and put those up. But because there weren’t enough of them, he then used another tile, so there are 2 types of floor tile, which looks atrocious. They are also beige, a colour I think is woeful, whilst the rest of the colour scheme through the house is white and grey.
I’ve asked him to remove and redo it and he’s not happy and won’t redo it. I don’t know how to resolve this situation.
This is a common occurrence with tile especially if you do not have the right systems in place.
If you have clear documentation of what tiles were supposed to be used where and the contractor signed off on it (this is a submittal) then do not pay them. If they refuse to fix the tile then you have to hire somebody else to fix it then decide if you want to try and go after them for any cost difference which will likely not be worth the effort as it will be difficult to prove who said what and less you have everything in writing and signed off by both parties.
The way to avoid this in the future is to let the sub contractor supply the material and or make sure you have a detail submittal signed by both parties of what goes where and make sure everyone knows not to install any tile until either you or someone on your team can be on site before the tile goes down to make sure everything is in the right place.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
6y
Yup, definitely a f*ck up...but more on your part than his...
It takes at least a couple days to tile floors and walls -- did you not visit the property at all during this time, or did you not have someone representing you visit the property? It's YOUR project, YOUR business, YOUR house -- which means when something like this goes wrong, it's YOUR fault.
Given your description of the issue, I'm going to guess that this guy is a handyman type, and isn't full-time tile contractor -- professional tile contractors wouldn't make a mistake like this (they would check, double-check and triple-check their work before proceeding). Which means you were probably hiring someone who was less expensive than a professional tile contractor. Nothing wrong with that, but that's just another reason why it's YOUR responsibility to oversee what he's doing and make sure he's not making a mistake.
Now, if I'm wrong, and he is a professional tile contractor, my guess is that he'll be happy to fix this work for free, as a good tile guy would care about his reputation. On the other hand, if I'm right, and you tried to save some money without managing him closely, then I would eat the cost and chalk this one up to a lesson learned. Next time, either hire someone who is more experienced and self-sufficient, manage more closely and/or put systems in place to ensure this doesn't happen (like having a clear scope of work with diagrams/pictures).
Btw, I don't mean to be harsh here -- I've made PLENTY of similar mistakes over the years, but I make fewer and fewer of them as time goes on, as I accept full responsibility and recognize that I'm the one who needs to do better next time...
Next week will be 10 years since I wrote this article -- I read it at least once a year to remind myself that everything that goes wrong in my business is MY fault:
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
6y
@Michael King
I understand your point but he has done a lot of other work which was good and this was the only thing he stuffed up.
I can’t not pay him for his work. He’s been working over a week and a half and he needs to be paid.
I was considering maybe cutting out some amount for the stuff up. I just don’t want to have him pissed and then he could come back and steal things from the job site, which is usually how it goes.
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@J Scott is correct, you really should have been there or had someone there to make sure it was done correct. I have only ever hired tile installers a couple times and every time the job didn’t start until we had an on site meeting with materials on hand, we walked through the layout and I followed up numerous times during install just to have a look. Too much money and room for error to just let it be left to change.
I have stated in writing, via text message, exactly what tiles are to be used.
Specifically my text was-
“Tiles-
Daltile 3x6 bright white is the wall tile for the bathroom.
MSI 12x24 metro glacier is the floor tile.”
I assume he responded to that text message indicated he received it? If that is the case, then I personally wouldn’t be paying him and have an on site meeting, with that text asking him why he installed the incorrect tile. Have you met on site with him? Have you paid him?
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
6y
@J Scott
I’m all for taking self responsibility.
The reason I wasn’t there was because my visa to enter the US was denied and that’s caused a myriad of problems. Otherwise, yes I would definitely be on the job site everyday.
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
6y
@Brian Pulaski
Completely agree. I’m pissed because I hired a lady to be on the job site everyday and oversee the work. She was also given the information about what tiles are what and she didn’t pick up that he was using the wrong tiles.
The reason I wasn’t there was because my visa to enter the US was denied and that’s caused a myriad of problems. Otherwise, yes I would definitely be on the job site everyday.
Okay, so it sounds like this one is pretty clear cut then...
You ran into a personal issue (which happens), didn't do the oversight you knew you should have done (which happens), and the project suffered because of it (which happens).
But, since it was your fault, just pay the guy... And next time, either have someone else check up on the progress or have the contractor stop work until you're back on-site.
Completely agree. I’m pissed because I hired a lady to be on the job site everyday and oversee the work. She was also given the information about what tiles are what and she didn’t pick up that he was using the wrong tiles.
What does she say about this situation? Now it seems you have multiple people who screwed up. I wouldn’t be paying either of them until this was figured out to your satisfaction.
Morton, IL · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 13 votes
6y
I’ve found out the hard way that it’s very easy for a contractor to put a lien on a house, even when they are at fault. So I’d suggest to get with a “good” real estate attorney to see how best to proceed. I’d hate to see him putting a lien on the house.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Nat Chan where is this property locAted? Are you local to it? Honestly you have right to be upset but the contractor isn’t going to RE-do it. You will have to likely fire them and go with someone else. Cheaper isn’t always better when it comes to contractors.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
6y
@Nat Chan I answered my own question. You’re not even in the country...this whole project was probably a bad idea and you’ll be lucky if things don’t get worse before they get better.
Why would you start a rehab when you’re not even sure you can enter the country yet? That seems like putting the horse before the cart.
Contractor · Osterville, MA · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 30 votes
6y
@Nat Chan
If he’s a good contractor and gives a dam,he would have redone it. Take a picture of the finished floor and post on social media. That might motivate him to do the right thing.
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
6y
@Caleb Heimsoth
The property is in Daytona Beach. I bought it as a bankruptcy sale and got a pretty good deal.
I definitely didn’t expect my visa to be denied (it was denied specifically because I own real estate in the US).
The city sent letters about a lot of property violations immediately after the sale. They wanted the buildings repainted, signage removed, tree removed, windows fixed and various other things. Those issues had to be fixed immediately anyway and I made the decision to remodel the whole house whilst at it. Of course it’s a highly undesirable situation but I was left to make a choice out of a bad scenario.
I have been project managing everyday remotely, buying all the materials and having them delivered and trying to monitor the work as closely as possible. The rest of the house looks very nice and the house is now finished.
There’s a massive commercial premises also on the lot but I’m not going to try to remodel it remotely like the house.
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
6y
@Bill Quigley
I’m thinking that paying him the 2 grand agreed on for this progress instalment is the much cheaper option than paying a lawyer the 3 grand upfront retainer.
Well he thinks it looks great. I’ve found a lot of contractors have very poor design taste, which is why I NEVER leave design decisions up to them.
Read through the thread. I'm not going to pile on, Nat. But the best line I've ever heard about this just got written over in another thread, and I'm repeating it here for the community. Don't remember who wrote it, but it's golden.
"If you decide you're going to be the GC on a project, you'd better plan on sleeping in the driveway until it's done."
Again, a thought for the community: I think some tech could have helped out here. Just a FaceTime check could have avoided a lot. This in no way helps you now, Nat, I'm sorry.
Thanks for posting. I once ended up in a wrestling match with a tile contractor wearing an ankle monitor, as his son, similarly adorned, looked on. The father got blind drunk and killed his kid with a punch to the throat a few years later. Some of the tile guys out there are seriously off.
Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
6y
No way I'd pay a contractor for disregarding my explicit instructions. You pay them to do what you want them to do, not whatever they feel like doing. I spent my first couple of years in the flipping business doing everything myself. If I have to stand there and watch these guys work then they may as well go home. It took me a looong time to find guys who can carry out my instructions without me constantly correcting them.. but you MUST have people who can perform like this if you're ever going to really grow your business. You can't be running around telling these guys to tie their shoes every morning. I'm really surprised at how many "this is entirely your fault" responses the OP is getting. People here must tolerate a lot more nonsense out of their contractors than I do. I expect them to perform well not just when I'm standing there, but when I'm away as well. That said, I do try to get progress pictures along the way. We have the technology! Use it.