How to handle a contractor mistake
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
6yYup, definitely a f*ck up...but more on your part than his...
It takes at least a couple days to tile floors and walls -- did you not visit the property at all during this time, or did you not have someone representing you visit the property? It's YOUR project, YOUR business, YOUR house -- which means when something like this goes wrong, it's YOUR fault.
Given your description of the issue, I'm going to guess that this guy is a handyman type, and isn't full-time tile contractor -- professional tile contractors wouldn't make a mistake like this (they would check, double-check and triple-check their work before proceeding). Which means you were probably hiring someone who was less expensive than a professional tile contractor. Nothing wrong with that, but that's just another reason why it's YOUR responsibility to oversee what he's doing and make sure he's not making a mistake.
Now, if I'm wrong, and he is a professional tile contractor, my guess is that he'll be happy to fix this work for free, as a good tile guy would care about his reputation. On the other hand, if I'm right, and you tried to save some money without managing him closely, then I would eat the cost and chalk this one up to a lesson learned. Next time, either hire someone who is more experienced and self-sufficient, manage more closely and/or put systems in place to ensure this doesn't happen (like having a clear scope of work with diagrams/pictures).
Btw, I don't mean to be harsh here -- I've made PLENTY of similar mistakes over the years, but I make fewer and fewer of them as time goes on, as I accept full responsibility and recognize that I'm the one who needs to do better next time...
Next week will be 10 years since I wrote this article -- I read it at least once a year to remind myself that everything that goes wrong in my business is MY fault:
69 Replies
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Jeff Cagle
Haha thanks Geoff! I don’t mind being blamed. This wouldn’t have happened if I was there in person. I feel more annoyance at US immigration for denying my visa.
The problem also is that it’s very hard to find decent, reliable employees. Especially in certain cities. Daytona is about middle ground; it’s not the worst I’ve experienced but it’s not the best either.
And yes, technology is amazing. I’d never be able to do any of this without the technology that exists. Everyday we communicate with photos, videos, text etc. He sends me pictures of each progress stage and he sent me the picture as soon as he had finished putting the bathrooms tiles up. That was my ‘Holy crap, what have you done?’ moment.
I definitely do not want to remodel a property remotely ever again though.
- Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes6y
@Nat C. Nat I don't want to sound off, but where are you coming from? Wuhan?
How did you acquire the place? Now I know more about your situation I think it would be prudent to pay the guy.
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Michael King
Hey Michael, no I’m definitely not from Wuhan LOL! Just curious why that would be relevant?
Yes, I plan to pay him the agreed price. He did still put in the required hours and the filing job looks decent quality despite the ugly design elements.
- Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:
@Michael King
Hey Michael, no I’m definitely not from Wuhan LOL! Just curious why that would be relevant?
Yes, I plan to pay him the agreed price. He did still put in the required hours and the filing job looks decent quality despite the ugly design elements.
Sorry Nat I was just thinking about your visa being denied and all this Corona Virus going around...
- Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes6y
@Jim K. I will agree. I’ve never fought my tile guy, but he is weird as heck. He comes and goes several times and jumps around. He is super cheap though. I don’t ever use him if I’m on a tight timeline.
- Property Manager · Riverside, CA · Member since 2020 · 107 posts · 65 votes6y
You may be able to negotiate a discount to redo the tile.
I had one A+ tile person, that was great, and then he expanded, hired people and started doing multiple projects besides ours, and the two workers started tiling from different sides of the house. If you chalk everything out, measure left and right, do lots of calculations, and make the meet line at natural break point, such as a room entrance, it can work out. The two tiles were off center, and met in the middle of the Living Room.
Contractor redid it, but was UNHAPPY, where we supplied new tiles.
Finding good people that are available in a tight market is hard.
And I have seen this where the contractor expands their business, and the business falls apart since they are not supervising everything.The thing to keep in mind, or focus on, is what is your top priority. Is it fighting over $2K, or finishing the place ASAP so you can either put it on the market or rent it. Everyday it's in construction is a day of lost potential income.
- Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nat C.:
Guys, please help me out with your opinion.
I ordered tiles and had them delivered to the property.
I specifically told the contractor in writing, what tiles were to go on the bathroom floor and walls.
Today he sent me pictures of the tiled bathroom. I was shocked when I saw that he has used random tiles, not the ones I had instructed. By random, I mean I didn’t even buy these tiles, so I don’t know where they came from. He just found some tiles laying around the property and put those up. But because there weren’t enough of them, he then used another tile, so there are 2 types of floor tile, which looks atrocious. They are also beige, a colour I think is woeful, whilst the rest of the colour scheme through the house is white and grey.
I’ve asked him to remove and redo it and he’s not happy and won’t redo it. I don’t know how to resolve this situation.
Normally when we are doing tile projects we require a sketch confirming which tiles go where, what sort of pattern, etc. as otherwise things like this can happen. It sounds to me like there may have been some confusion on the part of the contractor regarding the pattern.
We also will take measurements and tell the owner how much tile and grout to order. You stated that there was not enough of a particular tile--whose responsibility was it to order the correct tile you specified be used?
The contractor should have done the following: 1) confirm in writing the pattern to be installed, the type and quantity of the tile 2) confirm enough tile is on site to complete the job before beginning the project 3) the moment there was an issue, they should have stopped the tile installer, not just went ahead with everything.
At this point they can remove the tiles and re-do them although it's unclear who was responsible for them running out of tile so there may be some blame on both sides. As I see it you have two clear options. 1) talk to the contractor and see what you can work out 2) fire them and bring in someone else to correct what was done.
- Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes6y
He doesn’t want to redo it because it’s more than just replacing the tile. He would be replacing the cement board as well. I sold and had flooring installed for many years. If someone sent me a text saying X goes on the floor and Y goes on the walls and I did something different, I would be replacing it regardless. I’m surprised how many here say to just pay up.
- Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes6y
I'm not sure if you ever s swerer, is this a pro? Or a handyman. If it's the handyman getting $15/hr pay up. You rolled the dice and lost. If it's a professional tile and he was given explicit instructions via text which he did not follow, I can't see how he's not offering to eat it.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
@Nat Chan Were the tiles you wanted installed actually delivered? In CA any work done over $500 requires a licensed contractor, not sure what it is in Florida.
I had a job in so cal once where porch was being tiled. I went to check layout and realized how contractor laid out tile left to right would put grout line on edge of metal strip from the house and I could imagine that cracking in the future, I made him take all of it up an redo it correctly. A contractor should have thought about that.
However; it was an expensive house and he was getting paid good money.
You can still check your jobs. We have smart phones with cameras and video, use them.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes6y
@Nat Chan Forgot to ask,
How big of an area was tiled?
What did he charge?
How much was tile?
Did you get bids from other contractors?
Is he licensed? If not, he's not a "contractor", and shouldn't be referred to as such.
- Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Nat Chan
Don’t pay this lady for sure.
- 6yJosh CissellBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Oxford, MS · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 19 votes
@Nat Chan No way would that guy get paid. I don't care if it took him a month. He screwed up. Putting down the wrong tile is one thing. Mixing two different tiles? Unless there is more to the story than what you told us.... His unwillingness to fix his mistake shows just how terrible he is. If you're supplying the materials he is just out some days of labor? I'd never use him again. He'll screw you again.
Cissell Management Co., LLC4.997 Reviews - Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Jim K.
Jim makes a critical point about tech, we use it regularly now for viewings (when applicants are out of province) and for decades landlords/ and tradespeople have been asking for pictures when a problem comes up,... easy enough to snap a pic/ vid when starting a project of the paint can, tile, flooring, door hardware etc and give a go/ no go as the owner.
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Karen Margrave
Hi Karen,
In a single family home, a permit isn’t required when tiling inside in FL.
I definitely utilise smart phones and cameras.
I was discussing with my assistant about using security cameras with the two way speaking function all throughout job sites, allowing me to monitor work and speak through the camera. I’m still trying to devise an exact design for how that will work.
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Josh Cissell
Yeah, I won’t be using him again but just want to get this property over and done with. We are about 98% done now, so I don’t want to cut and change contractors again. I’m just trying to sail the boat out to the ocean, rather than rock the boat at this point.
With the two different floor tiles, the shower floor has one tile and the rest of the bathroom floor has another tile. They’re definitely not complimentary to each other.
- Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes6y
@Nat C. simple, fire him, hire new and move on, KEEP IT SIMPLE, what else is there to do
- 6yGary SiverPro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Orange Park, FL · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 83 votes
@Nat Chan
That’s ridiculous, any competent contractor knows not to put two mismatched tile on the floor. If it looks that bad and he doesn’t want to redo it just put it over the top of the tile. Just use a bonding agent and it will be fine.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
I see both sides. On the one hand, you need to be there to make sure the job runs as it ought to so, the point about everything being our own mistake is valid to me. On the other hand, contractors are expected to perform at at least a certain level of competence and we ought not have to "tie their shoes for them" (lol) as another poster said.
All that is fine and dandy but what now right???
I think everyone has made clear most of the various options. How about beating the crap out of this guy??? I'm joking of course...sort of...
Jim told his tile guy story and I laughed hard because even before I read his post, I was already planning on posting my "tile guy" story - lol - same sort of crap, different state.
It seems around here a decent tile guy is tough to find. Most don't even bother to answer the phone or return messages.
I was doing a tile project myself and decided to sub it out so I could get busy with other stuff on the house - it was a big project. So I finally get a guy to call me back, we chat it up and he seems great. He comes to the house and we chat it up some more and he still seems great. We verbally agree I will pay him 1/2 up front and 1/2 upon completion, something I generally don't do for labor-only jobs, but I was making an exception according to the circumstance. So he is supposed to start in 2 weeks, then calls me and says he can make it in a week and the next thing I know he can be there the day after the next. Hmm...I do not like being rushed and the red flags of why he is all of a sudden so available are going off. So I start scrambling to get this to happen and as part of that, I look the guy up in public records. Turns out he has a bunch of criminal charges, a bunch of them are for theft and other various dishonest types of things. Ok. Then he sends me his contract and it's this boiler-plate sort of thing from the internet, and he didn't even bother to change the particulars so it was inaccurate for my job. Ok. So, I have two options. I can either tell the guy to forget it or, I can take control and see if I can still work it out. I am perfectly aware 99/100 people would have told him to stick it right then and they should. But I'm a different sort of person and could see the formula working. After all, despite this guys issues, it was clear to me he could actually do tile.
So what I do is this. I re-write the guys contract so it reads as it ought to. I change the terms of 1/2 down and 1/2 at completion to paid in full upon completion. I tell the guy to meet me at the house and we will sign and he can get started right then. For reference, this is a 3-day job, 4 tops.
So he gets to the house, I inform him I am not handing him a check and have changed the contract terms. He asks me why. I tell him. Now, keep in mind here, 99/100 people would have had zero to do with this guy and I was giving him a chance. I mean, I'm trusting this yahoo inside my house, not just with the job. I considered my actions to be very honorable and way up and above what any other rational person would have considered to be considerate/human.
So, he tells me he can't do that (surprise surprise). I say no problem, peace. We are in my driveway, he is in the truck, I start walking away and as soon as I get around the corner of the house and out of his sight I hear him scream "Merritt, you're a ****ing prick". O no he did not just do that. No no no no no no. This is where the really nice, polite and reasonable Merritt switches to my alter personality, the one that might rip your heart out and eat it for breakfast if I'm hungry enough.
LOL. I have been eternally grateful that at that moment in time, I did not have my tool belt on with my 28 ounce framing hammer in it. I came bolting back around the corner coming at him and his truck screaming at the top of my lungs "**** you you mother ****er you son of a ***** get the **** off my property right now" ....and so on and so on...he could not slam it in reverse fast enough and peel away while I chased him out of my driveway and down the street a bit.
Meanwhile, the nicest, calmest guy ever is in my house doing work (an electrician). I walked back into the house frazzled, embarrassed. He just looked at me and asked if I was alright. Thank God for nice people. He didn't hold it against me.
Contractors. Some of them take advantage of the fact they have more audacity and physical strength than their clients, and play the bully. They get away with it too much of the time. So, when I joked about beating the crap out the guy, I was only joking in the sense that it is sometimes the best course of action to respond to being an ******* with being an ******* right back. And I do not mean physical violence, that's never ok. I lost my **** that day and that's not ok. I'm not proud of that part of the story.
Anywhos...****ing tile guys.
- Battle Creek, MI · Member since 2019 · 18 posts · 13 votes6y
@J Scott
I am going to disagree here. If the person that is installing the tile is a professional, why should I as an owner have to stand over them every minute to make sure they are doing their job correctly. If I have to hold their hand to do the job I don't want them working the job.
The written, tested, explained directions of which tile to use should be sufficient for a professional.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Michael Delmont:
I am going to disagree here. If the person that is installing the tile is a professional, why should I as an owner have to stand over them every minute to make sure they are doing their job correctly. If I have to hold their hand to do the job I don't want them working the job.The written, tested, explained directions of which tile to use should be sufficient for a professional.
One of two things is the case here:
1. The guy that was hired is NOT a professional -- he's a handyman who charges less than a seasoned professional tile installer, and the OP was trying to save money by not hiring a professional tile guy; or
2. The guy that was hired IS a professional tile installer, but isn't very good at his job. And the OP did a horrible job of performing due diligence on this guy and shouldn't have hired him in the first place.
Either way, the OP messed up.
(Is there a third option that I'm missing?)
I know a LOT of successful business owners, and one thing they all have in common is that they take responsibility for their employees, as well as every other aspect of their business. When THEIR business screws up, the buck stops with them, as the screw most likely could have been avoided had they done things differently.
I also know a lot of people who don't like accepting blame and are always looking to blame others when something bad happens. They tend to be the unsuccessful business owners.
- Investor · Commerce Twp, MI · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 29 votes6y
@Nat Chan if they look bad I would only pay if redone. This should be done with tact though. I have been in this situation quite a few times where the contractor thinks he/she is saving you money by using some random material. What I have done is started with a ‘thank you for trying to save money’.
Then pause so they can feel validated.
Then go on to explain why you chose a specific product and why you have to be a stickler in this one. Let them know that you appreciate the attempt to save money and ask them to reach out first next time as you really would like to entertain these suggestions.
- Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes6y
@Nat Chan - you mentioned you have an assistant checking up on the work to help him get paid. Why isn’t that person sending you photos or video on a daily basis? Add that to your process next time as it would have caught this early if you were also checking it. For large / detailed scopes of work, the proper tiles should be mentioned in the scope. Definitely no random materials should be around. (Like having gallons of the wrong paint color then being upset if it’s used. That’s 100% your fault).
I’d definitely also have benefitted from installing one or more internal WiFi security cameras so I can check on things (is my contractor there?) without going to the job site.
Lastly, go get an opinion from one or more realtors about the current bathroom tile design. Is it worth redoing or is it ok? My friend had mismatched tile in her flips shower and it looked bad but they sold it as it was instead of redoing it.
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Michael King
That is HILARIOUS!!!
No, my visa was denied ages ago.
When you apply for a visa, you have to prove you’re not an intending immigrant. Because I own various properties in the US, I’m very much seen as an intending immigrant and hence the denial.
- 6yNat C.Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votesOP
@Natalie Schanne
Great idea about getting an opinion from others about the bathroom Natalie. This is for a buy and hold rental property so it’s probably not necessary to rip up and redo. It’s only me who is bothered by it and I don’t have to live there.
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