How I got started in note investing

How I got started in note investing

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

Today I want to share when I acquired my first mortgage notes. It was November 2016 when I decided to pull the trigger after six months of research and building an excel model that lets just say I went overboard with. So how much did this cost me to get involved besides an awful lot of time?

I started with four loans. They were in the amounts of $6,184; $3,100, $3,800. $3,418 = $16,502. I figured I would invest in real world experience instead of paying a guru $20,000 to teach me what I could learn online. Throw in costs for setting up entity and other stuff and call it an even $20k.

These loans were not easy to manage but I wanted to spread my risk across four assets. Two of these assets were in bankruptcy, one was a performing loan and the other was a non performing loan. We ended up resolving all and getting paid off on these four assets. 

Fast forward to today where we have managed over 700 assets. It has not been easy, but if it was, then anyone could be doing it. I share this for two reasons:

1. Start with a plan. While you need money you do not need a ton of it. Also make sure you do diversify.

2. I see far too many people rushing to get out ahead. I started when I was 41 in note investing. I did not make any money really the first several years because I reinvested it. Those reinvests did payoff, but be patient. Real estate is a marathon not a sprint. For many you are running full speed into a storm that you are not looking ahead at the clouds and unfortunately for those its not going to end well. 

Patience and discipline, and no you do not need to keep up with the jones'.

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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
2y

@Chris Seveney, If you had paid $20k for a "mentorship" you could have made $100 million by now while working 4 hours per week (The 4 Hour Work Week) while lying around the beach in front of your $10 Million condo and your Rolls Royce with 3 bikini clad 19 year olds at your beck and call.  Sorry you screwed up by taking the harder and less profitable route.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
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  • Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Interesting. It peaks my interest

  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 187 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney I absolutely love this, "I figured I would invest in real world experience instead of paying a guru $20,000 to teach me what I could learn online."! 

    So many people spend thousands for an education that has a very low roi. If they had instead used the money to get started, with personal research and due diligence, they would be lightyears ahead.

    Maybe I should start a YT channel. "Don't pay me, use that money as a downpayment on a nice house in a decent neighborhood! Don't expect to make anything from that house for ~10 years. Repeat. In 10-20 years you will be wealthy!". lol (The theory is that simple. I wish it were that easy to find nice houses in decent neighborhoods that aren't priced sky high.)

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2014 · 101 posts · 16 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney I started similarly. I bought 3 non-performing with 2 other partners. You might remember how they went after I reached out to you. I don't manage 700 but am plugging along. Thanks for what you do.

  • VA · Member since 2023 · 14 posts · 7 votes
    2y

    Do you mean you issued 4 loans (notes)? Do recall what property types you had your loans on? Just interested. Thank you for the encouragement!

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Elizabeth Block:

    Do you mean you issued 4 loans (notes)? Do recall what property types you had your loans on? Just interested. Thank you for the encouragement!


     No I bought them on the secondary market. They were all single family residential loans as that is our primary business.

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  • Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    2y

    hey, this thread peaks my interest. 

    how do i analyze such a deal? where do i buy them from?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Samuel Fish

    Best thing to do is get educated. Can start here and BP and I can share where to get more education

    Once you get that rh easiest place to start is paperstac to buy loans

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  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney, I am also interested in getting started in the note investing business. 

    Could you share where else to get more education?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Anna N.

    Sent you a connection request

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  • Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Anna N.:

    @Chris Seveney, I am also interested in getting started in the note investing business. 

    Could you share where else to get more education?


     Anna, you can also check out Youtube, Podcasts  and there numerous other Social Media platforms that also discuss this topic.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney, If you had paid $20k for a "mentorship" you could have made $100 million by now while working 4 hours per week (The 4 Hour Work Week) while lying around the beach in front of your $10 Million condo and your Rolls Royce with 3 bikini clad 19 year olds at your beck and call.  Sorry you screwed up by taking the harder and less profitable route.

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:

    @Chris Seveney, If you had paid $20k for a "mentorship" you could have made $100 million by now while working 4 hours per week (The 4 Hour Work Week) while lying around the beach in front of your $10 Million condo and your Rolls Royce with 3 bikini clad 19 year olds at your beck and call.  Sorry you screwed up by taking the harder and less profitable route.

    I know I know. I started notes 8 years ago and yep $20k back then would have gotten you training to earn $250k your first year. It was that simple and you could easily compound it. Eventually though times must have gotten tougher as in 2022 it went down to $100k from a well known guru  from ScrewU(niversity) in notes. 

    All of this could have been had with OPM as well... flipping amazing...

    Now I sit in my basement... All alone.... just typing away on BP on what could have been...
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  • Investor · Member since 2019 · 36 posts · 31 votes
    2y

    I wouldn't necessarily call Chris Seveney a "prophet" of the note business.  But, if somebody else did, I sure as hell wouldn't argue!  When I was educating myself, I listened to every podcast on which Mr. Seveney appeared.  Chris, I am grateful for the knowledge you imparted.  Thank you, sir.
    @Chris Seveney

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Edward Condon:

    I wouldn't necessarily call Chris Seveney a "prophet" of the note business.  But, if somebody else did, I sure as hell wouldn't argue!  When I was educating myself, I listened to every podcast on which Mr. Seveney appeared.  Chris, I am grateful for the knowledge you imparted.  Thank you, sir.
    @Chris Seveney


     I am by no means a prophet - just a guy who puts his pants and socks on the same way as everyone else and trying to make a living.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes
    2y

    Hey Chris, glad you stuck with it and progressed nicely. I started a little before you and did pretty well until notes started becoming more expensive and difficult to find, and then I switched to other strategies. But note investing definitely works, if anyone is looking to get into it.

    My best deal was purchased for $13k and generated about $170k. HOWEVER it was a very long saga that took about 7 years to resolve.

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 286 posts · 135 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney

    Thanks for sharing your story.

    Your definitely one of the talking heads I followed and listened to when I was educating myself about notes. Always loved the straight talk, NO BS, and the warnings about the so called “Universities”.

    I sold all of my notes to fund physical RE but will eventually get back to paper.

    If youre ever down here in San Diego, id love to treat you to lunch or dinner.

  • Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Patrick Desjardins:

    Hey Chris, glad you stuck with it and progressed nicely. I started a little before you and did pretty well until notes started becoming more expensive and difficult to find, and then I switched to other strategies. But note investing definitely works, if anyone is looking to get into it.

    My best deal was purchased for $13k and generated about $170k. HOWEVER it was a very long saga that took about 7 years to resolve.


    Sounds similar.  Our CEO started back in 2010 and had a similar deal buying a note for 28k and cashed out 190k but in 3.5 months.  Just before Judgement and a mis-understood property value.  

  • Brittany P.Pro Member
    Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    Today I want to share when I acquired my first mortgage notes. It was November 2016 when I decided to pull the trigger after six months of research and building an excel model that lets just say I went overboard with. So how much did this cost me to get involved besides an awful lot of time?

    I started with four loans. They were in the amounts of $6,184; $3,100, $3,800. $3,418 = $16,502. I figured I would invest in real world experience instead of paying a guru $20,000 to teach me what I could learn online. Throw in costs for setting up entity and other stuff and call it an even $20k.

    These loans were not easy to manage but I wanted to spread my risk across four assets. Two of these assets were in bankruptcy, one was a performing loan and the other was a non performing loan. We ended up resolving all and getting paid off on these four assets. 

    Fast forward to today where we have managed over 700 assets. It has not been easy, but if it was, then anyone could be doing it. I share this for two reasons:

    1. Start with a plan. While you need money you do not need a ton of it. Also make sure you do diversify.

    2. I see far too many people rushing to get out ahead. I started when I was 41 in note investing. I did not make any money really the first several years because I reinvested it. Those reinvests did payoff, but be patient. Real estate is a marathon not a sprint. For many you are running full speed into a storm that you are not looking ahead at the clouds and unfortunately for those its not going to end well. 

    Patience and discipline, and no you do not need to keep up with the jones'.


    Chris, could you expand on what you mean by "diversify"? Did you mean within different types of RE investments (e.g., long-term and short-term rentals, notes, BRRRs, etc.), or did you mean diversify types of notes (e.g., performing, non-performing, CFD's, short-term, long-term, etc.)? Or both?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Brittany P.

    I diversified in notes. I bought several vs one larger one. Spread the risk out

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  • Brittany P.Pro Member
    Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes
    2y

    Gotcha—thanks!

  • Member since 2024 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    2y

    That's an inspiring journey, especially starting with just four loans and growing to managing over 700 assets. Your emphasis on starting with a solid plan and diversifying risk is key advice. It's also important to highlight the value of patience and reinvesting early earnings for long-term success. Real estate truly is a marathon, and your story reinforces the importance of persistence and discipline.

  • Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney can you share the excel model that you started with? Also did you grow only through cash flow or did you take investor capital to reach where you are today?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alex Booth:

    @Chris Seveney can you share the excel model that you started with? Also did you grow only through cash flow or did you take investor capital to reach where you are today?


     I started with my own funds as proof of concept, then started to do some joint venture deals and take other peoples money, only after I used my own and my mothers. So if I lost mine or my mothers then I would not only be a bad son but never want to take outside capital. Regarding the excel model, do you mean to manage assets or to acquire them? The models people to use to acquire are like KFC's secret ingredients, most do not share.

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  • Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 15 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Alex Booth:

    @Chris Seveney can you share the excel model that you started with? Also did you grow only through cash flow or did you take investor capital to reach where you are today?


     I started with my own funds as proof of concept, then started to do some joint venture deals and take other peoples money, only after I used my own and my mothers. So if I lost mine or my mothers then I would not only be a bad son but never want to take outside capital. Regarding the excel model, do you mean to manage assets or to acquire them? The models people to use to acquire are like KFC's secret ingredients, most do not share.


     You had mentioned that you spent 6 months researching before November 2016 with some of that time creating an excel model. I assumed that was a financial model projecting cash flows over time given a certain reinvestment rate. That was the model I was asking about. I created my own but was looking to see how I could improve it. Here is a link to mine below. It's a copy so please feel free to edit.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wo5FHJxlIlnnygy012Fq...

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alex Booth:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Alex Booth:

    @Chris Seveney can you share the excel model that you started with? Also did you grow only through cash flow or did you take investor capital to reach where you are today?


     I started with my own funds as proof of concept, then started to do some joint venture deals and take other peoples money, only after I used my own and my mothers. So if I lost mine or my mothers then I would not only be a bad son but never want to take outside capital. Regarding the excel model, do you mean to manage assets or to acquire them? The models people to use to acquire are like KFC's secret ingredients, most do not share.


     You had mentioned that you spent 6 months researching before November 2016 with some of that time creating an excel model. I assumed that was a financial model projecting cash flows over time given a certain reinvestment rate. That was the model I was asking about. I created my own but was looking to see how I could improve it. Here is a link to mine below. It's a copy so please feel free to edit.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wo5FHJxlIlnnygy012Fq...


     It can be challenging to understand someones model. For a performing loan, it appears you are on the right track as its just the cashflows in vs. out. Where most people make mistakes is they do not account for servicing costs etc. as part of their cash flows. The reason mine was challenging is we deal with non performing loans, which have a significant number of variables from foreclosure timelines per state, foreclosure costs including recoverable and non recoverable, issues with if property has equity or no equity, what-ifs the borrower files BK etc. which also needs to be modeled.  That is why it took a significant amount of time as many will just be like ok I will foreclose, but if the borrower who is 12 months behind files BK on that 3% loan you will be shocked at what your return truly would be.

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