Where Do You Find Good Notes To Buy?
Daniel WilliamsPro Member
Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votesWhere Do You Find Good Notes To Buy?
Most Popular Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesQuote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
The note business is in an economic situation right now where the risk adjusted return is below most other investments. So you can either get the same or better return (risk adjusted) investing in a mortgage fund, pool or REIT, or try to find that "needle in a haystack" outlier.
Paying full loan balance for a note is not where the real ROI is; it's purchasing a note at significant discount to remaining loan balance and "working" the note. We deal only in the commercial space with a minimum loan size of $500 - $700k and max $5 million, and are able to close on maybe one a year. The rest of our $50 million AUM is invested in notes we originate - where we accept an ROI that's increasingly making me wonder if it's the best use of our funds.
what you’re up against is professionals in the business that tend to “stretch” because they feel they need to keep their business going even if the ROI is too low. So assets get bid up beyond a “reasonable” price; that’s why you can’t easily find the deals you’re looking for.
54 Replies
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
7e investments53 Reviews- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes10mo
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
- 10moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
just a thought but have you looked at HML new origination's with a top flight broker that has daily deal flow.. ?? rates seem to be 10 to 15% and you can pick and choose the scenarios you like .. only exception is they are NOT owner occ notes. - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
The notes you reference are institutionalized or maybe scratch and dent loans which are selling at around a 7.5% yield +/-. Ones on paperstac are typically reperforming or seller financed loans as that is what most of the secondary market trades.
As Jay mentioned, might be better doing some or buying some hard money loans or DSCR loans but note those are not owner occupied. We have a bunch of loans that were bridge loans at around 9% - 10% but are only 12 months in length.
7e investments53 Reviews - 10moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
The notes you reference are institutionalized or maybe scratch and dent loans which are selling at around a 7.5% yield +/-. Ones on paperstac are typically reperforming or seller financed loans as that is what most of the secondary market trades.
As Jay mentioned, might be better doing some or buying some hard money loans or DSCR loans but note those are not owner occupied. We have a bunch of loans that were bridge loans at around 9% - 10% but are only 12 months in length.
Morning Chris, I sometimes wonder if for the larger note investor if they can hook up with a really good broker that is writing short term loans daily.. that this takes a ton of work out of the process and instead of waiting months to find that perfect note.. your money is working constantly so no drag.. ???? - Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes10moHi Jay,
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
The notes you reference are institutionalized or maybe scratch and dent loans which are selling at around a 7.5% yield +/-. Ones on paperstac are typically reperforming or seller financed loans as that is what most of the secondary market trades.
As Jay mentioned, might be better doing some or buying some hard money loans or DSCR loans but note those are not owner occupied. We have a bunch of loans that were bridge loans at around 9% - 10% but are only 12 months in length.
Morning Chris, I sometimes wonder if for the larger note investor if they can hook up with a really good broker that is writing short term loans daily.. that this takes a ton of work out of the process and instead of waiting months to find that perfect note.. your money is working constantly so no drag.. ????
That’s very interesting. Hadn’t even thought about hard money or DSCR loans. Wouldn’t even know how to find these types of brokers, but would not rule out this type of investment.Chris - This makes sense. That’s exactly what I’m looking for; seller financed SF notes. I’m starting to realize there’s not really one or two main “hubs” of note sellers, but many “one-off” sellers that only networking can lead you to.
Thanks for the ideas and help guys! Best of luck with your businesses. Hated to miss the Paper Trail Note Conference, but appreciate the informative podcasts.
Daniel Williams
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes10mo
@Jay Hinrichs - we do that with several people who we originate and sell to them after closing. Typically these loans are $100,000 or greater. Many of the people we see who want to get into notes do not have 100 K
saves them from finding the deal underwriting it wasting the time chasing bad deals , etc.,7e investments53 Reviews - 10moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Jay,Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
What type of note are you trying to buy?
I will add that I think the biggest disconnect with newer note investors is they want "good notes" for cheap prices. Similar to real estate, you do not find a newly renovated home in great area for a steep discount, its discounted because there is work or something that needs to occur to enhance its value.
Hi Chris,
Appreciate the response. I understand that well performing notes will not come at a steep discount. What I typically see from tapes via email or Paperstac are notes that don’t check most of the boxes I’m looking for, such as seasoning, decent property (not falling apart), interest rate, ITV, consistent payment history, non-judicial state, etc. If it’s a solid note, I’m happy to pay what’s fair.
Ideally, I’m looking for a single-family 1st position performing note with all the above criteria. Just wasn’t sure of the best avenue(s) to find them and if there are places I’m not looking but could or should be.
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
The notes you reference are institutionalized or maybe scratch and dent loans which are selling at around a 7.5% yield +/-. Ones on paperstac are typically reperforming or seller financed loans as that is what most of the secondary market trades.
As Jay mentioned, might be better doing some or buying some hard money loans or DSCR loans but note those are not owner occupied. We have a bunch of loans that were bridge loans at around 9% - 10% but are only 12 months in length.
Morning Chris, I sometimes wonder if for the larger note investor if they can hook up with a really good broker that is writing short term loans daily.. that this takes a ton of work out of the process and instead of waiting months to find that perfect note.. your money is working constantly so no drag.. ????
That’s very interesting. Hadn’t even thought about hard money or DSCR loans. Wouldn’t even know how to find these types of brokers, but would not rule out this type of investment.Chris - This makes sense. That’s exactly what I’m looking for; seller financed SF notes. I’m starting to realize there’s not really one or two main “hubs” of note sellers, but many “one-off” sellers that only networking can lead you to.
Thanks for the ideas and help guys! Best of luck with your businesses. Hated to miss the Paper Trail Note Conference, but appreciate the informative podcasts.
Daniel Williams
Land sales are a vast majority of seller carry back.. also U can do like the big note buyers do and follow public records then send we buy notes direct mail.. I get a lot of those when I sell and carry back a mortgage
- Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2022 · 211 posts · 28 votes10mo
Hi Daniel,
I sent you a PM.
- Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes10mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Well sell smaller performing deals from time to time, but we tend to hold the NPLs and larger performing loans. What are you seeking specifically?
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes10moThanks Doug, I’ve PM’d you.
Quote from @Doug Smith:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Well sell smaller performing deals from time to time, but we tend to hold the NPLs and larger performing loans. What are you seeking specifically?
- Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes10mo
In a million years, I wouldn’t make or buy an owner-occupied/consumer-purpose loan. With the laws and regulations that protect homeowners, these can be landmines compared to investment-type business purpose loans. The way to make money from the loans you’re looking for, @Daniel Williams, is to buy them deeply discounted and work to get them to perform. I do mean work. To those I know who do this, e.g. the Eddie Speed crowd and a few others, this is often a full-time job. There is nothing wrong with it, if you want that lifestyle.
Alternatively, there are many brokers who make and arrange business-purpose loans to real estate investors such as house flippers, real estate investors, and to other businesses. These are generally bridge-type loans with terms between 6 months to a few years at rates around 11% plus a few points, as @Jay Hinrichs mentioned. You’ll fund the loan at origination, and the broker will usually keep the points and perhaps charge for servicing.
Here, you get to vet the broker and the borrower as well as the property, so you know what you’re getting into. Most of these will perform to maturity and require relatively little work on your part. The returns for performing loans such as these are less than those from non-performing loans but so are the risks and time spent.
Performing loan brokers hang in different arenas than those involved in non-performing loans. Not Paperstac or Noteschool but organizations such as AAPL, NPLA, CMA, Fortra, and Geraci. Though we originate our own loans, which I highly recommend, we’re also on the mailing list of a handful of brokers and we receive half a dozen offers a day of business-purpose loans, in our area, that we could fund if we wanted.
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes10moThis is great info. Thanks Jeff.
Quote from @Jeff S.:
In a million years, I wouldn’t make or buy an owner-occupied/consumer-purpose loan. With the laws and regulations that protect homeowners, these can be landmines compared to investment-type business purpose loans. The way to make money from the loans you’re looking for, @Daniel Williams, is to buy them deeply discounted and work to get them to perform. I do mean work. To those I know who do this, e.g. the Eddie Speed crowd and a few others, this is often a full-time job. There is nothing wrong with it, if you want that lifestyle.
Alternatively, there are many brokers who make and arrange business-purpose loans to real estate investors such as house flippers, real estate investors, and to other businesses. These are generally bridge-type loans with terms between 6 months to a few years at rates around 11% plus a few points, as @Jay Hinrichs mentioned. You’ll fund the loan at origination, and the broker will usually keep the points and perhaps charge for servicing.
Here, you get to vet the broker and the borrower as well as the property, so you know what you’re getting into. Most of these will perform to maturity and require relatively little work on your part. The returns for performing loans such as these are less than those from non-performing loans but so are the risks and time spent.
Performing loan brokers hang in different arenas than those involved in non-performing loans. Not Paperstac or Noteschool but organizations such as AAPL, NPLA, CMA, Fortra, and Geraci. Though we originate our own loans, which I highly recommend, we’re also on the mailing list of a handful of brokers and we receive half a dozen offers a day of business-purpose loans, in our area, that we could fund if we wanted.
- 10moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
The note business is in an economic situation right now where the risk adjusted return is below most other investments. So you can either get the same or better return (risk adjusted) investing in a mortgage fund, pool or REIT, or try to find that "needle in a haystack" outlier.
Paying full loan balance for a note is not where the real ROI is; it's purchasing a note at significant discount to remaining loan balance and "working" the note. We deal only in the commercial space with a minimum loan size of $500 - $700k and max $5 million, and are able to close on maybe one a year. The rest of our $50 million AUM is invested in notes we originate - where we accept an ROI that's increasingly making me wonder if it's the best use of our funds.
what you’re up against is professionals in the business that tend to “stretch” because they feel they need to keep their business going even if the ROI is too low. So assets get bid up beyond a “reasonable” price; that’s why you can’t easily find the deals you’re looking for.- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes10moThank you for the insight, Don. This seems to echo several of the other industry vets.
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
The note business is in an economic situation right now where the risk adjusted return is below most other investments. So you can either get the same or better return (risk adjusted) investing in a mortgage fund, pool or REIT, or try to find that "needle in a haystack" outlier.
Paying full loan balance for a note is not where the real ROI is; it's purchasing a note at significant discount to remaining loan balance and "working" the note. We deal only in the commercial space with a minimum loan size of $500 - $700k and max $5 million, and are able to close on maybe one a year. The rest of our $50 million AUM is invested in notes we originate - where we accept an ROI that's increasingly making me wonder if it's the best use of our funds.
what you’re up against is professionals in the business that tend to “stretch” because they feel they need to keep their business going even if the ROI is too low. So assets get bid up beyond a “reasonable” price; that’s why you can’t easily find the deals you’re looking for.
- Investor · Baltimore County, MD · Member since 2014 · 466 posts · 439 votes9mo
@Daniel Williams we have a list of sellers but the reality is that developing and maintaining this list takes a lot of work and time. Lots of relationship building. This is something we help newer investors build out for themselves as well.
Dave Pollio at SN Servicing is one of the more active brokers in this space. Also, we have a free resource on our website called: "AI-Powered Note Investing: Finding Deals in 2025 & Beyond" that you may fund helpful.
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moHi Jamie,
Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
@Daniel Williams we have a list of sellers but the reality is that developing and maintaining this list takes a lot of work and time. Lots of relationship building. This is something we help newer investors build out for themselves as well.
Dave Pollio at SN Servicing is one of the more active brokers in this space. Also, we have a free resource on our website called: "AI-Powered Note Investing: Finding Deals in 2025 & Beyond" that you may fund helpful.
Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of SN but don’t think I’ve signed their NDA yet. Will have to check them out.
What is your website?
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
- Investor · Baltimore County, MD · Member since 2014 · 466 posts · 439 votes9mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Jamie,Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
@Daniel Williams we have a list of sellers but the reality is that developing and maintaining this list takes a lot of work and time. Lots of relationship building. This is something we help newer investors build out for themselves as well.
Dave Pollio at SN Servicing is one of the more active brokers in this space. Also, we have a free resource on our website called: "AI-Powered Note Investing: Finding Deals in 2025 & Beyond" that you may fund helpful.
Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of SN but don’t think I’ve signed their NDA yet. Will have to check them out.
What is your website?
Thanks,
Daniel Williams
@Daniel Williams I don't want to get my wrist slapped for self-promotion. Labrador Lending.
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moMy bad, didn’t think about that. Thank you!
Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Jamie,Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
@Daniel Williams we have a list of sellers but the reality is that developing and maintaining this list takes a lot of work and time. Lots of relationship building. This is something we help newer investors build out for themselves as well.
Dave Pollio at SN Servicing is one of the more active brokers in this space. Also, we have a free resource on our website called: "AI-Powered Note Investing: Finding Deals in 2025 & Beyond" that you may fund helpful.
Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of SN but don’t think I’ve signed their NDA yet. Will have to check them out.
What is your website?
Thanks,
Daniel Williams @Daniel Williams I don't want to get my wrist slapped for self-promotion. Labrador Lending.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
I posted at some point in this forum a list of 25+ places to go to buy notes. The reality is many of them are larger whole loan traders that sell pools, and yes you can cherry pick. For example mission capital has a $20M pool bidding today but also the lowest priced asset in the pool will go for around $125k+ (unless you want non performing vacant land). So again, depends on what you are looking for.
For starters paperstac and SN are two places where I got started and was very successful through those portals.
7e investments53 Reviews- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moThis is great info, thanks Chris!
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
I posted at some point in this forum a list of 25+ places to go to buy notes. The reality is many of them are larger whole loan traders that sell pools, and yes you can cherry pick. For example mission capital has a $20M pool bidding today but also the lowest priced asset in the pool will go for around $125k+ (unless you want non performing vacant land). So again, depends on what you are looking for.
For starters paperstac and SN are two places where I got started and was very successful through those portals.
- Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes9moIf you don't mind, what is your goal with note investing? I was pretty successful with it from 2010-2020 but when deals started to dry up it was more inconvenient than worth it unless you made it a full time thing like Chris, raised money etc.
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
It's just difficult finding a reliable source to buy from as an individual investor so if it's just to get a couple extra % on your investments it's likely not worth it. Just my 2 cents.
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moAppreciate the input. Not that I’ve done a ton of looking, but what scoping I’ve done, has seemed like a needle in a hay stack just to find performing 1st positions that match my criteria. And that’s before any due diligence.
Quote from @Patrick Desjardins:
If you don't mind, what is your goal with note investing? I was pretty successful with it from 2010-2020 but when deals started to dry up it was more inconvenient than worth it unless you made it a full time thing like Chris, raised money etc.Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
It's just difficult finding a reliable source to buy from as an individual investor so if it's just to get a couple extra % on your investments it's likely not worth it. Just my 2 cents.
- 9moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
this a great help to many getting started at least to finding companies that they can call to see if they have any notes. Although the OP criteria of Performing 1st notes I have to think is pretty tough. At least at a discount if they are good notes.. note re performing notes. Maybe the OP should think about just originating his own 1st position note thats not a tough task at all. - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
7e investments53 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moThis is great, thank you sir!
Quote from @Jamie Bateman:
- 9moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesFor many investors originating a note is very different than purchasing an existing note. There’s a lot more due diligence necessary with the documentation of an existing note which intimidates investors who can originate a note and just turn the document creation over to their attorney. In addition I found these common misconceptions by investors about purchasing existing notes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
1. Title insurance is very costly or unobtainable
2. Only the original lender named in the deed of trust or mortgage can foreclose
3. Your stuck with the current loan servicer
4. If the note is transacted (purchase/sale) the borrower can mediate/arbitrate terms
5. Seller asking prices can’t be negotiated - Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes9mo
Quote from @Don Konipol:
For many investors originating a note is very different than purchasing an existing note. There’s a lot more due diligence necessary with the documentation of an existing note which intimidates investors who can originate a note and just turn the document creation over to their attorney. In addition I found these common misconceptions by investors about purchasing existing notesQuote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
1. Title insurance is very costly or unobtainable
2. Only the original lender named in the deed of trust or mortgage can foreclose
3. Your stuck with the current loan servicer
4. If the note is transacted (purchase/sale) the borrower can mediate/arbitrate terms
5. Seller asking prices can’t be negotiatedVery true, we talk about these items often as many people believe these items. Lets connect offline if possible?
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
Quote from @Don Konipol:
For many investors originating a note is very different than purchasing an existing note. There’s a lot more due diligence necessary with the documentation of an existing note which intimidates investors who can originate a note and just turn the document creation over to their attorney. In addition I found these common misconceptions by investors about purchasing existing notesQuote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
1. Title insurance is very costly or unobtainable
2. Only the original lender named in the deed of trust or mortgage can foreclose
3. Your stuck with the current loan servicer
4. If the note is transacted (purchase/sale) the borrower can mediate/arbitrate terms
5. Seller asking prices can’t be negotiatedI agree 100%, one caveat is understanding how to underwrite a borrower, giving someone a loan with no exit and not knowing how to underwrite an origination to mitigate risk is key. When I see people giving 21 year olds $1.5M portfolio loans at 90% purchase and 100% construction and not have third party inspection draws blows my mind - and they take the $, do not pay contractors, put a tenant in, collect rent and not pay the mortgage - to me I also put blame the lender. Sticking your hand in the lion cage situations people also have to own up to it
7e investments53 Reviews - 9moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesReal estate is unique in the business world in that there’s a lot of “selling” of the concept that you can succeed with limited knowledge, no experience and no capital, and plenty of people who believe it. Further, any knowledge needed can be obtained by purchase of a “mentorship” program.
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
For many investors originating a note is very different than purchasing an existing note. There’s a lot more due diligence necessary with the documentation of an existing note which intimidates investors who can originate a note and just turn the document creation over to their attorney. In addition I found these common misconceptions by investors about purchasing existing notesQuote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
1. Title insurance is very costly or unobtainable
2. Only the original lender named in the deed of trust or mortgage can foreclose
3. Your stuck with the current loan servicer
4. If the note is transacted (purchase/sale) the borrower can mediate/arbitrate terms
5. Seller asking prices can’t be negotiatedI agree 100%, one caveat is understanding how to underwrite a borrower, giving someone a loan with no exit and not knowing how to underwrite an origination to mitigate risk is key. When I see people giving 21 year olds $1.5M portfolio loans at 90% purchase and 100% construction and not have third party inspection draws blows my mind - and they take the $, do not pay contractors, put a tenant in, collect rent and not pay the mortgage - to me I also put blame the lender. Sticking your hand in the lion cage situations people also have to own up to it
20 plus years ago, I had an investor in my mortgage funds that told me he no longer needed to invest in my fund, he would originate and fund loans himself and earn what had been our fee (points). About a year later he calls to ask for a recommendation for an attorney. He explained that he had placed all his investment capital in one loan, and he was afraid of being wiped out. He had made a second position lien on a high rise condo, and the loan amount was well in excess of the corresponding equity. Apparently his only criteria was projected ROI, no need to evaluate RISK. As the saying goes, he has just enough knowledge to be dangerous. - Member since 2023 · 69 posts · 42 votes9mo
Hello Jamie: This is helpful. Thank you for posting this. I have worked with Secured Investment Corp. for a couple of years now. This company has made it very easy for me to find Note deals using funds from a SDIRA, earning returns of 10%. I do not see this company mentioned very much in these discussions?
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
Quote from @Tony Valle:
I have not heard there name in years. have not seen them at conferences or in forums or buying or selling loans. I did not even realize they were still around.
7e investments53 Reviews - 9moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Real estate is unique in the business world in that there’s a lot of “selling” of the concept that you can succeed with limited knowledge, no experience and no capital, and plenty of people who believe it. Further, any knowledge needed can be obtained by purchase of a “mentorship” program.Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
For many investors originating a note is very different than purchasing an existing note. There’s a lot more due diligence necessary with the documentation of an existing note which intimidates investors who can originate a note and just turn the document creation over to their attorney. In addition I found these common misconceptions by investors about purchasing existing notesQuote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jay Hinrichs - we have $1M+ in performing notes at 9% or higher (loans are $100k-$300k) and institutionally underwritten that we post and people always have an excuse of why they can't buy it. Many don't want 9% but they will do a 95% seller financed deal at 10% - has me scratching my head
1. Title insurance is very costly or unobtainable
2. Only the original lender named in the deed of trust or mortgage can foreclose
3. Your stuck with the current loan servicer
4. If the note is transacted (purchase/sale) the borrower can mediate/arbitrate terms
5. Seller asking prices can’t be negotiatedI agree 100%, one caveat is understanding how to underwrite a borrower, giving someone a loan with no exit and not knowing how to underwrite an origination to mitigate risk is key. When I see people giving 21 year olds $1.5M portfolio loans at 90% purchase and 100% construction and not have third party inspection draws blows my mind - and they take the $, do not pay contractors, put a tenant in, collect rent and not pay the mortgage - to me I also put blame the lender. Sticking your hand in the lion cage situations people also have to own up to it
20 plus years ago, I had an investor in my mortgage funds that told me he no longer needed to invest in my fund, he would originate and fund loans himself and earn what had been our fee (points). About a year later he calls to ask for a recommendation for an attorney. He explained that he had placed all his investment capital in one loan, and he was afraid of being wiped out. He had made a second position lien on a high rise condo, and the loan amount was well in excess of the corresponding equity. Apparently his only criteria was projected ROI, no need to evaluate RISK. As the saying goes, he has just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
kind of a funny but true account. I was at the airport getting ready to fly to one of my back east markets.. When a lady recognized my name when I checked into the one of the airline private rooms. Then went on to tell me about this loan she made in second position and what does she do she does not have enough money to pay off the first that is foreclosing.. Seconds are priced higher for a reason and for me I would not even consider one unless return was 30% apr or higher and I know i could cover the first if needed. - Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes9mo
Quote from @Tony Valle:
Hello Jamie: This is helpful. Thank you for posting this. I have worked with Secured Investment Corp. for a couple of years now. This company has made it very easy for me to find Note deals using funds from a SDIRA, earning returns of 10%. I do not see this company mentioned very much in these discussions?
We work with Secured Investments as they are a part of our Private bi-weekly Calls. They attend all the Note Conferences just not under the same name at times. We often work with the lead guy in the servicing department there. If you are looking for passive income there is another company you can look into. Ignite. Let me know if you have any other questions.
- Member since 2023 · 69 posts · 42 votes9mo
Thanks for your feedback, Chris. This company is one of the providers recommended by Equity Trust Company, who remains the custodian of my SDIRA. I should say that I have funded several first position notes backed by single family homes through this company and have been satisfied with the returns, the loan servicing piece, and the communication from the company. I will have some funds to redeploy in the Spring of 2026, so I wanted to do my due diligence in learning more and discovering options. I see that you are very well connected in the "Notes Space," and I am puzzled as to why they are not referred to hardly anywhere on this forum or others? I do appreciate all the generous feedback and contributions you make to answer questions and encourage those like myself who are searching for information.
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Tony Valle:
I have not heard there name in years. have not seen them at conferences or in forums or buying or selling loans. I did not even realize they were still around.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
Great list Jamie. Paperstac has a good amount of assets as does JKP. Between the two of them there are over 200 assets there. RAMS had 1.7B in loans for sale last week. Mission Capital had over $20M out for sale. SN also put out a few million dollars worth.
There is opportunity out there, what I see is far too many wanting the perfect deal which I have alluded too in the past.
7e investments53 Reviews - Lender · Nationwide · Member since 2018 · 571 posts · 310 votes9mo
I have tapes of around $90MM UPB for sale, but they are non-performing. There are a bunch of small seller finance land/mobile home notes in Texas, probably around a million dollars a month that pop up somewhere or another. An assistant handles those and could send you a tape if you are interested.
- Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes9mo
Quote from @Shafi Noss:
I have tapes of around $90MM UPB for sale, but they are non-performing. There are a bunch of small seller finance land/mobile home notes in Texas, probably around a million dollars a month that pop up somewhere or another. An assistant handles those and could send you a tape if you are interested.
Shafi, did you originate or you just brokering them?
Are the mobile homes attached to the ground and affixation/Surrendered the Title. - Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moThanks Shafi. For now I’m looking for single family performing, but will keep you in mind if I change my strategy.
Quote from @Shafi Noss:
I have tapes of around $90MM UPB for sale, but they are non-performing. There are a bunch of small seller finance land/mobile home notes in Texas, probably around a million dollars a month that pop up somewhere or another. An assistant handles those and could send you a tape if you are interested.
- Member since 2023 · 69 posts · 42 votes9mo
Thankk you Lauren. I appreciate the heads up on Ignite. I will check it out now.
- Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes9mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Have you tried contacting your local community bank?
- Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 4 votes9moHi Ivan,
Quote from @Ivan Terrero:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Have you tried contacting your local community bank?
I have not contacted any banks or financial institutions. Have you or anyone else had any luck doing this. Guess I’m a little hesitant here although all they can do is say no.
-Daniel - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Ivan,Quote from @Ivan Terrero:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Have you tried contacting your local community bank?
I have not contacted any banks or financial institutions. Have you or anyone else had any luck doing this. Guess I’m a little hesitant here although all they can do is say no.
-DanielNo and its a waste of time unless you have millions to invest. your best bet is paperstac or Dave Pollio at SN. Those are the two places to get started. In note investing, unless you are originating the paper yourself, more than likely it will have some hair on it which is why it is selling at a discount from institutional paper.
7e investments53 Reviews - 9moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Ivan,Quote from @Ivan Terrero:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Have you tried contacting your local community bank?
I have not contacted any banks or financial institutions. Have you or anyone else had any luck doing this. Guess I’m a little hesitant here although all they can do is say no.
-DanielNo and its a waste of time unless you have millions to invest. your best bet is paperstac or Dave Pollio at SN. Those are the two places to get started. In note investing, unless you are originating the paper yourself, more than likely it will have some hair on it which is why it is selling at a discount from institutional paper.
“In note investing, unless you are originating the paper yourself, more than likely it will have some hair on it which is why it is selling at a discount from institutional paper.”
EXACTLY! Class A property owned by credit borrowers don’t pay 12% for heir money, more like 5-6%. Likewise, “good” paper even discounted yields 6 - 8%. The big money is made with a lot of WORK - in the analysis, the servicing, the negotiating, and the risk.
- Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes9mo
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
Hi Ivan,Quote from @Ivan Terrero:
Quote from @Daniel Williams:
I’ve been learning about mortgage notes for the last several months but find it difficult to find where to purchase any.
Paperstac is okay, and I’ve subscribed to a few note selling companies/people and will receive a tape of some being sold, but these rarely have any good ones.
Curious if anyone has had experience with any reliable and consistent sellers or brokers of notes.
Thanks,
Daniel
Have you tried contacting your local community bank?
I have not contacted any banks or financial institutions. Have you or anyone else had any luck doing this. Guess I’m a little hesitant here although all they can do is say no.
-DanielNo and its a waste of time unless you have millions to invest. your best bet is paperstac or Dave Pollio at SN. Those are the two places to get started. In note investing, unless you are originating the paper yourself, more than likely it will have some hair on it which is why it is selling at a discount from institutional paper.
I have experienced success with my local bank.
- Investor · IN · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 24 votes9mo
Does anyone have much luck with peer to peer notes? Or do you mainly stick to institutional lenders? I had my first experience as a borrower offering a first position lien with a fellow investor and it was such an easy experience compared to the standard hard money loans that all the brokers sell.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9mo
Quote from @Camden Lowrance:
Does anyone have much luck with peer to peer notes? Or do you mainly stick to institutional lenders? I had my first experience as a borrower offering a first position lien with a fellow investor and it was such an easy experience compared to the standard hard money loans that all the brokers sell.
check out paperstac for that as well as some facebook groups. there are many ways to skin the cat in this business.
7e investments53 Reviews
- 8moDani RitcheyPro MemberMember since 2026 · 1 post · 0 votes
I'm looking for performing notes too! If anyone's selling feel free to connect. Thanks
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes8mo
@Dani Ritchey what loan balance are you looking for, what type of return are you targeting? Do you have specific states in mind?
7e investments53 Reviews - Investor · Member since 2024 · 181 posts · 63 votes8mo
Quote from @Dani Ritchey:
I'm looking for performing notes too! If anyone's selling feel free to connect. Thanks
We have about 75 performing notes available. Reach out if interested.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes8mo
One of the issues today is 10 years ago you could find hundreds of notes between $10,000 - $50,000 during the cfd craze. Due to inflation etc the average notes are now well into six figures so barrier to entry has gotten much harder
7e investments53 Reviews
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.