Foreclosure process/costs after purchasing non performing note?
Most Popular Reply
Dion DePaoliPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votesA couple ideas to add here for OP. The biggest cost in NPL's is time. Often times newbies attempt to discover the true cost of dispositioning a NPL and the common jargon they use is "how much does it cost to foreclose?". What that is asking is how much in legal fees can I expect to pay?
As stated above fees will vary by state and firm accordingly. What tends to be overlooked is the additional expenses involved in attempting to recover on the investment which will include past due and ongoing taxes, property insurance, property preservation and maintenance if the property is abandoned and servicing fees among some others.
Each of those cost categories have a periodic factor to them for the most part. Most of those costs will accumulate each month and many need to actually be capitalized on an ongoing basis. Lender placed insurance generally can be paid on a monthly basis, although depending on your vendor they may attempt to have you capitalize a longer policy and rebate unused premiums. Property maintenance such as mowing a lawn to avoid local fines can cost money every week or two. Past due taxes generally only need to be capitalized if and when they jeopardize your priority in title and ongoing taxes owed can be net from sale of REO if it comes to that. Servicing fees for full service servicing will run anywhere from $75 to $100 a month.
So every month the asset is not dispositioned you have expenses that can be a couple hundred dollars. Above the cost to foreclose. This doesn't include additional capital costs such as winterizing properties (Winter is coming), securing vacant property, cleaning up debris or REO repair. Additional legal actions such as eviction and bankruptcy defense can also increase costs.
The point is, there is more to it than simply buying a defaulted loan and foreclosing. So when I personally see responses to newbies regarding costs that don't get closer to tens of thousands of dollars, I cringe. The basis of the discount which is agreed to for sale is based on both the amount of additional capitalization required to disposition the loan along with the estimated net proceeds from disposition. The discount applied is more influenced by time than most other ideas. We can see this idea in comparing discounts in states which provide quicker resolutions such as Texas which typically carries a lesser discount versus states like New York which carry deeper discounts.
Working with non-performing loans should not be a race to zero in regards to properly capitalizing the asset to recover the investment. Unfortunately, all too often it seems to be sold and understood in that manner by newbies.
To clean up another couple ideas, just because a lien has first position doesn't necessarily mean a DIL is possible or prudent. Any junior liens would cloud title and taking a DIL would mean loss of priority and power of foreclosure to clear those junior interests. Additionally, for the sake of the newbie mentality, A DIL is something a borrower must give a mortgagee not vice versa. A borrower who is forced or coerced into surrendering title may have claims against the mortgagee for predatory and deceptive practices.
Additionally, the common street level sales pitch is that investing in loans is less of a headache than that of real property. Well, that is not entirely true. Distressed loan investing, especially defaulted loans, can and often do carry a comparable workload if not sometimes more depending on the barriers to disposition. Don't buy NPL's if you want passive income - defaulted loans are far from passive investing, very far.
Lastly, due diligence should not be approached as a limited set of things to inquire about. Collection and recovery from a loan can come from the collateral or the borrower or both. Due diligence should involve the borrower, paperwork and collateral in full. Anything less is gambling not investing.
27 Replies
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 36 votes9y
Hello @Samuel S. , Depends if it's a judicial or nonjudicial foreclosure. Fast foreclosure states will be around $2000-3000 to foreclose including servicing fees. Judicial states will be at least $3500 for legal and servicing, but expect more around $5000+ to foreclose. And you're looking at much much more if there are any title or legal issues. That is why due diligence is the key.
My suggestion is find a lawyer where you're looking to buy the note using http://www.legalleague100.com/members and just call them up and ask.
- Rental Property Investor · Metro Detroit · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 17 votes9y
Thanks @Roma Korenyuk! That definitely clears things up...
As far as due diligence is concerned, if the note was in first position, would the diligence only need to be done on the borrower for the most part? Since any other lien associated with the title would not trump the first position lien?
- Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 904 votes9y
As for renting...you cannot legally rent until you own the property or have been elected as an agent of the owner. Lender and owner are not the same.
As for 1st position lien, there are other liens which may be more senior - tax, mechanics, etc.
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 56 posts · 36 votes9y
@Samuel S. , I would not rely on what the seller is telling you, ever! Trust, but verify. I highly recommend that you use www.protitleusa.com to get your lien position and taxes checked as part of your due diligence. You need a professional service to check which position loan is in and what liens are ahead or behind the loan.
As due diligence on non-performing side of note business you need to check taxes, title, and property condition/value. The borrower is not a big part of due diligence on nonperforming side. But, you do want to know if there are bankruptcies or law suits or divorce in process with the borrower. That can be done on www.pacer.org
- Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes9y
Its actually pacer.gov, register for an account and dig your way into the case locator for that state. If you have part of the SSN it helps, otherwise enter name and you can find if any past or current actions have been filed.
I agree, ProTitle has the best O&E reports that will show if any foreclosure or Lis Pendence has been filed, as well as taxes & such. Then confirm taxes with the county tax collector. Good luck!
- Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
@Samuel S. You have some good but very basic questions. I would recommend that you look through some of the other threads for new note investors on where to find education. Notes can be very profitable if you do your homework and know what to look for to avoid problems.
- Rental Property Investor · Metro Detroit · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 17 votes9y
Thanks everyone for your advice!! I know that I've only scratched the surface here, but this niche is definitely worth pursuing due to the fact that it IS real estate investing, but with less headaches (tenants, toilets) and easier scalability.
It seems that for a first timer, starting off with purchasing performing notes would be the way to go? Especially those that can be purchased at a discount?
- SW Florida/Maryland · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 36 votes9y
Are you in first position? If you are in first position and there are no other liens on the property you could potentially do a deed in lieu. As someone said earlier, the price of a foreclosure is going to differ vastly depending on if you are in a state that does judicial or non judicial foreclosure.
A foreclosure law firm would probably charge you more than they would a bank. Because of the volumes of foreclosures that these firms do for the banks, the banks typically get a discount. The foreclosure law firms charge a flat fee for the sale then charge hourly for any additional litigation. The rates are set by Freddie and Fannie. A foreclosure law firm would almost certainly charge you by the hour for the entire process. One thing to consider is that if there is equity in the property you may be able to count legal fees and costs associated with the foreclosure against the foreclosure auction price. But that would only matter if there was equity in the property.
- 9yDion DePaoliPro MemberReal Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
A couple ideas to add here for OP. The biggest cost in NPL's is time. Often times newbies attempt to discover the true cost of dispositioning a NPL and the common jargon they use is "how much does it cost to foreclose?". What that is asking is how much in legal fees can I expect to pay?
As stated above fees will vary by state and firm accordingly. What tends to be overlooked is the additional expenses involved in attempting to recover on the investment which will include past due and ongoing taxes, property insurance, property preservation and maintenance if the property is abandoned and servicing fees among some others.
Each of those cost categories have a periodic factor to them for the most part. Most of those costs will accumulate each month and many need to actually be capitalized on an ongoing basis. Lender placed insurance generally can be paid on a monthly basis, although depending on your vendor they may attempt to have you capitalize a longer policy and rebate unused premiums. Property maintenance such as mowing a lawn to avoid local fines can cost money every week or two. Past due taxes generally only need to be capitalized if and when they jeopardize your priority in title and ongoing taxes owed can be net from sale of REO if it comes to that. Servicing fees for full service servicing will run anywhere from $75 to $100 a month.
So every month the asset is not dispositioned you have expenses that can be a couple hundred dollars. Above the cost to foreclose. This doesn't include additional capital costs such as winterizing properties (Winter is coming), securing vacant property, cleaning up debris or REO repair. Additional legal actions such as eviction and bankruptcy defense can also increase costs.
The point is, there is more to it than simply buying a defaulted loan and foreclosing. So when I personally see responses to newbies regarding costs that don't get closer to tens of thousands of dollars, I cringe. The basis of the discount which is agreed to for sale is based on both the amount of additional capitalization required to disposition the loan along with the estimated net proceeds from disposition. The discount applied is more influenced by time than most other ideas. We can see this idea in comparing discounts in states which provide quicker resolutions such as Texas which typically carries a lesser discount versus states like New York which carry deeper discounts.
Working with non-performing loans should not be a race to zero in regards to properly capitalizing the asset to recover the investment. Unfortunately, all too often it seems to be sold and understood in that manner by newbies.
To clean up another couple ideas, just because a lien has first position doesn't necessarily mean a DIL is possible or prudent. Any junior liens would cloud title and taking a DIL would mean loss of priority and power of foreclosure to clear those junior interests. Additionally, for the sake of the newbie mentality, A DIL is something a borrower must give a mortgagee not vice versa. A borrower who is forced or coerced into surrendering title may have claims against the mortgagee for predatory and deceptive practices.
Additionally, the common street level sales pitch is that investing in loans is less of a headache than that of real property. Well, that is not entirely true. Distressed loan investing, especially defaulted loans, can and often do carry a comparable workload if not sometimes more depending on the barriers to disposition. Don't buy NPL's if you want passive income - defaulted loans are far from passive investing, very far.
Lastly, due diligence should not be approached as a limited set of things to inquire about. Collection and recovery from a loan can come from the collateral or the borrower or both. Due diligence should involve the borrower, paperwork and collateral in full. Anything less is gambling not investing. - Specialist · Manhattan, NY · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 192 votes9y
Dion is 100% correct....you often hear that NPL's are a great way to avoid "Tenants, Toilets and Trash". Nothing could be further from the truth.
The issues are just as challenging and as every bit as frequent as other RE investments:
1. Who maintains the asset when the homowner has walked away?
2. Who manages the tenants (or squatters) when the borrower has abandoned the place?
3. Who fixes the place up after the asset is broken into and all the copper is stripped? "They didn't take the mechanicals.....because they were taken last time it was broken into"
4. Who pays the city fines for leaving garbage in the yard or having grass higher than 8 inches?
....the list is endless
NPL's are time consuming and difficult. They are much more difficult to manage than rentals (in my experience).
However, if you are detail orientated, highly systematic and follow-up on every single issue every single time - they are highly scalable and can be very profitable.
But the golden rule is:
You absolutely have to know what you are doing - PERIOD
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Paul Birkett in my mind this is a very advanced strategy for those with lots of capital lots of experience and those guru's selling courses to those who have little to no real estate experince are really just setting many people up for heart ache. I just cringe when I see these people pop on BP " Hey I want to learn to buy NPN" granted folks have to start somewhere but NPN is a poor starting point.
As you state.. so many of these homes will be totally stripped .. of course some are probably lay downs but.. in my mind unless you have MULTI millions to do this with and can scale and have a very compentant group.. its not a great starter type investment
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes9yJay Hinrichs and Paul Birkett Completely agree with your posts. I would view note investing as the advanced degree of real estate investing. While I have recently gotten into notes, we better half works in the financial sector and I work in the real estate development world so I would say we have a great foundation. Notes are not easy to learn and until you go through the process it's not something you can teach. It is scary when on BP I am reading about people who just want to jump in as well as those who want to get into investing and have no experience and no money but want to try and get hard money to buy a house. It seems like there are a lot of people who are thinking they can make easy money in this business but I view this as one of the toughest businesses around as dealing with contractors no matter which area of real estate you are in is one of the toughest things to manage. Especially in today's environment where contractors like investors are popping up and there skills and quality can be very weak. Everyone has to start somewhere, so not trying to influence people not to do this, but spending a month reading and watching videos from experts will not make you successful. Like anything it takes a lot of time and effort
7e investments53 Reviews - Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes9yThis is turning into a really great thread to expose the fraud & BS that shysters like Scott Carson & Eddie Speed sugar cost that investing in defaulted notes is such a great alternative to going out and buying a house at 70% of ARV less repairs. The money is made in teaching about notes, not investing in them. They charge $20-$40,000 to learn about notes and really don't tell you about all the negatives covered here. Also include on top of all this is eviction costs when the scum bag won't leave after you foreclose. So these shysters are cranking out note investors like sausages that over pay for defaulted notes up to 65-70% of FMV, resulting in a shortage of them, paying too much for crap with little to no success of working them out, and if you have to foreclose on these properties, you won't make any money and could lose. The reasons these notes are for sale is because the seller sees NO way of making a profit on them. We have made little to no money on most of the defaulted notes we have bought with our JV partners, and you really need to pay as little as possible, foreclose, and rehab them to really make any money. At least this is what we have found in the last few years, and buyer beware Non performing notes have so many working parts, much more than just buying a property and rehabbing it.
- Note Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 602 posts · 357 votes9y
@Christopher Winkler let's get something straight really fast. Before you start calling anyone a shyster, let's get some things clear very fast. I do not commit fraud or BS as you refer to in the above post. And I may not always agree with Eddie Speed's teaching but I can also say that Eddie does not commit fraud. I am a note investor first and foremost and have closed on over 1,000 transactions and helped hundreds of other investors close on deals as well, just like Eddie Speed has.
For those of you that don't know Chris Winkler, he has been a student of both Eddie Speed and my training.
Do I need to post the numerous emails from you "thanking me" for my coaching and guidance in helping you purchase notes for your own portfolio? Do I need to refresh your mind that we once featured you on one of our Note Closer's Video that helped you raise funds? Did I not work with you while you were going through a troubled time to break up my coaching into payments for you? Do I need to post the "fraudulent" email that you sent to a hedge fund manager bashing a fellow member of yours in my note mastermind group and that I sent a $500+ case of wine to that asset manager saving the relationship? Do I need to refresh your mind that I warned you three times about your unethical actions to other investors before I finally had to kick you out of my note mastermind group? Do I need to post the pictures from my Note Mastermind Groups that you attended and bought assets at well below the 70% range? Do I need to post my response to your Facebook post looking for contact info on a fund that you needed help with just a few weeks ago.
Do I teach on note investing. Yes. Have I charged thousands of dollars for my coaching and note mastermind group. Yes. I am proud of the successful students who have closed deals and still continue to close deal, before and after Chris Winkler was a part of my group. Do I need to post the harassing emails you send my new students who go on to close numerous deals or people in my mastermind?
Let's just get straight to the point. Talking **** about people is a great way to get blacklisted by others in this business.
Chris is upset that he bought assets and went against what was taught to him and wants to blame someone when he should just blame himself.
- Investor · Newark, DE · Member since 2015 · 248 posts · 178 votes9y
I have closed four deals from Scott Carson since May. I have also found JV partners using methods Scott has educated people on, (he was the first person I let know) I have been through his training - free, and paid. I am part of his mastermind group and the information and contacts made from this group are worth the "investment". The training can only go so far, you have to apply it to see its value. Cheaper than a college education and I will be financially set in a few years because of the education and the group Scott Carson has provided. As we speak I am working toward a goal of funds to bring to the next mastermind meeting! Hopefully I meet that goal. Scott Carson has helped me tremendously and I look forward to a profitable 2017!!!
- Note Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 602 posts · 357 votes9y
Thanks @Jay Raught You are rocking it!
- Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes9y
While I'm sure Chris isn't perfect, I have to agree with a lot of what he's saying. There aren't enough note sellers catering to "retail investors" for the massive number of wannabe note investors Scott & Eddie churn out.
It's turned into a running joke but my email account is littered with Mailchimp spam mail from Scott disciples.
The retail prices are now high enough that it's often a better opportunity buying a foreclosure / off market property than buying a 1st mortgage. With all the unknowns involved with notes, some of what's offered is much closer to gambling than investing.
As Chris mentioned, people don't take into account the price of the note, opportunity cost of the foreclosure (6-12 months+), legal fees, cost of eviction, cost of fixing it up, taxes etc. Buying these assets at 60-70 cents on the dollar is absurd.
And with low value assets (in ****** neighborhoods) the only way to make money is to get them at rock bottom prices.
Thankfully 2nd mortgages and "marginal" assets like underwater notes will always have room for profit built in, but the note landscape isn't that great especially for 1st mortgages. I'm upset that I started buying notes in 2013 rather than in 2010-2011, which like rentals is when the homerun deals were being sold.
Just imo.
- Note Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 602 posts · 357 votes9y
@Patrick Desjardins No offense but don't you focus just on 2nd's? How many first's have you bought? How many 2nd's have you bought? How much in private capital have you raised for deals (outside of your family)?
If investors are paying 60% of FMV or greater on NPN's then they are idiots as that sure isn't what I teach. What you have going on now are the fix & flip buyers, or REO buyers are running out of product and are jumping into the note business and buying assets up like its an REO! Too many AMC TV watchers who can't find a "deal" and think that notes are the same as the ugly foreclosure down the street. ARV x 70% doesn't make sense in the note game!
The note market for 1st liens is actually phenomenal. We still have 6-9 million 1st liens underwater out there and an additional 1-3 million HAMP loans that are starting to reset. Add in the $211 Billion in commercial loans that are starting to reset, and there is a ton of inventory. Plus, there is a huge amount of CFD's that are great investments as well once you do your due diligence on them.
If I had a dollar for every 2nd lien investor calling me, begging to send them 2nd's, I'd be richer. Add in the number of 2nd lien investors who are moving to the "dark side" of 1st's and you be amazed. 2nd's are currently way overpriced due to the lack of inventory and increased demand. Pure fact is that there is only a fraction of 2nd's out there when compared to 1st lien NPN's. I walked through the last Papersource in April and had at least 12 second's investors ask me how to find more deals.
I find it funny that people who complain about pricing, don't take the time to reach out or develop other sources of product. I also find it downright funny that people make fun of others who are actually marketing to raise private money when others are too scared to open their mouth. What it comes down to is that my "disciples" can actually raise money from their warm market and they can use those same skills to reach out to banks and asset managers on a regular basis to find other deals. They aren't scared to market for deals or capital instead of sitting on bigger pockets trashing other investors. Maybe you could learn something from the people taking action and actually close more deals because you could raise more capital and buy bigger deals/pools instead of sitting around fighting over scraps from the sources everyone knows about.
Unfortunately, only around 10% of people actually do anything on a continued basis. Note buying is a business and with any type of business you have to market and adjust to the market and develop new sources. Either you adapt or you go broke sitting around complaining.
- Ocean Pines, Maryland (MD) · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 8 votes9y
If you speak, think and share negative information in a hurtful way it only serves to bring the same back to the messenger. Note education and the folks who sell it have no control over who will take action on what they teach. The value in what they are selling may be vastly different from one person to the next. The generalizations made in this thread and using absolutes to talk negatively about NPNs delivers no value to anyone. Risk is mitigated in any investment with an unwavering commitment to self education and extensive research into what you are investing in. I only know of Eddie Speed, I have never met him so I can't comment. However Scott Carson I know and the man has a big heart and cares about the note industry. Without him there would be so many less people who know about our industry. Is it a bad thing there are more note investors? I think not, but if you are of the competitive mindset maybe you do. I take the creative mindset and say this is a good thing. We now have more people to partner with, drive assets for us, do JV deals with and be a mentor to. I'll end with this from my man KR "You get what you put in and people get what they deserve". Be that good or bad, the choice is yours.
- Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes9y
Originally posted by @Scott Carson
If investors are paying 60% of FMV or greater on NPN's then they are idiots as that sure isn't what I teach.
The only reason I make fun of your students who spam me with emails is:
1) they're totally unsollicited and I know you've lent our your list to some of them, and2) a lot of them send such generic, copy-pasted emails that it's very easy spotting those who have done deals and those who haven't.
Not sure why you're taking it personal as unlike Chris, I didn't attack you personally. While I'm personally not going to pay 10-20k+ for seminars, you provide some great free content and I've referred many people to your videos. It's just a fact that you churn out a lot of students, and that prices have gone up a lot in the past few years. No reason to argue about it.
- Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes9y
I am sure that individual Investors who actually buy notes have seen funds like Granite & Spurs to name two, want low to mid $0.60's for 1st Lien NPNs with FMV over $60-70k, and I know of 3 funds that were selling 2nd Lien NPNs with paying 1st & full equity up to $0.65 this year as well.
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 173 posts · 128 votes9y
@Christopher Winkler, you are completely out of line calling @Scott Carson names as you have done! While there may be shysters in the real estate education business, Scott Carson is not one of them! You and I have talked privately, and you never once mentioned anything of substance that Scott had done to mislead, BS, or shyster you. I have spoken with five more of his Mastermind students, and every one of them are making money in note investing, believe Scott's training and Mastermind is a worthwhile investment, and as far as I can tell, all will be continuing as a part of the group. Furthermore, when I was first considering Scott's training, I did extensive research, both on this forum and elsewhere, and really found no complaints. That is extraordinary, given the number of students he has trained since 2008. So, Chris, in this instance you are a lone voice crying out against many with an opposite view.
As for my personal experience with Scott and his training, when I first got interested in Note investing back in June, I sent Scott an email with some questions. HE CALLED ME and we had a 30 minute conversation, and I had never spent a dime with him. How many real estate educators, coaches, gurus do that? Since that time I have attended his Note Camp, his Virtual Note Buying for Dummies course, and been on a number of his free Monday webinars. After having now spent probably 60-80 hours in listening to Scott, I have never once heard him claim note investing was easy, took no effort, or was a get-rich-quick plan! To the contrary, he repeatedly tells his students that nothing will happen unless they get out and do something!!! He also spends a great deal of time on the importance of due diligence, how to perform it, what to look out for, and how to price your offers. If people are out there paying 70% for NPN's they are either not students of Scott, or aren't following his teaching. He offers tons of content, help, advice, support, he will get on the phone with you, but he can't do it for you. Just like every other variation of real estate investing, any other business start up, some will succeed and some will fail. Most of those who fail either had no plan, a bad plan, or failed to execute the plan. It sounds from your exchange that you fall into the third category.
Am I a part of Scott's Mastermind Group? No, I am not, but there is a high probability I will be at some point. Although it has taken me a while, I this week closed on my very first note. It would not have happened without Scott and the great training he has offered at a very reasonable cost. I believe I will build a viable, profitable business in note investing. Thank you Scott!
Lastly, Scott brings into his training programs a large number of successful, experienced investors, fund managers, and servicers who are some of the top in the industry. Some of those who are active on this forum include @Dave Van Horn, @Paul Birkett, @Fuquan Bilal, Troy Fullwood, Donna Bauer and many more. Do you think any of them would risk their reputations by being a part of something lead by the type of person you claim him to be. I don't think so!!!
- Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 215 posts · 77 votes9y
@Christopher Winkler can you taken courses from Scott or Eddie? I see others have already commented on this and I wanted to chime in, in defense of Eddie. I would highly recommend you make comments based on fact and firsthand experience. To make the statement that the training does not cover the negatives mentioned here is simply untrue and an ignorant statement. Eddie speaks to all of the downsides presented in this forum, and anyone who takes the resources he presents and learns the business is set up for success. There will always be investors who rush into deals, don't perform their due diligence and make mistakes, however Eddie's program is loaded with resources to learn the business and become a successful note investor. I am a student of his, learned the business with my own capital and his expertise, and now am a managing partner of a fund that invests in notes.
- Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes9y
Yes Kevin, I have taken overpriced courses from both and all they do is sugar coat it, and offer crappy deals for hight dollars to ignorant investors.
And a follow up, i never bought anything at the joke of a mastermind Carson has, 1st off, any one who kicks you out of their mastermind is only in it for the money, which I refuse to pay $1,000 a month. He regularly kicks out people from his mastermind that piss him off or do not pay; I know dozens of them. My first "mastermind" all tapes were pulled and no one got nothing, 12/14. 12/15, I made the mistake of going again to buy assets. I ended up drawing straw 35 out of 38 investors, so by the time i got to bid, I got third tier crap, and ended up with 2 crappy assets, after rejecting overpriced garbage.
Carson demanded I send in money WITHOUT providing a PSA (Purchase Sales Agreement), then refused to supply a blank AOM (Assignment of Mortgage) or Allonge for the 2 crappy notes I did end up winning the bid on. His drawing straws concept means unless you get the low numbers, you get left over crap. My investor and I were both using IRA money, so by not providing a PSA, or an AOM or Allonge, the IRA custodian refused to fund any of these deals. So I am the bad guy????
To pool money like that w/o any kind of agreement borders on securities fraud. I hear the 12/16 "mastermind" had over 80 investors and the ones that did get something over paid, and will most likely lose money. Some mastermind..
Buyer beware. We have hit peak note and the only people making money in notes now are the guru's who teach people that investing in notes is so lucrative... Notes are too expensive now and if you overpay, you will make little to no money and lose money...
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.