Please read my post before answering willy nilly, but I was wondering why is everyone here so against paying for real estate educational information? I will preface to say that there are quite a few hucksters selling irrelevant or even wrong information to those willing to hand over their credit card. I myself have paid for plenty of that, but for the sake of this post lets disregard them, just as we would disregard all of the slum landlords or fraudulent real estate investors out there. To start, it seems when anyone asks about a seminar or person promoting one, the default answer is "you can find everything you need to know by reading it here." I will say this is probably the best site on the internet today for this type of information, hands down. But everything you need to know, not remotely possible. The second thing, is that you should learn everything for free. Why shouldn't people get paid for providing useful information? The reason all of us are here is because we are looking to make money in this business. Then why wouldn't we want others to get paid, if they could help us make money? Bigger Pockets itself has paid memberships(which I gladly pay every month), not to mention ads. They need to keep the lights on and deserve to make something for doing it. I will say there are quite a few people here that do take time to post useful information and are not generally looking for anything in return. Some do it as a form of networking and are looking for something out of it. A minority have already made something and are just looking to give back, with no need of return at all. Still I don't fathom either renting a conference room and taking 3 days of their time to share all that they know for free. I am not pushing any guru, nor do I have a seminar to sell. I just would like to know why capitalistic entrepreneurs, such as ourselves, think educational information to advance our business and put money in our pocket, must only be free. Any thoughts?

I too have followed this with great interest. My first observation is that the level of professionalism in this discussion is generally very high. This is a divisive topic on BP yet, for the most part, both sides were discussed with little rhetoric and without demeaning others. Civility. Online. How novel?! Like @Ned Carey I have spent a significant amount of money on seminars, courses and mentors. I consider every single penny well-spent. My biggest regret is that I didn't seek out education sooner. The costs I incurred trying to do it on my own exceeded what I paid to others. When I say this, I include time, missed opportunities and other opportunity costs in that calculation. In 2009, my house-flipping business hit the wall. My lending sources dried up and I was stuck. After some research, I found a coach/guru to teach be lease-options, subject-to, etc. (Ironically, he was a BP contributor at the time). His system was kind of generic, but it was enough to get me going and he was there when I had questions. I locked up my first deal in about a month and have done dozens since. Could I have found all of the same info on BP? Probably. But the notion that doing so is FREE is absurd. Time is valuable. I had a family and was working a FT job. Those few hours I had to spend each week were precious and I wanted to spend them DOING not LEARNING. Real estate investing is hard. Anyone who says differently is either lying or hasn't done a deal. Having someone to teach you, answer questions, or provide info that saves you from making mistakes is not foolish, in fact, it is a good business decision. You can certainly do it on you own, but I'm not convinced it is "cheaper." The caveat is that you need to be in business. If you don't take action, then the time you spent on BP and the money you paid for the seminars is absolutely wasted.

I have been reading this thread with great interest as I see great value in this discussion. As a sponsor of two REI clubs with a “no sales” policy, I am often asked if I could recommend any seminars or Guru’s that might provide them with an accelerated learning curve. After I tell them about biggerpockets, I usually tell them to talk to other investors, that are actually doing deals, and ask the same question. I have talked to many wantabe investors that talk the talk, but have not done a deal yet. Until an investor does a deal based on knowledge gained by some program or seminar, they are merely justifying their expenditure. Another thing I tell newbes is to find someone that is doing what you want to do and to find a way to be of assistance to them. Don’t expect a busy investor to stop what they are doing and mentor you. Ask what you can do for them. I agree that most of the participants in most of the seminars out there, will never do anything. They will spend their 5, 10, 20, even 50k and spend the rest of their lives trying to pay it off. The less than 1% that has a strong enough “why” and continues to get educated will be the ones to succeed. Listening to the BP podcasts, the resounding answer to the last question, about why some succeed and others do not, is persistence. I am a product of a guru, that puts on expensive seminars, upsells, and brings in other to try to get you to the back of the room. I have also learned a lot from him and have become good friends with many of the people that traveled in his circle. I am successful, but nowhere near where I want to be. I feel that I am part of that 1% that persisted and did not disappear over the years. I guess what I am trying to say is, spending 50k does not guarantee success, nor does spending hours on BP. I am all for learning from someone else’s mistakes and triumphs. Everyone needs a mentor to speed up the process. That mentor could be BP, a guru, books in the library, or a personal coach. As @Joe Fairless mentioned they need to be ready to learn, and I truly believe that they must have a strong “why”. Why am I spending hours and hours on real estate when I would rather be spending time: with my kids, with my spouse, skiing, watching football, ………………. Real estate is not a get rich quick process, but you can gain wealth over time.

@Matt Buckels - my approach is similar to yours. There are some seminars I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole but others that I have paid to attend and it was worth it. I went to a Rich Dad, Poor Dad 3-day event (I have NO affiliation) and thought it was worth the $300 or so I paid (it's been a long time since I went so don't remember the exact price). I didn't do the crazy expensive up-sell for more specific courses. But then I recommended the 3-day seminar to a couple friends and they said they didn't like it. They didn't have properties and said what they learned was the same stuff they've read in books, etc. Here's my overall thought on it, it depends on where you are as an investor and what the seminar or mentor is offering. For example, I took the 3-day seminar on real estate investing when I needed a good overview of the industry and how to find other ways to invest and make money. I walked in feeling pretty good about myself because I had one investment property at the time. Then, the first thing they said is you won't achieve big-time wealth by buying single family homes. They said I needed to do multi-family or mobile home trailer parks. That changed my life and I immediately went out and learned apt investing. So, looking back on that $300 seminar, it was worth its weight in gold. For the record, I personally now believe you can achieve big-time wealth in most real estate approaches including, of course, single family homes. I've had two paid mentors at very specific times in my real estate career. My first was after I had a couple homes and was looking to take it to the next level. I learned what I needed to learn for 6 months then we went our separate ways. Well worth it. Then I continued to practice what I was taught and when I wanted to get into something new (i.e. buying apts and syndicating deals) I decided I needed a new mentor who could teach me. It's been the best educational investment of my life. But, again, only because I was ready for it and it filled my knowledge gap.

This is a great thread and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, just passionate responses about personal belief. I still credit Carlton Sheets for teaching me the ins and outs about real estate back when I purchased his program. He was one of the original gurus...they just called 'em something different back in the day and sold things in a different way. I go to a lot of events that people in this thread would say are guru events. I have seen it all at these events from the good all the way to the really bad. And after having spent a lot of time sometimes as a participant, sometimes as a speaker and sometimes just as an observer, it all boils down to a few things for me. 1. You can get a lot of education and know-how for free. it is everywhere around us and more attainable than at any point in history and tomorrow it will be EVEN MORE attainable. 2. The people who succeed when they purchase products or programs or coaching are going to succeed anyway. What they are paying for ultimately is a shortening of the learning curve. 3. What galls most who are down on the gurus and events and everything else is that some people do not know how to say no and too often the gurus or people selling don't turn them away. It is a free-will society and with free-will some people will spend...freely. That is hard for some observers to take. It just does not sit right, but it happens everyday in everyday situations like car buying, insurance buying, grocery buying, clothes buying, etc..... If people are willing to pay for it, it will be offered and they will be asked if they would like some more. Does not make it right, it is just reality. Lastly, I do believe in coaching and I personally use coaches. I use one for when I work out at the gym. I use one for discussing financial and estate planning topics. I use one for nutrition and over-all health. I gladly people who are smarting than me to help me make good decisions and hold me accountable. They can charge me as many dollars as they like...it is up to me to say no if I decide it is not worth it. SOME, certainly not all, but some of the companies and individuals that I know who would be classified as gurus in this thread are doing nothing more than the same that the gym trainer, nutrition and financial advisers are doing.

@Jackie Lange " It still amazes me that people on forums trust someone just because they have more posts than anyone else." People don't trust someone solely based on the number of posts one has, they trust them becuase they have consistently given good advice, and become trustworthy. When someone gives bad advice, whether new or experienced, they are held accountable. However; when at a seminar, conference, etc. there's nobody there to hold the speaker accountable, and what they say is left to stand., therefore; hungry new investors can be easily deceived. As I mentioned before, I have no problem with someone that is an expert in a specific area holding a seminar, etc. to teach others, however; there's no one size fits all when it comes to real estate investing, rehabs, etc. Every area of the country is different.

@Wendell De Guzman that's all fine, but "systems" do not make you money, being able to encounter any type of situation, any type of property, in any location in your market and being able to devise your own "system" to solve problems, bring properties to a higher and best use, to fill and satisfy a need, is what makes you money. Not all RE provides an opportunity to make money off of it immediately or even in the near future, being able to identify properties that can makes you money. While you may follow a "system" and you can make money when you get use to that "system" but I can assure you that you are leaving more money on the table than you're making by walking past all the other opportunities that don't fit in that "system". :) A good investor can design a deal, they solve problems, not just property issues but social issues, financial issues, tax issues, regulatory issues and legal issues. Too many folks try to get into RE thinking they are walking into a store and picking up a box of RE strategies. Just go buy it, take it home, open it up, read the instructions then plug it in and tomorrow someone will hand you money. They buy a product to use, like buying a hammer that will make them a craftsman. It's pitiful, just pitiful to hear newbies, especially young people trying to start out to make a living in this world, much less getting wealthy, and referring to guru crap or some technique or system as an education. I've never met a wealthy man who only used a shovel to make money. Even a prospector knows the lay of the land and what to look for and carries other tools in his bag. The reason J. Scott is successful is because he has an education, he understands the basics of RE, he knows the types of deeds and interests that are conveyed, he can value a property, he understands his market and provides a product that fills the needs in demand. He knows the basics very well and applies those fundamentals in what he does. He complies with laws I'm sure and he can deal with people. He can solve problems that arise or knows how to get them solved. I've said it a hundred times, learn the basics of real estate, the flow of a transaction, from putting a for sale sign up to getting your check at closing. Every detail, every function, how other support people provide what they do to make that happen. Know your local customs and the laws that apply to you and your property in buying, selling or holding rentals. Understand what Realtors can and can not do. Learning this stuff in a RE school qualifies as an education. Then you can go to all the seminars, boot camps, buy tapes and whatever the RE pushers have for that day. Difference is, you'll likely avoid the scammers and dumb twits because you know the basics, what can and can't be done and how things are suppose to be done and you can then say.....Ha, that's a bunch of junk or you can say.....that sounds worthwhile, that's a valid strategy. Drug dealers on the corner only sell to those willing to buy their junk who have expectations without really knowing what they are buying. :)

Why is everyone against paying for a seminar?

Kevin Brown

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 38 votes

12y

I have never been to a seminar, and that's mostly because I try to focus very closely on what I do specifically in my business. If there was a seminar abut marketing direct mail to specific neighborhoods under $200k, Id probably attend and pay for it. I could very well be wrong, but I feel seminars cast a wide net, and as much as learning more about REI cant ever be a bad thing, I don't feel Id get enough out of a the average seminar to make it worthwhile

3 Reply

Brian LevredgePro Member

Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes

12y

The problem is that often times those seminars are a sales platform to get you to buy into something much more expensive in order to get information that is being purposefully withheld. I have no issue with people trying to make money by selling info to others, but at the same time the expectation exists that by paying for it, that info better be pretty good. Often times it isn't.

I say this as someone who has been to some of those very seminars. In hind sight, the info provided was nothing that was really new or ground breaking. Caveat emptor!

10 Reply

Account Closed

Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes

12y

What wrong with most seminars the speaker talks a good game but if say can you get me by the hand and show me in real life what you are saying will work the speaker will be looking for a back door to exit.

My 2cents,

Joe Gore

2 Reply

Dev HornPro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

I understand what you're saying. I think our concern is that we meet a LOT of people that have invested in courses & seminars, but they never do anything, and it just seems like a huge waste. But I was also recently talking to a guy that praised the guru he went to and said he would not be in REI today without that education. So there are exceptions.

I also think you're right about forums like Bigger Pockets - they can help you answer many questions, but they are not here to provide a structured educational curriculum. For some people, a high-quality education & coaching program is the secret to their REI success.

2 Reply

Matt B.

OP

Investor · Vincennes, IN · Member since 2013 · 223 posts · 108 votes

12y

I agree with the answer that some are definitely not worth it and stated so at the beginning of my post, but why does everyone think it needs to be free, even if it is genuinely useful information?

1 Reply

Brian LevredgePro Member

Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes

12y

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying it needs to be free. But the fact is that most seminars are repackaged info that can be found on the internet for free, or in books, which cost substantially less than many of the seminars. I think the bigger concern is not so much that people charge for seminars-it's their time and expense, they should be compensated-but more how much they are charging for than info considering the quality.

I think this is also greatly compounded by the fact that many people are often looking for that magic bullet that is going to lead them down the path to riches. More often than not, they don't want to put in the time or work to do what it takes and instead want to have someone else tell them. When they pay someone else 1k (or whatever the amount happens to be) for that, and then fail to do anything else, they look to assign the blame to the person who made them 1k lighter.

5 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

I agree. :)

I have no issue at all with paying for good information, problem is, most that is paid for isn't that good.

I've had my brain picked for decades for nothing and I think I was very well paid for advice at times in the past. I certainly can't fault anyone being paid to teach or advise, so long as they are qualified to give such advice or teach a subject.

The problem is, IMO, there are no set standards for qualification. Anyone with enough of an ego can declare themselves an expert or get a few others to refer to them as experts.

The old adage of those who can't do teach is alive and well in RE.

As to BP, I'm not sure there could be very much, if anything, that could be explained in a seminar that can't be explained on BP. If it hasn't been addressed, it probably hasn't been asked. You'd have to ask the question in a seminar as well. So, I don't think it's that information is so unique in a seminar or class but that communicating ideas is much easier I can cover more material in a class than typing my tail off in forums.

I'll say too that's it's really too bad that I as well as others have to spend so much time addressing bad information planted by the gurus or others here rather than being able to venture off into more detailed subject matter. In a seminar or class, I can control that environment and stay on topic.

I spent thousands on my degrees, the only money I ever spent on RE classes was for my license and were due to some diddly class that had to be selected as continued education having a broker/agent license, otherwise I never spent a dime on RE educational materials. I certainly paid attorneys to learn things.

:)

9 Reply

John Rooster

Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 409 posts · 105 votes

12y

I would have no problem paying for a seminar if there was valuable and accurate information presented. But there isn't. I have been to too many $20-$199 seminars where what little I learned turned out to be inaccurate upon further discovery, and the seminars were primarily marathon sales pitches. I would not even go to a seminar if it were free.

2 Reply

Joel OwensBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

12y

The presenter is not doing it for their health. They have an expectation of a return somewhere. Everyone does something for a payoff whether that be monetary or just helping someone out and feeling good inside or a combo.

If I am closing deals I am not going to be banking on getting 100 bucks from 100 people to attend a seminar and then have them buy a bigger course etc. It does take money to rent those spaces and material costs so they are not really making much off of it. It's just really a game of over selling people to buy generic info that might not apply at all to their area or only partly. I don't waste time with such things. I meet investors one on one for lunch or dinner etc. to discuss the market and what is working and not etc.

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2 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Matt B.:

I agree with the answer that some are definitely not worth it and stated so at the beginning of my post, but why does everyone think it needs to be free, even if it is genuinely useful information?

I don't think it needs to be free. There is a big difference in value between a day seminar on tax strategies and entities by an RE attorney for $150, and someone offering a seminar with upsell for $600. The attorney is selling the info advertised for the price advertised, he has no book to sell, or if he does it's included in the price of the course. The seminar educator is usually selling motivation with tidbits. The tidbits can be interesting. I'll sit through anybody's free seminar that ends with a sales pitch for materials or mentoring or whatever. But I'm not going to pay to be sold to.

You'll hear endlessly that the cost of a $3500 weekend or a $6K mentoring program will be recovered on the first deal. Many RE educators are first and foremost marketing experts. Keep in mind they need you to believe that their fees are just a drop in the bucket of your potential earnings. So their fees can really be anything, since your potential earnings can be anything. :)

The other issue is how general a lot of the info will be. Lease options in CA aren't Lease Options in TX. There are laws in place in both states that are totally different that you're probably not going to learn from a national RE educator.

Check out carefully what you get for the fee you pay, and check with others who've attended before and find out what they think they got. Know yourself well enough to know whether you need motivation or strategies.

6 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

I agree. :)

I certainly paid attorneys to learn things.

:)

Did you pay the attorneys so that you could learn? Or them? Because there is no doubt in my mind that some of my attorneys have learned more from me than the other way around. I pay them to advise and keep me safe, but if they are learning something new, they are learning it on my dime. In my experience not all attorneys volunteer where they are not experts.

4 Reply

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Brian Levredge:

...

I think this is also greatly compounded by the fact that many people are often looking for that magic bullet that is going to lead them down the path to riches. More often than not, they don't want to put in the time or work to do what it takes and instead want to have someone else tell them. When they pay someone else 1k (or whatever the amount happens to be) for that, and then fail to do anything else, they look to assign the blame to the person who made them 1k lighter.

But Brian, the guy at the seminar said wholesaling was easy and that it could be done with no money and from home using just my computer and phone :)

So the seminar pitch-men ARE partly to blame ...

3 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

I agree. :)
I certainly paid attorneys to learn things.

:)

Did you pay the attorneys so that you could learn? Or them? Because there is no doubt in my mind that some of my attorneys have learned more from me than the other way around. I pay them to advise and keep me safe, but if they are learning something new, they are learning it on my dime. In my experience not all attorneys volunteer where they are not experts.

I paid them in the early years, I also got a lot of free advice. In past years the tables were turned so to speak, especially in areas of seller financing. Many here had done deals for years without much concern, after I spoke with them several stopped doing deals, they were totally unaware of many of the issues.

Many fed me deals, we would collaborate in various ways as well, in my last 15 years or so I don't think I paid for legal work, except in estate matters.

RE and finance are not taught in law school, certainly comes in corporate law areas but not a specialty taught to my knowledge, just what I've been told as I didn't go to law school. So yes, they need to learn in many areas just like everyone else. They drill down a lot deeper too. Probably why many paid me to do their deals and handed stuff off. :)

1 Reply

Brant Richardson

Investor · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2013 · 658 posts · 315 votes

12y

Matt,
I'm guilty. I don't hesitate to tell people to stay away from the expensive seminars even though I don't know anything about the seminar. The people I'm telling this too are generally newbies who are not aware how prevalent the guru scam is. They have a lot to learn and need to get the basic big picture information. At a minimum, they need to read several books and spend a few months studying. They are led to believe they can learn what they need to know over a weekend if they pay enough, fast track to getting rich.

Once they have built a solid foundation, then they can start seeking specific niche knowledge that would be worth paying an expert for.

3 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

Originally posted by @Brian Levredge:

...
I think this is also greatly compounded by the fact that many people are often looking for that magic bullet that is going to lead them down the path to riches. More often than not, they don't want to put in the time or work to do what it takes and instead want to have someone else tell them. When they pay someone else 1k (or whatever the amount happens to be) for that, and then fail to do anything else, they look to assign the blame to the person who made them 1k lighter.

But Brian, the guy at the seminar said wholesaling was easy and that it could be done with no money and from home using just my computer and phone :)

So the seminar pitch-men ARE partly to blame ...

Steve, you left out the main points, that it can be done in your spare time, only when you want to work it and that you don't need credit or additional education. :)

1 Reply

J ScottPro Member

Moderator

Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

12y

I have no issue with paying for information...here's what I have issues with:

- Paying more than the information is worth

- Someone giving me information who isn't qualified to give me information

- Someone who is interested in giving me just enough information to coax me into giving them more money for more information

- Someone who will happily give me information in return for a fee, and then on top of that require me to give them a percentage of my profits in addition

- Getting information that is outdated and ultimately causes me to spend MORE time learning than if I hadn't gotten the information

- Someone who will take money from a student who clearly doesn't have the ability, intelligence, drive and/or resources to be successful

I've done the math, and based on my numbers, a great real estate investor can make a lot more money than a great educator who is charging reasonable fees for the education. So, if someone is making a living purely as an educator, I have to assume at least one of the following is true:

1. The education costs more than it's worth;

2. The educator isn't very good at real estate investing;

3. The educator isn't doing it for the money.

If it's #3, great...good luck finding that person, though.

The rest of the time it's #1 or #2.

Podcast Guest on Show The Truth About Real Estate Investing in 2024 (What Investors NEED to Know)

16 Reply

Matt B.

OP

Investor · Vincennes, IN · Member since 2013 · 223 posts · 108 votes

12y

Now we're starting to dig a little deeper into what I was looking for. But let me ask, who here has a house they just rehabbed and put time and money into that I can have for free? Maybe an apartment building?

And yes there are plenty of properties out there if you got for free, you paid too much, just as there are hucksters selling useless information. I agree there needs to be value and it is difficult deciphering what that is. I agree there are too many late night pitchmen profiting off unsuspecting people.

I just have a hard time hearing entrepreneurs say that you can get everything you need for free.

0 Reply

Jean BolgerPro Member

Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

I think it's worth paying for actual training, like perhaps a mentor to work with you on an actual acquisition or on your first flip. Not saying that the "informational seminar" is always a bad investment, just that there may be better ones.

Frankly, I'd guess BP and other informational avenues of its ilk are going to kill the real estate seminar business as we know it (meaning the rented hotel ballroom weekend class type of thing). Not straight away, but eventually. What is happening is basically the "open sourcing" of real estate information.

2 Reply

Jean BolgerPro Member

Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Matt B. yep, I hear you about people wanting professional expertise for free. But peoples ideas of what should be free are changing rapidly.

I say this as a professional musician, who at one point was creating a nice income through the sale of my recorded work. Can you guess where I'm going with that?

The market changes- I have had to accept that. And the guys making money selling real estate training are going to have to accept it as well.

Personally, I'd recommend getting into real estate on the side ;)

1 Reply

Mary B.

Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes

12y

Absolutely think J Scott rolled it up in a nutshell. However I'll add my two coins.

I've paid for seminars that were out of my home market. Stayed in a nice hotel for a few days in another city / state and made some good contacts in the process. My objective was to get some good in-person networking done for my business in addition to generating some business expenses to deduct come tax time.

Information is always free if you just take the time to research and read you will find it. I've found a few ways to locate absentee owners just by looking online more. There are plenty of people / websites that charge for that and lots of people pay for it. My thinking is I have access to the internet just as everyone else does so if the information is out there it may take me a bit longer than typing in my credit card number to sign up to have someone else do it but I'd rather do it myself. I delegate plenty mind you but somethings for me aren't worth the price tag so I won't buy. If you would rather have someone else research and charge you to tell you about what they found even if they only tell you a small portion of what they found that's your perogative. They say you get what you pay for. Well you better make the most of it whatever the cost. I'm not against paying for seminars and will likely attend others in the future for the purposes previously mentioned.

A good process to practice is to vet the speakers ahead of time. They are often additional presenters that weren't mentioned upfront but for those that were you have plenty of time to get some details on their background beforehand. This way you can decide to take a break when they are up pitching if the findings weren't good or really tune in if they were.

Kudos,

Mary

0 Reply

J ScottPro Member

Moderator

Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Matt B.:

Now we're starting to dig a little deeper into what I was looking for. But let me ask, who here has a house they just rehabbed and put time and money into that I can have for free? Maybe an apartment building?

If I were a typical guru, I'd give you the tour for free, and on the tour, offer to sell you the bathroom for just $99. Of course, once you got the bathroom, you'd realize that it didn't offer as much as you thought it would (there isn't even a toilet in there!), but for $599, the guru would throw in the toilet *AND* let you use the dining room. Of course, the dining room is no good without access to the kitchen, which you could get for just $3995! But wait, you're going to need somewhere to sleep, right? Well, for $50,000, you can get a bedroom as well!

Well, it may have cost you close to $55,000, but at least you have your guru house now, right?

Nope, the house actually belongs to someone else...and you're out of luck, as the guru sold it all to you "as is" using a quit claim deed and no title insurance. Yeah, he mentioned a money-back guarantee, but good luck trying to collect on that...

As for you comment about not really being able to learn for free, ask me how much I've spent on my real estate education. As I'm smarter than most other people? Not if you ask my wife. Did I have more experience coming into this? I'm not allowed to change a light bulb in my house, given my lack of construction experience. Did I have a good mentor? Yup, if you consider BP a good mentor.

And to answer my own question, I've spent $69 on my real estate education (a half-day guru seminar) plus about $250 on books (about a dozen of them). The guru spent the half-day trying to upsell her $3000 3-day class, though the books have been great...

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Karen MargraveBusiness Member

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Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

12y

@Matt B. I don't have a problem paying for a seminar that is specifically focused on something that I would like a better understanding of. However; I don't like the generic, natioinal gurus that go about selling their expensive "theories" and advice, that isn't specifically targeted to the geographical area in which they are holding the seminar.

America is a HUGE country, with a variety of economies and markets across each state. One county can have various markets. Therefore; telling an inexperienced person that if they follow program X that they will be able to become rich, etc. is a flat out fallacy.

The education most new investors need, as I have come to find here on BP, is that they need to get an real understanding of their market, the process of buying/selling real estate, different types of financing, dealing with contractors and others in remodeling, etc., in other words, practical advice for them, in their market.

I hate seeing people that are struggling with their finances, hoping to find some way to get out of their hole, being lured to seminars with slick advertising, telling them they can do something that they won't have the money to do, and they spend what little money they have, ending up with nothing but a smaller bank account.

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Shaun Reilly

Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes

12y

The problem with excluding the guru type stuff is THAT is what people always say is overpriced crap to stay away from.

As others have said if you go to a seminar for a small fee that is geared towards a specific topic and there is no upsell (or something reasonable like a modestly priced book or packet of notes) then it can be a great value.

I have taken some adult education classes in several towns around me on a variety of things real estate related that have been inexpensive and very valuable. I took a class taught by a home inspector about what to look for when looking at a house (Think that was $25), I took the real estate salesperson class to learn the basics of the state law and how brokerage worked well before I considered getting a license (Think this was around $100, but WAS the class needed to get a license and was like 20 hours), I took a class with a local attorney that talked about the correct way to document things to stay out of trouble in tenant court in the very tenant friendly MA courts (Course was $25 I think and he did have a small book on the topic for sale at the end for like $8), I took a seminar with big name local real estate agent that was discussing the state of the local market and where she felt it was going (This was sure cheap for like $5, she was hoping to get new buyer clients and maybe listings). All of these were inexpensive and useful with little to no upselling.

I also have bought several guru type courses. In my experience most of them are pretty good, if you do something with them. Most are probably way overpriced for what they are, but if you actually put the information into play then you will make your money back easy.

I have only bought one course that was total crap and I could not do anything useful with even if I put the effort in. Of course in someways this was the BEST one I ever bought because it has been the LAST one I bought too. When I was getting useful ones with good information I just wasn't following through on I was justifying the cost since the info was good. When I dropped a grand on a useless POS that was a little kick to the groin that I was just wasting money on ALL of it until I actually did something.

I would not attribute any of my success since then to any particular "guru" or course or book or whatever, but I will say that I did take some of that good information and used it to get myself to take some action and at least get me pointed in the right direction. The ones that I have not utilized is because I have not put the effort into making the strategies work, and that is MY fault NOT the educators.

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Wendell De Guzman

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

12y

@Matt B. , I like your post - thought-provoking.

For me personally, I am OK paying a real estate guru to get information that I can really use in my real estate business. BUT, in the real estate guru world...you don't always get what you pay for.

I paid $5,000 once for generic info on how to buy tax liens but never used the know-how. I was a newbie then and I got enamored by the hype. Investment - $5,000; PROFIT = $0

I paid $20 for my first real estate book which netted me $10,000 on my first deal. Investment = $20; PROFIT = $10,000

I attended a $300 seminar which helped me buy a lot of wholesale deals. Investment = $300; PROFIT = HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars and still making money from it

I spent $1200 on a home study course on lease options which allowed me to make over $37,000 on my third rent to own home (so I already have some knowledge at this point but surprisingly, I got some usable information in the home study course). Investment = $1200; PROFIT = allowed me to acquire MILLIONS of dollars worth of houses with NO MONEY DOWN

Then one of my friends taught me how to do shortsales. I made over $17K on my first shortsale deal as a result. Investment = $0; PROFIT = HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars and still making money from it

So, if you draw a chart with the x axis as how much money I paid for and the y axis being my profit...you will get data points all over the place. There is no correlation.

Does it mean that spending money to get information is NOT worth it?

It is worth it. However, in the information age that we are in...we can get the information basically for free but we need to spend time and effort in digging it up and structuring the information into usable wisdom. Moreover, what will really make you money in real estate is not the information but the systems.

The bottomline is this: I will NOT pay for generic information hyped up to be the path to quick riches. However, I will pay to get the structured, usable wisdom and working systems I can implement readily in my real estate business.

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Robert Blake

Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2013 · 97 posts · 40 votes

12y

Originally posted by @Kevin Brown:

I have never been to a seminar, and that's mostly because I try to focus very closely on what I do specifically in my business. If there was a seminar abut marketing direct mail to specific neighborhoods under $200k, Id probably attend and pay for it. I could very well be wrong, but I feel seminars cast a wide net, and as much as learning more about REI cant ever be a bad thing, I don't feel Id get enough out of a the average seminar to make it worthwhile

Not if you're willing to pay $200k for a seminar, no. It'd take you forever to recoup that cost! :)

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Why is everyone against paying for a seminar?

Why is everyone against paying for a seminar?

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