Rod Khleif vs Brad Sumrok Multifamily Coaching Review ??
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 4 votes
Rod Khleif vs Brad Sumrok Multifamily Coaching Review ??
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Craig CurelopBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.
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Brad has two levels: Personal Mentoring where he walks you through how to do a deal. He has a team to whom he delegates some of the coaching, but ultimately Brad himself is looking at your deals and providing feedback.
The lower level is called Foundations where you just go through his training (to become a sophisticated investor and invest with the people doing the deals) and get to attend his networking events (in order to build relationships with these people), but you don't get to work with Brad directly.
In each case there is a fee for the first year (something like $20K and $5K, respectively), and then the renewal fee for subsequent years is much lower.
I've been a student in his Foundations program for nearly two years and have found it to be worthwhile. I'd be happy to answer any questions about it. I am only somewhat familiar with Rod so I can't really comment on his program. There are several threads about Brad on this site where you may learn all you need to know about him, and perhaps there are similar threads about Rod. Search for their names if you haven't already.
- 8yCraig CurelopBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.
- Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes8yMfh is an unfair game because you need a partner to help you with the experience question when getting a commercial loan. A mentor ship program is how most people do it.
Originally posted by @Craig Curelop:
@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.
By all means, learn as much as you can for free. Then, if you decide to explore a mentoring program, you will have the background knowledge to actually evaluate it and make an informed decision, and you'll be able to speak the language and ask intelligent questions. Some still decide they get value from a program. If it keeps you out of one bad deal, it paid for itself. If it compresses the learning curve by six months or a year, time is money. Some decide to go it alone. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. But even those who decide they don't need a mentor still need a team (loan broker, property manager, contractor, etc.). You can't do multifamily all by yourself the way you can with single family.
- Baltimore, MD · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes8yI enjoy listening to Rods podcast - very knowledgeable, great content, and good group of guests.... Brad - knows his stuff and seems to have a pretty large group of investors who close deals. I see a little bit of a red flag in the fact that his students are closing so many deals in Texas right now - in such a tight market... I’m sure you can’t go wrong with either — good luck with Multifamily !!
Originally posted by @Garrison Gilbert:
I enjoy listening to Rods podcast - very knowledgeable, great content, and good group of guests....
Brad - knows his stuff and seems to have a pretty large group of investors who close deals. I see a little bit of a red flag in the fact that his students are closing so many deals in Texas right now - in such a tight market...
I’m sure you can’t go wrong with either — good luck with Multifamily !!
Why do you say it's a red flag? Because the volume of deals done in the group indicates they might be overpaying? An alternate viewpoint is that the group is closing so many deals because they have an edge in a competitive market. Brad should use it as a selling point! It's certainly a valid question though. When considering any mentoring program, you definitely want to find out about the results. Are the students actually doing deals? In this case, the answer is yes. And are the deals profitable? So far, so good.
- Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 94 posts · 39 votes8y
Originally posted by @Bradford G.:
I saw Rod Khleif - Life Time Cash Flow Podcast is now offering Multifamily coaching
One on One $14,900 one time and $1900 a month.
Small Group $4,995 one time and $295 per month
online course $2000 or $3000 depending on when you sign upI pursued Rod's online course a little while ago. Gives you a lot of step-by-step videos. In theory, you can get the same information if you look online, but here it will be condensed, straight to the point. It had a few tricks too that were interesting. He also provides videos on the mental aspect of this business, as it takes "80% mental work" and the rest are the mechanics. Overall it's solid for people with no experience and who want to know the business quickly.
- Investor · Alameda, CA · Member since 2016 · 132 posts · 170 votes8y
Helpful thread so far.
Here is a question i'm wrestling with and would appreciate any advice on:
If you plan to invest in an out-of-state market, should you partner with an investing group based in that market... or would it make more sense to simply find the highest-quality mentoring program, regardless of location?The 2 key reasons I'm interested in joining a mentorship/investing group are:
- Build relationships with more experienced sponsors, KPs and investors - those who would be open to investing mutually in each others deals because we are at similar stages
- Partner with a deeply-experienced syndicator on the first deal, even if that means giving them a significant % of profit
Do you know where you want to invest? Partnering with someone already in that market would be wise. Even if you joined a good mentoring program in another location, they will probably tell you to start building a team in your target market, so the end result is the same.
Again, I can only speak firsthand of the Sumrok program, but I can tell you that Brad's students are absolutely doing the things you mentioned in your two bullet points. Why not check it out by coming to his weekend seminar in March. You'll meet many of his existing students, and learn about their experiences, without a high-pressure sales pitch.
If you are considering another mentoring program, do the same thing: meet some of the current students, and find out what their results have been. Have these people already done what you want to do?
- Investor · Alameda, CA · Member since 2016 · 132 posts · 170 votes8y
Thanks for the reply and advice @Paul B.
Target market is Phoenix, AZ. If there are any recommendations/referrals to established professionals in that market and you are willing to share them. Please send my way!
If/when we aim our sights on the great state of Texas, Brad's program seems like a no brainer (it's also remarkable how many mentors/trainers are based in Texas, in general) There are indeed quite a few mentoring programs in Texas, probably because it is such a large market for apartment investing. Brad's group is based in Dallas, but his students live in and are buying in many states, including Arizona, so if you think you might benefit from such a program, don't rule it out based on your location alone.
I know of two different students who each bought an apartment complex in the Phoenix area in the last year or so. Unfortunately I don't have broker connections myself, as I am only an investor in syndications and not doing my own deals. I only bring it up to say it can be done, even with a group that doesn't have a long history in that market (the two deals I mentioned were the first in the market to acquired by a Sumrok student).
- Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes8y
I am a member of the Brad Sumrok Mentoring group. Thru this group I have invested 9 apartments with >800 MF doors as a passive investor, Loan Guarantor and Co-sponsor. The mentoring is great and the students in the group are very helpful. If you are planning to invest in MF, the 2-day weekend Sumrok training is very helpful. For an investment of $197, you get a good overview of the MF industry.
- Investor · Redondo Beach, CA · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 18 votes8y
I've been in Rod's small group for about 6 months up to this point.
I joined for 2 main reasons:
1. I was seeking an experienced mentor who I would personally interact with.
2. I wanted to expand my network of like minded people.
I'm happy to say that both criteria have been met. As a member of his group, he makes himself readily available. He teaches/leads the discussions. If you have questions, he will answer you directly (vs. moderators or coaching assistants). Personally that is what I wanted, an active mentor. Rod is an ACTIVE mentor, which takes a lot of time/energy. The cherry on top is that he is always enthusiastic, and he truly seems to thrive off of helping and coaching others which is infectious.
People in the group are great, positive, and supporting. Some have closed deals, others have deals under contract, and any progress (big or small) is celebrated.
Also, Rod's mentorship has a spiritual side. If you are into positive affirmations, the Miracle Morning, Tony Robbins, etc. then you'll enjoy that aspect. To me - that's a big plus. I was just telling my friend today that I'm getting multi-family, high performance, and relationship mentoring all in one package!
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
- Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 28 votes8y
Brad's Group is obviously doing volume. Does anyone know if Rod's is?
We are considering joining a couple mentor groups to build relationships with more investors. Our last deal we engaged a mortgage broker that also brought a Private Equity LP (Limited Partner) to the deal. He made a nice fee (more than Brad and Rod's combined). We would like to have more individuals that we deal with directly.
How do the mentor groups work? If we join is there a platform to present the deals to the members?
Originally posted by @William Kyle Walker:
How do the mentor groups work? If we join is there a platform to present the deals to the members?
In Brad's group, you attend the bus tour & networking events (six times a year - you don't have to make all of them) in order to meet other students personally. You can also post on the private Facebook page to introduce yourself to the group. You tell them what you are looking to do, and find out what their goals are, and start building up an investor database. Then when you have a deal, you send it to everyone on your list who has expressed interest in potentially investing with you. In order to comply with SEC regulations, there is no platform to publicly announce your deal to the crowd (both posting on Facebook and publicly announcing it at an event could be construed as a solicitation, which is not permitted under the structure that most sponsors in the group use). But if you do it right, you'll have a large pool of educated people with money to invest, by the time you have a deal to offer. It's like fishing in a stocked pond.
- Rental Property Investor · Mt Pleasant, SC · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 8 votes8y
Thanks, @William Kyle Walker for asking this question and @Paul B. for answering it. I was actually curious about the same thing.
Browsing Rod Khleif's website and looking at the prices @Charles H. posted it seems there is a lot of overlap between Brad and Rod's programs. Has anyone ever been to events of both Rod and Brad? I'm wondering which one of these or any other MF coaches is more stuff and less fluff :-)
- Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 94 posts · 39 votes8y
Originally posted by @Sebastian Hauer:
Thanks, @William Kyle Walker for asking this question and @Paul B. for answering it. I was actually curious about the same thing.
Browsing Rod Khleif's website and looking at the prices @Charles H. posted it seems there is a lot of overlap between Brad and Rod's programs. Has anyone ever been to events of both Rod and Brad? I'm wondering which one of these or any other MF coaches is more stuff and less fluff :-)
I went to one of Rod's Event, actually was his first he did. I had a ticket since it was part of the program. Was solid if you have never done any research in MF investing. He had a few guests like Kevin Bupp and Spencer (he posts a lot on BP). I liked how he pushed people to meet and talk between each other. I have never been to a Tony Robbins event (and no big interest tbh) but it seems Rod used some of the ideas that he placed between MF investing topics to keep people motivated. I think it was good for the people who needs the motivation. I still think coaches are very very expensive though but i guess it works for some people.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
I have no personal knowledge about either of these gentlemen but have been around the Paid for training for years and years.. both as student and invited Vendor to events.
I think in a nut shell many of these give the student the push they need and the confidence they need to move forward.
Although in the MFR realm this is not a Guru how to make money with no money.. I think the folks that pay for these programs have the wherewithal to simply cut a check and its no big expense to them compared to what they stand to get out of it. I doubt many are going into credit card debt or if they are that's kind of crazy.. as this part of real estate has no smoke and mirrors generally.
And I suspect because most of these folks are doing some sort of PPM and need to deal with accredited investors.. that separates those wanting to start to those who have already had some financial win's or experience and just looking for a new avenue.. So seems to me pretty cheap way to get to meet people that are doing the deals and learn at the same time.
Bp is nice and fine.. but its just the internet.. you can only learn so much here. at the end of the day real estate is belly to belly you got to go work and meet with who your going to entrust your investment funds with.. or if your going to try a new line of work.. IE becoming a MFR landlord you do need some training.
Its just like when you buy a franchise you have to go to their training so you learn how to cook the burgers right and so on and so forth.
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Although in the MFR realm this is not a Guru how to make money with no money.. I think the folks that pay for these programs have the wherewithal to simply cut a check and its no big expense to them compared to what they stand to get out of it. I doubt many are going into credit card debt or if they are that's kind of crazy.. as this part of real estate has no smoke and mirrors generally.
Right on. A common bit of advice seen on this site is, "Don't spend $20K on a mentoring program when you could spend that money on your first deal and you'll learn much more." That's probably sound advice for single family rentals or flips. But for large multi-family, that amount hardly covers your legal fees for one transaction, let alone down payment, due diligence costs, lender fees, other closing costs, etc. Not to mention you need to have some liquidity left over after the deal closes in order to qualify for a loan. So the advice on what to do with $20K doesn't quite apply.
I am not saying everyone needs to pay for a mentor....there are multiple ways to get into the game. But someone who wants to start buying or investing in large multi-family (60+ units) should be in a position where $20K isn't going to make much of a dent in their finances, regardless of whether it gets spent on a mentor or on closing costs.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Paul B. Agreed... depends on your skill level.. if you have no experience at real estate other than maybe buying your personal resi.. and want to venture into this I can't see how the course would not be a good use of funds.
if you have 20 years as an experienced investor or real estate broker then the course maybe is not needed.. but the contacts I am sure are worth every penny.. I know I had no experience in MFR when I brokered my first deal and it was a 5 million dollar multi. but I had a few thousand transactions in my experience bucket and I did it for one client only.. Kind of like a buyer broker I did not have to worry about them going around me extra.
- Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 28 votes8y
Thanks @Paul B.
The "Stocked Pond" is what interest me. I know Brad does an interview with each of his students to see if they are a good fit for the program. I don't think he would allow someone that had to put the fee on a credit card. I don't know what his minimum liquidity requirements are to join. Most deals that I have talked to his students about have a minimum $25k or $50k investment some sell out quick others don't.
- Real Estate Agent · watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 29 posts · 16 votes8y
I did a coaching session with Rod Khleif and I really enjoyed his enthusiasm. He really brought a lot of value in just one and half hour call. The only issue I had with his programs is how short a time the coaching programs are.
Option 1: 15K for 6 month which included 3 times a month 1:1 coaching directly with him and 1:1 coaching once a week with one of his 8 coaches. There were a lot of other training, software, and videos included such as syndication training, high performance call, 1:1 deal analyzing, scripts and much more.
Option 2: $5,000 for 30 days and then $295 a month after that. Everything in option 1 except for 1:1 coaching. 3 coaching calls per month and the ability to call/email him when you find a deal.
Option 3: $2,995 for his course and a special deal of $1,997 if I made a decision on the phone. This included wholesaler course and other videos on commercial property.
Since I'm looking for 1:1 mentoring I felt that the best option would be option 1. But my biggest concern is that such a large expense for such a short time would not add as much value as what I'm looking for. He did try to work with me by extending my time from 6 month to a year which led me to ask him question about his turnover rate and success rate of his mentee. He was not able to answer those questions satisfactory hence why I decided not to join his program. Although I do like how personal and upfront he was on the phone due to the fact that his program does have such a short time limit I don't expect to develop a mentor-mentee relationship that is more transformational.
If anyone on bigger pockets is on Rod Khleif coaching program please let me know how it turned out for you? Did you achieve your income goal? What percentage of those who joined would you say reached their income goal? I believe this question addresses how effective the coach is at helping his mentee achieve their goal and if this is more of a transactional experience or a transformational one.
- Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 28 votes8y
I was also wondering if they have any value added services for looking at deals.
Does any of the coaches provide any of the following?
Costar
RealPage - Axiometrics
RedIQ
Rentlytics
Originally posted by @William Kyle Walker:
I was also wondering if they have any value added services for looking at deals.
Does any of the coaches provide any of the following?
Costar
RealPage - Axiometrics
RedIQ
Rentlytics
Brad is a subscriber to CoStar so his students can get those reports when they are looking at a property.
- Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 316 posts · 130 votes8y
Originally posted by @Craig Curelop:
@Bradford G. - Before you go and spend $15,000 on anything. Why don't you take a few months and attend a few of the BiggerPockets webinars hosted by Brandon, listen to some of the podcasts, and read a few of the recommended books. I bet you'll learn just as much (if not more) for about 1% of the cost.
There are hundreds of thousands of people in this BiggerPockets community who are very successful at real estate investing and are willing to provide you with the same information as these guys, but for free.
You raise an interesting point for consideration. The key question, especially as a finance guy, to ask "Can I deploy that same $15k more efficiently to and get a better result?" An immediate answer can be no. Some people want and need the direct one on one support and other support systems readily available which does have a dollar value. If you are bit more outgoing that money can be used to build your personal relationships by joining like minded organizations and groups. The funds can be used to pay for memberships, networking events, and one on one personal meetings over lunch or such.
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