Is fortune builders mastery program legit?
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First take $1K and:
- Join your local REIA, attend regularly and talk to the people there (~$150 - $200/year)
- Take some friendly local investors out to lunch/dinner/drinks ($50 per "date")
- Buy some good RE investing books ($5 - $20 each, used or new)
- Pick up a few well-regarded guru courses used on Ebay ($100 - $200 each)
That will give you big head start without having to throw $25K at something that may or may not be what you're looking for.
316 Replies
These guys started out in my state and at the same local REI club. They made good money rehabbing houses during the boom years but have since turned there business into this coaching thing for outrageous prices, can't blame them but there not teaching anything new here. Haven't seen them around since and I know for a fact some of those TV rehab's they lost money on.
Best advice is to just go out and do it!
- 14yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I've stated on here more times than i can count that you have to know what it is you want as an investor before buying a program, hiring a coach or finding a mentor. Otherwise, you are wasting both time and money. The FB program is an excellent program for the right investor and often one that needs more motivation and mentorship than education. But the education is excellent as well.
It all boils down to the same thing every time. If you are willing to work at something you can succeed whether you are paying for a coaching program or not. But if you are paying, and you are not willing to work and learn, you will fail every time.
If it is worth it to you to pay 25k, and I know plenty of people who have and have made 10X+ return on that investment, then pay it. If it is not worth it to you to pay 25k for education then do not. If you are not in position to make that a successful investment in yourself, do not pay it. And I personally know the owners of FB and have heard them say the same thing many, many times.
All in all, they are good people and they are absolutely still investing and have invested in a lot of passive real estate with my company. So unlike some of the comments on here, they are not selling one thing and doing another. They are still active in the fix/flip market, they are active in the lending business and they are active in the buy & hold passive income market.
You have to decide for yourself what makes sense and if you are in a position to succeed. Until that answer is yes, it doesn't matter how much or how little you pay, success will be hard to come by. No sense is spending any money until you are ready to succeed.
- Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 178 posts · 62 votes14y
Wow! Those guys are smart!!! $5 k for 8 30 min phone calls by a random person regurgitating Internet videos? I am impressed with how they have leveraged their tv show.
Clearly their are alot of strong opinions about this, I guess I should have been more clear and just asked from those that have actually completed the program. They r really the only ones that can say whether it is worth the money. I have started the program and so far it is great!
Originally posted by Keri Amorosa:
Clearly their are alot of strong opinions about this, I guess I should have been more clear and just asked from those that have actually completed the program. They r really the only ones that can say whether it is worth the money. I have started the program and so far it is great!
While feedback from those who've completed the program (with subsequent success, or not) would certainly be valuable information, you would also want to talk to successful wholesalers who became successful without a guru mentoring program.Nevertheless, since you've already started the program it would be interesting to the BP nation if you'd give us periodic updates on what the program has offered, and what you've done to start your real estate investing endeavors.
Best of luck!
- 14yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Dave Meyer after first reading your comment I thought you were trying to personally disparage Keri Amorosa after she discloses she bought the program and is having a positive experience. I re-read and realized you were saying that others would say positive things so as not to look like an idiot(?). I don't know if they will or won't, but I do know that if Keri is determined to succeed she can and if following their program is her chosen path then we should all support her regardless if we think she was right or wrong. I agree with you Tom A. that it would be good to hear from Keri on her experiences and if there is anything I can do to help you Keri (I'm sure others feel the same) don't hesitate to ask.
Best of luck -
Keri Amorosa, you're better off coming out to the monthly Houston BP meet-up and asking lots of questions. The next meeting is this Thursday..
Link to thread: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/86/topics/73538-june-houston-bp-networking-june-11th
- Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2012 · 2 posts · 5 votes14y
I went to their 3-day insider's summit and this is what you get for $25K:
- All those study courses that you've heard you can get on ebay
- Lifetime web access to all their resources and computer systems that automate everything from lead generation web site to autoresponders to direct mail that reaches your target market -- it's ALL on autopilot if you want it to be
- 6 months Intensive 1-on-1 coaching and mentorship with a custom-designed curriculum and action plan that is based on your particular goals and interest in real estate
- Access to 5 x 4-day live bootcamp events on wholesaling, rehabbing, private lending, REO & Short Sales, etc
- 2-day Full Local Immersion where they take you around on a bus in your local market and stop at several properties and analyze the deals in your local market, estimate repairs in your local market, etc.
- Property buying tours (on a bus) in various markets
- Networking with the nation's top real estate investors (all coaches that mentor you in the program must make millions of dollars a year in real estate)
- Networking with successful people who connect you to others to help your business grow (it's like a REIA on steroids--they're proven performers, not wannabes)
- All the legal forms and docs you need to close deals, including purchase offers, mortgage deeds and release of deeds (if you are doing private lending deals), promissory notes, etc.
- Unlimited deal review for every deal you do, so someone can guide you and help you make the most out of every deal
- Speed of implementation (sure you can learn a lot of this stuff online and from books, but it might take 1-2 years to amass all the knowledge and materials yourself)
- Fully integrated software (web site lead generation, deal analyzers, database and customer relationship manager, accounting reports, marketing, etc) -- you could put all this stuff together yourself, but it wouldn't be automated, thus costing you hundreds of hours of extra labor per year
- Systems that train your employees
- Systems that allow you to replicate yourself in several markets without your business being reliant on you being there to run things
- Guaranteed 24-hour response from a coach
- Emergency Hotline to talk to a coach immediately
- Lifetime membership and access to all their educational systems and continuing markets as markets changeAs you can see, FortuneBuilders's Mastery program is much more than a seminar company. It is like buying a franchise of proven business with systems that are custom designed for the kind of real estate business you want to do.
Kind regards,
Wendy
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Wendy Mathias:
...
- Fully integrated software (web site lead generation, deal analyzers, database and customer relationship manager, accounting reports, marketing, etc) -- you could put all this stuff together yourself, but it wouldn't be automated, thus costing you hundreds of hours of extra labor per year
- Systems that train your employees
- Systems that allow you to replicate yourself in several markets without your business being reliant on you being there to run things
...As you can see, FortuneBuilders's Mastery program is much more than a seminar company. It is like buying a franchise of proven business with systems that are custom designed for the kind of real estate business you want to do.
...
Call me skeptical, but if it's all automatic like that, they can just go and do this everywhere; they can have a franchise anywhere in the USA and they wouldn't have to be in any of those locations themselves. So then why do they need anybody else, such as you or me?
I still sometimes wonder why they went from CT to San Diego, especially since they can do all that automatic stuff from anywhere ...
- Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2010 · 74 posts · 9 votes14y
I would move from CT to San Diego as fast as possible, but I grew up in Florida
- Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes14y
To disclose I do a bucketload of mail for their students and Than has written about me in his material. That said.
I speak to about 20 investors a day. Or people who want to be investors. The overwhelming common denominator when speaking to a fortune builders student is their mental success. What I mean is that these people are serious and their intelligent.
I'm amazed at how successful they are in their personal lives and the level of dedication they have to seed that same success into theyre investment career.
I have yet to hear a single one belittle the program or feel taken advantage of.
One of the coolest aspects is that the Fortune Builders Program would rather pass onto their students their referral fee over earning it themselves. The FB system isn't selling hype. I've yet to hear a student who was or felt like they were sold the kool aid.
Can you go it alone without help? Certainly. I did. However that was 32 years ago when you drank water from the hose. Today's different. And highly intelegent see the value in an advisor. That's what I see is the difference. The fortune student will succeed because of themselves and because of the program.
I just attended the 3-day summit where I paid $200 for two people. The summit was way over what I have expected and well worth it. But then, it is also way, way cheaper than the Mastery program. Although, they gave a $5k discount on the Mastery, it is still $20k, which I still could not afford. I kind of want to go for it because of the automated system they are providing, and not necessarily for the coaching.
With over 30years of work experience as IT, I understand very well the advantage of an automated system. FB's system looks awesome "as presented". If the system really does what they say it does, it would be a great tool that will certainly help entrepreneurs succeed easier and faster in this business (my husband and I have been RE agents for over 20 years). However, I would be very interested to hear from people who have been through the program and seen the system. It looked like the system has gone through deep analysis and with the objective of helping the entrepreneurs.
The skepticisms of others who posted here are understandable. I tend to agree that the Mastery is pricey. But looking at it from another perspective, I just paid $14k for my daughter's tuition to get a medical certification so that she can earn $20 / hour instead of the minimum. And that is only for a certificate.
Also, I also feel that some things said here about FB as a business is unfair. I don't think FB is making their millions off of the Mastery tuitions. FB says that their objective is to "help up". I wished those who have been in the program would provide honest posts a little more about their experiences so that people like me can be 'educated' about what FB is all about. That would be more credible than those those who criticize the business without facts.
- Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2012 · 2 posts · 5 votes14y
As far as the system they are selling, it is LITERALLY the same as Realeflow.com, but with some extras the FortuneBuilder's gives you, and at half the price of Realeflow. When you sign up with the Mastery program, you get 6 months' free of FBLow (compare to the retail value of Realeflow, which costs $1200 for 6 months).
From FortuneBuilder's web site:
"FBflow is FortuneBuilders’ version of Realeflow Investor – it’s the same database, with additional squeeze pages, auto-responders, and documents exclusive to FortuneBuilders."
Here is RealEflow's description of their service:
http://www.realeflow.com/fbflow/fast/index.html
See the FortuneBuilder's pricing compared to the retail pricing here:
http://realeflow.com/fbflow/sixmonthsfree/page2.html
Kind regards,
Wendy - Industrial Property Investor · franklin, MA · Member since 2010 · 4 posts · 1 vote14y
Keri Amorosa
I have no idea how I came across this post but as someone who is in the FB Mastery program I will try to give you an honest review. Not sure if you need it as it looks like you already committed to it but you may need some reassurance.I am someone who believes a person has to continually educate themselves. I decided early on that I would reinvest a portion of rehabbing proceeds to education. That being said, I have spent money on education that was garabage but at least I learned what not to spend my education dollars on.
I heard about FB Mastery several years ago from someone on this forum. It took me a long time to come to grips with spending that kind of money on education. While we had the rehabbing portion of the business down to a science, we could NOT find enough deals.
Joining the Mastery program changed that. We have been in the Mastery program for 3 years now and every year we have doubled the amount of properties we are rehabbing. Our business model has always been to net 30k on each property. I knew the tuition would be earned back on the first property after joining so I could justify the expense.
I personally could not have done that without joining the program. I still use the resources such as the business building friday calls. I find them invaluable.
I view it as a toolbox or supply house. Much like I go to Lowes or Home Depot or the local lumber yard for a certain item, I will go to the FB site to get a certain document. If it's not there or I need help with I get an answer within hours. Very helpful.As you are already into the program, the one suggestion I will make is- follow the system because it works.
I would also recommend the other suggestions mentioned in this post such as joining AND attending your local REIA. You will make the contacts you need there as well.
Good luck!
I also attended the 3 day in Miami as a guest of my realtor. Good information, I picked up a few tips and was also reminded of the basics I had stopped using years ago. Definitely worth many times the $200 we paid. One thing he kept telling the crowd is, its a buyers market. We got a kick out of that, not in Miami!
There are several of their packages available for under $250 on Ebay the day I looked.
As far as the mastery program, I was never contacted.
- Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes14y
Keri -
I think it is a mistake to jump into anyone's 25K program. There is so much information out there for so much less money, there's no need to spend that much money.I don't know specifically about this program, but I did purchase one program from them several years ago that was so basic it was a complete waste of money. For anyone new, you can get this same information FREE here on BP, or at a $97 Saturday seminar, at a 3 day event at OREIA this fall or from any number of other places. When I called for the "promised" refund if not satisfied, I ddn't get it. What I got was another program that was o basic it was of no use to me either. I totally threw right at 1k down the toilet.
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Riz O:
... I tend to agree that the Mastery is pricey. But looking at it from another perspective, I just paid $14k for my daughter's tuition to get a medical certification so that she can earn $20 / hour instead of the minimum. And that is only for a certificate.
...Not surprised that this angle came up. Almost all of the trainers out there (not specifically any one) will use a similar comparison, whether it be higher education in the form of a certificate or whether it be compared to college tuition. When this is brought up, it helps persuade people to buy in.
- Investor · The Bronx, NY · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 44 votes13y
J Scott, FortuneBuilders is much more than a rehab course. Rehabbing is about 1/10th of what the teach. Yes, it's expensive but it's worth every penny and then some.
Originally posted by Pete Nater:
J Scott, FortuneBuilders is much more than a rehab course. Rehabbing is about 1/10th of what the teach. Yes, it's expensive but it's worth every penny and then some.Pete Nater -
Can you tell us what the other 90% is? And what parts can't be learned for less than $25,000?
- Investor · The Bronx, NY · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 44 votes13y
@ J Scott, for a team of 4 you get:
Mastery Coaching & Support
26 Weeks of Intensive Weekly Coaching
26 Action Plan Modules Designed to Set Up Your Business
1 on 1 Coaching Sessions
26 Weeks of Email & Emergency Hotline Support
Business Plan Review & Deal Submission Review
24/7 Free Access to the Mastery Website
Mastery Mastermind Event
Homestudy Systems & Online Training Products
Marketing Homestudy System
Wholesaling Homestudy System
Rehabbing Homestudy System
Pre-Foreclosure/Short Sale – Online Training
6 Week Negotiation Series – Online Training
48 Hour Transactional Funding
FortuneBuilders University Membership
Live Training Packages
Pre-Foreclosure/Short Sale Bootcamp – 4 Days + Guest
Rehabbing Bootcamp – 4 Days + Guest
Marketing & Wholesaling Bootcamp – 4 Days
Info Empire Event – 3 Days + Guest
Memphis 2-Day Buying Tour – Personal Onsite Visit + Guest
Personal Onsite Office Intensive
Visit our Multi Million Dollar Real Estate Office
Office & Business Set Up
Follow Up Consulting Sessions - Investor · The Bronx, NY · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 44 votes13y
J Scott you also get a sense of family. The private Facebook Group is like no other group you'll find
- Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes13y
So, I'm curious. The real value of a course like this isn't the content or any "sense of family". Its how you can do deals that you could not have done if you hadn't taken the course. What deals have you been able to do using the techniques taught in this course?
Also, we require full disclosure here. In other posts, Pete Nater, you are offering for someone to be a member of your team of four. I assume that's not a free offer. And that, if you don't find a fourth you and the other two will have to bear the full cost yourself. Advocating the course in this thread requires disclosure because you stand to benefit financially from your advocacy of the course.
Pete Nater -
Here's my issue -- $25K is enough money to do an entire deal (assuming you get financing for the rest) in many markets. And I can promise that studying freely available materials and doing a single deal will teach 99% of wannabe investors more than all the "training" and "coaching" in the world.
If you told me that someone would spend a month with me in my home market, help me market locally for deals, look at houses with me, help me learn how to do inspections and estimate rehab costs, help me prepare offers on a contract that was valid in my state, help me do due diligence when an offer was accepted, help me hire contractors, help me manage the rehab, etc., I might think it was worth it. Because doing a deal is where 75% of the real world knowledge comes from. You're not going to get that from a bunch of "home study" material, phone calls, online training, and non-local events, etc. -- for the education piece, you don't need to spend $25K.
And specifically, I don't see anything on that list of training materials that warrants a $25K price tag. I'm self taught...and I learned all of that stuff by reading, by networking with other investors in my area and by doing my first deal.
In fact, I'm guessing that by doing my first deal, I learned more than all of that stuff put together. And instead of spending $25K, I actually made money doing it.
If I can learn it all without having to spend more than a couple hundred dollars taking other investors out to lunch, I'm pretty sure anyone can. That said, education is a big business, and those who stand to make a lot of money through education and training are very good at convincing people that it's nearly impossible to learn without spending ridiculous amounts money.
I'm proof that that's not true. As are LOTS of other investors here on BP and in the real world.
Just my $.02...
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