RENATUS SCHOOLING?
Wholesaler · Springfield, MA · Member since 2013 · 24 posts · 7 votes
RENATUS SCHOOLING?
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by Doug Leedy:
I belong to Renatus here in south Florida. It's 100% legit. I've been in real estate for 40 years and it's the best concept in real estate investing I've seen in my career. I only wish it had been available when I was younger. I've been to several of the Guru's and spent tens of thousands of dollars, so I know and understand their models, and Renatus blows them out of the water for several reasons.
Doug - You have 4 posts on BP, all of which are regarding this company and 3 of which are just cut-and-paste of the exact text above. While that doesn't necessarily detract from your experience or opinions, it does call into question your relationship with the company (and your motives for posting here).
Is there a reason you've chosen to participate in the discussions about this company over the past year, but no other discussions here on BP?
390 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Phillip Tillotson:
Originally posted by @Doug Leedy:
FYI, MLM is a marketing system that has nothing to do with real estate. Technically, Renatus is not an MLM, but it does use marketing in selling its education, just like all colleges and universities do. There are some components of MLM (which is a legitimate marketing system used by most companies today, major or minor) but it is not a pure MLM and that has been verified by the FTC. You may participate in that side of the business, you may just become an investor, or you may do both. It's actually YOUR choice, which some on here don't seem to grasp. Please take the time to investigate yourself. Then you'll know.
I watched all 8-16 hours of video and sat on a conference call. (for my fiancee) Here were the key points to the phone call.
The phone call started by Renatus asking if I was going to do marketing. I told them no which was followed by an awkward silence. Then a long sigh and a "Ok so what do you want to do." Clearly he was not enthused.
Q: Can I be an investor without going through the school?
A: No. We have things to teach even the most experienced.
Q: Can I test out?
A: Yes, but you still have to pay for the school.
I never could get him to clearly explain why there were two pyramids for marketing and then a pyramid for the real estate side.
The main exit strategy for all deals were to whole sale to a large hedge fund.
They had 0 numbers for success rates. They spent 90% of the 8-16 hours of video explaining the marketing. Clearly, they were targeting people with low funds and limited knowledge or people who know how to play the game well and legally dupe others.
I have a lot more negatives. If this gets pushed further then I'll spend the time to find the proof (again) so that you can't accuse me of being a liar. One is about a school before Renatus that is linked to people that run the current Renatus school.
He didn't explain two pyramids because you can't explain what doesn't exist! Renatus is not a "pyramid" - though, if it were, it would be an inverted pyramid: the highest paid people are at the BOTTOM, and residual income continues "upward" for only three levels.
Wholesaling to the hedge fund is only one option. The whole market-at-large is available to any investor, Renatus or not.
Anyone caught "duping" others would have their affiliate agreement immediately terminated. Be sure to report any such activity to Renatus Corporate.
If you have more negatives, definitely post the links. I want to see you find links to information which is erroneous see I can report it to Renatus Corporate and they pursue legal action to have it removed.
- Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes11y
Originally posted by @Doug Leedy:
Phillip,
I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking about. What video? Who was the phone call with? I've never seen or heard of any 8-16 hour video unless you are watching actual classes, and they are not interactive. If you did a conference call with a Renatus affiliate who reacted like that I'd look for another one. We usually do our exposures through live meetings. Something doesn't add up. Do you have names? I will say this: some affiliates put more emphasis on marketing than I care for, but I've never seen one who doesn't emphasize the investing side. That's what most people are looking for.
Bill, I don't know what to tell you either. It's over 200 hours. Period. If that's not enough for you, don't do it. But I don't think you can find that many anywhere else. If you can, that's probably where you should go. Renatus isn't for everyone and it sure looks like you're one of those people. I guess that answers the earlier question if anyone is ever turned down :)
Scott Rowe recorded the videos. He did it via webex. It appeared to be his home. Other people were included. One was a woman in marketing.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
I think J. S. this is a business opp... top BP contributors start the BP RE school... Charge fair price to educate them.. give them money back option within a reasonable time.. etc etc.
there is only so much educating you can do reading all these posts... one needs to put it all together succinctly and in order so students could follow it... Each BP professor takes on their subject as a module...
Now remember were you heard it.
That's an excellent idea, Jay!
Do, it - so you'll develop an understanding of what Renatus is and is not.
Such an experience would be a particularly good education for Jason - his experience seems a bit thin and rather limited.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
At $1/piece, that's $50,000!
....
You may have "half a brain", but you are DANGEROUSLY inexperienced if you don't even know that!
First, I said I had a quarter of a brain, not a half. Pay attention.
Second, if Renatus charges students $20K each in "tuition," that $1 per student mailing cost represents a budget of .005% of gross revenue for the purpose of tracking your company's customer satisfaction and success rate. How do you think that compares to what a typical company spends to track customer satisfaction and product success? Do you think it's more or less than .005% of gross revenue.
Are you saying that Renatus doesn't believe that allocating one-twenty-thousandth of their gross revenue towards tracking customer satisfaction and success is worthwhile? Would Renatus management agreed with that sentiment? You're the only Renatus person so-far who has claimed that cost is the deterrent to tracking success rates.
I almost hate to admit it, but reading the responses from EVERY OTHER Renatus poster in this thread actually gave me a reasonable impression of the organization (they were mostly well-thought-out, level-headed and mature)...but you've single-handedly given a negative impression of the entire organization.
I'm sincerely surprised that someone from Renatus management hasn't asked you to stop posting yet...
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
You may also want to check out http://nationalreiau.com/ .
- 11yRoy N.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Such an experience would be a particularly good education for Jason - his experience seems a bit thin and rather limited.
I always thought Jason's experience and business acumen to be formidable.
On the other hand, his hair seems a bit thin and rather limited. ;-)
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Such an experience would be a particularly good education for Jason - his experience seems a bit thin and rather limited.
I always thought Jason's experience and business acumen to be formidable.
On the other hand, his hair seems a bit thin and rather limited. ;-)
Hey there! You can insult the business acumen, but don't insult the hair! :-)
I'm actually pretty fortunate to have a full head of hair that doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon...though the color is slowing draining from it. Luckily, my wife lies to me and tells me it looks distinguished...
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Then, my advice would be to approach Bob Snyder and offer to buy the company so you can run it YOUR way.
Interesting thought...though I'm not sure how I'd put a value on an educational company that doesn't keep statistics on the success of their students...
Like any other business: by sales volume would probably be the best. I'm sure Mr. Snyder would share that with you if he were at all interested in selling.
(Since the company is the legacy he intends to leave to his family, not a good bet!)
...although, since you're such a broken record and your needle is stuck in that groove, I will offer this:
Anecdotally - and if anyone asks me, I will deny having said anything in a public forum - in my experience with people who finish the education, I'd guess some 75% acquire at least one property, then go one to achieve greater success. I only know one total washout - she's in her final course of chemo, though, and she may still bounce back - we'll see.
One of our greatest success stories is a carpenter who was hit hard by the crash, out of work for four years, on the verge of losing his own home, acquired his first property - a REO mold farm in the subdivision across the creek from my ex's nephew's house. His profit after paying back his investors and business loans: $133K. He has gone on to partner up with the VA on their initiative to house troubled veterans within walking / public transit distance of where they get their treatment for PTSD and other disorders. He and his partners get rehab assistance and rents subsidies from the VA.
How many of you "don't need the education people" even knew about that program up until a moment ago?
The value of the education extends beyond the classes, even beyond the community!
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
David,,, I am new to the thread,,, but when people start with the hey you can lose everything you own in a lawsuit I just cringe... this is just BS to the extreme.. And fear mongering. Nothing a 300 a year umbrella insurance policy would not cover the average person instead of setting up these expensive and elaborate schemes.
I do agree that the people that make the most money providing the direct mail are the direct mail companies... just like those that got rich in the Gold rush it was those that provided the pans shovels and entertainment. But there is a certain amount of business that does come from direct mail I have done it for years and made some pretty nice hits. Same could be said for RE education those that make the most money are providing the education not actually doing it.
Out of curiosity I went on your web site and did not recognize any of your instructors. Although I did like the Mckinsey Quote.. But knowing the chairman of Mckinsey personally Mr.Ron Daniel and having been his guest at Augusta National I am quite certain the whole RE education Guru industry is not one they would cotton to.
BP is an eclectic group of folks.. and you cannot draw conclusions about experience or wealth from these threads.. there are of course a preponderance of rookies ( your target market) but there are some pretty heavy hitters as well.. And Very well capitalized investors that troll the site looking for deals and or people to do business with.. ( I know I have been contacted by a few)... At the end of the day marketing your company will go on regardless of BP... We all know that there are many of these programs out there in varying degrees and many millions are made monthly by these companies probably yours included.
"... hey you can lose everything you own in a lawsuit I just cringe... this is just BS to the extreme.." Get out real estate - NOW! Your are hopelessly ill-equipped to survive a legal challenge if you really believe your own nonsense!
"Nothing a 300 a year umbrella insurance policy would not cover the average person instead of setting up these expensive and elaborate schemes." How does the average person know that without some appropriate education? (Jason? You admit you're an uneducated investor. Care to chime in?)
"Same could be said for RE education those that make the most money are providing the education not actually doing it." Warren Buffet, Donald Trump and many other prominent figures in the world of successful people would likely be inclined to disagree with you.
I do have to admit, countering the misinformation out there has become a bit of a second job. So, I will probably back off after this and let folks wallow in their lack of enlightenment.
They think they know what they need to know about something they have never experienced.
I know better - from first-hand experience - and I'm o.k. with that.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Roy N.:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Such an experience would be a particularly good education for Jason - his experience seems a bit thin and rather limited.
I always thought Jason's experience and business acumen to be formidable.
If so, he's yet to demonstrate it in this thread.
Maybe he just won't let himself get out of his own way - I dunno, but I'm not seeing it.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
...if anyone asks me, I will deny having said anything in a public forum...
Logic is certainly not everyone's forte...
Btw, given Scott Rowe's post the other day about how his lawyers would crucify him for throwing out success data publicly, I'm now even more surprised that they haven't yet asked you to stop posting...perhaps when the lawyers see your post about your estimate that Renatus students have a 75% success rate, that will change...
Have a great night!
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
...if anyone asks me, I will deny having said anything in a public forum...
Logic is certainly not everyone's forte...
Btw, given Scott Rowe's post the other day about how his lawyers would crucify him for throwing out success data publicly, I'm now even more surprised that they haven't yet asked you to stop posting...perhaps when the lawyers see your post about your estimate that Renatus students have a 75% success rate, that will change...
Have a great night!
Well, since I did say, "anecdotally" (again, consult your own legal counsel - I do! Learned that from the Renatus Education), ...
The part you obviously missed about Scott Rowe's comment is not that they CAN'T publish stat.'s, it's that any stat'.s published MUST (BY LAW!!!) be independently verifiable. Anecdotes are, by definition, unverifiable. So, I can report all the personal observations I want (aren't ALL the posters in this thread - including yourself - doing exactly that?).
So, don't feel so triumphant. You've still lost the argument by token of having no first-hand experience with Renatus. Since you've never experienced Renatus, you have no valid argument to make.
Have a Great Night!
- Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes11y
Scott Rowe: http://freelambo.com/
It's funny.......the follow up videos have been changed. Also, I can't access them without it being live.....must have had poor results.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/nouveu-riche-jim-pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_Riche_%28real...
http://nouveau-riche.pissedconsumer.com/lied-about...
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=6928
Basically, google Scott Rowe - Nouveau Riche University -
In case you are wondering....Nouveau Riche was the school that closed due to it being illegal. Some of the people from that school helped develop Renatus.
Best link for last:
http://workathomeincomereviews.com/nouveauriche-ht...
This is the reason Renatus was created. To start where Nouveau Riche failed. I highly doubt it is much different.
I've spent enough time on this. I know that Renatus rep's will continue to defend/deflect. If a person still wants to do this then I wish you the best.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
If so, he's yet to demonstrate it in this thread.
Maybe he just won't let himself get out of his own way - I dunno, but I'm not seeing it.
Perhaps the issue is that you wouldn't recognize it if you did see it?
Anyway, in all the discussion here where you've insulted and questioned our experience and knowledge, you've yet to tell us about yourself.
What do you do for a living? Are you a full-time real estate investor? An entrepreneur? A business executive? Just trying to gauge your background as a successful business-person given your criticism of others' business knowledge.
Have many real estate deals have you done? You seem eager to criticize a couple people here (other than me) who have decades of experience and have done hundreds or thousands of deals worth many tens or hundreds of millions of dollars -- I'm curious if your criticism is coming from a place of knowledge or not.
So, tell us a bit about yourself...
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @J Scott:
...
...
That makes you a gambler. With your luck, you shouldn't be piddling round in real estate, you should be working the game tables in Vegas, Tahoe, the Riviera, etc. No education needed there, either (but it sure helps!).
...
You are so correct - Jason definitely has gambled; see link:
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Perhaps the issue is that you wouldn't recognize it if you did see it?
Anyway, in all the discussion here where you've insulted and questioned our experience and knowledge, you've yet to tell us about yourself.
What do you do for a living? Are you a full-time real estate investor? An entrepreneur? A business executive? Just trying to gauge your background as a successful business-person given your criticism of others' business knowledge.
Have many real estate deals have you done? You seem eager to criticize a couple people here (other than me) who have decades of experience and have done hundreds or thousands of deals worth many tens or hundreds of millions of dollars -- I'm curious if your criticism is coming from a place of knowledge or not.
So, tell us a bit about yourself...
Sorry, Jay, not going there. See my profile on this website.
You chose to assume a confrontational posture. I am simply responding in kind.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
thanks for pointing out your profile, I would say its commensurate with 80% or greater of the BP members.. and now I can see why you have been somewhat brainwashed by the promises of RE rich's and the super simple way of getting them by just convincing others with limited experience to join so you make money without ever having to buy anything.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Phillip Tillotson:
Scott Rowe: http://freelambo.com/
It's funny.......the follow up videos have been changed. Also, I can't access them without it being live.....must have had poor results.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/nouveu-riche-jim-pic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_Riche_%28real...
http://nouveau-riche.pissedconsumer.com/lied-about...
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=6928
Basically, google Scott Rowe - Nouveau Riche University -
In case you are wondering....Nouveau Riche was the school that closed due to it being illegal. Some of the people from that school helped develop Renatus.
Best link for last:
http://workathomeincomereviews.com/nouveauriche-ht...
This is the reason Renatus was created. To start where Nouveau Riche failed. I highly doubt it is much different.
I've spent enough time on this. I know that Renatus rep's will continue to defend/deflect. If a person still wants to do this then I wish you the best.
Better still: Google Scott Rowe - Renatus.
Nouveau Riche is dead. Period, end of statement.
Renatus is not Nouveau Riche. Period, end of statement.
Jim Piccolo "killed" Nouveau Riche through fiscal mismanagement. Period, end of statement.
"I highly doubt it is much different", Phillip said, posting from a position of no first-hand knowledge or experience.
Again, speaking from first-hand experience: Renatus is TOTALLY different from Nouveau Riche. If you want to know more, get some first-hand exposure to us so you can speak from knowledge instead of conjecture. Meetings are free to attend, as are on-line avails.
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
I have looked at the list of posts here on BP for both Doug Leedy and @David Dachtera, and it seems the vast majority of what they have posted is specifically things to endorse / defend Renatus. The value speaks for itself in Doug's words - they seem more interested in debating and arguing in favor of Renatus than actually demonstrating the value of the Renatus real estate education. Now they could do a better job demonstrating their real estate education's value by posting much more here on BP to help those novices who ask for assistance. That would actually demonstrate that they have learned something from that education.
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
thanks for pointing out your profile, I would say its commensurate with 80% or greater of the BP members.. and now I can see why you have been somewhat brainwashed by the promises of RE rich's and the super simple way of getting them by just convincing others with limited experience to join so you make money without ever having to buy anything.
Show me where I said ANY of that...
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
I have looked at the list of posts here on BP for both Doug Leedy and @David Dachtera, and it seems the vast majority of what they have posted is specifically things to endorse / defend Renatus. The value speaks for itself in Doug's words - they seem more interested in debating and arguing in favor of Renatus than actually demonstrating the value of the Renatus real estate education. Now they could do a better job demonstrating their real estate education's value by posting much more here on BP to help those novices who ask for assistance. That would actually demonstrate that they have learned something from that education.
Not sure whether that would happen but it is a suggestion worth consideration ...
I left a post with how to contact me. What else would you suggest?
What, in your opinion, would be a better way to "demonstrate the value of the Renatus real estate education"? Why would that not be better served by the individual making the inquiry getting first-hand experience with the presentation?
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Sorry, Jay, not going there. See my profile on this website.Enough said. Your stance is interesting given that it sounds like your real estate efforts haven't yet paid for your Renatus tuition...
Get a few more deals under your belt and you may find that your perspective on a lot of the stuff you've said here has changed. And I mean that in all sincerity...the more deals I do, the more I realize how little I know about this business. And the more I respect the opinions of those who have accomplished more than I ever will in this business.
In the meantime, I'd recommend you stick around BiggerPockets, leverage the information we have available here and perhaps even get involved in some forum topics that are actually real estate related. It's free, so you have nothing to lose!
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @Phillip Tillotson:
...
...
post the links here - Jason doesn't doesn't seem to remove those.
...
David, BP has a number of moderators, and I doubt that @J Scott was the one who moderated the posts on this thread; those (now removed) links were there a long time after Jason had contributed after them. So that would point to one of the other mods acting here. The mods are simply following the policy of BP to not permit promotional links in discussion forums (other than the one forum where advertising is specifically permitted ).
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @J Scott:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Sorry, Jay, not going there. See my profile on this website.Enough said. Your stance is interesting given that it sounds like your real estate efforts haven't yet paid for your Renatus tuition...
Get a few more deals under your belt and you may find that your perspective on a lot of the stuff you've said here has changed. And I mean that in all sincerity...the more deals I do, the more I realize how little I know about this business. And the more I respect the opinions of those who have accomplished more than I ever will in this business.
In the meantime, I'd recommend you stick around BiggerPockets, leverage the information we have available here and perhaps even get involved in some forum topics that are actually real estate related. It's free, so you have nothing to lose!
I made over $100K in profit using what I learned (since 1985) before I connected with Renatus.
What I've learned since will help me make that much profit three and four times a year, eventually!
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Originally posted by @Phillip Tillotson:
...
...
post the links here - Jason doesn't doesn't seem to remove those.
...
David, BP has a number of moderators, and I doubt that @J Scott was the one who moderated the posts on this thread; those (now removed) links were there a long time after Jason had contributed after them. So that would point to one of the other mods acting here. The mods are simply following the policy of BP to not permit promotional links in discussion forums (other than the one forum where advertising is specifically permitted ).
The only edit I've done in this thread were to remove the phone number and email address that Doug placed in the content of a recent post. He (or anyone) is welcome to post personal contact information in their profile or signature, but within a post. Not my rules...
I have not edited anything else in this thread...
