RENATUS SCHOOLING?
Wholesaler · Springfield, MA · Member since 2013 · 24 posts · 7 votes
RENATUS SCHOOLING?
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by Doug Leedy:
I belong to Renatus here in south Florida. It's 100% legit. I've been in real estate for 40 years and it's the best concept in real estate investing I've seen in my career. I only wish it had been available when I was younger. I've been to several of the Guru's and spent tens of thousands of dollars, so I know and understand their models, and Renatus blows them out of the water for several reasons.
Doug - You have 4 posts on BP, all of which are regarding this company and 3 of which are just cut-and-paste of the exact text above. While that doesn't necessarily detract from your experience or opinions, it does call into question your relationship with the company (and your motives for posting here).
Is there a reason you've chosen to participate in the discussions about this company over the past year, but no other discussions here on BP?
390 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Hello, Michael,
I don't remember seeing an email about an update to this thread. Then again, my memory is so bad I could plan my own surprise party!
Homeless, jobless , bankrupt and bad credit is where most of the Renatus instructors started out. One of them also had the added burden of a pregnant wife who couldn't keep anything on her stomach. They were living in their car at the time. He's now one of our multi-family experts, and yes - he used the marketing side of Renatus to save his family's lives.
I agree, there is often too much emphasis on the marketing side and not enough on the education - especially in cases such as yours where you need to generate income quickly. It could be argued - quite validly - that wholesaling would work just as well, yet you still need to know how to do that in your state / county / city, etc.
In answer to the question of what differentiates Renatus from the "gurus", I can offer only this...
Gurus:
- Gurus come to town to sell. Period. Then, they're off to the next city.
- They sell you a 3-day "bootcamp" which is really a 3-day upsell to a more expensive product.
- They have no local support group - you're left to your local REIAs, BP, etc.
- They offer no financing to get you into their education
- They don't let you network with other investors at their free (marketing) events
- They don't let your record the material presented - you're left only to your own notes.
Renatus:
- Weekly Presentation is local by local investors speaking from their own experience. Some groups hold monthly workshops featuring a Renatus instructor for a day.
- There's nothing for sale at the weekly presentations, and the education is real - no selling allowed. Instructors must make at least $1M/yr doing what they teach.
- There are local Renatus groups in 11 major cities with more on the way, 5 in Metro Chicago alone. Recorded webinars are available as well.
- 100% acceptance financing is available with no credit check (20% down, 18% for three years). This can help you rebuild bad credit if you make timely payments. Other funding options are available, also, for those with income and qualifying credit.
- Networking is how we do business with each other and is always encouraged and enabled.
- Classes are available on-line 24/7 - you can repeat any class or portion of a class as many times as you want during your availability period. The top package provides lifetime access. Audio is downloadable and be kept.
- The Chicago Renatus group has study groups to help students understand their classes. Other groups and cities are following our lead.
If the moderators don't delete this post, I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion around this topic.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Homeless, jobless , bankrupt and bad credit is where most of the Renatus instructors started out. One of them also had the added burden of a pregnant wife who couldn't keep anything on her stomach. They were living in their car at the time.
Mr. Dachtera this is were you lose all credibility with me.. this is just total BS... No wonder @J Scott gave you such a run for your money..
who believes this crap all these homeless broke folks are all of a sudden real estate star's that is absolute BS to the extreme.. I have been in the industry 40 plus years I know NO one who was broke and homeless that is now rich and famous . I know many who stated out as agents or contractors or successful in other business and had funds to start a RE gig.. but I know no one who was as you describe..
All your doing is pulling at the heartstrings of those unfortunate folks that are broke and homeless and getting them to spend what little they have on your program only to end up more broke and more homeless...
sure would be nice if you guys who do these MLM type RE deals just came out with already do you think we are all idiots like those your trying to recruit.
And PS do not contact Brie as I don't want her tainted with this brush. she is a great lady is not broke is not homeless and is wildly successful because she started as RE agent and worked her way up.. this whole broke and homeless crap is so freaking old and annoying but I guess I made my point.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Just to clarify, the marketing side is entirely optional - you don't HAVE to "sign up" anyone, though if you do, the rewards are not inconsequential. Many people use the marketing side to create an "earn while you learn" opportunity for themselves.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Oh, you made your point alright, though probably NOT the point you intended.
It's a shame you're that cynical. Personally, I find negativity counter-productive. Your mileage, of course, may vary, although in my experience, successful people are inherently positive and up beat.
If you're active on Facebook, search for Jermaine Massey and send him a friend request. Then, ask him about his transition from self-employed financial advisor to living in his car to achieving success. Other instructors are on social media, also. Verify with them what they went through. Jay can give you the names (yes - I'm going to make you work for it! ...so you learn).
Again, the marketing side of Renatus is -NOT- MLM never has been, never will be, no matter how many people say otherwise.
...and if anyone wonders why I and others remark about the anti-paid-education bias on BP, here's your evidence, in Jay's own words.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@David Dachtera I could care less about these folks and have no interest in following them.
I know what you guys do I know the business from the back end as good if not better than you..
I akin this to selling lottery tickets yes someone gets rich but thousands of sucker just spend money..
there are not enough deals in the US to go around for all the people you try to recruit.. granted some with flourish.. but that some is 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 and in the mean time your making money off of their cash that they really don't have to spend.
If someone wants to be int he business they should get a RE license and create a real career not this phony baloney stuff or they should make their money in another business then enter RE investing with CASH not broke and homeless. I do not believe these stories for one minute.
please note I grew up in it My dad had a RE company and development company. I was an agent at 18 and broker at 20 am a NMLS licensed mortgage banker had two HML companies etc etc. I have talked to thousands of wood be RE investors ..
I am OK with education that is paid for but when you suck them in with the OH who is me these guys were homeless now look at them.. that's were I draw the line.. No doubt that could have happened and probably did.. but so are the homeless that won the lottery the odds are the same. end of that story @J Scott And J Scott being a famous poker player knows the sucker odds.. and me being a piss poor poker player know that I am the dunce in the room LOL
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
@Jay Hinrichs: "I know the business from the back end as good if not better than you."
Interesting you should say that.
We had our monthly workshop today. The instructor was our title, escrow, closing and commercial real estate guy. He's one of those who didn't go the "rags to riches" route, though he did express consternation about his student debts from when he was in college. He owns a title company, is an escrow officer and maintains a real estate agent license. In the course of his presentation today, he happened to mention, and this almost a direct quote - I don't have my notes handy - that by his estimation 80% of the related Renatus education is *NOT* found in ANY of his licensing or continuing ed. classes, though he thought it probably should be.
In a study group a few weeks ago, a local multi-family broker who has been in the business for 25 years said that when he came to the group he thought he knew it all and didn't need the classes - until he took the classes and found out how much he didn't know. In his own words (edited for "television"), "I found out I didn't know spit!"
I know I won't sway you, it's not my intent. I just want to keep the record straight. Until you've experienced something, best not to bad-mouth it with no first-hand experience.
I outlined our value versus "the gurus" in an earlier post. If it doesn't get deleted, I'll let it stand as testimony.
...and yes - I have experience with "the gurus", first-hand. I'm always open to learning, where ever I might find it (even in this forum thread!).
By the way...
When I say "Community Volunteer", let me describe what that entailed on this workshop day...
I arrived at the office in time to make coffee and discover that we had no creamer and that our supply of hand-towels for the restrooms was depleted. So, I got the coffee pots going, and went to a local grocery store for supplies (out of my own pocket!), came back, loaded seven bags of garbage into my trunk (the dumpster is on the far corner of the office complex lot), unloaded them, came back, washed up, put out more pastries for the guests to have with their coffee, made the rounds and verified the air conditioning was on all around, attended the morning session ducking out twice to make sure there was enough coffee and creamer for the guests, helped set up for the catered lunch, networked a bit during lunch, took out three more bags of garbage during and after lunch, put out a fresh pot of coffee for afternoon break, and afterward cleaned up the coffee pots and took another 15 bags of garbage out and half a dozen cardboard boxes (I drive a 2007 Ford Focus) before heading home.
...all on a volunteer basis. You can bet no one buzzing around a guru event does all that (that's what the hotel staff are for!).
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@David Dachtera we agree to disagree peace out
- Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Michael Enfinger:
I saw a post on CL concerning REI Apprenticeship and replied. I was contacted by one of the Renatus people in my area. I was sent links to attend webinars concerning REI opportunities. I have yet to hear anything concerning REI opportunities. Only pushing for the school and how much you can make through referrals. Doing my due diligence I googled "pros and cons of Renatus". This forum thread is the first hit.
A bit of backstory:
I am homeless, jobless. I have a credit score in the low 500's and am $50,000 in debt, $15,000 of which is in a now defaulted student loan.
I posted this in one of the chats during one of the webinars. I was told by both of the Ops people that they could help me. I need help for my family of four. Is there any reason I should go through with it (other than a lack of options).
Michael, get a job first. Yes it's possible to succeed in real estate starting with basically nothing. However, you got to cover your cashflow needs first - and that's where a job comes in. Then you can do real estate investing together with your job. Start with wholesaling or become a broker. Once you get enough income from real estate equal to our job then you quit your job and go real estate full time.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Speaking from experience in the job market...
I once asked the people in my outplacement group why anyone would get laid off and go look for another job to get laid off from ... These days, "job" and "security" in the same sentence constitutes an oxymoron.
That said, the job market for some folks remains quite challenging. Michael didn't mention his age or his skills, but for some folks their career field has all but vanished.
The hard part about real estate is not money or education - it's entrepreneurship. It's something one must "bring to the table" for the most part. Some folks can learn it which is why I do motivational speaking. Others seem to have been born with it. The rest may never get it.
- Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2013 · 75 posts · 28 votes11y
I've seen a lot of responses to Renatus on here, many of which profess to know nothing about it nor want to know anything about it. Why they feel compelled to comment on it, then, is a mystery to me. You may like it, you may not...but to say you don't when you don't know anything about Renatus is irresponsible. The comment by Jay Hinrichs about Jermaine Massey is indicative of this. Jermaine's story is absolutely true, as proudly verified by Jermaine, and is not the only such success story within Renatus.
One would think, by some of these comments, that education and support are not needed to invest in real estate. I would call people who say that gamblers rather than investors, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say the same about other professions or businesses that require the same levels of risk and investment that real estate typically does. Is Renatus for everyone? Probably not. Is it for most beginners (and others too)? I'd say yes in most cases. It is certainly a better business model than both the Guru's and just jumping in blindly. Additionally, Renatus offers the marketing OPTION (not requirement). I assume you are all aware that all Colleges and Universities pay people to recruit students for them, right? That's exactly what Renatus does IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that. It's an option. I'd say that again but it's boring me.
I've pretty much had my say previously on this forum, but I never cease to be amazed at the misinformation that is put forth on here about this company. If you have doubts or questions, check it out with either David or me, but don't dismiss it out-of-hand because of what someone who knows nothing about it has to say. That's never a good decision.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Doug Leedy the issue with leading with the homeless story is that all of you folks in this industry use it... all of you could not have been homeless and broke.. Montalongo talks about living in a garage.. etc etc.
In my pre foreclosure rescue days.. ( I bought 50 plus homes a year ) prior to the new equity stripping laws and pre foreclosure rescue laws coming into law.
I would enter a home and the owners would have gotten no less than 50 to 75 letters.
I would read said letters and a vast majority were the exact same script. and that script said that the one's sending the letter and wanting to help this poor person who finds themselves in foreclosure,, was indeed in their very same position a few years.. back they were also down on their luck lost their home BLAH BLAH ... so it struck me that the vast majority of investors must go through foreclosure themselves.. And who wants to work with someone who has not been successful in the industry.. but my point is non of it or little of it is really true.. Its the tried and true MJM marketing messages.. just like talking about the reason you going to get into RE investing is to get rid of your day job and spend more time with your kids.. GO to even one RE event and see if the speaker does not lead off with a picture of his wife and kids and go for the emotional card.. these are all very well thought out psychological presentations meant to sway someone.
If they led off with Hey we are a RE training company and it cost X to join and here is what we are going to do.. folks would get up and leave.. its a well thought out present qualify and close routine.
AS for getting educated in the industry the very best way to do that is to study get a RE license go and work for a brokerage that specializes in the field that interest you... Get on a Top producer team and work with winners day one. That is the best course for low cash folks you can get a license and work at a brokerage for less than 2k.
For those that have money to spend on education and want to take the fast track there are very good trainers that charge big dollars but they are the trainers and you pay serious dollars for REAL one one training.. I have a business associate that went that route spent big money and of course they are doing great.. But they also came from construction management background... So that helped them
And I am sure your program will Help some law of averages.. Its just the way you guys go about sending your message
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Doug, David --
I really find it amazing that you guys just keep posting in this thread, as if it's going to help their cause. I commented here several months ago about how you guys can use this forum to convince people to join your group -- participate in the forums by providing solid, expert information in response to questions that others are asking. When newer investors start seeing information that you guys are providing that they aren't seeing anywhere else, they'll start to approach you about how they can learn the business.
Trust me on that -- I get at least a dozen emails a day from new BP members who see my articles and posts and contact me to ask if I provide training/coaching services (I don't).
If you took all the time you spent arguing in this thread and dedicated it to providing solid information that's above and beyond what you can get in an Intro to Investing book, you'd get all the leads you could handle. But, either you guys don't have any expert information to provide or you're not willing to put in the effort to provide it.
Between you guys, you have about 200 posts on BP. All but one of Doug's 41 posts are in this thread -- the one that's not in this thread starts with:
It continues with no expert advice other than "You probably aren't going to find the deals in the MLS. Learn how to find those properties BEFORE they hit the market."
Why not talk about how to find properties before they hit the market? How do you target these sellers? What is your criteria? What times of the money do you approach/mail them and why? What do you say to them? How do you negotiate and overcome objections? Etc...
Those are the details that give you credibility.
David has at least made an effort (about 30% of his 150 or so posts are not direct pitches for Renatus). But, if you read through all his posts (I just did), they are all surface-level suggestions without any meat or substance. Is there a reason you don't want to provide meat and substance in your posts?
If you did, you'd likely get the response that I (and many others here) get -- lots of new investors contacting us wanting to know more!
It's sad that you'd rather spend 170 out 200 posts on this forum arguing about why people should consider your organization, as opposed to just spending some time providing some of that great information your organization teaches, knowing that it will gain you potential customers.
You want to know why people would gladly pay me instead of you? Here's why:
- Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 5 votes11y
I actually am with the Renatus community, so I pretty much know the ins and outs of the organization and will give a fair assessment. The first thing you have to understand is that Renatus is mainly a direct marketing company. I liked the concept of Renatus and that's why I joined up. I know many good people in it and there are people who are doing amazing things in real estate investing there. However, the people I see succeeding the most and best, unfortunately, are often the shysters who get dollar signs in their eyes at the prospect of making very large sales commissions on a virtual "product," without being held to any accountability or responsibility after making the sale. If you are looking for a direct sales opportunity, Renatus could be a very good company to work with. If you want to get started in real estate investing, unless you have deep pockets to begin with, my personal opinion (presuming you are competent enough to succeed working for yourself) is that you will be better off investing that money in actual real estate and learning as you go. Hope that helps!
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Greg Jones nice post . as we know with these things you have a basic pyramid and those at the top clean up... and those at the bottom end up with a closet full of Soap...
- Investor · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 5 votes11y
Thanks, Jay. Well its not quite as cut and dry as an amway model mlm or something like that. But yes there is an override structure paid out to recruiters (the company unfortunately calls them "mentors.") The alleged truth is that the company returns over 70% of all earnings to the field, that's why its a good direct sales opportunity. According to Bob Synder, the Ceo of the company, the idea is to build up enough revenue in sales that "students" can start investing in real estate, presuming they have learned how through the online classroom. Like I said, I think its a cool idea, and it can work. But the problem tends to stem from the fact that affiliates are selling a virtual product, all paid for upfront, and there is really no accountability or responsibility. I seem to end up seeing a lot of people I don't like rising to the top. The classes certainly aren't bad, but yeah its a kinda big gamble on my experience there.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Greg Jones nice post . as we know with these things you have a basic pyramid and those at the top clean up... and those at the bottom end up with a closet full of Soap...
Actually, Jay - and I deleted this from an earlier post before I committed it to the web - If anything, Renatus is an "inverted pyramid". The newcomers at the bottom are the ones who make the most money (the direct opposite of an MLM "pyramid" where the ones at the "bottom" make the least). Of course, if you actually knew anything about Renatus, you would already know that.
I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy you, Jason and all the denizens of BP who seem so determined to keep people away from the success they come to BP to seek.
Jason keeps asking for specifics.
What do you seek, Jason, that I did not include in my post from Aug 15, 07:20 PM? There, I contrasted Renatus with the gurus. What beyond that would it take?
Do you REALLY want someone to post the entire 5-hour initial exposure on line (15 minute briefing, the introductory presentation and the Q&A follow-up ... circa 40MB of text, circa. 9GB of video)? Can you suggest an appropriate area of BP to post such material? (It's educational in nature. So, the marketing area is inappropriate. Actually, there is already an established way to view those recordings; but, ...)
Would it kill either or both of you to take the time to learn first-hand and actually know what you're talking about instead of uninformed speculation - attend the presentation and follow-up: 2 evenings out of your life if you have access to the live presentations, or five hours of your time if you took the whole of the recorded material in one sitting?
...or would you have to go out afterward and commit suicide once you discover just how badly you've been behaving?
The hardest words for any person to speak or write in correspondence: "I'm sorry - I was wrong". It takes a big, BIG person to make such an admission. Are there any "big" people on BP?
I said it before, and I will say it with my dying breath: so long as the attacks continue, the defense will continue. The power to stop it rests SOLELY with you, Jason, Jay and the others. You stopped it once before - and earned my respect. Pity you had to lose it by taking it up again instead of leaving it lay.
I'm going to apologize to others reading this thread at this point - my patience with this is worn well past the breaking point.
Let's take the contrast a step further...
Let's say I'm a newbie. Tell me where on BP I would find a curriculum or a syllabus of forum and/or blogs posts to review to learn about:
- The fundamentals of Real Estate Investing (terminology, ethics, etc.)?
- Wholesaling
- Setting up my corporate entities for the best tax advantage and asset protection?
- Creative ways to acquire properties to resell or to assign contracts?
- Marketing wholesale and other properties to buyers? Marketing deals to potential partners / financiers?
- How to use Self-Directed retirement plans to invest and/or raise private money?
- Things to watch out for?
- How to manage your personal and business credit?
@Doug Leedy: If you look at your Essentials curriculum, you'll see where I got those, with the exception that wholesaling is not in the Essentials track. It's in the Advanced Classes.
The third item on that list is actually a two-day class: Tax and Legal, I & II. The last one is a new addition. I've had the live presentations from the instructor being in our suburban Chicago location, but I haven't take the new class yet.
So, where on BP would I find something telling me where to find all of those? Of the posts it would lead me to, how many of the posters make $1 million a year doing each one? (that is, the poster is qualified to teach others about their topic / expertise) In the case of the third item, which posters are tax and business attorneys and are also CPAs and tax accountants in active practice? (The instructor of that class holds all of those designations.)
Jay (and any other licensed RE / title / escrow professionals reading this post): do YOU know about the CFPB / RESPA settlement procedure changes coming Oct 1? We just learned about them yesterday at the workshop - three hours worth.
There is, of course, one other key topic. As I mentioned to Wendell in my reply to his post last night, "The hard part about real estate is not money or education - it's entrepreneurship."
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@David Dachtera yes I am aware of the tila respa changes after all I am a NMLS licensed mortgage banker.
its all good if people want to pay to do your deal .. fine.. I look at all of this like Wade Cooks book of the 90's and if everyone followed wades advice there would be no money left everyone would have made it all..
same with RE there can never be 100 % of your students do well .. if they did there would never be ANY deals for anyone.. plus Many folks simply don't have the personality for it and other intangible s to be successful at RE.. I was raised in it from my first memories as a child.. I have seen hundreds of agents come and go and hundreds of wanna be investors come and go... I still lean toward the creating a career.. then move into investing . And once you train to be an Agent you know the mechanics and have income. instead of spending money to learn .. you get paid to learn big difference.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Yes, once you are certified, you are called a "mentor" - you are expected to be proficient enough with what it takes to get to that point that you can either help a new person yourself, or still their questions down so a three-way call with your own mentor would not be a waste of that mentor's time.
It is also expected that you are taking your classes and learning how to mentor new investors as they start up their real estate investing business. (Kinda like BP, no?)
As to accountability, there is the judicial branch. We live in a lawsuit-happy society - don't think for one minute that someone with an axe to grind won't sue everyone from their "mentor" to Bob Snyder and Renatus.
It's interesting to note that Renatus has an A+ rating with the BBB and is *NOT* BBB "accredited" - meaning Renatus did not pay for it's rating: it EARNED that rating through it's relationship with its customers.
...and yes, I KNOW the BBB is a private entity and not related to any branch of the government or governmental body. It's still held in high regard by consumers and businesses alike, despite its being what it is.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@David Dachtera its all good if people want to pay to do your deal .. fine.. I look at all of this like Wade Cooks book of the 90's and if everyone followed wades advice there would be no money left everyone would have made it all..
Well, not quite. Remember: the gov't can print more money anytime it wants.
Even the licensing classes for professionals in all fields involve an up-front expense with "no accountability".
I like to compare the Renatus tuition to a full two years of college classes in pursuit of a degree. Interesting thing, though: college doesn't teach you how to be successful, college teaches you how to be a W2 employee. Corporations, PACs and SIGs expend buku-bux to keep it that way.
The question of " to be or not to be" a licensed agent? I've heard a lot on both sides of that topic. I'm sure it's an individual choice when someone sees an advantage either way. I actually took an IL licensing class and passed it, but never sat for the state test.
At one point, I did take classes and pass the state test to be an insurance "producer". I was recruited into Primerica, which is a TRUE MLM. Had to pay a third-party company for the classes and had to pay the state to sit for the test.
- 11yRoy N.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I have written and erased this posting several times in the past couple of days as, after reading the entire thread, I am doubtful it will be accepted in the manner intended.
@J Scott and @Jay Hinrichs both make valid points above in this thread. Both of these gentlemen give freely of their time and experience here on BP and have established a level of credibility with the community.
On the other hand yourself and @Doug Leedy do come across as more than a little passive aggressive in your ferverous defence of Renatus. A certain degree of defensiveness is understandable, BP does seem to have an anti-guru, anti-MLM, bias and Jason can be rather in-your-face when he has the bit, but in this thread - which happens to be your only real exposure to the Bigger Pockets community - I see the unwavering stance of an ideologue and not the transparency of careful consideration.
On the assumption that Renatus is more than marketing and the education and support provided is better/beyond - or even just equivalent - to what one could obtain from the local library or community college, then the most effective way to demonstrate Renatus' value proposition to those of us on BP would be by active participation in the community. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.
As for Renatus itself, it has proven extremely difficult to find factual information from the company/organisation without all of the hype and self promotion (selling hope). I read the Renatus website, watched Bob Snyder's you tube videos and several video testimonials of Renatus members. The general message I took away from all of that was "Renatus will teach me to do great things with real estate ... if I ink a cheque to them first." I was unable to find a detailed curriculum or syllabus. Given the religious/spiritual overtone of the name itself, perhaps the expectation of devout faith from enrolees is a core tenet of the organisation?
I did manage to uncover less than reassuring past business affiliations of many Renatus principals through a succession of related MLM organisations starting with Global Prosperity Group (GPG) flowing through such entities Tru Dynamics, Liberty League International and Nouveau Riche. Some of which ran afoul of regulators for essentially being little more than pyramid schemes.
I did follow-up on your mention of Renatus' BBB ranking of A+. When you read through the BBB's posted methodology of how non-accredited companies are scored - and the assumptions made - and see the BBB site shows only thee registered contacts (reviews or complaints) concerning the company, the ranking affords ample goodwill towards the organisation (essentially, you are assumed to do good, until we hear otherwise) and is statistically insignificant.
After investing an evening doing a little background work on Renatus, I still do not see clearly what you are selling, nor how it would benefit me more than seeking accredited education from a university or community college at a lesser cost?
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy you, Jason and all the denizens of BP who seem so determined to keep people away from the success they come to BP to seek.
Jason keeps asking for specifics.
What do you seek, Jason, that I did not include in my post from Aug 15, 07:20 PM? There, I contrasted Renatus with the gurus. What beyond that would it take?
I've really been trying to help you here...telling you exactly what you need to do in order to achieve what you're trying to achieve. But, it requires work, and it seems like you'd rather just argue than put in the work.
Let me explain one more time how you can achieve what you're trying to achieve here (getting people to take your program seriously)...
Instead of listing out the syllabus, throwing out names of mentors we've never heard of and telling us how much you have learned, why don't you instead provide us with some of the wisdom and expertise you've learned through your program. Answer questions with details instead of with vague responses attempting to get people to contact you "for more information."
Like I said above, people trust my advice and opinions on education (and lots of other BP member's advice and opinions on education) because we provide information that proves that the educational direction we espouse really works (at least it worked for me/us). They read our stuff and they think, "Wow, they know what they're talking about...I should listen to them when it comes to learning this stuff."
They read your stuff and think, "He's recommending this program, but his answers to actual investing questions don't make it clear that he is an expert himself. Why should we listen to him when it comes to how to get educated when it's not clear he is well educated in this stuff???"
Here's an example...
In one of your earlier posts on this site, you responded to a post asking, "How does leverage function?" Your reply was a couple sentences mentioning how your "mentor" does it and saying that he's successful at it because he's a skilled negotiator.
Here's the thread:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/20...
I've responded to several threads asking similar questions, and ultimately wrote this for those who wanted the basics:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/517/topics/18...
Now, I'm not saying a two sentence response is bad (I have plenty of those myself), but if people read your response about the basics of leverage and then read my response about the basics of leverage, who do you think they'd be more likely to trust when it comes to the question of how best to get educated?
And, for what it's worth, much of my knowledge of leverage (and every other real estate topic) has come from those people here on BP who have taken the time before me to provide this type of sage advice.
In other words, instead of telling us how much you know, why don't you demonstrate it. All the time you and Doug have spent here in this thread trying to convince us how much you've learned through your program could have been spent answering posts with information that makes people think, "Wow, this guy knows what he's talking about -- I need to ask him where he learned this stuff!!!"
Stop telling us how much you've learned from your program, and start demonstrating it.
When it comes to pushing your program, you're acting like most of the people who seek out high-priced guru education -- you really want the results, but you're not willing to put in the effort.
Put in the effort and see what happens...
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
I'm willing to bet I could charge 24k for an "education" and help folks way more than a Renatus education would. I sat through the pitch, I read the reviews, etc. The fact that you guys publicly BASH BP in your videos trying to discredit threads like this is just sad. Which makes me wonder why are you even here?
You know what made me decide not to waste my time or money? The person attempting to recruit me had never actually applied any of the material you guys taught in their own life. Ontop of that in the "pitch" if you "just want to do Real Estate with us" is mentioned negatively. As a Real Estate company shouldn't that be your main goal???
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Ryan Dossey BP is just an open forum with a bunch of folks giving their personal opinions
No need to bash the site.. they monitor stuff but mainly to keep self promotion out so they can charge to be a pro member.. someone has to pay for the lights.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
"But, it requires work, and it seems like you'd rather just argue than put in the work."
You're talking about yourself, Jason. I don't come here to argue, you and Jan Hinrichs do. Then, I have to come in behind you, clean up your mess, correct the falsehoods you put forth and set the record straight. It must really gall you that all you can do is be negative, nay-say and call Renatus something it isn't.
So, for the broader audience, let me translate your last post:
"Dachtera is a 'low-time' investor. His opinions and knowledge are worthless. Listen to me (J Scott) because I'm good, I'm great, I'm experienced, I have a following, people seek me out for my tutelage and mentorship and pay money to read my e-book."
OH! I get it now, you're looking for testimonials!
Well, they're on the MyRenatus website, but since I can't post the link here, I'll have to tell my group's stories in my own words.
Let's start with Bob Tierney, one of the partners who founded the suburban Chicago group. He was a remodeling contractor who got tired of making $10,000 or less on a job while the investors who hired him to work on their investment properties profited hundreds of thousands. He has not only established himself as a sought-after expert on historic restoration - the City of Elgin has given him multiple grants to restore not only his own home but two investment properties in his neighborhood - he is continuing to do historic restorations in upscale suburbs northwest of Chicago. His most recent remodel sold for $110K profit to a buyer who is an experienced investor and is now part of the group.
Then, there's Scott Huminsky - 25-year construction carpenter out of work due to the crash. He was about to lose his home when he bought his education. During the following 13 months, he studied his classes and took the "Building Business Credit" class that Bob Tierney teaches. He founded his business entity, got $85K in business credit and used $81K of it to acquire his first rehab. The roof had been leaking for years - the mold was inches thick in the drywall and ceiling fans looked like upside-down tulips (the pictures are on the web somewhere, I think). He put $105K into it, paid himself $22K during the rehab, held an open house when it was done and received an offer of $569K that very day. Net profit: $133K. His second project was in the historic district of Joliet, IL known as "the Cathedral Area". Net profit there $85K. He is currently working with a VA related program to provide housing for homeless veterans near where they receive treatment for injuries, PTSD, etc. When finished, his business will have government-guaranteed income of $18K a month for 15 years.
Jean Powers - former executive, laid off from a $300K+/ year job. Took her classes and she and her partners recently acquired a portfolio of 35 tax-delinquent properties for $31K. Two have redeemed, she sold two (without rehab or fix!) for $175K total. She plans on making circa. $5 Million total when the entire portfolio has been liquidated.
So... does THAT satisfy your requirements?
... or is it more important to you to argue, bash Renatus, call out @Doug Leedy and myself for not meeting your expectations, nay-say, be negative, ...
If you're going to keep harping, "...but what have YOU done?", go read my profile. The answers are there. Someone else mentioned transparency - that's about as transparent as it gets.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes11y
Originally posted by :
OH! I get it now, you're looking for testimonials!
Nope, you clearly don't get it. I never asked for testimonials. Not once. Testimonials are meaningless...
I'm simply explaining to you that the reason that you (and by extension, your organization) aren't taken seriously around here, is that you haven't provided any value to anyone here. And I've provided some suggestions on how you can be taken more seriously...if you're willing to work for it.
You probably just spent 20-30 minute writing that response. Had you taken that 20-30 minutes and spent it writing a post that provided some good information about REAL ESTATE INVESTING, perhaps people would take you more seriously. But, you haven't provided any good information on this forum about real estate investing...you are simply trying to advertise, and you're not a good marketer, based on this thread.
Again, you're just like those who you are trying to recruit -- you want to achieve something (recruit people to your program), but you're not willing to work for it (provide value here so people choose to seek you out).
That's your choice. You are perfectly welcome to spend time posting on this forum and getting nothing out of it, if you so choose...
