Listing Agents getting in the way of GOOD DEALS!
Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes
Listing Agents getting in the way of GOOD DEALS!
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Real Estate Agent 路 Villa Rica, GA 路 Member since 2017 路 38 posts 路 28 votes
9y@Neil Da Silva I can almost guarantee you that the list price has nothing to do with the listing agent. Some clients have unrealistic expectations of what their property is worth, and would rather it sit on the market than take a lower price. If they are in no hurry to sell, it may be best to just move on.
28 Replies
- Real Estate Agent 路 Villa Rica, GA 路 Member since 2017 路 38 posts 路 28 votes9y@Neil Da Silva I can almost guarantee you that the list price has nothing to do with the listing agent. Some clients have unrealistic expectations of what their property is worth, and would rather it sit on the market than take a lower price. If they are in no hurry to sell, it may be best to just move on.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Jennifer Jacobs:
@Neil Da Silva I can almost guarantee you that the list price has nothing to do with the listing agent. Some clients have unrealistic expectations of what their property is worth, and would rather it sit on the market than take a lower price. If they are in no hurry to sell, it may be best to just move on.Thanks Jennifer, I figured that as well. I'm not one to dwell on deals and get emotional however I also am not one two give up after the first no. I want to be persistent and would like some proven strategies on how to do so, successfully!
Thanks again!
- 9yPeter MckernanBusiness MemberResidential Real Estate Agent 路 Irvine, CA 路 Member since 2013 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
I agree with @Jennifer Jacobs about the sellers holding the listing agent back. It can be twofold. The agent can be giving the sellers false hope to pull a lot more money out of the deal than what can be taken out of it, or the sellers have their eyes out of the range of reality. Either case, you may not be getting through to the sellers/agent since they are priced so high out of ballpark they may take any offer you submit as an insult, or not even listen to you.
There will come a time where the sellers get the right buyer(s), or have to drop the price to meet the market rate; because the market is the market is the market. You cannot sell a home for more than the market rate if market rate is lower than ask. This maybe a great deal, but I suggest to keep your eyes on it and look for other deals in the meantime.
The McKernan Group4.957 Reviews - Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Peter Mckernan:
I agree with @Jennifer Jacobs about the sellers holding the listing agent back. It can be twofold. The agent can be giving the sellers false hope to pull a lot more money out of the deal than what can be taken out of it, or the sellers have their eyes out of the range of reality. Either case, you may not be getting through to the sellers/agent since they are priced so high out of ballpark they may take any offer you submit as an insult, or not even listen to you.
There will come a time where the sellers get the right buyer(s), or have to drop the price to meet the market rate; because the market is the market is the market. You cannot sell a home for more than the market rate if market rate is lower than ask. This maybe a great deal, but I suggest to keep your eyes on it and look for other deals in the meantime.
Thanks Peter!
Ya, my thoughts were the same when I took a look a the property. Been on the market for almost 2 years they have changed pricing 4 times, both lowering and raising the listing price. I know eventually the seller, who is an older gentlemen's in his 70s, will have no choice but to sell at market rate, however I want to ensure that sale is to ME!
- 9yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI 路 Member since 2013 路 13k+ posts 路 19k+ votes
Originally posted by @Neil Da Silva:
Hey guys,
I've been noticing that many listing agents are not doing their jobs and not representing their sellers appropriately. For example, I have a current deal where the listing agent is extremely difficult to get a hold of and to return a phone call. I have made great offers however the sellers and listing agent are delusional about their asking price. They are 50k over market value which has left their property on the market for over a year almost 2 years.
You are making too many assumptions, not the least of which is you are right and they are wrong. You are BOTH right...you just don't agree with eachother. That doesn't make the "seller's agent" into the villain. That "projected" $50k over you say they are, could be because that is their required minimum due to extenuating circumstances...like an outstanding debt on the property.
Do you guys have any tips on how to break through to the seller?
I wouldn't bother. Let your REA handle it. They wouldn't take your call anyway. Their lack of reply could actually be your answer...you're too low, and they're not even interested in making you a counter. They could very well have other offers better than yours and have been spending their time there instead.
I got their info from the tax records so I'm going to send the sellers a letter. What should I include in my correspondence? Should I type it or hand write it? What should I write to gauge the sellers attention?
This is what your REA is for. Maybe the one that is dropping the ball is your Agent, not their Agent.
Thanks for the help BIGGERPOCKETS!
- 9yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR庐 路 Brockport, NY 路 Member since 2015 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
Hi @Neil Da Silva,
Were your offers fully written up and including POF etc? If not try that because it is harder to turn down a full ready to go offer than a verbal one. Next thing I would try is to put a nice long Life of offer on it. So give them 2 or 3 weeks to mull it over as opposed to a 24 hour one. On a hot property use a short one so they have to commit, on a property that has been on the market for 2 years, go ahead and give them time. I would guess the seller is not really motivated so time pressure won't work. However sometime during the next 2 weeks they may just decide to dump it.
Keep in mind the agent is going to be shopping your offer around for 2 weeks, but hopefully if something else comes in they give you a chance to up it. Since it has been on for 2 years they may have no one serious. Keep in mind though they may have someone else that has a standing offer. If you two are in the same ballpark, they may decide to put you two into a bidding war.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:
Hi @Neil Da Silva,
Were your offers fully written up and including POF etc? If not try that because it is harder to turn down a full ready to go offer than a verbal one. Next thing I would try is to put a nice long Life of offer on it. So give them 2 or 3 weeks to mull it over as opposed to a 24 hour one. On a hot property use a short one so they have to commit, on a property that has been on the market for 2 years, go ahead and give them time. I would guess the seller is not really motivated so time pressure won't work. However sometime during the next 2 weeks they may just decide to dump it.
Keep in mind the agent is going to be shopping your offer around for 2 weeks, but hopefully if something else comes in they give you a chance to up it. Since it has been on for 2 years they may have no one serious. Keep in mind though they may have someone else that has a standing offer. If you two are in the same ballpark, they may decide to put you two into a bidding war.
Thanks Mike, that's great advice I'm gonna try.
I've heard of people successfully hand writing letters to sellers including pictures of themselves and being warm and heartfelt in the personal letter! Does this work ???? The seller is an older man, I assume he wants out I just need to convince to do it with me!
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
Originally posted by @Neil Da Silva:
Hey guys,
I've been noticing that many listing agents are not doing their jobs and not representing their sellers appropriately. For example, I have a current deal where the listing agent is extremely difficult to get a hold of and to return a phone call. I have made great offers however the sellers and listing agent are delusional about their asking price. They are 50k over market value which has left their property on the market for over a year almost 2 years.
You are making too many assumptions, not the least of which is you are right and they are wrong. You are BOTH right...you just don't agree with eachother. That doesn't make the "seller's agent" into the villain. That "projected" $50k over you say they are, could be because that is their required minimum due to extenuating circumstances...like an outstanding debt on the property.
Do you guys have any tips on how to break through to the seller?
I wouldn't bother. Let your REA handle it. They wouldn't take your call anyway. Their lack of reply could actually be your answer...you're too low, and they're not even interested in making you a counter. They could very well have other offers better than yours and have been spending their time there instead.
I got their info from the tax records so I'm going to send the sellers a letter. What should I include in my correspondence? Should I type it or hand write it? What should I write to gauge the sellers attention?
This is what your REA is for. Maybe the one that is dropping the ball is your Agent, not their Agent.
Thanks for the help BIGGERPOCKETS!
Joe, thanks for the info.
I've been countered at asking price.
Good info!
- Investor 路 La Vernia, TX 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 865 votes9y
Howdy @Neil Da Silva
I like sending hand written follow up letters. In your case I would not keep beating my head against the brick wall. Just have your agent tag it for future status changes and move on. Once a quarter you can send a pleasant follow up letter restating your interest if you want.
Bottom line is you have your price... they have theirs... no deal ... move on to the next opportunity.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @John Leavelle:
Howdy @Neil Da Silva
I like sending hand written follow up letters. In your case I would not keep beating my head against the brick wall. Just have your agent tag it for future status changes and move on. Once a quarter you can send a pleasant follow up letter restating your interest if you want.
Bottom line is you have your price... they have theirs... no deal ... move on to the next opportunity.
Ya, I hear ya'.
I'm going to have my agent present my best and final and if they take it great if not, On to the next!
Its a great property, 6 units in total, potential for serious rent increases, the added value is considerable. With that said I will take that into consideration in my best and final!
Thanks!
- Real Estate Investor 路 Encinitas, CA 路 Member since 2016 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes9yNeil Da Silva I'm just guessing here but a picture and hand-written letter probably won't help a property that's been on the market for 2 years. You may also be staring at the MLS version of Zillow's "Make Me Move". Not to mention in an increasing market they could be content to *try* and wait until the market catches up to their price. Why would an agent do that? For two years? Who knows. For what it's worth, it sounds like you're more emotional about buying than they are about selling. Make your "best and final" and move on. Check-in with them in 30 days, 90 days, etc. Odds are the property won't have sold.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:
Neil Da Silva I'm just guessing here but a picture and hand-written letter probably won't help a property that's been on the market for 2 years. You may also be staring at the MLS version of Zillow's "Make Me Move". Not to mention in an increasing market they could be content to *try* and wait until the market catches up to their price. Why would an agent do that? For two years? Who knows. For what it's worth, it sounds like you're more emotional about buying than they are about selling. Make your "best and final" and move on. Check-in with them in 30 days, 90 days, etc. Odds are the property won't have sold.
Agreed, that's what I'm going to do!
thanks!
- Investor 路 Willow Spring, NC 路 Member since 2009 路 5k+ posts 路 3k+ votes9y
Is this property in the US? For this post, I'll assume yes.
You say it is a 6 unit property. Are you already qualified from a commercial lender? And you have shown your POF and pre-qual letter to the seller's agent, right? You won't be able to walk into just any bank and say 'I want to buy a 6 unit' because the majority of banks originate and sell their loans to a GSE. So they can't finance your 'deal'. I'd bet the seller's agent knows this. The seller may well tell their agent to ignore any offer without some lender vetting of the buyer, especially with a 5+ unit property. BTW, I do exactly this, giving my broker instructions to ignore posers and lookie-loos w/o solid documented buyer capability, when selling property through a broker.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
Is this property in the US? For this post, I'll assume yes.
You say it is a 6 unit property. Are you already qualified from a commercial lender? And you have shown your POF and pre-qual letter to the seller's agent, right? You won't be able to walk into just any bank and say 'I want to buy a 6 unit' because the majority of banks originate and sell their loans to a GSE. So they can't finance your 'deal'. I'd bet the seller's agent knows this. The seller may well tell their agent to ignore any offer without some lender vetting of the buyer, especially with a 5+ unit property. BTW, I do exactly this, giving my broker instructions to ignore posers and lookie-loos w/o solid documented buyer capability, when selling property through a broker.
Very valid point! The Answer is yes the pre approval process has been done 馃榿!
Going back in with best and final and moving on! Thanks for the input
- Investor 路 Willow Spring, NC 路 Member since 2009 路 5k+ posts 路 3k+ votes9y
To answer your question, I've seen overpriced property that 'hangs around' for a long time. Sometimes over a year. I just submit an offer again... sometimes 6 months later. This method may not work in some markets or some properties. But I've made it work before on pretty reasonable terms (in other words the seller capitulated.)
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
To answer your question, I've seen overpriced property that 'hangs around' for a long time. Sometimes over a year. I just submit an offer again... sometimes 6 months later. This method may not work in some markets or some properties. But I've made it work before on pretty reasonable terms (in other words the seller capitulated.)
Chris what tactics do you recommend? Simply sending letters every 6 months? What does your letter consist of?
Thanks!
- Investor 路 Willow Spring, NC 路 Member since 2009 路 5k+ posts 路 3k+ votes9y
If it is listed with a broker, I just tell the broker to call me in the seller's mind changes. If it's not, I send a letter. I'll maybe send another letter 6-8 months later, but only checking with public record to see if ownership is still the same.
The letter basically says I buy with cash. I say I can close quickly if their title is clear and will work with their attorney if it isn't. Simple sentences. To the point. No pressure. Almost all my offers lately are on land parcels of 20 to 100 acres. On some, I tell them why my offer is low (generally because it is partly in a flood plain or has size irregularities or perc issues... )
- Real Estate Agent 路 Souderton, PA 路 Member since 2016 路 591 posts 路 414 votes9yI can assure you the agent is not the one holding you back. They don't get paid until it sells, right? Chances are the sellers are holding firm. Also, remember that a listing agents job, and even more importantly it's the fiduciary duty to have the sellers best interests in mind. So not accepting your offer $50k less than asking is not only what they are be paid to do, they are required to. I'm not saying it's not worth less, I'm just saying they are doing their job by trying to get the seller the most money they can. If I were their agent, I'd suggest reducing the price, maybe 10-20k to see what the market does. Then probably 30-40k and again seeing if any buyers bite, before I would just give in and accept your offer of $50k less. So I share this with you so you can maybe take the sellers perspective of how this deal is going down and how they might handle it moving forward. I'm not telling this to discourage you or change your price in anyway. You have you price, stand firm, but you can't fault them for having their price and doing the same. Let's all be honest here.....we make out money when we buy right, don't we? If we buy right that means the sellers are leaving money on the table, right? We don't do it maliciously, we do it a solve a problem they might have. If a seller doesn't have a problem, they have no reason to sell for less than they think it's worth, or for less than it is actually worth for that matter. I think you need to move on and find a seller with a bleeding neck instead of a sore thumb.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
If it is listed with a broker, I just tell the broker to call me in the seller's mind changes. If it's not, I send a letter. I'll maybe send another letter 6-8 months later, but only checking with public record to see if ownership is still the same.
The letter basically says I buy with cash. I say I can close quickly if their title is clear and will work with their attorney if it isn't. Simple sentences. To the point. No pressure. Almost all my offers lately are on land parcels of 20 to 100 acres. On some, I tell them why my offer is low (generally because it is partly in a flood plain or has size irregularities or perc issues... )
Great info I will definitely do this.
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @William C.:
I can assure you the agent is not the one holding you back. They don't get paid until it sells, right? Chances are the sellers are holding firm. Also, remember that a listing agents job, and even more importantly it's the fiduciary duty to have the sellers best interests in mind. So not accepting your offer $50k less than asking is not only what they are be paid to do, they are required to. I'm not saying it's not worth less, I'm just saying they are doing their job by trying to get the seller the most money they can.
If I were their agent, I'd suggest reducing the price, maybe 10-20k to see what the market does. Then probably 30-40k and again seeing if any buyers bite, before I would just give in and accept your offer of $50k less. So I share this with you so you can maybe take the sellers perspective of how this deal is going down and how they might handle it moving forward. I'm not telling this to discourage you or change your price in anyway. You have you price, stand firm, but you can't fault them for having their price and doing the same. Let's all be honest here.....we make out money when we buy right, don't we? If we buy right that means the sellers are leaving money on the table, right? We don't do it maliciously, we do it a solve a problem they might have. If a seller doesn't have a problem, they have no reason to sell for less than they think it's worth, or for less than it is actually worth for that matter. I think you need to move on and find a seller with a bleeding neck instead of a sore thumb.
Makes sense! I'll be giving them my best and final and moving on. Will followup periodically!
Thanks for all the info.
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant 路 Summerlin, NV 路 Member since 2014 路 45k+ posts 路 66k+ votes
@Chris Martin whats the land play your working on.. are these for housing tracks ??
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Chris Martin whats the land play your working on.. are these for housing tracks ??
Veteran JAY HINRICHS in the housee!
What's up man!?
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant 路 Summerlin, NV 路 Member since 2014 路 45k+ posts 路 66k+ votes
@Neil Da Silva sorry to highjack your thread.. I was curious what Chris was working on.
as for unrealistic sellers. I think your doing all you can do.
if the property is local then go over and introduce your self.
When i was in the Timber business ... this was the norm.. it took us 3 months to 5 years or more to talk a timber owner into selling us their timber... we just dripped them to death... my partner would always say as long as the trees are still standing its a potential deal for us. :) We door knocked them... brought them Salmon ( fresh in Season) smoked if not.... Elk steaks Elk Jerky.. these are all trigger points for Oregonian timber owners...
now maybe there is a little something you could send their way so they remember you !!!
- Investor 路 Toronto, Ontario 路 Member since 2017 路 116 posts 路 20 votes9y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Neil Da Silva sorry to highjack your thread.. I was curious what Chris was working on.
as for unrealistic sellers. I think your doing all you can do.
if the property is local then go over and introduce your self.
When i was in the Timber business ... this was the norm.. it took us 3 months to 5 years or more to talk a timber owner into selling us their timber... we just dripped them to death... my partner would always say as long as the trees are still standing its a potential deal for us. :) We door knocked them... brought them Salmon ( fresh in Season) smoked if not.... Elk steaks Elk Jerky.. these are all trigger points for Oregonian timber owners...
now maybe there is a little something you could send their way so they remember you !!!
Amazing! Great advice. I will definitely send them something, now what do Floridians love????????
- Investor 路 Greenville, SC 路 Member since 2016 路 5k+ posts 路 13k+ votes9y
There is a difference between being listed for sale and being for sale.
Finding a sellers motivations and needs and trying to solve them is always wise as is avoiding any negative dialogue towards their price. Time will tell...some unreasonable sellers become reasonable when they truly have to sell (or when they encounter someone they are interested in selling to).
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