25 units at 24 years old - What I've learned

25 units at 24 years old - What I've learned

Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes

Last week, I closed on a triplex and my portfolio hit 25 units, and I wanted to share what I've learned in the hope that it may help some investors who are starting out (both young and old). This deal:

Purchase Price: $162,500

Rehab required: $10,000

ARV: 220,000

Monthly rents: $2,800

My monthly cash flow will likely total ~$350, depending on what I ultimately get for rents. I'll probably leave about $10,000 in the building after I refinance, which is more than I'd like but still makes it a good deal (for my criteria). 

Anyways, what I've learned:

- Start networking with private money lenders immediately. Even if you plan to use conventional financing for your first deal or two, you'll never be able to effectively scale and consistently close on great deals if you don't use private financing. In today's market, you just can't consistently compete (if you are looking to do a number of deals in a short amount of time) using traditional financing. When meeting with private lenders, bring sample deals that would be an example of what you'd pitch them so you can truly evaluate what caliber of deals you will need to find to secure financing.

- Start focusing on equity, not cash flow. Of course, it is essential to analyze cash flow when evaluating a potential buy and hold investment, however, I've found that the best investors are the ones who focus on leaving minimal cash in deals (and buying with equity on the front end). Stop focusing on dollars a month in cash flow, and start worrying about how much below market you are buying the property at and what your cash on cash return will be (as a %). I own properties where I make $50/door in cash flow, some people may laugh at that, but I have no money in the deal (infinite return).

- Despite the goal of not leaving cash in deals, you'll have a hard time responsibly closing on deals if you don't have cash in the bank (closing costs, inspections during due diligence, paying contractors after you close, dealing with unforeseen problems). With that being said, if you truly don't have money in the bank, focus on increasing your income before trying to figure out how to buy real estate with truly no money down.

- Always buy with your exit in mind (even if you plan to hold long term). I recently had difficulty selling the first property I bought because it had an undersized septic tank and a dug well servicing the building (not a drilled well). As a result, it didn't qualify for FHA/VA/conventional financing and my buyer pool shrunk significantly. While I ended up finding a buyer, my selling price took a serious hit (learning experience!).

- Focus on getting in the game. Don't feel the need to hit a home run on your first deal.. a single or double is better than sitting on the sidelines. If you're young and can't get conventional financing, use commercial financing. Most of my 2-4 unit properties are financed with commercial loans because I won't qualify for a traditional 30 year, fixed-rate mortgages.. sure the terms are worse but it's better than not owning property.

Best of luck to everyone!

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Peter TverdovBusiness Member
Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but you're equity stripping everything, leaving your cash flow dangerously thin on already tiny properties at this point in time of the real estate cycle when rates are increasing and we've seen a 10 year run? I hope you're LTVs are 60-70% on those refis and not 75-80%. What is your plan when commercial loans re-set in 5 years and the rates are 7%? Your $50 or even $350 a month cash flows will go south in a damn hurry. 

I'm going to venture a guess you have little to no real reserves (credit is not a reserve) and that you haven't factored in what happens if rental markets get soft or drop.

What could go wrong being mortgaged to death? 

See this reply in the discussion

143 Replies

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  • Realtor · Cypress, CA · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 14 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson This Is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing.
  • Real Estate Broker · Windsor, CT · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    7y

    Wow that awesome! Congratulations on your continued success! 

  • Whitman, MA · Member since 2018 · 104 posts · 80 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Congratulations!
  • Jeff LanghamBusiness Member
    Realtor · Carmel-By-The-Sea, CA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Congratulations Axel!

    Jeff Langham, MBA, Realtor®518 Reviews
  • Littleton, CO · Member since 2017 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Aarron Light , I'm with you 100%. Equity can dry up in a rough market and/or **** can hit the fan unexpectedly with repairs or losses not covered by insurance. Without having good cash flow to help absorb those situations, people had damn well better have a lot of cash on hand or in savings to draw against. If you have a portfolio of 10 properties netting a combined cash flow of only $1,000, the rental market has a several month hiccup where you have 3 vacant units, all of which have turnover costs, and the housing market has come down (eating up your equity), are you able to comfortably float the mortgages, repair costs, etc. while you wait to get new tenants in there? It's a risky move. Being just equity-focused could quickly cost you not only properties but also reputation with investors. I have 5 SFR with a mortgage, tax and insurance cost of $3k/month. My rents bring in $5k/month. Even cash flowing $2k/month leaves me nervous. It's pretty safe, but certainly not all-weather safe. I'd be a nervous wreck if I had a $3k nut with only $3k in rents. I'd have no ability to sustain an 18-month soft market combined with a basement flooding and a failed furnace or roof. That's just my $0.02, but I value being able to sleep at night.

  • Rental Property Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y

    Great advice! thanks for sharing!

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2016 · 589 posts · 275 votes
    7y

    Congrats on your success man !!

  • Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson What happens when the market changes and housing prices drop and your thin margin and high leverage puts you in a bad position? You have to calculate for risk. Most investors don’t.
  • Member since 2018 · 79 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    There is always pro’s and con’s in everything. Taking action decisively after weighing the pro’s and con’s is the most important deal. 

  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y
    @Erica Raby If you buy anything with cash and you can get any lender to lend you cash against the item, then you are refinancing out to get your cash back
  • Real Estate Agent · Renton, WA · Member since 2017 · 204 posts · 151 votes
    7y

    Congrats!! Thanks for sharing your experience and insight on what you've learned.  Keep it up @Axel Ragnarsson

  • Dixon, CA · Member since 2013 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Thank you for your outline in building that pipeline of private money lenders.
  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Awesome bro. 33 here with 60 doors. Its a beautiful thing to be aggressive and just get as many doors as possible. Leverage is the real power in real estate but if you have a clear goal of ho much you want to net a month...double it. Now diversify and pay off some of it. I dont know your liquidity but if a market adjustment or anythingnhappens to our economy as good as it is now would put you in the negative..can you weather the storm? I know the cash on cash is reduced and its annoying but once cashflow gets to a point where your comfortably living ,whats the difference between 25 or 2000 doors. Ill take the 25 paid off than being overleveraged at the mercy of powers outside of my own. Mix it up a bit. You are an example brother thank you for sharing your success and method.
  • Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Axel Ragnarsson Many congratulations! I enjoy seeing other young guys doing well. I would absolutely love to swap ideas with you. Again, keep up the good work. Love it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 56 posts · 17 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Awesome testimonial and congrats on your business. I believe your suggestions and situations are unique to your area so kudos to you knowing your market well. I personally feel that cashflow wins over appreciation at least at this early stage of my business. In Houston, Tx appreciation values have been a bit out of the norm in the 10%+ Range but historically it’s been in the 5%. For my properties I have here focusing on cashflow has worked well. In say Los Angeles where I also own property it’s common to own property that cashflows negatively but with the appreciation values being so great some areas 20% per year, I find focusing appreciation values being the best strategy.
  • Rental Property Investor · Montréal, QC · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 4 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Good stuff! Congrats and great advice!
  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    7y
    @Roy Johnson my primary residence has a dug well. In order to find financing I had to find an out of state lender. It will likely be a pain to sell down the road because of this.
  • Rental Property Investor · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    The tortoise wins the race, that my philosophy just keep doing the right thing. 

  • Lewisville, TX · Member since 2015 · 341 posts · 264 votes
    7y
    @Scott Fromowtiz Not just the Bay Area. Dfw is terrible as is most of TX!
  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Thanks for the words of advice. I’m right on the threshold of pulling the trigger and I just need to do it and get in. Also, congrats on hitting 25 doors! Any advice on how to start networking with private lenders? LinkedIn? Googling? REI meetups? Thanks, -Chris Yeakel
  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Axel Ragnarsson:

    Last week, I closed on a triplex and my portfolio hit 25 units, and I wanted to share what I've learned in the hope that it may help some investors who are starting out (both young and old). This deal:

    Purchase Price: $162,500

    Rehab required: $10,000

    ARV: 220,000

    Monthly rents: $2,800

    My monthly cash flow will likely total ~$350, depending on what I ultimately get for rents. I'll probably leave about $10,000 in the building after I refinance, which is more than I'd like but still makes it a good deal (for my criteria). 

    Anyways, what I've learned:

    - Start networking with private money lenders immediately. Even if you plan to use conventional financing for your first deal or two, you'll never be able to effectively scale and consistently close on great deals if you don't use private financing. In today's market, you just can't consistently compete (if you are looking to do a number of deals in a short amount of time) using traditional financing. When meeting with private lenders, bring sample deals that would be an example of what you'd pitch them so you can truly evaluate what caliber of deals you will need to find to secure financing.

    - Start focusing on equity, not cash flow. Of course, it is essential to analyze cash flow when evaluating a potential buy and hold investment, however, I've found that the best investors are the ones who focus on leaving minimal cash in deals (and buying with equity on the front end). Stop focusing on dollars a month in cash flow, and start worrying about how much below market you are buying the property at and what your cash on cash return will be (as a %). I own properties where I make $50/door in cash flow, some people may laugh at that, but I have no money in the deal (infinite return).

    - Despite the goal of not leaving cash in deals, you'll have a hard time responsibly closing on deals if you don't have cash in the bank (closing costs, inspections during due diligence, paying contractors after you close, dealing with unforeseen problems). With that being said, if you truly don't have money in the bank, focus on increasing your income before trying to figure out how to buy real estate with truly no money down.

    - Always buy with your exit in mind (even if you plan to hold long term). I recently had difficulty selling the first property I bought because it had an undersized septic tank and a dug well servicing the building (not a drilled well). As a result, it didn't qualify for FHA/VA/conventional financing and my buyer pool shrunk significantly. While I ended up finding a buyer, my selling price took a serious hit (learning experience!).

    - Focus on getting in the game. Don't feel the need to hit a home run on your first deal.. a single or double is better than sitting on the sidelines. If you're young and can't get conventional financing, use commercial financing. Most of my 2-4 unit properties are financed with commercial loans because I won't qualify for a traditional 30 year, fixed-rate mortgages.. sure the terms are worse but it's better than not owning property.

    Best of luck to everyone!

     Your last tip is one I’ve given people 100x and is spot on. 

    You’re ahead of where I was at your age. And when I hit 40 I had 1000 units and was “done” (except I like it too much to stop). You’re going to be amazed at how good deals start accelerating into more good deals. 

    Best of luck to you!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark M.:

    Congrats on your success and at such a young age.  Kudos!  But sounds like you live in a low cost of living area.

    Move to the San Francisco Bay Area and see if you an replicate your results.  Can you get a loan for $1-2MM?  Do you have a mountain of cash to perform even the most minor of renovations.  Even the immigrant central Americans (El Salvadoreans/Guatemalans) are buying new cars here they make so much cash!!

    No way no how to get a good multi deal here in San Francisco.  That ship sailed in the 90s (or if you were super lucky and bribed your way into a deal 2009-2010). 

    But, I can surf in the morning, mountain bike in the afternoon, and ski at night.  Pros and cons I suppose.  

    Maybe if there's another downturn I can find a couple multis - currently sitting on a pile of cash.  But for now I'm content running my professional services business which nets me close to 7 figures for a 3-day week.  Maybe RE isn't for me (despite Bigger Pockets clickbait emails saying it's so so easy).   

     Living in San Diego I can surf in the morning, mountain bike in the day and ski at night. Downside is I couldn’t do multifamly here with any success. 

    So know what I did? Invested else where (Houston).  You’re being a bit negative towards his accomplishments. No offense but you come off as the typical somewhat snobbish Bay Area guy. 

  • Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing!

  • Real Estate Agent · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 22 votes
    7y

    Congrats on your success! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Montgomery, AL · Member since 2017 · 277 posts · 221 votes
    7y

    Congratulations man. Currently 22 and have 6 under my belt. Goal is to have 50 units by 25 and already know the biggest challenge is going to be finding the financing. Any recommendations on where to find Private Lenders? Only been able to find and talk with two hard money lenders in my town so far and am struggling to find where these guys hang out so that I can talk with them.

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