Why is Lumber so Expensive?

Why is Lumber so Expensive?

John LyszczykPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Marine City, MI · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 230 votes

I noticed some BiggerPockets members asking about the rising cost in lumber and plywood, and given my background, I figured I wood (haha) weigh in on this subject. I currently work for a lumber company and I primarily sell to retail lumber yards, distributors, office wholesalers (jobbers) and General Contractors (GCs). We own several sawmills and treating facilties mainly in the midwest, but our services branch out nation wide. I primarily focus on a specific category called fire-retardant treated wood, which is found in all type 3 and 5 construction. This mostly entails the construction of multifamily housing, hospitals, schools, etc. However, I am exposed to different parts of the lumber business through one way or another.

Over the past few months we have experienced something that I have heard several veteran lumber traders call "unimaginable". Lumber and plywood pricing has sky rocketed to concerning levels.  GCs that were plan on framing this fall are already postponing construction until the market corrects itself. That means large multifamily and residential building is in a nationwide lull, and it's hard to say how long this will last. Below is my best (short) synopsis of how we got here today and how this effects us as Real Estate Investors.

The issues stemmed from the COVID shutdowns back in March when most construction projects were told to halt. The shutdowns did not include sawmills and treaters as we were deemed "essential" however, uncertainty lurked throughout the industry and many companies decided to lay off employees. Sawmills and treaters cut laborers to compensate for the anticipated lack of consumption and uncertainty within the business. 

Meanwhile, over 20 million people in America were gainfully unemployed as our lovely government started quantitative easing. Many of these Americans were making more money sitting at home on unemployment than actually working at their job they were "furloughed" from. This later made it difficult for sawmills and treaters to hire back a labor force. A large population of the country was forced into quarantine with a lot of time on their hands. In addition, they were given some bonus money (stimulus), and many people decided they wanted to build a deck. Seriously...it seemed like everyone in America decided to build a deck all at once.

The consumption started at the big box stores (Lowes, Home Depot, Menards) and Pressure Treated wood became the hottest commodity in the market. East coast building material suppliers and lumber yards were calling west coast treaters for Pressure Treated wood, and suppliers were buying it. Meanwhile, the big box stores started soaking up all the available fiber source in efforts to meet the growing demand. Order files extended  and suddenly the sawmills had to start producing more lumber and plywood. They slowly started their labor force back up and worked to meet demand, but little progress was made to increase supply.

Industry experts now grew concerned about the penned up demand from the construction shutdown. Just as the supply became scarce from the Pressure Treated lumber surge, construction started coming back as COVID restrictions were lifted. General contractors for large projects needed wood to continue and meet deadlines. As you can imagine, this generated more consumption as the growing demand cripple what was left of the existing supply. As a manufacturer, trader, or supplier, if you had wood on the ground you could sell for a PREMIUM. One year ago, the average price for general framing lumber was $2.88 per piece FOB the sawmill (composite average). Today, it is $6.56 per piece FOB the sawmill (composite average). One year ago, a truck of treated plywood cost $20,000, and today it costs $40,000. Prices have double the normal averages in just a matter of months. 

The craziest part is that there is no sign of it correcting itself anytime soon. It may be until the end of the year until we see some sort of market correction. Sawmill order files are extended out to October, but the buying still continues. PTS (Price at time of Shipment) orders are becoming more common. The demand isn't going away and everyone is growing more uncertain amid the record breaking run. 

What does this mean for Real Estate Investors? 

Most likely delayed projects and obviously the cost of building materials are going to rise. If you have a large renovation project you may want to evaluate your cost of materials before getting started. I can only imagine having to do a massive renovation project or addition that requires framing lumber. Yikes! 

The rising costs are mostly hurting new build residential and commercial construction. As for the projects expected to start in the fall, many GCs are shelving them until the start of the new year with hopes for improved purchasing conditions.

I would be curious to hear from other members to see if they have felt the impact of rising building material costs. I know that was long winded, but I hope it was insightful.  
  

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Cody Muth:

@John Lyszczyk

John,

Where do you currently see lumber prices at and where would you say prices are headed?

I’ve talked to builders that are saying they’re seeing prices coming back down but a buddy of mine works in management at 84 lumber and he’s saying they’re only rising and suspects lumber will continue to keep rising in price... I’m located in NC

What are your thoughts?

Thanks

I have 15 new constructions going right now.. so lumber is on our radar..  lumber packages including truss's were running 20 to 28k pre this run up now they are 45 to 60k.. I raised the price of my homes by 50k..  And buyers understand.. so we set the price so if lumber comes back to earth we will still keep the pricing and hopefully will pick up some delta.. 

One of the causes of lumber prices on west coast is the Tarrifs  this has been going on for a few decades.. I was a Log Supplier here in Oregon for about a decade the market moves constantly.. and there has been a ton of consolidation in the industry along with closing of some mills.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Agent · Burlington, KY · Member since 2018 · 207 posts · 232 votes
    5y

    I've got some contractor friends that have gotten out of doing deck work for the very reason that lumber costs are sky high right now and also incredibly hard to get. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Lyszczyk:
    Originally posted by @Jaquetta T Ragland:

    @John Lyszczyk my husband was just telling me about this a few days ago...that wood prices have increased. Question, does your company buy wood from individuals who are clearing wooded lots...I always wondered how that worked?

    Hey Jaquetta,

    Most of the time our company is harvesting trees from land that we own, commercial lands and various public lands. We focus on procuring two primary species of lumber: SPF and SYP. These are commonly used species in construction here in the Midwest as they are the easiest to acquire. My company has a team of foresters who's primary job is to find quality wood for our sawmills. The actual logging is typically contracted out. 

    However, there are logging companies that will pay a land owner for their trees. I hunt a 150 acre piece of land and the owner is having a logging company come in and harvest 243 oak trees. Oak is a widely used and will yield the most when the trees are mature. 

    In my logging days I would buy timber deeds and then have the term be 12 to 36 months so I could time the market.. If it was a logging show that would work in the winter  we might lock up the Timber deed in July but wait till the log prices rose in Jan..  like they always do.

    WE could also use the Timber deed as security for debt.. And on top of that I could show land owners how they could sell their timber with NO tax... well Not no tax but we showed them how they could do a 1031 without selling the land.. that was popular for the more sophisticated land owner.. the old farmer.. the concept that you could log and pay no tax they just did not believe.. and of course their HR block person had no clue..   Now we were talking 200 to 3million dollar plus deals..  Not sure what MBF runs in the mid west in the soft wood area's  .  however in our area it runs 20 to 100k mbf per acre.. with a nice stand running 50 MBF per acre.. As the govmit closed down the national forests to logging .. the mills had to retool to take smaller logs.. When you look at historic logging pictures and see ONE log on a truck now you see 50 stems  and back in the deep south they are like tooth picks.. :)

  • Lender · Southwest Georgia · Member since 2017 · 315 posts · 278 votes
    5y

    Luckily, I have a good friend in the Lumber Supplier business. He deals directly with Mills then sells to local and small chain hardware stores. What he said echoes what most people heard and have already mentioned about the Mills making the wrong prediction on demand in a pandemic. However there is a new problem. The Mills are making alot of money...


    Per my conversation with my good friend, he has said that the mills he deals with directly are making in profit around 17k a truck that leaves the mills with a load, so you can imagine how many trucks leave daily. They have realized that due to housing shortages and rates being low many consumers are ok with paying these higher prices. The mills could drop prices now, but why would they when demand has not slowed with prices going sky high.  So when will the prices come down? When people quit buying at these ridiculous prices. Until that stops, prepare for this to continue. 

  • Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Jay Hinrichs since you're also a local Oregon builder, do you think it's worth building here (rural PDX south metro area) in the next year? Or take the risk that prices go even higher by waiting? We're trying to decide if we build this year or wait until 2022. Everything seems ridiculously overpriced right now that we're getting bids 100-150K over the budget set based on prices when we bought our land in mid-2019. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ciarraghe G.:

    @Jay Hinrichs since you're also a local Oregon builder, do you think it's worth building here (rural PDX south metro area) in the next year? Or take the risk that prices go even higher by waiting? We're trying to decide if we build this year or wait until 2022. Everything seems ridiculously overpriced right now that we're getting bids 100-150K over the budget set based on prices when we bought our land in mid-2019. 

    you need your crystal ball..  Lumber is just one component.. ONly way I see things dropping other than the lumber commodities is if there is a huge slow down and the subs are not as busy as they are now..  Also it sounds like your building a large custom home if the prices just shot up by that amount that would be almost half of our total budget on a new build 

  • Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Jay Hinrichs haha, all out of crystal balls, unfortunately. But yes we are building a 3K square foot home- nothing fancy, but a custom floorplan... which is why we're reeling, because it's nothing fancy. I'm getting quoted 100K or more just for the lumber, not including trusses. Price per square foot when we bought the land was around $150 estimated by what the mortgage company was seeing and now we're seeing quotes for $350-500 per square foot!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ciarraghe G.:

    @Jay Hinrichs haha, all out of crystal balls, unfortunately. But yes we are building a 3K square foot home- nothing fancy, but a custom floorplan... which is why we're reeling, because it's nothing fancy. I'm getting quoted 100K or more just for the lumber, not including trusses. Price per square foot when we bought the land was around $150 estimated by what the mortgage company was seeing and now we're seeing quotes for $350-500 per square foot!

    something is not right there..  lumber has risen but not that high.. I just paid 45k for a 2400 sq ft home included 8 k in truss's  

    i used to pay 28 to 30k for the same thing..   \

    350 500 a foot would be ultra custom  with 100k kitchen 50k bathrooms etc etc.

    the best sanded in place floors  solid cedar or redwood siding or solid brick etc etc.   does this include well and septic and sit work .

    one can spend 50 to 75k on well and septic  and another 20 to 30k on site work.. ?? 

  • Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Jay Hinrichs Those prices seem decently reasonable. 

    I'm just wanting decent quality but not high end- for example vinyl plank floor, standard white cabinets, basic grade granite. The Driveway, Septic, well and power are already in place, we logged and prepped the site last spring so that's also done and paid for, although we still have to dig for the foundation. We haven't yet pulled permits. 

    The excuse I keep getting is the lumber prices. Subs being in super high demand and costing 2-3X normal for labor has been brought up as well more than once. But based on doing 2 rehabs in the last year I'm not seeing the subs costing THAT much more to justify why things are adding up so high. Sounds a bit like people in this area of the world are taking advantage and price gouging above and beyond lumber prices because they hear "custom". 

    Sorry OP for hijacking! 

  • Bonnie LowPro Member
    Lender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    This is a great write up. It's so much more helpful to hear about issues from the source rather than just speculators with an opinion. As a company that does extensive remodels, we're watching the price of materials very closely and are proceeding with caution. Labor has been an issue, too. It seems some of our go-to contractors haven't adjusted their labor prices up as much as you'd expect given the scarcity, but we're definitely seeing a pinch in the availability of labor. This means your job takes longer, your carrying costs go up and you pray the market on the other end will support it. Thanks again for this really helpful perspective!

  • Rental Property Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 46 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @John Lyszczyk thank you that was great and answered a lot of questions! We got into contract on a new build right after the spike and it added about $10K to our price out here in Idaho so we definitely felt it. Sounds like we still got in good then if it will continue to rise though

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y

    TLDR, COVID is the reason...

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:

    @John Lyszczyk (thunderous round of applause) Really that was a fantastic summary and synapsis. 

    Going a step further on that, as was touched on margins have grown by mind-boggling head-spinning factors that everyone in the trades would have said is absolutely impossible just 18 months ago. Aside from all the logistical and mathematical issues with supply/demand cycle of all this, there is now a new component, PROFIT. 

    For those not in the know, owning and running a lumber mill or lumber dealer has not historically been the kind of profit generation business one may think, yacht's and private jet's do not apply, lol. BUT now, these companies are enjoying profit margins only available in dreams previously, and for an extended duration. Events happen, shortages occur, enhanced margins to compensate, but these are limited "spike" events, this today is a system wide complete reset, for most part. That extended duration of a new enhanced math of profit ratios, well fact is it becomes a real nice cozy place to be that a company can get rather comfortable with. 

    Which leads to the next question, just how incentivized will an entire industry be to chop their "new norm" profit margins in half? I truly see this as a "new norm" in the truest economic sense, which means under a free market system 1) it will require a time of resource supply coming amply available 2) new servicers enter of existing servicers in a fight for market share make an incremental discount on prevailing margins, where ample margins exist 3) time, lot's of time for this cycle to slowly incrementally play out until prices come down to a "market" sustained rate that margins don't have that "play" to cut additionally, and we achieve equilibrium. 

    I hear far too many talk about this price event expecting prices to drop as suddenly and dramatically as they rose, that is simply not how the economics of it all works, it will be a long slow slope back down just how the 08/09 housing collapse was a sudden walk off a cliff, and a long slow walk up a hill, same market factors simply in reverse. 

    The big builders who have internalized all operations, they are a-ok in this as they have power to simply adjust unit pricing as input costs adjust, not to mention considerable purchasing power not just in dollars but network and, very literally, power. It's the spec. builders who are in trouble with this, and the renovators who sell via bids and float the variables of hard-cost inputs. As a former owner of Renovation firms and material's distribution, I have spoken to several still in the trades and it's a blood-bath to put it gently, and all are struggling with how to mitigate this issue. It's not as simple as just telling clients they must absorb these variables, telling clients the price for _____ is..... well it will be somewhere between $20k and $40k, probably, maybe, unless more price spikes, it could hit $50k, but hopefully no more than $60k, and the materials will be in..... eventually........ 

    It's rough out there, and I have yet to see 1 Twitter or anything of a contractor or carpenter getting a $100 thank you tip, maybe if they stopped being trades professionals and carry food for a living, but alas they only use countless years of skills building and thousands invested in tools to construct peoples homes. 

    Not sure about your characterization of the Lumber profitability..  They are not called Timber Barons for nothing.. there is vast wealth at least on the West coast in the timber / lumber business.. and most of the bigger mills do have Jets  Gulfstreams in fact  I know Stimson lumber has one etc.. Red Emerson in CA  Sierra Pacific lumber is uber wealthy..  Now if your talking small mom and pop hard wood mills I can see that for sure.. but the major players in the Paper dimensional lumber etc.. those old families are loaded..   

    Was speaking in generalities, not accounting for the select few who have held land and operations since Jesus was a pup. Many mill owners and brokers are rather average persons, rather successful in their own right but nothing close to what most would envision as "rich".

    I think its highly regional as well..  plenty of mills have closed.. that is a fact.. in some little towns in Oregon  50 to 75 years ago there might have been 20 working mills  today ZERO.. that's why a lot of rural Oregon has remained very rural and very poor generally speaking.. no industry..  And on the west coast a very large % of dimensional lumber comes from BC  ergo the fact that the Tariffs are a big reason for wild price fluctuations.. Spotted owl and other environmental issue closed up vast amounts of timber land to the markets. 

    Also we have to keep in mind our west coast stud material is Doug fir and Hemlock or Hem fir as they call it..  and out east they use pine.. So your in different markets.. and in the deep south you have such huge swaths of plantation pine etc..  where logging costs are a fraction of moutain logging.. All that flat land in FLA  MS  AL  GA or relatively flat.. much of it can be processed with feller bunchers..  Where we still have to have Fallers hand fall the timber.. then skidders move the logs to the log decks  big expensive logging roads to build and maintain.. Just a different environment when your harvesting timber on 10 to 40% degree slopes Fording big rushing rivers etc etc. 

    When skydiving and EOD get's boring, that's apparently the career to take up to get some zing back in it, lol. 

  • Marlo I.Pro Member
    Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    Thanks for sharing, this gained insight will help me when running my numbers for future projects.

  • Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    I'm late to this post it looks like.

    @John Lyszczyk I picked the perfect time to build a storage shed lol. 

    I'm a developer myself and it's painful how expensive wood is and how hard it is to come by.

    Something that no one is talking about though......at HD 2x4x8s are shorter now!!!!! I didn't notice this until I started building my storage shed at home and it fit into the back of my SUV way easier than it should have. Got home and measured and I mean I felt cheated! But such is the market right now!

  • Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y
  • John LyszczykPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Marine City, MI · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 230 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Luka Milicevic:

    I'm late to this post it looks like.

    @John Lyszczyk I picked the perfect time to build a storage shed lol. 

    I'm a developer myself and it's painful how expensive wood is and how hard it is to come by.

    Something that no one is talking about though......at HD 2x4x8s are shorter now!!!!! I didn't notice this until I started building my storage shed at home and it fit into the back of my SUV way easier than it should have. Got home and measured and I mean I felt cheated! But such is the market right now!

     I'm sorry to hear that, man. I've had a mill cut a few bundles of studs short for a project I was awarded. It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen from time to time. 

    This too shall pass! lol  

  • Investor · Hampstead NC · Member since 2019 · 39 posts · 46 votes
    5y

    So what do you think of this assessment...

    2020-2021:

    -Lumber supply squeeze and demand spike pushes prices through the roof.

    -Builders delay building due to uncertainty and high lumber prices.

    -High demand for housing and lack of new housing supply pushes DOM down and housing prices go up nationwide

    -Lumber mills react to price increases and expand production capacity. Building that new sawmill starts next year, won't be finished until end 2022/2023.

    So...

    -Price to build new homes will continue to stay high until mid 2023, which means those won't be coming on the market until late 2023/early 2024.

    -Sometime in 2023-2024 we should expect to see much more sawmill and treating capacity than we had pre-covid. This will eventually lead to a supply glut and much lower lumber prices.

    -Cost to build new construction compared to the "new-norm" level of housing prices in 2024 will be cheap.

    -This will lead to a rapid growth in housing starts in 2024, which will stagnate home prices for some time.

    Do we have any builders here who can add some insight here?

  • Contractor · Grand Marais, MN · Member since 2016 · 249 posts · 417 votes
    5y
    I'm a gc.  No one has talked to me about delaying their project.  I am booked to 2022 as it is. People gulp at the materials cost, but do it anyways. Waiting for a pullback that may or may not come is a tough game. If lumber crashes, people are petrified the world is ending. By 2024, even if prices come down, labor will almost certainly be up. I have written about this before, but the labor shortage is real, and shows no sign of improving. 

    Originally posted by @Krystle Khoo:

    So what do you think of this assessment...

    2020-2021:

    -Lumber supply squeeze and demand spike pushes prices through the roof.

    -Builders delay building due to uncertainty and high lumber prices.

    -High demand for housing and lack of new housing supply pushes DOM down and housing prices go up nationwide

    -Lumber mills react to price increases and expand production capacity. Building that new sawmill starts next year, won't be finished until end 2022/2023.

    So...

    -Price to build new homes will continue to stay high until mid 2023, which means those won't be coming on the market until late 2023/early 2024.

    -Sometime in 2023-2024 we should expect to see much more sawmill and treating capacity than we had pre-covid. This will eventually lead to a supply glut and much lower lumber prices.

    -Cost to build new construction compared to the "new-norm" level of housing prices in 2024 will be cheap.

    -This will lead to a rapid growth in housing starts in 2024, which will stagnate home prices for some time.

    Do we have any builders here who can add some insight here?

  • John LyszczykPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Marine City, MI · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 230 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:

    Hey Matt, 

    I'm curious about your labor shortage comment. We are experiencing labor struggles in the lumber industry as well. COVID still seems to be having an effect on treating manufacturers and sawmills. 

    My question(s) for you as a GC, what do you think is the reason for the labor shortage? Are younger generations disinterested in the trades?

  • Contractor · Grand Marais, MN · Member since 2016 · 249 posts · 417 votes
    5y
    "Disinterested " is putting it mildly. I'm in a small town, but the youngest plumber is in his 50s. I am small time, looking for the right fit, so am admittedly picky, but I don't need 10. I'm looking for 1. Have offered promising kids 25 to 30 bucks an hour to start...no dice.  Not looking for a warm body, a kid with ambition. Starting a hard worker at 25, is way cheaper than a space filler at 15. The wealth gap is going to get immensely wider. If my guidance counselor in high school knew what I was doing, he would be mortified. I have a 4 year degree...
    I know how the educational system works, and it has only gotten worse.  Construction is beneath most kids..

    Originally posted by @John Lyszczyk:
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:

    Hey Matt, 

    I'm curious about your labor shortage comment. We are experiencing labor struggles in the lumber industry as well. COVID still seems to be having an effect on treating manufacturers and sawmills. 

    My question(s) for you as a GC, what do you think is the reason for the labor shortage? Are younger generations disinterested in the trades?

  • John LyszczykPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Marine City, MI · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 230 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:
    "Disinterested " is putting it mildly. I'm in a small town, but the youngest plumber is in his 50s. I am small time, looking for the right fit, so am admittedly picky, but I don't need 10. I'm looking for 1. Have offered promising kids 25 to 30 bucks an hour to start...no dice.  Not looking for a warm body, a kid with ambition. Starting a hard worker at 25, is way cheaper than a space filler at 15. The wealth gap is going to get immensely wider. If my guidance counselor in high school knew what I was doing, he would be mortified. I have a 4 year degree...
    I know how the educational system works, and it has only gotten worse.  Construction is beneath most kids..

    Originally posted by @John Lyszczyk:
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:

    Hey Matt, 

    I'm curious about your labor shortage comment. We are experiencing labor struggles in the lumber industry as well. COVID still seems to be having an effect on treating manufacturers and sawmills. 

    My question(s) for you as a GC, what do you think is the reason for the labor shortage? Are younger generations disinterested in the trades?
     

    That is sad, but reaffirms what I've been hearing from others. Younger generations want to be "content creators" or a "Youtuber" on the internet these days. Swinging a hammer is not glamorous enough apparently. Makes me wonder how all these homes are going to get built lol. The trades are going to be in an interesting position as time moves on.

  • Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2020 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    @John Lyszczyk

    My wood shutters business hand come to a halt. Not worth my time to get good margins with current materials costs.

    Focusing more on rentals properties.

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Lyszczyk:
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:
    "Disinterested " is putting it mildly. I'm in a small town, but the youngest plumber is in his 50s. I am small time, looking for the right fit, so am admittedly picky, but I don't need 10. I'm looking for 1. Have offered promising kids 25 to 30 bucks an hour to start...no dice.  Not looking for a warm body, a kid with ambition. Starting a hard worker at 25, is way cheaper than a space filler at 15. The wealth gap is going to get immensely wider. If my guidance counselor in high school knew what I was doing, he would be mortified. I have a 4 year degree...
    I know how the educational system works, and it has only gotten worse.  Construction is beneath most kids..

    Originally posted by @John Lyszczyk:
    Originally posted by @Matt Groth:

    Hey Matt, 

    I'm curious about your labor shortage comment. We are experiencing labor struggles in the lumber industry as well. COVID still seems to be having an effect on treating manufacturers and sawmills. 

    My question(s) for you as a GC, what do you think is the reason for the labor shortage? Are younger generations disinterested in the trades?
     

    That is sad, but reaffirms what I've been hearing from others. Younger generations want to be "content creators" or a "Youtuber" on the internet these days. Swinging a hammer is not glamorous enough apparently. Makes me wonder how all these homes are going to get built lol. The trades are going to be in an interesting position as time moves on.

    This is not a new problem.  It has been going on for years or even decades.  Used to be hidden by a steady stream of undocumented workers and that has definitely dried up over the past several years.  Perfectly predictable.  People can argue all they want about immigration but on the ground, in the real world, those decisions have consequences.  Can’t have it both ways.  Same problem is hitting the Argo business where in some places, crops spoil in the field because no one is interested in being a strawberry picker, etc. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2020 · 51 posts · 40 votes
    5y

    @John Lyszczyk

    As much as I would like to blame COVID and high demand for the rising prices.

    The price of materials has sky rocketed due to poor policies by the previous administration.

    Tariffs are not “free market” friendly and have caused materials to sky rocket.

    Now instead of having to compete with other companies.

    US material companies are now monopolies and charge what they want.

    Low inventory = high prices

    The difference in this situation is these companies are trying to make a quick buck with and drain builders & investors dry.

    IMO.

  • New to Real Estate · Naugatuck, CT · Member since 2020 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    5y
    I'm a builder in the Northeast and the combination of material shortage and dramatic price increases have made doing business difficult. In a matter of months the price of studs doubled, we couldn't get pressure treated material to complete jobs we already had lined up, and material cost went up even more from there.

    We signed contracts for a job in November, and just in the time from signing those contracts to the point now, where we're ready to start framing, the material went up another 30%. Prices are so crazy our lumber supplier told us he had a truck full of lumber being delivered that afternoon and he didn't even know what he was paying for it yet.

    The Northeast is already an expensive market, and the fact is at this time it's really not even feasible to build new construction. Even at cost, you can barely build a house for what it would sell for on the market. And that's even with builder grade finishes. The square footage cost to build prices you right out of the market.

    So don't be surprised when you receive quotes from contractors that seem astronomically high to you--our costs have gone up dramatically for material and good labor!
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