My Direct Mail Campaign Results Have Been Atrocious

My Direct Mail Campaign Results Have Been Atrocious

Wholesaler · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2012 · 259 posts · 147 votes

Hey There BPers,

Myself and my business partner have been spending a significant amount of time on our direct mail campaign and so far, our results have been subpar to say the least. We have sent out a total of 395 letters and received a whopping 5 responses. 1 was a prank call. 2 were of the "please remove me from your list" variety. Our one success was getting an appointment with a seller, so in reality we have had 1 good response out of 395 total letters. I'm hoping to get some insights and ideas/critiques for increasing our response rate. The details of our campaigns are below.

We have slowly been gathering addresses so our list is split up, one campaign is 149 people and the other is 246 people. We have sent the different groups different pieces to try and test what will get the best response.

The first group received a standard yellow letter stuffed inside of a handwritten (in blue sharpie) 6x9" manilla envelope (link). I also used some muscle car stamps instead of the regular American flag ones to hopefully make it seem more "friendly". Our response rate was 4 of 149. Here is a picture of the finished letter:

The second group of 246 received a different mailer altogether. We used an A6 invitation-style envelope that was handwritten in black ink. Instead of a yellow letter, we sent our message on standard white copy paper. This letter was placed in the mail on 10/19 and we've only received one phone call and one FB like from our efforts. Here is the copy:

"

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Dev HornPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y

Your list there is a good "core" list of houses for you guys to keep an eye on, but your list size is WAY to small to generate a meaningful flow of leads.

Buy a list of at least 1,000 ABSENTEE OWNERS and mail them postcards every month for AT LEAST 6 months.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Professional · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    Hi Brandon,

    I get a decent return rate (sent out six letters and had one of the six recipients call me). I printed with my letter a Zestimate from Zillow showing them the Zillow estimate on their home, circled the number in red marker and presto, got the call two weeks later. I'd definitely do this. I would also send the letter in an unmarked envelope so the recipients don't know who's mailing them, especially since you're a broker (like me). This intrigue will ensure your letter is first opened and read.

    Best,

    Barry

  • Lender · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 74 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    @Barry Herbst Are you trying to buy the property or get a listing?

    I ask because the Zestimate is a retail price, which is is too high for most investment strategies. 

  • Real Estate Professional · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 14 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Olsen:

    @Barry Herbst Are you trying to buy the property or get a listing?

    I ask because the Zestimate is a retail price, which is is too high for most investment strategies. 

     Hi Bruce,

    I'm trying to get listings. I'll circle the price Zestimates shows (which is normally a lot lower than the FSBO is asking). But sometimes the Zestimate is accurate, sometimes not- the aim to get calls has worked, at least 1/6 times so far :D

  • Real Estate Broker · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2012 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Foken:

    Hey There BPers,

    Myself and my business partner have been spending a significant amount of time on our direct mail campaign and so far, our results have been subpar to say the least. We have sent out a total of 395 letters and received a whopping 5 responses. 1 was a prank call. 2 were of the "please remove me from your list" variety. Our one success was getting an appointment with a seller, so in reality we have had 1 good response out of 395 total letters. I'm hoping to get some insights and ideas/critiques for increasing our response rate. The details of our campaigns are below....

    Yes.. don't Direct Mail.  Use Content Marketing via a powerful Website like InvestorCarrot etc. 

  • Lender · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 74 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    @Barry Herbst That makes sense, then. Most investors shy away from even mentioning a retail price, partly as a time management technique and partly to avoid setting unrealistic expectations (and making the subsequent conversation more difficult).  I wonder if that's an urban myth... any investors have any thoughts on marketing w/ the retail price? 

  • Real Estate Agent · Weatherford, TX · Member since 2011 · 726 posts · 284 votes
    11y

    In my personal experience .5 to 1% is a good rate.  Working with @Jon Klaus using @Jerry Puckett's mail service, over the last 3 years, we've sent out around 35-40K pieces in super hot East Austin.  All yellow letters from http://marketlikeawholesaler.com.  This was made up of 8 individual campaigns, with many properties receiving up to 12 pieces of mail over the course of time.

    To be conservative, lets say 40K pieces in 3 years.  We USUALLY let the calls go to VM.  And we had high margin targets.  We passed on many "deals" volume investors probably would have bought.  Here are some stats:

    Return to Sender Mail: 332 addresses (out of about 5000) 6.7% (This does not consider number of pieces)

    Total unique Calls from mail ~ 650 (1.6%)

    Unique Callers we could identify: 560 (1.4%)

    Additional Missed Calls (unidentifiable or Telemarketing): ~100 (.3%)

    Take Me off Your list/dead leads: 323 (.8% of mail, 58% of people we talked to)

    Deals: 12 (.03% of mail, 2% of people we talked to)

    Not Motivated (YET), Weird Situations, Didn't return calls: 225 (.6% of mail, 40% of people we talked to)

    Mail per _____ stats:

    Mail per call: 62

    Mail per actual person talked to: 72

    Mail per actual lead (not a take me off/dead): 169

    Mail per deal: 3,334

    @Barry Herbst

    Cool idea for getting listings!  I may just try that when I get my license in the next few weeks:)

    With regard to "buy" marketing, the only thing "retail" has helped me with in marketing to buy properties, is explaining why a potential seller's asking price is unreasonable. I can show them them full retail comps with pictures, to compare to the condition of their property. Nothing sneaky or dishonest here. Just simple "here's what a $100K property looks like". We'll pay you $50K for yours. Etc.

    I'm paraphrasing, but that's the idea. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. But I feel it's a good tool to keep in the toolbox when meeting sellers.

  • Lender · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2013 · 74 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the stats, @Shane Woods. That's very helpful.

    Is Austin played out like everyone seems to say? We almost moved there in mid-2013.

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    11y

    So you are saying 12 deals in 35,000- 40,000 mail pieces @Shane Woods?

    Sharon

  • Real Estate Agent · Weatherford, TX · Member since 2011 · 726 posts · 284 votes
    11y

    Yes ma'am that's Correct. Not "just" 12 deals.  12 home run deals.  We had a very specific criteria. Not looking for "singles" and "doubles".  We passed on many "deals" others would have bought.  At least 20 over the last 3 years.  Gross margin after everything is sold/developed should be close to $1M.

    @Sharon Vornholt

  • Real Estate Agent · Weatherford, TX · Member since 2011 · 726 posts · 284 votes
    11y

    i don't think Austin is played out at all.  Its just super competive. In the hot zips, homeowners receive multiple letters every week.  Some receive multiple letters each day. 

    @bruce sorry my phone won't let me @mention you.

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    11y


    Awesome @Shane Woods.

  • Vendor · los angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dev Horn:

    Your list there is a good "core" list of houses for you guys to keep an eye on, but your list size is WAY to small to generate a meaningful flow of leads.

    Buy a list of at least 1,000 ABSENTEE OWNERS and mail them postcards every month for AT LEAST 6 months.

     Great advice. I say 1000 mailers gets at least 1 deal. So I shoot to mail 2500 every time. That way I guarantee myself to get a deal or two.

  • Vendor · los angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    The letter is way too long.

    If you have ever watched celebrities they practice communication in a clear and short way as possible. Watch interviews and answers some time.

    The letter being long trying to explain everything to sift out the serious sellers is a mistake in my opinion.

    Over the years I do commercial real estate but used to do the owners heading into foreclosure etc. What most want is a very short to the point letter maybe a few sentences stating what you want to do and how to reach you. The mailers have a snow ball effect where only a small percentage might respond right away and the rest it might be in 6 months or 1 year from now or never.

    You want to get in front of them or on the phone to actively interact with them versus a passive letter. The passive letter isn't the place to go over all these options or what will happen etc.

    LESS is MORE. If you are direct and to the point they will want to contact you more. If you go on and on they will figure you will be difficult to deal with.

     ahhh This confused me. A lot of the books ive read always say the longer copy works best.

    I only send one page letters. I keep them super basic but I still feel bad because they aren't long. Ive gotten results so I havent used the long copy but This post made me conflicted.

    I read this in Dan S Kennedy books.

  • Vendor · los angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Foken:

    Thanks for the replies, everyone.

    @Dev Horn after reading your input, I came to the realization that both campaigns involved lengthier marketing copy. (I guess I had been reading too much from Dan Kennedy). My business partner and I are meeting tomorrow to buy some leads from Listsource and get a campaign going off of those. I have been looking at yellowletters.com and their zip letters; what service do you use for your postcards?

    @Joel Owens thanks for the input. I had taken the idea of using longer marketing copy some from reading Dan Kennedy's book and also from the @Sharon Vornholt blog. I got a few sample letters from signing up for her mailing list and assumed that the longer letters were working for her and that would be best for my market. Anyways, thanks for the great advice. I'm going to write-up some new marketing copy today or tomorrow and post it back here to help others and get some critiques.

     Lol I was writting the same exact thing before i say this post about dan kennedy.

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    11y

    @Isidro Hernandez - I have never used anything more than 1 page for a letter.  There are  different schools of thought on direct mail and my opinion on what you should use is "it all depends". What works this month may not work in 6 months. Also what works in one market may not work in another market. 

    Personally where letters are concerned, I like to put a little more information in my letters.  I would rather have fewer but better quality calls.

    I can tell you this for sure; when your marketing pieces are no longer working my advice is to change it up.  Use something different.  I have done a couple of podcasts with @Michael Quarles and he will tell you the same thing.  It's good to vary you mail pieces from time to time.  You will notice that he offers a lot of different types of mail pieces.  

    It's also a matter of testing.  You should always be tracking your results.  You should know your return (calls) on your marketing. 

    I hope this helps.

    Sharon

  • Vendor · los angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Sharon Vornholt:

    @Isidro Hernandez - I have never used anything more than 1 page for a letter.  There are  different schools of thought on direct mail and my opinion on what you should use is "it all depends". What works this month may not work in 6 months. Also what works in one market may not work in another market. 

    Personally where letters are concerned, I like to put a little more information in my letters.  I would rather have fewer but better quality calls.

    I can tell you this for sure; when your marketing pieces are no longer working my advice is to change it up.  Use something different.  I have done a couple of podcasts with @Michael Quarles and he will tell you the same thing.  It's good to vary you mail pieces from time to time.  You will notice that he offers a lot of different types of mail pieces.  

    It's also a matter of testing.  You should always be tracking your results.  You should know your return (calls) on your marketing. 

    I hope this helps.

    Sharon

     I agree. Mixing it up is the only constant. I'll check out your podcast!

  • Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
    11y

    That's the beauty of being an entrepreneur @Isidro Hernandez.  We have the ability to turn on a dime when we need to make changes. :)

    Sharon

  • Investor · Fridley, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 25 votes
    11y

    I'm on my first round of mailers. did postcards to SFRs, and handwritten to small multis. The handwritten has about a 10% response rate so far. Postcards, only 1 response. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 238 posts · 101 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @David S.:

    I'm on my first round of mailers. did postcards to SFRs, and handwritten to small multis. The handwritten has about a 10% response rate so far. Postcards, only 1 response. 

    If you don't mind me asking, how many did you send out of each?

  • Rental Property Investor · Marianna Florida · Member since 2011 · 357 posts · 169 votes
    11y

    We mail 1000 letters per week and only end up getting five or six houses per month from our letters. Its just one way of getting houses. Don't limit yourself. You need many streams to converge to make a river.

  • Investor · Fridley, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 25 votes
    11y

    @Gerardo Dominguez

     Total mailing was around 850 postcards, 80 handwritten yellow letters. Got I think 12+ calls from the letters. Two from the postcards. 

  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 61 posts · 20 votes
    11y

    @Brandon Foken

    This has been the best thread I've read thus far. I am gaining actin of information.

    Brandon, I am interested to know how your business is doing as of date. It is very inspiring to see your progress thus far. If you don't mind, can you post some of your numbers as far as profits on your first couple of deals compared to funds put into your marketing campaign? In seeing your progress, do you feel your ROI is where you want it to be? How many deals, and type of deals, have you done to date? How many deals did it take for you to realize the amount that you input into your business? Just trying to learn from everyone's experience.

  • Wholesaler, Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    I agree with @DavidKrulac you literally have to send out thousands of letters or postcards to get a higher response rate. One thing that we have started doing is asking people when they call why they called our card over the others. We then take their feedback and use it to change up our copy or our layout. 

    Either way don't get discouraged, we have received dozens of deals from our postcard campaign. They will work you just have to put in the numbers.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pflugerville, TX · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Brandon Foken Hey Brandon I'm a new investor and I'm very interest to know which website did you use for your marketing campaign? Any helpful marketing advice would be great as well. It seems like you have a pretty good handle on things.

  • Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    I know this is an old post, but I just wanted to thank everybody for their input here, especially @ Dev Horn.  This has been very helpful.

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