Low response rate from direct mail campaign (Atlanta metro area)

Woodstock, GA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 8 votes

Hello! Last month I sent out about 500 postcards to absentee homeowners in various zip codes around Cobb and Cherokee counties in Georgia (Kennesaw, Marietta, Woodstock, Canton, Acworth, etc.). I received 4 responses (3 calls and 1 website comment) and no deals, which was fine. I sent out postcards to the same list this month and have received only 1 response which was a request to be removed from the list. My criteria are the following:

- 50 to 100% equity

- out of state owners

- last sale date of 3+ years ago

I purchased the list from Listsource and used Click2Mail to send out the postcards (4.25 x 6) with a nice photo and a brief message.

Is this a low response rate? I was ok with the 4 out of 500 from the first mailing, though I obviously wanted higher. However, 1 out of 500 seems very low. Is it a bad time of year for this? I just wanted to see what people usually experienced around here (just north of Atlanta) with their direct mail campaigns.

Thank you!

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James Syed

Real Estate Broker · Mount Olive, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 310 votes

I disagree with last poster.

There is no way you will get 50-60 or little alone 90% response.

Property owners are NOT standing by to receive a postcard and jump to contact you to sell their property.

Postcards response generally is about 0.5%. I send about 1500-2000 postcards every month.

Hope it helps.

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William MurrellPro Member
Investor · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2013 · 276 posts · 169 votes
9y
Seems low to me. Maybe dial in your criteria? Seems like you'd get more from a reasonably constructed list like that.
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James Syed
Real Estate Broker · Mount Olive, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 310 votes
9y
@Eddie Atkinson
Welcome to BP.
Don't feel bad. I have been sending direct mail since the last year (August), I have a very little reaponse.
The idea is to keep doing it. One suggestion though, depending on your farm, 1500 a month is a good number to start.
Hope it helps.
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Jackie Lange
Investor · Central America, Panama · Member since 2010 · 423 posts · 293 votes
9y
Just because an owner lives out of town, it does not mean they are motivated sellers. It's a big mistake to mail to out of town owners thinking they will be motivated.

I have a lot of property in Texas but I live in Panama. I'm not a motivated seller. I get about 15 yellow letter or postcards a week (and they all say pretty much the same thing). What a waste of money for the guy/gal who thinks I'm ready to sell just because I don't live at the property address.
If you want to get a 50-60-90% response rate then you need to send postcards only to motivated sellers.
What makes a seller motivated to sell?
Their house is vacant
Tenant eviction problems
Code violations
Foreclosure or back taxes
Lost job
divorce
spouse died.
What else can you think of?
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James Syed
Real Estate Broker · Mount Olive, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 310 votes
9y
I disagree with last poster.
There is no way you will get 50-60 or little alone 90% response.
Property owners are NOT standing by to receive a postcard and jump to contact you to sell their property.
Postcards response generally is about 0.5%. I send about 1500-2000 postcards every month.
Hope it helps.
3 Reply
Pratik P.
Flipper/Rehabber · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2016 · 807 posts · 815 votes
9y
Your main problems are your list and # of units.
List: Just think of how many new wholesalers/investors are getting absentee lists from listsource? These people are getting SLAMMED with letters. I also found that most absentee owners are just out of state landlords. The most common response is "Well it brings in great money but what can you offer for it?"....That's not motivation. Your well under ARV offer will get rejected immediately.

#of Units: 500 postcards simply isn't enough to get any significant amount of leads.
What to do: First off, focus on building a higher quality list. Code enforcement, probate, eviction, inheritance, etc. I'm sure you've heard plenty about them in podcasts. The more work you have to put into your list, the higher the quality it will be. Second, see if you can switch to letters instead of postcards and then up the numbers closer to 1000 units a month. I'm sure these changes will improve your incoming leads.
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Carlos Tavares
Real Estate Professional · Pawtucket, RI · Member since 2016 · 133 posts · 79 votes
9y
Maybe it's just bad timing because of holiday season/shopping?
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Bhekizwe M.
Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Jackie Lange:

Just because an owner lives out of town, it does not mean they are motivated sellers. It's a big mistake to mail to out of town owners thinking they will be motivated.

What a waste of money for the guy/gal who thinks I'm ready to sell just because I don't live at the property address.
Interesting perspective,however some absent owners may have had enough(vacancy,repairs etc). Its worth mailing the list with a unique proposition
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Ranny BBloch
Vendor · Ramat Gan , South District · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 8 votes
9y
@Eddie Atkinson
From the research I did online the avg. response rate for investors direct mail is around 1%. That fits the statistics from your first round of mail. The second round sounds a bit low for a follow up email but a decrease is to be expected because the most interested prospects already got back to you in the last round.
You can try to acquire phone numbers for the list and attempt calling them up or getting their emails and sending a drip email campaign (which is also a lot cheaper) and see how the response rates compare to direct mail.
Also if you call the list you can try to understand what state of mind they are in and re-model your message accordingly.
Good luck!
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Rick H.
Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
I get lots of direct response mail from would-be buyers and agents since I had a lot of properties.
The first I wonder is, 'why would I be on their list in the first place?'
Absentee owner, yes. A seller, no. A motivated seller, definitely not!
I suspect the people/companies who are mailing have given little thought in segmenting their data and I am no different than the person who sees a billboard on the side of a highway, meaning it's broadcast generically.
Point is, you need to filter for specific triggers that motivate people to want to sell. Then create a campaign that targets these people and fires the trigger mechanism.
It's unlikely that you'll do this in a single mailing, either. Multiple touches that tell a story and gains tryst in the minds of the reader over time is more likely part of a more successful formula.
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Brad Woodall
Investor · Ball Ground, GA · Member since 2014 · 55 posts · 16 votes
9y
I too mail to similar list in the same areas you're mailing. I mail Cherokee, Cobb, and North Fulton (6 zip codes). Absentee owners, and Owner Occ 50+% equity & 55+ age with some last market sale date, bedroom/bath criteria, and age of home criteria. I have mailed that list twice now of around 2,000 mailers and got 12-13 calls the first go round and about 15 calls the 2nd round (still getting a few trickle in). Mostly "take me off your list" and the rest just kicking tires and want top dollar for their property. No deals the first round, I might have a deal on this 2nd round of mailers. I'm going to order round 3 next week so it hits the mail after the new year.
when I first started doing direct mail back in May, I mailed a similar small list of around 300 highly targeted absentee owners and I didn't get a deal until the 2nd mailer of that. Only had about 5-6 calls per mailer.
There's just a TON of people doing direct mail right now in the Atlanta Metro area.
I will keep mailing this list, but I'm starting to work on my web presence with social media posts & blog posts to boost SEO, and about to start an adwords campaign as well. I'm also posting CL ads, networking with wholesalers, and browsing the MLS daily and making offers on properties with certain keywords and high DOM.
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Reed Schlesinger
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 36 posts · 17 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Brad Woodall:

I too mail to similar list in the same areas you're mailing. I mail Cherokee, Cobb, and North Fulton (6 zip codes). Absentee owners, and Owner Occ 50+% equity & 55+ age with some last market sale date, bedroom/bath criteria, and age of home criteria. I have mailed that list twice now of around 2,000 mailers and got 12-13 calls the first go round and about 15 calls the 2nd round (still getting a few trickle in). Mostly "take me off your list" and the rest just kicking tires and want top dollar for their property. No deals the first round, I might have a deal on this 2nd round of mailers. I'm going to order round 3 next week so it hits the mail after the new year.
when I first started doing direct mail back in May, I mailed a similar small list of around 300 highly targeted absentee owners and I didn't get a deal until the 2nd mailer of that. Only had about 5-6 calls per mailer.
There's just a TON of people doing direct mail right now in the Atlanta Metro area.
I will keep mailing this list, but I'm starting to work on my web presence with social media posts & blog posts to boost SEO, and about to start an adwords campaign as well. I'm also posting CL ads, networking with wholesalers, and browsing the MLS daily and making offers on properties with certain keywords and high DOM.
Thanks for the info @Brad Woodall! I agree Direct Marketing is tough around the Atlanta area, but I am going to keep testing the postcards I am sending out and hopefully that will increase my conversion percentage.
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
9y
Well I am born and raised in GA. Grew up in Woodstock since I was about 5 years old. Lived in Canton, GA for over 10 years now. 42 years old now.
All of those areas Eddie is mentioning are highly desirable areas in GA. Cherokee county is one of the hottest counties in the nation right now. Lived here all my life. The demographics are going into the stratosphere. People do not need to sell here folks and give away their equity. Plan on sending a crap ton of letters for a long time to possibly find one property in these areas.
An investor might find better luck with divorce,probate, etc. attorneys to get a deal. Lot's of my friends used to flip houses on entry level stuff but the money is gone. Newbies trying to flip for 10k profit just to get started and crap like that. So my friends have gone into building new houses, or buying higher end flips to weed out the newbies for better profit spreads, or left SFR investing all together for other avenues of real estate investing.
Get away from the herds so you do not have to compete with newbie people with the (dumb money). Eventually with enough mailers you might get one deal but there are so many investors chasing this stuff right now. It's like people calling me for 100 unit and below multifamily in Atlanta. Must be 1,000 buyers chasing that stuff now and very little inventory.
I only do commercial retail these days.
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Eric F.
Real Estate Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2012 · 427 posts · 297 votes
9y
That is a really small sample size and probably overmailed list judging by Brad and Joel's posts. Those response numbers are not that bad to be honest. You can write off the December mailer so 4 leads from 500 postcards is acceptable. The worse response rate I have ever gotten was mailed in December. Hit it again in January and in the mean time start looking for a better list.
Also, keep in mind the election was November. I am not sure what Georgia was like but in NC I got multiple full color postcards, some 11x8 even, every single day since it was a battleground state. Any 4x6 yellow postcard to buy a house had no chance. We sent a mailer that arrived in the week before the election and the response rate was very poor (not as bad as the one that arrived just before Christmas last year). I would guess most people just threw the entire pile in the trash. I know I did!
Maybe try a bigger postcard next time. I use the 6x9 from click2mail.
@Jackie Lange Do people send you postcards all the way to Boquete or do you receive them at a US mailing address?
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y
@Brad Woodall you folks that are doing this have you ever given a thought to becoming an agent .??? this type of effort would no doubt lead to listings.. which in hot markets are far better than wholesale deals as in you know they will close.. I for one can't fathom why people would do this.. the success rate is next to zero.. you spending money you will never get back.. it does not get better you just waste your dough on direct mail and then your out of the game..
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Account Closed
Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Jay Hinrichs I thought the exact same thing. @Eddie Atkinson said he sent post cards two months in a row to the same list. That is what a highly funded agent does.
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Brandon Barnes
Wholesaler · Columbia, SC · Member since 2016 · 121 posts · 28 votes
9y
I have a great success rate on my direct mail through email, letters back, and phone calls 3-5%. I am teamed with an agent an send referrals as the people want retail. I too get a lot of tire kickers but I do get some leads. Just got 2 deals from one mailer. I send 2,000 mailers a month between multiple touches of the same list. I have found that "building" your list instead of buying the same list from Listsource that we all buy is much better. I sprinkle in purchased lists to hit my counts but I do my best to put my "eyes on" every house I am going to be mailing (whether it from driving for dollars or from internet mining). There is value in this but not easy. I'm hoping to ramp it up in 2017 with some new ideas and letter types I have created. As other have said 500 is not a good enough sample size either.
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Eddie Atkinson
OP
Woodstock, GA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 8 votes
9y
Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate you all investing the time to help me out!
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Aaron Mazzrillo
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
Mailing in December does not lead to December deals. It sets you up for January deals. Landlords just can't fathom the idea of some investor giving their "good" tenants a move out notice right before the holidays. Smart landlords also know that if they just wait till January to sell, they won't have to pay any taxes for 16 months or longer if they file an extension.
The other problem is your list is too small. 500 mailers? Wouldn't even bother. I'd expect 0 calls from that list if I only hit it one time. 5,000 mailers? Now we are talking something to work with.
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Parker Stiles
Flipper/Rehabber · Acworth, GA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 92 votes
9y
- Size: 500 needs to be 2,000 minimum
- List Popularity: Try the more niche lists that people above recommended
- Consistency: keep mailing to the list you choose for 6-12 months, each month

If it makes you feel any better, I am sending around 19,000 postcards a month in Charleston, SC. On our October mailing I got 160 phone calls. On the last 1/2 mailing sent at the beginning of December I got about 15 calls.. December is a low response month, BUT, some of people's best deals ever have come from December mailings. If you have to sell in December, God knows your motivated.
@Eddie Atkinson
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Brad Woodall
Investor · Ball Ground, GA · Member since 2014 · 55 posts · 16 votes
9y
Jay Hinrichs you read my mind haha. I'm actually taking the final exam for my pre-license course on Tuesday. Then I can sign up for the State exam once that's complete. So hopefully, I'm a couple months out from having my license. I think in this hot market, there's better money in listings than wholesaling stuff. Especially with all the newbies buying "deals" off the MLS. My last deal, I literally just threw a sign in the yard the morning I bought it and had my agent list it on the MLS and resold it for a profit. I have offered to refer a lot of the tire kickers to an agent and told them their best bet is listing with a agent because they want top dollar. All of them have declined so far. I mark them all as followup in my CRM and I'll try back in a couple months.
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
9y
Haha funny about listing with a broker or agent and they have declined so far. They want top dollar and no work.............. : ) My what a surprise...lol
Everyone wants the most for the littlest of effort. It's human nature.
I used to do lots of mailers in commercial years ago. I mainly have stopped that practice. These days I have my full time in house office manager research what I call ( target properties ). These are properties I know my direct clients I have on the commercial side would find desirable to purchase. We work to locate the e-mail address and even phone number of the owner. We look through a bunch of ways to find people.
Once we get the person I throw out a feeler of cap rate. If I know my client wants a 7.3 cap rate I throw out a 7.6 etc. If the owner is interested and they beat us down on cap rate then we win anyways but the seller feels like they fought the hard fight etc.
If the owner will sell but wants a lower cap rate I keep them in the system for when another buyer client approaches that wants less yield etc. It's all about matching buyers and sellers to the right property at the right point in time.
I used to mail thousands of mailers but then received junk calls or owners with assets non desirable for my clients. I find many owners can't stand the listing process and all of that but would love to sell if a strong buyer was presented.
I have the direct commercial buyers so work that side a lot.
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
9y
Forgot to mention if they do not want to sell we stay in touch with them over time to see if they change their mindset. Additionally we ask if they have other properties they might sell if they do not want to sell that one currently. If that is a no we ask if they have other investor friends who might have mentioned they want to sell or they would think might want to sell if approached.
You need to ask open ended questions to possibly discover other properties or contacts instead of hanging up the phone when they say they do not want to sell the property you called about.
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Eric F.
Real Estate Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2012 · 427 posts · 297 votes
9y
@Brad Woodall "I have offered to refer a lot of the tire kickers to an agent and told them their best bet is listing with a agent because they want top dollar. All of them have declined so far.
I mark them all as followup in my CRM and I'll try back in a couple months."
Those are your best leads. Call every single one monthly. Do not let them slip away. I find the best leads to follow up are ones where the house needs major work to be listed, not just paint and carpet but real work. As we all know, when the seller first wants to sell they plan on doing the work themselves so they can list it full price, and I wish them luck and even offer them advice. Mark these follow up! The vast majority of these sellers, in my experience, end up never doing the work and when you call them back 6 months later the reality has set in they will never be able to get their house in listable condition. After 6 additional months of mortgage payments and utilities down the drain, with no hope of selling it on the MLS, they realize the value you offer. And by the way, this is the value wholesalers and investors offer. These houses would never get sold otherwise.
If I could buy any lead source in the world it would be "Sellers who called investors 3 months ago and decided not to sell." I'd pay 10x any other list.
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Anna Watkins
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
9y
I'd throw my advice in with the folks who suggest tailoring your list, significantly. I get all kinds of this mail, from the friendly to the "last chance!" once (last chance I'll hear from you? Cool!). My properties are deeded to a trust (for estate planning), so even my own residence gets these cards (the mailer clearly isn't checking the list for address/owner address match). Invest some time along with your money to drive around, check out the addresses yourself, and flag properties that look more likely than others. If the addressee is "living trust," maybe not so likely, as that could be a person who's on top of their financial matters (especially if the deed switch is only a few years ago).
Customize your list as much as possible -- add and delete properties based on your own research. As others have said, there are a LOT of people sending to the same purchased lists these days.
Good luck
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Pete Perez
Engineer/Real Estate Investor · Renton, WA · Member since 2015 · 368 posts · 120 votes
9y
@Eddie Atkinson
Just because a person lives out of state and has equity doesn't mean they are willing to sell. There isn't any inherent motivation in that list. You may mail to someone who is going through something just at the right moment you mail to them. For the number of letters you're sending you need a more targeted list.
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