Self manage or hire property management, that is the question?
Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 3 votes
Self manage or hire property management, that is the question?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 460 posts · 250 votes
2yHi Juliette-
Great question!
You want to rent out your house but wonder if you should use a property manager or self manage.
I always advise my clients to use a property manager to make owning investment real estate as "passive" as possible and if the property manager is good they will help you maximize rents with their management and reduce turnover and the cost of tenant turnover. I also use property managers for my properties.
Additionally, unless you are an expert on Fair Housing laws you can easily find yourself in violation even when you think you are acting reasonably and find yourself in a lawsuit or under investigation.
Finding reliable contractors is an issue and a good property manager should have those relationships saving you time and hopefully money.
Navigating non-payment of rent or an eviction can be time consuming and expensive and a good property manager should help you avoid needing to do that with good tenant screening or have the legal resources to deal with it if you have to.
You do have to manage the property manager and watch expenses especially for large repairs. Always insist on three estimates for larger projects.
To Your Success!
23 Replies
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes2y
Well the good news is that there are a boatload of PMs in Orlando. The bad news is that a lot of them suck. I have a house there and we've cycled through a few different ones.
@Alice Horn is a good resource for this; I've spoken to her over the phone before and she's very knowledgeable and personable.
Skyline Properties - Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 3 votes2y
Hey JD-
thanks for the reply! And yes, we’ve heard the same—and nightmares!
thank you for the referral.
-juliette - Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 460 posts · 250 votes2y
Hi Juliette-
Great question!
You want to rent out your house but wonder if you should use a property manager or self manage.
I always advise my clients to use a property manager to make owning investment real estate as "passive" as possible and if the property manager is good they will help you maximize rents with their management and reduce turnover and the cost of tenant turnover. I also use property managers for my properties.
Additionally, unless you are an expert on Fair Housing laws you can easily find yourself in violation even when you think you are acting reasonably and find yourself in a lawsuit or under investigation.
Finding reliable contractors is an issue and a good property manager should have those relationships saving you time and hopefully money.
Navigating non-payment of rent or an eviction can be time consuming and expensive and a good property manager should help you avoid needing to do that with good tenant screening or have the legal resources to deal with it if you have to.
You do have to manage the property manager and watch expenses especially for large repairs. Always insist on three estimates for larger projects.
To Your Success!
- Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 351 votes2y
Better to start initially with a PM and when you have more time and knowledge after a few years see if you can self manage
- 2yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Are they worth it… every year people waste money on car insurance, home insurance, and medical insurance…. But, when there is an emergency you are sure glad that you have been paying all of those years.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - 2yShawn McCormickPro MemberRealtor · Central Florida-Orlando · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 892 votes
@Juliette Olsen I would be happy to recommend a couple of PM's here in Orlando that I personally know and use. Location may factor into who may be the best fit. Let me know if you once you come to a decision.
I personally own 3 doors OOS and self manage. I don't really want to, but the rents in the area are pretty low, and its not cost effective for me at this point. However, I also, admittingly do not know the laws as well as I should and that could come to bite me one day.
- 2yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Juliette Olsen another post from you?
If you have little to no PM experience, then you're better off hiring a professional PMC.
EVERYONE thinks it's easy to DIY property manage - until something goes wrong and you have no clue what to do!
Then your lack of knowledge causes you to lose MORE money than the cost of a PMC.
It's no different than life, house & car insurance - no one likes paying for them as you don't need them - until you do.
Logical Property Management4.9446 Reviews - Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 13 votes2y
Hello Juliette, i am going to contradict a few respondents and say that you should manage the property yourself. The
reason is not financial but practical. I self managed my first properties because I wanted to learn the process and be actively involved. For me, if i had not acquired the knowledge of the process of property management on a small scale then how could i possibly know what to expect from a property management company or individual. Next, if it is one property (and its in good condition) then it will not require a lot of time once you have found a good tenant. There are a lot of online solutions to help advertise, find and screen candidates, setup leases and ACH payments (i use Avail.co). My bookkeeping activities take about 2 hours per month and i use an online soltion for that too. My conclusion, there are a lot of property management companies that will happily take your money, but they are risky if you dont know what to expect from them. So, I recommend you invest time in learning the process on your first property while improving your cash flow at the same time. You can always convert to a PM later. - Attorney · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2023 · 178 posts · 106 votes2y
There is a distinct advantage of having local management (whether you or a company is managing). With technology, it's possible to manage from a distance yourself, but it would still be more difficult.
Getting a good property management company is worth the cost (especially when you're out of state), but if you choose the wrong one, it'll cost you more than their fee, in which case, you might as well have managed it yourself.
When looking for a PM, consider these criteria:
1) the experience and credentials of the broker who supervises the company as well as the lead property manager
2) the services they offer and how they line up with your needs and expectations
3) the use of technology to make their job and yours easier
4) if they have a landlord-tenant attorney on retainer to help guide them on legal issues (not to mention the creation of lease agreement, landlord forms and notices, etc.)
5) their process and policy for a) listing, b) application, c) tenant selection, d) routine inspections, e) maintenance services, f) property and tenancy update reports to you, g) lease enforcement policy, and f) move-out process.
6) property owner reviews (caution: you can't always rely on Google reviews, because they may not reflect actual quality of the company, but still)
7) beneficial programs for both owner and tenant
8) a property management agreement that would indicate they know what they're doing and have the experience to know what matters in a PMA. A lot of people prefer "simple" agreements, but truth is, there is a lot of moving parts in the property management business, and the PMA should take this into account.
9) Access for communication. I would ensure that you will always be able to get in touch with one of the staff. Some companies are very difficult to contact. Not a good thing.
If you decide to self-manage, you need to consider (at least):
-management software (rent management, communications, maintenance requests and tracking, etc.)
-reliable "handyman" who can deal with minor repairs (make sure licensed and insured)
-tenant self-inspection app or use third party service for inspections
-vendors to service home functions, e.g. plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc.
-landlord attorney for legal questions, lease agreement, landlord forms, education, etc.Best wishes.
- Property Manager · Orlando · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 4 votes2y
@Juliette Olsen professional property management is my recommendation. You can still learn from your PM about the processes and laws. Hiring a professional and reputable PMC will not keep you in the dark, they help you stay educated. However, not all PMCs operate the same. Do your research and due diligence to find the best property management company that works best for you. BiggerPockets now has a featured property management search option on the platform. Check it out.
- 2ySamuel DioufBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus & Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I would use a PM
Reafco - Samuel Diouf528 Reviews - 2yKerlous TadresBusiness MemberRealtor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Juliette Olsen:
Hi!
We’re planning to rent our home when we move—but we know we will be moving out of state.
Question is:
Self manage out of state?
OR
Hire property manager and eat the costs until you have cash flow coming in?
What’s the major perks in your opinion of having a property manager? Are they worth the costs?Share your stories! And if you are a property manager company in Orlando, Fl, would love to chat.
With gratitude,
JulietteHey Juliette, I would definitely recommend hiring a property manager! Self managing out of state can be a nightmare if you do not have any friends or relatives that you know in the state you are investing in.
Kerlous Tadres | Reafco Real Estate539 Reviews - 2yBonnie LowPro MemberLender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I don't have a dog in this fight because I do both. For my LTRs I use a PM and for my MTRs & STRs I self manage (both local and OOS) so I've seen the pros and cons to both. It is definitely possible to manage your own properties unless you simply don't want the hassle. There are abundant tools and resources and plenty of people to learn from in order to set yourself up for success. Sure, there are horror stories but those happen with professional PM in place also. If you have the proper legal documents in place and a strong tenant vetting process you can avoid much of the risk, though it's never fool proof, even with a PM.
- 2yAlecia LovelessPro MemberMember since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Juliette Olsen While this is a very personal decision based on many factors I think if you already have a decent list of contractors having previously been living in the house then you should be fine self-managing should you so choose.
Probably the hardest part will be in placing a tenant but I have found that when I do this myself I make much better decisions for my property than someone else does.
I’ve found that I’m a pretty good judge of character and can get a good feel for how well the prospective tenants will fit in with me.
Granted there’s always mistakes possible but for the most part I’ve done well on my own.
- Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 3 votes2y
Quote from @Bonnie Low:
I don't have a dog in this fight because I do both. For my LTRs I use a PM and for my MTRs & STRs I self manage (both local and OOS) so I've seen the pros and cons to both. It is definitely possible to manage your own properties unless you simply don't want the hassle. There are abundant tools and resources and plenty of people to learn from in order to set yourself up for success. Sure, there are horror stories but those happen with professional PM in place also. If you have the proper legal documents in place and a strong tenant vetting process you can avoid much of the risk, though it's never fool proof, even with a PM.
You’ve seen both sides, which is awesome. I’m wondering what your vetting process is for tenants. @Alecia Loveless mentions having a good feel for tenants, and I think that’s amazing she is skilled in that. I am not sure I’d be so great at this or at lease I not sure I’m willing to risk. So looking for recommendations on vetting. I’ve read to have your criteria high but not so high you’re sitting on your hands for 3+ months to Find the perfect tenant.
Appreciate your insight !!
respectfully, juliette - Property Manager · Kissimmee, FL · Member since 2019 · 445 posts · 266 votes2y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Well the good news is that there are a boatload of PMs in Orlando. The bad news is that a lot of them suck. I have a house there and we've cycled through a few different ones.
@Alice Horn is a good resource for this; I've spoken to her over the phone before and she's very knowledgeable and personable.
Thanks for the kind words @JD Martin ! Juliette feel free to reach out anytime and I can help you evaluate the various options!
- 2yJake BakerBusiness MemberFlipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
Well said @Jeff Roth.
If you are investing OOS I highly recommend a property manager. It is worth the monthly expense for all the reasons that Jeff listed.
Here are my thoughts on Cash Flow: While extra cash every month is great, I look at Cash Flow as a hedge. Cash flow covers my expenses and then some. Market Appreciation is where you will make the most money over a 10-year period but is the least predictable.
BookkeepingRE - Bookkeeping for Real Estate & Service-Based Businesses58 Reviews - 2yBonnie LowPro MemberLender · Asheville, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Juliette Olsen:
Quote from @Bonnie Low:
I don't have a dog in this fight because I do both. For my LTRs I use a PM and for my MTRs & STRs I self manage (both local and OOS) so I've seen the pros and cons to both. It is definitely possible to manage your own properties unless you simply don't want the hassle. There are abundant tools and resources and plenty of people to learn from in order to set yourself up for success. Sure, there are horror stories but those happen with professional PM in place also. If you have the proper legal documents in place and a strong tenant vetting process you can avoid much of the risk, though it's never fool proof, even with a PM.
You’ve seen both sides, which is awesome. I’m wondering what your vetting process is for tenants. @Alecia Loveless mentions having a good feel for tenants, and I think that’s amazing she is skilled in that. I am not sure I’d be so great at this or at lease I not sure I’m willing to risk. So looking for recommendations on vetting. I’ve read to have your criteria high but not so high you’re sitting on your hands for 3+ months to Find the perfect tenant.
Appreciate your insight !!
respectfully, julietteGreat question, Juliette. I know a lot of people use an application. I don't. I DO start with some informal conversation to get a general sense of the person. These are basic questions like what brings you to Redding? What type of property are you looking for and do you have pets? Even if this information has been provided in their initial inquiry, I'll ask it again. Then I explain my process in brief and simple terms: background check, lease agreement, collect deposits and ask if they'd like to proceed. I've used both Avail and Keycheck for background check (credit check, criminal record and eviction history) but am currently using Turbo Tenant because they partner with the banking/bookkeeping platform I use, Baselane, and I like to keep it all in one place. I'm looking for a minimum 620 credit score and no late payments in the last 12 months. No evictions. For criminal record you have to use your own judgement and follow the rules for your state. Some states don't allow you to screen out felons, others do. You just have to be consistent and apply the same standards to everyone.
- Accountant · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2019 · 247 posts · 134 votes2y
The decision depends on your personal circumstances, preferences, and resources. Some landlords start with self-management to save costs and gain experience, then switch to professional management as their portfolio grows or their circumstances change.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2023 · 106 posts · 64 votes2yShort answer - yes, you can self-manage. The question is, do you want to, or more importantly, are you the type of person who should.
Quote from @Juliette Olsen:
Hi!
We’re planning to rent our home when we move—but we know we will be moving out of state.
Question is:
Self manage out of state?
OR
Hire property manager and eat the costs until you have cash flow coming in?
What’s the major perks in your opinion of having a property manager? Are they worth the costs?Share your stories! And if you are a property manager company in Orlando, Fl, would love to chat.
With gratitude,
Juliette
I work for a property management company here in Orlando and have many friends that self-manage, and do it well. I've also assisted self-managing sales leads when they run into issues, who continue to make the same mistakes, costing themselves tens of thousands of dollars.
If I was you, I would shop around and talk to different property managers, see what they offer and learn about all that property management entails. Being OOS it is far more difficult to manage IMO, but it can be done.
I would love to schedule a call with you to discuss property management and see if it is something you can do yourself, or based on your situation, would hiring a PM be the better option. We can then discuss what to look for in a PM and what type of manager you are looking for. - Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 277 votes2y
Quote from @Juliette Olsen:
Hi!
We’re planning to rent our home when we move—but we know we will be moving out of state.
Question is:
Self manage out of state?
OR
Hire property manager and eat the costs until you have cash flow coming in?
What’s the major perks in your opinion of having a property manager? Are they worth the costs?Share your stories! And if you are a property manager company in Orlando, Fl, would love to chat.
With gratitude,
Juliette@Juliette Olsen we do manage long term rental properties in Orlando and there are plenty of great companies here, but obviously not all of them out there are great, so it might take a little work finding them. Happy to give some other names I think do a good job as well.
Without going into crazy detail on things, here's the pros and cons of each
Self management is easy when everything goes well. It's not too hard to market it online, anyone can post to Zillow and pay for it, and people can apply right through there. You can pick someone, they can pay before they move in and if they're great people who pay on time, genuinely take care of the place, never cause or have issues, and pay on time consistently, then property management is easy. And that could very well be the case and may of our properties and residents are like that to a certain degree.
The problem is we are always dealing with one issue or another across all the properties we manage, and some of them are awful, time sucking, soul sucking issues that are no fun to deal with; and we know what we're doing. If your self managing there are a lot of things you may not know, and if you don't have it set up right from the beginning or do something improperly you're going to have a really rough time. It could be something simple like making sure you have a legally compliant lease, or how to properly serve a 3-day notice for late rent, or could be more sophisticated of how to communicate with residents when their 4-year-old shoved their toy in the garbage disposal and they don't want to pay for it. Or maybe they are supposed to be taking care of the lawn and you get a letter from the city for violations because the grass is too tall. Or god forbid a pipe bursts or the sewers back up and you have to navigate that scenario. Even worse if it's at 2 AM.
I don't know what's right for you, and with the online resources today being able to manage remotely only gets easier and easier, but property management is still a very labor-intensive business on average, and I would guess that eventually, a problem will pop up that you wish you weren't the one that had to deal with it. However, if you are okay with tackling those problems, then you can save a good chunk of change every year by doing it yourself.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 277 votes2y
Quote from @Juliette Olsen:
Quote from @Bonnie Low:
I don't have a dog in this fight because I do both. For my LTRs I use a PM and for my MTRs & STRs I self manage (both local and OOS) so I've seen the pros and cons to both. It is definitely possible to manage your own properties unless you simply don't want the hassle. There are abundant tools and resources and plenty of people to learn from in order to set yourself up for success. Sure, there are horror stories but those happen with professional PM in place also. If you have the proper legal documents in place and a strong tenant vetting process you can avoid much of the risk, though it's never fool proof, even with a PM.
You’ve seen both sides, which is awesome. I’m wondering what your vetting process is for tenants. @Alecia Loveless mentions having a good feel for tenants, and I think that’s amazing she is skilled in that. I am not sure I’d be so great at this or at lease I not sure I’m willing to risk. So looking for recommendations on vetting. I’ve read to have your criteria high but not so high you’re sitting on your hands for 3+ months to Find the perfect tenant.
Appreciate your insight !!
respectfully, juliette@Juliette Olsen Also, to answer this, we have pretty strict criteria. Firstly, you should come up with it and write it down somewhere. God forbid someone tries to claim you violated fair housing for denying them, you can point to your criteria and where they violated it and it had nothing to do with a protected class. If you want to take it a step further, email it to yourself or mail it to yourself so you have the postmark so you can show when it was created.
Here's ours, you could also look at a bunch of listed homes for rent similar to yours and see what they list as their criteria or call the companies and ask to find out what others do.
All adults who wish to live there must apply and pay app fees (it makes us money, but there is a cost to run background/credit checks too, so I would at least charge something, it also means the person applying is more serious)
3x rent combined verifiable income of applicants. Anyone self-employed is 2 years of tax returns. Child support and alimony we generally don't consider, social security and disability we do.
620 credit score for all applicants, we will conditionally approve people slightly low on a case by case basis with increased security deposit
As a general rule, an applicant that has been convicted of a 1st Degree, 2nd Degree, Life, or Capital Felony, or any crime involving the sale or possession of controlled substances, within 10 years preceding the date of application within the last 10 years will be denied. We abide by the HUD General Counsel Guidance published April 4, 2016.
No outstanding balances for previous rentals, medical, and student debt we tend to be okay with, don't want to see a lot of outstanding collections in general.
We use petscreening.com for any service or ESA animals, costs the landlord nothing.
Security deposit equal to 1 months rent or more.
It's cheaper to be strict upfront with slightly longer vacancy than have unpaid rent in the future.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.