Lessons learned from wholesale deal turned into lawsuit

Lessons learned from wholesale deal turned into lawsuit

Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Originally Posted by  John ChapmanPOSTER  Investor Dallas, TX

"This is a kind embarrassing/bizarre story, but I figured I'd share it since everyone and there brother is getting into wholesaling. Basically, I was approached about buying a buy-and-hold home from a wholesaler in a decent area. I wasn't super excited but didn't have anything else going on. Long story short, we agreed to do a double close instead of an assignment" . . .

He accused the wholesaler of breaching the contract . . .

"I had enough, had the wholesaler assign me his claim, and sued the seller in state court. I'm a litigator so I did it myself. In the end, the seller settled with me and sold me the home, but this was only after I aggressively litigated the case. (Attorney fees would have easily been $15,000 if I had paid someone else to do it.)"

Here's what I took away from the lesson:

  • Wholesaling sure seems like a lot of work to avoid licensing requirements. 
  • All of this likely could have been avoided if I could have simply directly paid the wholesaler a referral fee, but I couldn't do that because he didn't have a license.
  • Even if a wholesaler fully discloses that he is reselling the home or assigning the contract for a fee, there is going to be a certain percentage of sellers who are going to freak out and be pissed. This blows up deals and leaves the wholesaler in a bad place.
  • The chances of a wholesale deal blowing up are higher simply by virtue of the fact that there are additional parties involved.
  • Wholesaling should only be done by sophisticated and experienced investors who are selling to other sophisticated and experienced investors. There's just too much that can go wrong.

ps://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/363982-lesso...

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

@Account Closed

Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

so thats my side of the coin. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    Originally Posted by  John ChapmanPOSTER  Investor Dallas, TX

    "This is a kind embarrassing/bizarre story, but I figured I'd share it since everyone and there brother is getting into wholesaling. Basically, I was approached about buying a buy-and-hold home from a wholesaler in a decent area. I wasn't super excited but didn't have anything else going on. Long story short, we agreed to do a double close instead of an assignment" . . .

    He accused the wholesaler of breaching the contract . . .

    "I had enough, had the wholesaler assign me his claim, and sued the seller in state court. I'm a litigator so I did it myself. In the end, the seller settled with me and sold me the home, but this was only after I aggressively litigated the case. (Attorney fees would have easily been $15,000 if I had paid someone else to do it.)"

    Here's what I took away from the lesson:

    • Wholesaling sure seems like a lot of work to avoid licensing requirements. 
    • All of this likely could have been avoided if I could have simply directly paid the wholesaler a referral fee, but I couldn't do that because he didn't have a license.
    • Even if a wholesaler fully discloses that he is reselling the home or assigning the contract for a fee, there is going to be a certain percentage of sellers who are going to freak out and be pissed. This blows up deals and leaves the wholesaler in a bad place.
    • The chances of a wholesale deal blowing up are higher simply by virtue of the fact that there are additional parties involved.
    • Wholesaling should only be done by sophisticated and experienced investors who are selling to other sophisticated and experienced investors. There's just too much that can go wrong.

    ps://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/363982-lesso...

    • Wholesaling should only be done by sophisticated and experienced investors who are selling to other sophisticated and experienced investors. There's just too much that can go wrong.
    I don’t know about the other points, but the one I quoted above I believe totally.  And guess what?  It’s even more true for subject to deals!
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Realtor · Dallas - Fort Worth Metroplex, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 925 votes
    3y

    @Mike Hern thank you for sharing. The amount of times I have heard newbie investors wanting to go with a wholesaler because they “think” they are getting a smokin’ deal.

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Lucia Rushton:

    @Mike Hern thank you for sharing. The amount of times I have heard newbie investors wanting to go with a wholesaler because they “think” they are getting a smokin’ deal.

    These kinds of storys are all over, I'm simply bringing them to light.
  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Recently at some training at investor friendly title company.   They said 70 % of the wholesale deals they start don't close.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed@Don Konipol@Bruce Lynn@Lucia Rushton

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

    @Jerryll Noorden: Here's the difference. Pilots are trained, tested, have to have a certain number of hours per type of plane to be certified, have their vision tested, have to have the tower's permision to take off or land, can lose their license if they fly drunk or don't pass a physical and so on. If you are a pilot, everybody knows and your reputation is on the line.

    Wholesalers can knock on doors and get someone to "sell" them their house, which they never close on or tie up title or make false promises and can do all of that without any supervision. Or, they can take the property Subject To and screw up the credit of the seller. They don't have a license to lose.  Even a rocket scientist can figure that one out. :-)

     Like this one:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1140632-scammer-sentenced-to-20-years-for-real-estate-scheme-can-wholesalers-be-charged

    or this one

    https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/equity-skimming-tale-of-a-local-home-sale-and-a-lawsuit/

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed@Don Konipol@Bruce Lynn@Lucia Rushton

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

    Maybe,

    But for one:

    keep this in mind. You have been doing it longer, but that doesn't mean you are better (or smarter)! There is a big difference.

    Then second, this was never a battle between you and me. This is not even a debate about, which individual is better than the other.  This is not even about whether or not wholesalers are bad vs. good.

    This is simply about,  and please focus: "not because you constantly hear horror stories about  wholesale deals gone wrong does it mean wholesaling is bad, or wholesalers are bad, or that people shouldn't do wholesaling."

    Remember this is a concept you don't seem to understand.

    To disprove your theory that bigfoot can't or doesn't exist, all I have to do is show one case where your theory doesn't hold and I win. So all I would have to do is show that ONE exists and your theory falls apart.

    And that is the only thing I did. I helped a seller where an agent couldn't help them. (And btw, it is not just about whether or not you CAN help them or do what ever a wholesaler can do. Have you ever considered that the seller doesn't WANT your help? Even when you can do everything I do? You didn't did you? A lot of sellers have settled for a lower offer just to work with me. You just don't understand this concept with your ton of years of experience, so I won't even try to make sense of this, however, this is a fact. See, your years of experience doesn't mean smarter or better. 

    All these stories about bad wholesalers and wholesale deals have the haters constantly ham,mer this forum that wholesaling is bad, don't you do it.

    Well, all I have to do to prove wholesaleing is not bad is show one case that a wholesale deal helped someone where an agent couldn't and I win.

    Now let's take your case.

    You do the exact opposite

    What you did was prove that you, and specifically you, can do anything a wholesaler does, doesn't at all prove that all agents or all people can do what a wholesaler can offer.

    In other words,  All dogs are animals, sure, but that doesn't imply all animals are dogs.

    So I give you this, very nice try, but nope, you are factually and scientifically wrong here my friend!

    Again, let's assume you can do whatever I can do (I highly doubt that), that doesn't mean what you are trying to prove here is correct. Again, the debate is not about "hey I can do this.. so that implies, everyone can solve the problems that wholesalers can solve.

    Again do not let years of experience (doing it right, or wrong) lead you to believe you are good at something. I am not saying you are not good at this.  All I am saying you are not "better than me" because you have been doing this longer. All that means is that you are probably just older than me, and maybe have more money than me. But that is pretty much all you can conclude. Doing it longer doesn't make you smarter than me, or more tech-savvy than me, or more resourceful than me ;)

    Capiche?

    ;)

    Then I don't care about who is better enough to make this a big deal honestly. All I am saying is don't let all these horror stories scare you (all the new people out there).

    peace out.

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed@Don Konipol@Bruce Lynn@Lucia Rushton

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

     Maybe,

    For one:

    keep this in mind. You have been doing it longer, but that doesn't mean you are better! There is a big difference.

    Then second, this was never a battle between you and me. This is not even a debate about, which individual is better than the other.  This is not even about whether or not wholesalers are bad vs good.

    This is simply about,  and please focus: "not because you constantly hear horror stories about  whoelsale deals gone wrong does it mean wholesaling is bad, or wholesalers are bad, or that people shouldn't do wholesaling."

    Remember this is a concept you don't seem to understand.

    To disprove your theory that bigfoot can't or doesn't  exist, all I have to do is show that ONE exists and your theory falls apart.

    And that is the only thing I did.

    All these stories about bad wholesalers and wholesale deals have the haters constantly ham,mer this forum that wholesaling is bad, don't you do it.

    Well, all I have to do to prove wholesaleing is not bad is show one case that a wholesale deal helped someone where an agent couldn't and I win.

    Now let's take your case.

    You do the exact opposite

    What you did was prove that you, and specifically you, can do anything a wholesaler does, doesn't at all prove that all agents or all people can do what a wholesaler can offer.

    In other words,  All dogs are animals, sure, but that doesn't imply all animals are dogs.

    So I give you this, very nice try, but nope, you are factually and scientifically wrong here my friend!

    Again, let's assume you can do whatever I can do (I highly doubt that), that doesn't mean what you are trying to prove here is correct. Again, the debate is not about "hey I can do this.. so that implies, everyone can solve the problems that wholesalers can solve.

    Again do not let years of experience (doing it right, or wrong) lead you to believe you are good at something. I am not saying you are not good at this.  All I am saying you are not "better than me" because you have been doing this longer. All that means is that you are probably just older than me, and maybe have more money than me. But that is pretty much all you can conclude. Doing it longer doesn't make you smarter than me, or more tech-savvy than me, or more resourceful than me ;)

    Capiche?

    ;)

    Then I don't care about who is better enough to make this a big deal honestly. All I am saying is don't let all these horror stories scare you (all the new people out there).

    peace out.

    Lol. I don't think there is any question that both of you are qualified to do wholesale.

    But, the concern is the flow of "newly minted" people coming out of Pace Morby's community that claim the community is "Great" but have no real world experience. Those are the future lawsuits waiting to happen.

    I not sure if Pace Morby is telling people that they can be sued for up to 3 years usually, for contracts and 6 years for Subject to, but he should be. Some of those law suits are felonies and should not be taken lightly by Sub To and wholesaling students. 

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    I don’t care what anyone says

    • Wholesaling should only be done by sophisticated and experienced investors who are selling to other sophisticated and experienced investors. There's just too much that can go wrong.

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    Inexperienced wholesalers have terrible close rates and as a title company you can sink a ton of $ and energy into deals going nowhere if you're not careful. So @Bruce Lynn I agree those numbers are possible.

    With experienced wholesalers the deal will close 95%+ of the time when the seller can deliver marketable title. It's rare for pros to get the numbers wrong.

    Gimer Law516 Reviews
  • Member since 2022 · 40 posts · 34 votes
    3y

    Human philosophies are filled with stories that warn against blindly following the same trodden path as the masses for good reason. Being a member of a massive pack is a good way to get trampled.

    Wholesaling has merit, but like anything, it has to be done with close care and consideration. Unfortunately, this is not the message that is shared with the masses. Most people are lured in with the most basic of knowledge and a 'just wing it' mentality that is propagated by certain corners of the internet outside of BP. The end result is legal headaches and bad deals for all parties involved.

    It has been a year since I started my real estate journey. It has been slow, but I see myself at the start of an exponential curve. The early years require deep reading, the development of systems and processes, and some carefully structured deals that are done with good due diligence. It also necessitates an understanding of the law — and at least a tacet understanding about where being an investor ends and where needing a licensed agent starts. After reading stories like the one in the OP, I am glad that I found this community and have continued to educate myself.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    Wholesalers, when successful , are exploiting (and I use the term exploiting without any derogatory meaning) inefficiencies in the market.  The inefficiencies have decreased over time, so successfully finding, vetting, analyzing, negotiating, marketing and closing on a property you can contract to purchase at one price and then sell at a higher price without “touching” the property is a lot harder than it was in 1980.  

    Licensed real estate brokers have established an almost national (NYC exception) “path” or formula for the brokering of residential real estate.  Despite numerous attempts and hundreds of millions of $ spent by companies trying to disrupt the status quo, little has actually changed.  Yes, listings are universally available on many websites.  However, the standard 6% commission, with 3 to buyer agent and 3 to seller agent is still the most dominate formula.  

    The “wholesaler” (really a “flipper” in that he “flips” the contract over to an end buyer) needs to find a “gap” in the Realtor formula.  That gap is most often found with situations in which the Realtors are disinterested, or weak.  For example a house with a market value below a certain amount is not of interest to Realtors since the amount of commission doesn’t compensate for the time necessary to reach a successful transaction completion.  Another “gap” is houses needing substantial repairs; since most Realtors deal with owner occupants and not rehabbing specialist investors, they don’t aggressively chase those listings, leaving a gap that the wholesaler can fill.  Sellers needing or wanting to close quickly, and willing to accept a large discount to do so, seem to confuse the Realtor to the extent that most Realtors can only list the property and then attempt to attract a buyer by the low price, while the wholesaler can offer an immediate purchase contract.  The immediate purchase contract looks a lot better to this type seller than the listing and wait alternative.  Hopefully, the wholesaler would be able to close on the contract and not “leave the seller hanging”. 

    Perhaps the most confusing of all sellers are those that just plain don’t want to get involved with brokers.  I’m not sure anyone truly understands why they’d willingly give up thousands of $ to do so, but I’ve come across this type a number of times.  If someone were to approach them with dollars in cash and hand it over, I believe they’d happily sign over a warranty deed on the spot for a large discount on top of their already agreed discount.  They just don’t want “hassle” in their life.  

    So, the criticism of wholesaling is not that wholesalers can’t or don’t “add value”, in fact they do.  And granted, some of the over the top criticism from Realtors is trying to protect their position in the food chain, and wanting to ensure a level playing field with all participants licensed. But the real important criticism is (1) wholesalers who don’t disclose to the seller that they are not the end buyer and that they will only close IF they can flip the contract at a higher price and or (2) unknowledgeable and inexperienced wholesalers who screw up the transaction from beginning to end in too many ways to mention and hence leave the seller with disappointment, frustration, anger, and quite often financial problems. 

    Many state governments have attempted to “rein in” wholesalers by bringing them under licensing regulations.  The early attempts to do such failed because of the way the state licensing commissions operated; their big “hammer” was to suspend or revoke a violators license.  Since wholesalers didn’t have licenses, this punishment was obviously ineffective.  More recent legislation has focused on (1) establishing that wholesaling falls under the brokerage license regulations and is not a property “purchase” but a method of real estate brokering (2) that wholesalers owe sellers everything in terms of real estate board  regulations that “regular” brokers do and (3) that by licensing wholesalers they have attended the prescribed educational requirements and passed the licensing exam to establish a certain minimal level of knowledge and (4) that as new salespersons the licensed wholesaler is “sponsored” by a licensed broker. 

    There are work arounds for the wholesaler who is not licensed; however these tend to be cumbersome and an added expense to the process.  But, I will tell you what I believe very strongly.  Even if they will not be licensed I believe that it would be most beneficial for a new wholesaler to complete the real estate licensing course.  It will provide a great deal of knowledge concerning the principles of real estate and real estate laws specific to the state of operation. In fact it would be a lot more beneficial than studying the information available from wholesaling gurus, which I find to be self servicing, misleading, often incorrect, not applicable to many jurisdictions, outdated, and often just plain stupid. 

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Comment deleted by respondent.

  • Stafford, VA · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    3y

    @Jerryll Noorden I would add that everyone has to do there 1st deal. And everyone won’t have the luxury of only working with experienced savvy investors.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Hassan Brown:

    @Jerryll Noorden I would add that everyone has to do there 1st deal. And everyone won’t have the luxury of only working with experienced savvy investors.


     correct. You need to start somewhere.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed@Don Konipol@Bruce Lynn@Lucia Rushton

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

     Maybe,

    For one:

    keep this in mind. You have been doing it longer, but that doesn't mean you are better! There is a big difference.

    Then second, this was never a battle between you and me. This is not even a debate about, which individual is better than the other.  This is not even about whether or not wholesalers are bad vs good.

    This is simply about,  and please focus: "not because you constantly hear horror stories about  whoelsale deals gone wrong does it mean wholesaling is bad, or wholesalers are bad, or that people shouldn't do wholesaling."

    Remember this is a concept you don't seem to understand.

    To disprove your theory that bigfoot can't or doesn't  exist, all I have to do is show that ONE exists and your theory falls apart.

    And that is the only thing I did.

    All these stories about bad wholesalers and wholesale deals have the haters constantly ham,mer this forum that wholesaling is bad, don't you do it.

    Well, all I have to do to prove wholesaleing is not bad is show one case that a wholesale deal helped someone where an agent couldn't and I win.

    Now let's take your case.

    You do the exact opposite

    What you did was prove that you, and specifically you, can do anything a wholesaler does, doesn't at all prove that all agents or all people can do what a wholesaler can offer.

    In other words,  All dogs are animals, sure, but that doesn't imply all animals are dogs.

    So I give you this, very nice try, but nope, you are factually and scientifically wrong here my friend!

    Again, let's assume you can do whatever I can do (I highly doubt that), that doesn't mean what you are trying to prove here is correct. Again, the debate is not about "hey I can do this.. so that implies, everyone can solve the problems that wholesalers can solve.

    Again do not let years of experience (doing it right, or wrong) lead you to believe you are good at something. I am not saying you are not good at this.  All I am saying you are not "better than me" because you have been doing this longer. All that means is that you are probably just older than me, and maybe have more money than me. But that is pretty much all you can conclude. Doing it longer doesn't make you smarter than me, or more tech-savvy than me, or more resourceful than me ;)

    Capiche?

    ;)

    Then I don't care about who is better enough to make this a big deal honestly. All I am saying is don't let all these horror stories scare you (all the new people out there).

    peace out.

    Lol. I don't think there is any question that both of you are qualified to do wholesale.

    But, the concern is the flow of "newly minted" people coming out of Pace Morby's community that claim the community is "Great" but have no real world experience. Those are the future lawsuits waiting to happen.

    I not sure if Pace Morby is telling people that they can be sued for up to 3 years usually, for contracts and 6 years for Subject to, but he should be. Some of those law suits are felonies and should not be taken lightly by Sub To and wholesaling students. 

     Totally agreed. I never said I didn't agree with you. What I am touching on is that I wish that every time someone said something bad about wholesaling, or wholesalers they also would include 2 or 3 cases where something positive came out of wholesaling.  That is all my point is.

    Agian, I 100% agree with everything you said, hence when I responded I didn't say "I disagree" I said,  "yes sure, but here is also another side of the coin".

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

    Let me be the voice of the other side of the coin. You often hear about the bad wholesalers and the deals gone wrong.

    Like plane crashes, you never hear about planes that safely landed. If you only keep a look out for when planes crash you will be terrified to fly in a plane.

    Yes be aware and learn from the bad apples out there, but also be aware that bad occurrences don't make wholesaling bad. Like a feller aboive me said. know what you are doing before you actually do it.

    I have a solid track record of sellers inviting me for dinners after the deal went through, as we helped them get out of a pickle no real estate agent could fix. Plenty of times. Now imagine if EVERYONE started sharing their wholesale deals gone right. It would bring wholesaling in an entirely different light.

    @Account Closed@Don Konipol@Bruce Lynn@Lucia Rushton

    Jerryll  now I am going to take the other other side of the coin.. As Broker for Ahem 49 years :) I submit there is no deal that you can do that I cannot and same with many  experienced agents.

    And I submit there are deals I can do that you simply could not because U and the vast majority of wholesalers simply dont have the depth and breadth of experience as I do or many pro's on this site have..

    Wholesalers over promise and under deliver all the time. And while some are pretty sharp thats not the norm far from it.. I mean I close a lot of deals with wholesalers on them and most of the time they are just flaying away and if it was not for me bringing the deals back to center they would never close.

    so thats my side of the coin. 

     Maybe,

    For one:

    keep this in mind. You have been doing it longer, but that doesn't mean you are better! There is a big difference.

    Then second, this was never a battle between you and me. This is not even a debate about, which individual is better than the other.  This is not even about whether or not wholesalers are bad vs good.

    This is simply about,  and please focus: "not because you constantly hear horror stories about  whoelsale deals gone wrong does it mean wholesaling is bad, or wholesalers are bad, or that people shouldn't do wholesaling."

    Remember this is a concept you don't seem to understand.

    To disprove your theory that bigfoot can't or doesn't  exist, all I have to do is show that ONE exists and your theory falls apart.

    And that is the only thing I did.

    All these stories about bad wholesalers and wholesale deals have the haters constantly ham,mer this forum that wholesaling is bad, don't you do it.

    Well, all I have to do to prove wholesaleing is not bad is show one case that a wholesale deal helped someone where an agent couldn't and I win.

    Now let's take your case.

    You do the exact opposite

    What you did was prove that you, and specifically you, can do anything a wholesaler does, doesn't at all prove that all agents or all people can do what a wholesaler can offer.

    In other words,  All dogs are animals, sure, but that doesn't imply all animals are dogs.

    So I give you this, very nice try, but nope, you are factually and scientifically wrong here my friend!

    Again, let's assume you can do whatever I can do (I highly doubt that), that doesn't mean what you are trying to prove here is correct. Again, the debate is not about "hey I can do this.. so that implies, everyone can solve the problems that wholesalers can solve.

    Again do not let years of experience (doing it right, or wrong) lead you to believe you are good at something. I am not saying you are not good at this.  All I am saying you are not "better than me" because you have been doing this longer. All that means is that you are probably just older than me, and maybe have more money than me. But that is pretty much all you can conclude. Doing it longer doesn't make you smarter than me, or more tech-savvy than me, or more resourceful than me ;)

    Capiche?

    ;)

    Then I don't care about who is better enough to make this a big deal honestly. All I am saying is don't let all these horror stories scare you (all the new people out there).

    peace out.

    Lol. I don't think there is any question that both of you are qualified to do wholesale.

    But, the concern is the flow of "newly minted" people coming out of Pace Morby's community that claim the community is "Great" but have no real world experience. Those are the future lawsuits waiting to happen.

    I not sure if Pace Morby is telling people that they can be sued for up to 3 years usually, for contracts and 6 years for Subject to, but he should be. Some of those law suits are felonies and should not be taken lightly by Sub To and wholesaling students. 

     Totally agreed. I never said I didn't agree with you. What I am touching on is that I wish that every time someone said something bad about wholesaling, or wholesalers they also would include 2 or 3 cases where something positive came out of wholesaling.  That is all my point is.

    Agian, I 100% agree with everything you said, hence when I responded I didn't say "I disagree" I said,  "yes sure, but here is also another side of the coin".


    its a 3 sided coin.. for all the heartwarming stories you talk about.. I can give you many disasters when I was for about 3 years only doing foreclosure rescue and court house steps buying.  Not a month would go by and I would talk to someone that I just bought their home on the courthouse steps they would be in denial because the nice wholesaler had given them a purchase contract strung them along and never closed and they lost the house.. Same thing for Crappy loan officers stringing these folks along as well.. Or the wholesaler who talked them into deeding the home owner to them with NO MONEY.. and did not perform.. I unwound a few of those. by simply calling this person who got the owner to sign it over and let them know I was going to fund the ligitigation against them and go straight to the DA.. quit claim deeds filed back these folks next day sometimes I bought those other times I had them list it with a Broker so they could maximize their cash for their home.. I dont sell houses.. I have not brokered at the street level for a few decades.. I keep my brokers license so i can legally lend Money in California.  So I know a lot of wholesalers think I am coming from the place that I think your taking business from me.. thats not it at all.. I fund deals every week that some wholesaler is making money.. But I do have my principals and if i see some whopper wholesaler fee I wont fund it.. my clients either need to re negotiate or find another lender.  

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