Newbie Wholesalers - don't be THIS Guy

Newbie Wholesalers - don't be THIS Guy

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

During my closing today - I wholesaled a house in Zion, Illinois and made $5,309.84 - my real estate attorney approached me and introduced me to a real estate agent - let's call her Pam.  I can see a sense of skepticism in her eyes...and later, I learned why.

My real estate attorney has just talked with Frank - a newbie wholesaler. Pam was working with Frank for the past couple of months. Pam called my attorney to seek help.

Pam submitted 25 offers for Frank and got 5 offers accepted. She thought she would be cashing in but she got the surprise of her life when she found that Frank has NO EARNEST MONEY to lock up those 5 deals. Frank used a Proof of Funds provided by the "gurus". And get this: Frank does not even have a car (probably sold it so he could pay the guru). Even though Pam has been a real estate agent for a long time, Frank talked a BIG game and she was convinced Frank is the real deal.

So now...Pam had to go back to all the listing agents on all 5 properties and told them that her buyer does not have the money and cannot close. Pam hates wholesalers because of Frank. BUT, my attorney explained the process to her and assured her that wholesaling is completely legal. My attorney told her I've wholesaled enough number of times and I do lock up my deals with earnest money. I offered to help her out by being able to close on the properties that Frank couldn't. So we ended the conversation in a positive way and maybe I will buy 1 of those 5 properties that Frank messed up on.

So...to all the newbie wholesalers out there...do NOT be like Frank:

1. Before you waste the time of real estate agents who will put in all these offers for you, get your act together.  @James Wise and other agents have bad experiences with wholesalers who just graduated from the guru seminars. Realtors are people too and their time is valuable, maybe even more valuable than yours.

2. You need earnest money when tying up a property listed on the MLS. That's just the reality and there's no getting around to it regardless of what the gurus say. If you don't have any earnest money, don't try flipping a house. Find a job flipping burgers and save up $500 or $1,000 instead. 

3. You need the right contract valid in your state and don't use one these "guru contracts". It makes you look like a fool or worse, you'll end up messing a deal up because your guru contract does not work in your state.

4. Don't be "trigger happy" with regard to making offers on properties all over town. I know the gurus say make 100 offers and you buy 1 property. Well, choose a market, a farm area within that market and make intelligent offers for houses in your farm area. By doing so, you don't waste the realtor's time.

5. If you don't have any money...here's an option for you: partner with an experienced wholesaler in your town and work for him or her. Find him a great deal. He puts in the earnest money and coach you as well. You do the work, he takes the risks so he deserves to make more money than you. And last but not the least ....

6. Don't pay any guru thousands of dollars. Listen to the BP Podcast, read the BP blogs, network with BP folks...specially in your market. And keep those few thousand dollars as your earnest money and your marketing budget instead.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
11y

@Anson Smith   something just does not sound right that you would knowingly tie up property without any intention of putting up EM only EM if you find a buyer.

I guess I just hold Real Estate to a different standard of and code of conduct and ethics. And a basic principal that if one gets into the business at least cobble enough money together to put up EM... and be proud that you can... 

In the timber business we called those that tied up timber stands and had no money and no ability to close  Timber Pimps  they were just pimping contracts. 

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  • Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2012 · 397 posts · 187 votes
    12y

    Yes @Wendell De Guzman 

    AND, don't be the wholesaler who goes and puts what should be a $10k-15k mls property (that you didn't do any homework on) ... listed for $30k ... for $25k, trying to sell at it's listed value ... 

    Do your homework.  Have your stuff together.  Have a deal that makes sense, and money, for the investors you are wholesaling to!

    Not that I had that experience in the last ... 2 weeks ... or anything :)

  • Real Estate Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2008 · 289 posts · 80 votes
    12y

    EMD aka (consideration), Maybe the guru left that part out in their swiss cheese expensive courses. LOl..

  • Weston, FL · Member since 2014 · 55 posts · 8 votes
    12y

    @Wendell De Guzman You just gave me a great idea of how to kick start my real estate career.  I will become one of those wholesaling guros and make tons of money by giving people bad advice!  You have to admit, these guys are pretty genius in their ability to get people to sign up.

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 200 votes
    11y

    @Wendell De Guzman 

    What is a guru POF look like?

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @John Weidner , I don't know. I'm not a guru. But I guess just a letter stating that there are funds available. Most likely it's not a bank account statement or a verifiable proof of funds.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Edgar Collado:

    @Wendell De Guzman You just gave me a great idea of how to kick start my real estate career.  I will become one of those wholesaling guros and make tons of money by giving people bad advice!  You have to admit, these guys are pretty genius in their ability to get people to sign up.

     You're a funny guy Edgar. But who knows? Maybe I will see you in late night infomercial as the next real estate guru superstar...sitting by a pool surrounded by beautiful women (LOL).

  • Reynoldsburg, OH · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    what he did is how you whoesale. What was missing is the end buyer. End buyers always put up the earnest money. My contracts states the earnest money is due in 14 business days or the contract voids. This gives me time to find my end buyer.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Anson Smith   something just does not sound right that you would knowingly tie up property without any intention of putting up EM only EM if you find a buyer.

    I guess I just hold Real Estate to a different standard of and code of conduct and ethics. And a basic principal that if one gets into the business at least cobble enough money together to put up EM... and be proud that you can... 

    In the timber business we called those that tied up timber stands and had no money and no ability to close  Timber Pimps  they were just pimping contracts. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greensboro, NC · Member since 2010 · 623 posts · 615 votes
    11y

    Newbies: it's all about ethics. 

    Be truthful, don't lie, do what you say you will do, wash your hands, take naps.

    Aren't these all things we learned in kindergarten???

  • Reynoldsburg, OH · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    there is full disclosure to the seller that i am partnering with buyers. If the property fits the criteria the deal will move along. The newbie in this case did not disclose there intentions or didn't know how to seal the deal. 

    Newbies: dont let anyone scare you off that you need a bunch of money to be in the business.

  • Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2014 · 238 posts · 230 votes
    11y

    @Anson Smith full disclosure or not... you should have EMD if you are going to tie up a property. Else, where is the consideration to make the contract binding for either party? Just out of curiosity, how many homeowners have you been able to hood-wink without giving them a dollar?

    I am with @Jay Hinrichs ; I hold it to a higher standard, but there should be at-least a minimum standard... If you do not have enough confidence in your ability to resell a contract, you should not be tying up someone's property.

    Moreover, I reimburse my wholesalers for their EM deposit once the contract reassignment is signed... So their cash out-of-pocket is days at most.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Mitch Coluzzi 

      this issue as I see it is this person that has no money and is tying up property has nothing to risk.. So on its face they would like the deal to work so they get a pay day but at the end of the day if it does not ... they just shrug their shoulders with an Oh Well and sorry poor seller that I tied up your home with no real ability to close etc etc.

    This type of behavoiur is probably one of the reasons the banks and other sellers are going to demand much higher EMD .. so in the end its the very people that do not have any funds or are not willing to put their own funds up that are creating this higher EMD environment and they are shooting them selves in the foot with unintended consiquences.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    In GA earnest money is NOT required to make a contract binding. Many people do not know this.

    Now does almost 100% of sellers expect you to put up earnest money as consideration for entering a contract??? Absolutely.

    In fact many of the sellers believe earnest money has to be given for a contract to be valid which in GA is incorrect.

    Having said all of this sellers do not need to waste time with people who will not put up earnest money. They have no skin in the game. They can walk away unscathed. The buyer needs to feel the pain if they commit to a property at a good price and then back out.  If a wholesalers butt is on the line to loose a few K that will light a fire under them to perform. If instead they have no money and the property gets tough to find a buyer they just quit and waste the sellers time. If they get stung really bad a few times losing earnest money then wholesalers will have to learn how to properly evaluate property and not throw junk properties out at buyers. 

    I used to see these same type of investors take people's papers saying they could do a short sale and then were nowhere to be found. The sellers called me and they had no documents  tax returns, etc.to give the bank and the investor was nowhere to be found to get the docs back. The investor claimed to be given docs to bank but bank never received anything. Really damaged the sellers. I think you can make a buck and help people at the same time without being sleazy.

    Don't let clowns create a circus out of your property or situation.  Let them show that proof of funds bank statement. If they do not have it they are not a real buyer.

  • Reynoldsburg, OH · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    hood winked or helped? 14 days beats the 6 months an agent ties up a property by putting a sign in the yard and listing in the mls then walk away. These are the sellers that appreciate what I do. I find motivated sellers and match them  buyers that are ready and get paid for it. Whats wrong with that?

  • Wichita, KS · Member since 2013 · 235 posts · 46 votes
    11y

    Great information here @Wendell De Guzman . Being a new investor who will also be wholesaling to build my capital this thread great. I don't think many new wholesalers know you need earnest money to close deals. I know I sure didn't know at first. 

  • Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2014 · 238 posts · 230 votes
    11y

    Summary: As a professional I believe EMD should be required; thanks for making this article Wendell.

    @Anson Smith

    @Anson Smith 

    More or less curious how many transactions you can speak from experience on...

    6 months on market in my area is fairly uncommon. Esp for an under-market property (which is what you need to attract to your motivated buyer list). There is absolutely nothing wrong with wholesaling. I buy property wholesale often, they are good money makers because MLS properties can be fairly bare. I am arguing the EMD portion for the exact reason that Jay outlined above... You have zero skin in the game, at the end of 14 days you can walk away without any ramification. That seller cannot market or advertise to anyone else during that time because they have agreed to sell to you. Basically, in this case... unbeknownst to the seller you are taking a listing on the property because YOU have no intent to purchase yourself (arguably you are brokering the property, not the contract given the lack of consideration... as such you would need a broker's license to make any financial gain).

    A sign in the front yard and a listing on the MLS is bear minimum agent work (it is also an investment from the agent's side, MLS access is not cheap in most locations). In addition, if the agent takes a listing and does not post to the MLS within X days, they are fined by the board. OTHO, as a wholesaler, if you take that contract and shred it up when you get home, do nada... seller sits ideal for 2+ weeks wondering if anything is happening. Zero recourse on you, not even a $100 earnest money default consideration. Point is, there is a minimum standard for agents, but without any form of deposit there is nothing holding you accountable.

    Furthermore, even a bad agent can sell a good listing on the MLS. The basic information is sent to thousands of agents who are all motivated by closing deals. Given a typical subset of requirements, the MLS will be the best outlet for selling property.

    Of course, there are situations/exceptions for example: when people do not want to let the neighbors know they are selling or deal with the traffic of showings. Motivations are key but again... at a base level... the fact you have zero skin invested would be a huge deterrent for ME in the role of a seller and legally seems to be a risk for you...

    Combine a buyer's list with an MLS and you have yourself a semi-competent RE agent. Anson, have you considered getting a license to sell RE? Might work out well for you!

  • Brownstown, MI · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 98 votes
    11y

    And there are those of us who would even be happy to lend out EMD money for a fee :).

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Anson Smith 

      Can't compare a wholesaler tieing up a property to an Agent taking a listing.. many times the ONLY reason a listing does not sell is the SELLER is asking too much..

    @Joel Owens 

     Interesting on EM for valid contract... I know here in ORegon it is consideration that must be given... that can be cash or a something else I of value.. So in our area people use promissory notes as consideration.

  • Reynoldsburg, OH · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    in my previous post i mentioned that that there is full dosclosure to the seller. Also there  are cases where the seller also markets the property. I cant explain my business from a-z.  What I do  is totally legal and ethical. I wouldnt want to be agent. Im working for profit not commission. 

  • Darrin CareyPro Member
    Lender · Dayton, OH · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 705 votes
    11y

    @Anson Smith that mentality and method is what gives wholesalers a bad name. If you are truly disclosing that you have no intention to close on the property without an end buyer, then you are acting as an unlicensed agent. I may disagree with @James Wise on whether wholesaling requires a license, but you are an example of why people think it should.

  • Investor · Ogden, UT · Member since 2014 · 98 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    From what I understand, many wholesalers have verbiage in the contract with the seller that assures the wholesaler can always get out of the contract no matter how far along the process is.  The wholesaler takes a hit on the earnest money, but they still get out of the contract if they don't find a buyer.

    If I understand this properly, I would think arguing about ethics of EM is a bit misleading... A wholesaler can tie up a property with $500 in their pocket with no intention of closing.  That idea doesn't seem too ethical and $500 isn't a lot of skin in the game.

    As far as the person above not paying EM, don't these wholesale contracts have a due diligence period just like other contracts?  If so, you could still get out without paying EM, right?

    I don't know much about wholesaling.. am I wrong?  Just trying to learn.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Interesting on EM for valid contract... I know here in ORegon it is consideration that must be given... that can be cash or a something else I of value.. So in our area people use promissory notes as consideration.

    I'm not an attorney, but I'm fairly certain that earnest money is not required for any real estate contract to be valid (in any state).  Consideration does not need to be cash (or even something of financial value) -- for the seller, consideration is the written PROMISE to sell; for the buyer, the consideration is the written PROMISE to buy.

    This was discussed a few years ago here on BP, and I'm pretty sure there were one or two attorneys who chimed in and agreed that this is true, and is based on contract law, not real estate regulation.

    Nonetheless, it was also discussed that a contract without financial consideration may be harder to enforce and may get thrown out of court much more quickly.  So, if you're concerned about truly having equitable interest via a Purchase Agreement, it's probably a good idea to have an earnest money deposit.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Anson Smith:

    My contracts states the earnest money is due in 14 business days or the contract voids. This gives me time to find my end buyer.

    The OP mentioned a wholesaler who was putting offers on MLS listed properties. I can almost guarantee that no half-decent listing agent would recommend their client accept a contract where the EM wasn't delivered until 14 days after binding agreement.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    In GA earnest money is NOT required to make a contract binding. Many people do not know this.t

    This has come up many times on BP. EMD is not consideration. Indeed many people do not seem to know this. EMD typically has stipulations and is tied to performance and/or is refundable under certain terms, etc., which means it's not consideration. Consideration is something given.....and it doesn't have to be money. Could be the promise to buy and the promise to sell.

    EMD is important for filtering serious buyers though. I don't accept any less than $5K from cash buyers. I'm sure it comes as no surprise how many buyers this will eliminate.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

      I am with you in addition I have it released to seller after due diligence. AS you know our West coast deposits are not as easy to get to as in other states..Or maybe you don't know.

    But in other states mainly attorney states.. I can put in EM and get it back without other party acknowledging. I just make a demand for it.  As you know EM given to a west coast title co. cannot be released without both buyer and seller agreeing.

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