70,000 Mail Pieces in 2014; What Did I Get For It?

70,000 Mail Pieces in 2014; What Did I Get For It?

Real Estate Investor · Nashville TN · Member since 2009 · 287 posts · 171 votes

Here are my results after about $67K worth of direct mail cost in 2014.  It would be awesome is we could have everyone who has sent more than, say, 5,000 mail pieces, to post their REAL WORLD results as well.  

Collectively, it would be cool to see what if any patterns emerge in terms of mail pieces that have done best, what the response rates have been, the overall profit and return people have made from their direct mail efforts, etc.

This should hopefully answer a lot of newbie questions on potential response rates, how much profit they might expect from their marketing efforts, and the sheer volume of mail required to generate ANY deals at all.

The majority of lists I mail to (approx 80%) are high equity (40% or more equity) in zip codes close to me in DC metro area- all lists purchased on listsource.

All my mail pieces go to a simple, personal sounding voicemail.  I've found, after 2 years now of sending 40,000 plus mail pieces each year, that the people who hang up and don't leave messages are virtually never motivated sellers.  If they're motivated, they leave a message.  It's for this reason I don't pay for a call answering service to receive the messages.

OVERALL NUMBERS:

Spend: $67,000

Total Profit: $106,000 (not counting one I renovated and will be selling early this year)

Net Profit: $39,000

Return on Spend: 58.2% (pretty sweet)

*Note- this profit calculation does not include the cost of my time required to get this profit, which was quite significant.  This includes the initial phone call, driving out and meeting the owner at their house, follow-up until I have signed contract back, and the BS associated with title problems, seller's getting cold feet and trying to back out of contracts, and all the other stuff that comes up from contract signing to actually settling on the house.

BEST PERFORMING MAIL PIECE:

Handwritten letter on yellow lined paper with handwritten invitation (A6) sized envelope in random colors (pink, light blue, yellow, etc)

I have graphics on BOTH the letter and the envelope- things like dollar signs, stars, arrows, houses, etc- whatever random stuff I could think of to make the letter more eye catching and 'WTF' eliciting when opened by the homeowner, so they would actually read it.

SECOND BEST PERFORMING MAIL PIECE:

5.5 x 11 inch yellow post card (big post card) with somewhat handwritten looking font.  Includes various graphics (similar to the yellow letter)- i.e. star, house, arrows, etc.

MAIN THOUGHT AFTER THIS PAST YEAR:

Hypothetically discussing what might and might not work when it comes to direct mail is only worthwhile to the extent it provides new ideas for things to test in the real world. Beyond that, trying to imagine what will or will not do well is pointless.  

Only way to know what will or will not work is to pick ONE variable and split test it by sending each half of mail pieces exactly the same, to same list, with the exception of the one variable you are trying to test. 

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Realtor · Lafayette, LA · Member since 2011 · 297 posts · 175 votes
11y

Seems risky to me. I can call 5 fsbos a day(Free) as a realtor, list their house and make $100,000 every 4 months. That's a net of $100,000. 

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    we answer almost all live.  Some still go to voicemail however they're called back fast.  

  • Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
    11y

    Out of curiosity, when computing the "substantial amount of time" you invested in all this, what would you say your hourly rate of return (pay) was for doing this?  I know of founding shareholders in certain tech companies that basically work for years starting and growing the company (with no pay or benefits), only to sell it 5 years later for $100M.  When all is said and done, after Angel and VC dilution of their shares, followed by the grand buy-out, they are left with the equivalent of having been paid $200,000/year without retirement or medical benefits.  The opportunity cost is real - they could have been making $125K at another mature company as employees, with paid vacation, medical leave, employee profit sharing, and a 401(k) plan.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Lew Payne

      love ya but some times your a real downer.. LOL.. your right many look at up side and many should just stay where they are at..

    I grew up and lived in Cupertino all my life.. so I saw it first hand.. many engineers were making 300k a year in the 80's no need to risk anything

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 39 votes
    11y

    @Jonathan C.

    Wow.  This business would not be anywhere near as exciting if I had to spend that kind of money for a return.   I would imagine your cash flow becomes tight at times.  Right now we are sitting at 10.09% YTD.  Ex: Spend $1,000 Profit $10,000.  You should be aiming for 10-20%.  

    I would ditch the voicemail and would completely disagree with "hangups are not motivated".  I called back a hangup last year and cleared 38K on it.  It's sometimes hard, but don't judge the callers until you're sitting at their kitchen table.  

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    You can always use PatLive.com as an answering service

    Prospects need to feel valued and important

  • Professional · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 397 posts · 34 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan C.:

    Trying to clarify -- so you spent $67,000 in direct mail expenses, generated $106,000 in revenue and a net profit of $39,000? What was the total number of deals and average earning per deal? Do you feel you need to spend more to make more or perhaps revise, tweak and tighten the strategy/process?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Chris Uhler

      my dad taught me the business so at 18 with my RE license freshly minted.... we never talked to clients on the phone.. only to set an appointment.. top agents who try to prequel on the phone lose deal after deal.. to easy for the seller ( mark) to dismiss you.

    there is technique to working a seller in person as well. you must learn these techniques if your going to be successful... I think most of these folks who try to get into wholesaling houses totally do it *** backwards.. IE they spend big bucks in marketing without a clue as to how to sell.. And to make the statement hangups are not motivated shows how naïve the OP is about the real estate sales world...

    Once folks realize this is a belly to belly business their close ratios go way up... now of course if the sellers are out of area or out of state then you MUST give good phone to be successful and that is another discipline you must learn.. you must be very good.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Jonathan C have you gotten more deals from last year's mailings that have come since you posted this?  A number of my deals have come months, and even years after I sent the first mail to them.

  • Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2011 · 81 posts · 97 votes
    11y

    I love this! Thank you for your insight. My office is just a tad behind pace to buy 100 houses in 2015. 

    We mail 8,000 pieces / mo.

    We build our own lists and then have a profiler edit the list down to the top 30,000 prospects.

    We use 2 Ph#s in or pieces; We use a ph# directly to an acquisitions closer and we use a LiveComm.com ph# pointed to a "FREE RECORDED MESSAGE" this is huge!

    We mail a physical contract to every single caller! This is huge.

    We use TLO to track down owners of return post cards; we send every single one of those prospects a physical contract. This is huge!

    Our goal is to by 2 houses per week. We started flat footed on Jan 1 with our plan. We got skunked a few weeks early in but our biggest week yielded 11 acquisitions... we're catching up to our goal of 2 per week.

    Sales are a non-issue with LiveComm.com (you just need door openers)

    We have 5 acquisition mgrs and 3 sales mgr. Within each group there's a team leader that gets an overuse on all activity. Everyone in my company is paid on results, within 48 hrs of the checks hitting our account. 

    Pay scales are very lucrstive. I have studs on this team. My job is to keep all the carrots in a EXACTLY the right place, help the team close difficult transaction they'd otherwise lose. We are great closers!

    Everyone is making very good money and the processes are as smooth as you can ask for; very defined.

    I am responsible for all the funding dollars; me or my private lenders out up the money.

    I pay a full time bookkeeper, an inside closer for our deals, and the office space (I own the building). These are the only 2 employees besides myself. Everyone gets some type of a bonus per transaction - in or out.

    We will wholesale or whole-tail 40% of or acquisitions. We "Owner Finance" the other 60% and average $400/house positive cash flow with nonlanlording liabilities; we are the BANK! Payments only please; if something breaks, don't call us...it's not out house.

    20 years and 1,300 deals later, I may have finally figured it out how to do volume and have a life.

    It's all about having a great team and making sure EVERY ONE OF THEM are taken care of. 

    --Mitch Stephen--

    [email protected]

  • Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 156 posts · 48 votes
    11y

    @Jonathan C., you said: "I've built a buyers list the traditional way- getting tons of Realtor email addresses from MRIS, calling 'we buy houses' signs, networking at REIAs. I've found though for some reason that through my efforts the prices I can get for houses I'm wholesaling are way less than what I get through my partner/friend's buyers list.Any thoughts on that at all?" ... I had a couple thoughts. One, sometimes REIAs can be full of newbies. Some of the established investors don't need to search for contacts at REIAs, they have their network and system set up. Wholesalers can sometimes be newbies too. Maybe your friend knows people who don't do advertising. Maybe you can find buyers like this through title agents (they know the people who are active in the biz). 

    Also, you said you mail to 40% equity and up. That sounds low, some people mail to 60% and up. That makes me wonder two things: A. Maybe your increased success has to do with mailing to people that others aren't and B. As you increase your volume, are you adding zip codes or going lower on % equity? (ie maybe you started mailing to 50% equity and broadened your range). Also, the fact that you have been mailing for years probably helps you because of name recognition.

    I agree with others that I think you can get more out of your leads by answering them live or paying for an answering service. Why settle for Good results when you can have Great results? Some people are deterred by negative callers, but with the right mindset, you can sometimes turn those into useful leads. One time, I had an angry caller because my flyer stuck to her windshield. And you know what? My partner was able to turn that into an appointment by offering to go there in person to apologize and survey the "damage".

    @Stephen Hundley you might be comparing apples to oranges. FSBO's often end up listing on the MLS because they refuse to sell for 70 cents on the dollar. Those are not leads for rehabbers. The deals you get from direct marketing are often distressed sellers, there's a reason they won't list their house (it's in bad shape, they need to sell quickly, there's a lien, it's tenant occupied, etc). I find that FSBO's often try to sell without an agent first because they are trying to maximize the money they get, they are not very distressed.

  • Realtor · Lafayette, LA · Member since 2011 · 297 posts · 175 votes
    11y

    @Chris L.

     I was simply looking at it from a revenue/hr perspective. The types of sellers are apples to oranges of course.  My point was I can make way more money calling fsbo's that want retail price than spending a ton of money on postcards

  • Professional · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 397 posts · 34 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Stephen Hundley:

    @Christina R.  

    I end up listing them as an agent. It's a pretty easy conversion process. Sometimes I even up the price when I list and sell it in less than a week. Everyone is happy. 

    I listed and sold 50 homes last year at an average price of $210,000. My avg days on market was 27 and add about 33 for financing and my avg time it took to get paid was only 60 days. At a 3% commission that's $6,000/week listing one house per week. 

    To me that's a lot less risky than direct mail. Btw my avg cost per listing was only about $300/house. 

     Hea appears to be interested in directmailing for wholesaling which is quite different from being a realtor -- but 27 days on the market as average days to sell, isnt bad. That is cali type numbers.

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