My Wholesaling Journey-- hopefully this will be a LONG thread.

My Wholesaling Journey-- hopefully this will be a LONG thread.

Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes

Hi all,

I am in the process of starting wholesaling. After a previous stint financing a couple real estate projects in '08, I petered out. Recently, I've since decided to focus again, but this time in wholesaling. My intent with this thread is to keep me focused. I've been inspired by many of the success stories on various threads and hope being engaged on this thread will help push me through the trials and tribulations.

I've read a TON of posts and here's where I am:

Knowledge: Reading the BP blog, BP posts & BP Podcasts have been very valuable. I have also read every blog post by Sharon Vornholt ( [REMOVED]) & Seth Williams ( [REMOVED]). I have also read a couple books and recently very stupidly bought a $700 guru course in my local REI club on subject to. It was stupid because the course overpromised and really under delivered. There was no substance whatsoever.

Interestingly though, it was a good thing I bought this course because it was a good reality check: I can spend a ton of money on books/courses that may or may not be worthwhile, OR I can spend that money on marketing and gain real knowledge when I need it. I learn much quicker when a potential check is on the line. I recently heard that "Knowledge without action is entertainment". So, I'll figure it out as I go.

Marketing: I will be sending a monthly DM YL campaign to absentee out of state SFR owners. I plan to hit this group every month as a sustained effort over time. Initially, I will be sending ~1200 per month broken up weekly. My first drop will be end of next week. My goal is to effectively work as many leads as possible and will be testing my CRM, phone dialogue and negotiation. Once I get up the learning curve, I want to scale my marketing up much more. I plan to focus on other criteria as well.

Because there is a huge learning curve in too many aspects, I am outsourcing my YL campaign (thanks Jerry Puckett). Yes, I could do it cheaper myself, but I want to leave this aspect to someone who is an expert. I do not want to wait months and money to find out I had the wrong starting point (wrong list, wrong message, wrong font, wrong stamp, etc). I really admire the people handwriting many YL's weekly-- there's no way I could do that and learn the other aspects of the business well. My goal is to become successful at wholesaling and I am fully aware of the many difficulties. I want to accelerate my learning curve and suspect too many newbie's give up because there's too much to chew on.

Lead collection: I am using Zoho as my CRM. It is free, has a lot of features and gets some pretty good reviews. I use salesforce.com in my normal dayjob and Zoho seemed comparable in terms of features. Salesforce isn't worth the monthly cost for a one man shop, IMO. Zoho handles direct mail campaigns and lead tracking. What I like is that I can automatically attach correspondence via email and can really focus on my leads.

Website/Squeeze page: In the process of building both. I bought Chris Cho's squeeze page and for $67, it seemed like a no brainer-- no need to reinvent the wheel. I will be building a more detailed and elaborate website for buyers/sellers and investors.

Networking/Mentors: I've met a number of people at my local REI clubs. Some more helpful than others. I have one full time wholesaler that is willing to help me through deals. She and I farm different areas, so it seemed like a good fit. I also have a rehabber that wants to "help" me wholesale deals, in return for 1/2 fee. I may use him as I know that he is a local player and the education on tougher deals may be worth it. I also want to rehab, so I am thinking that I can get him to teach me to rehab for a first look at my deals.

Where does that leave me?
1. Need to learn the process a little better
2. Need to get comfortable on the phone talking to seller
3. Need to learn comps and rehab costs better
4. I don't have a buyers list, but am i wrong in thinking that in this market, a good deal will sell itself? I do have a few contacts from my REI club.

That's about it for now. Sorry for the long post, but hoping that there's many more to come.

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Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y

Its just life making sure you really want it badly. I look back at those days now and smile, I'd be lying if I didn't also remember those days of being nearly in tears over a situation or a deal just taking me out at the knees.

This is a business for the warriors, you have to want that first check more than you want to breathe. It will happen, keep it up!

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Contractor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2012 · 351 posts · 196 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Sharon Hiebing:
    Hey Brian. I'm a former admin, so proofreading is kind of in my blood! I noticed a couple of typos you may want to fix:

    Tax Liens on propert (add the "y" to property)

    We will make you an all cash offer withing 48 hours without commissions or fees. (delete "g" from within)

    Great website. Hope that helps. How come your phone number isn't showing, btw? Good luck!

    Why isn't your phone number showing, btw?

    Just sayin! :c)

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    As I mentioned prior, it isn't launched yet. I'm not happy with the copy and layout yet. Once I finish, I will put the phone #. Been focused on a few more pressing matters first

  • Brandon TurnerPro Member
    Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    This is a great thread, Brian Lane! I'll be following along :)

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    Thanks Brandon Turner

    One of the reasons I haven't been focusing on my squeeze page is that my first mailing went out yesterday and I've been setting up and reviewing my call script and VM (in the off chance I can't get every call). I have about 300 YL's going out weekly (list is 1200). WIll hit the same list every month. Looking to ramp up marketing to 3-4k once I can work the leads effectively.

    Also, I figure that the leads will want to check out my business website to validate that I'm not fly by night. First draft of my website is done.

    Check it out here: [REMOVED]

    All feedback welcome. I am using Godaddy for hosting and I gotta say that their email sucks. I tried switching it to go directly to my gmail, but in the process screwed it up. So, if anyone sends me anything on my [REMOVED] email address, I won't get it. Will spend the afternoon sorting the issues out.

    I am also looking at how to directly import the contact forms into my CRM (Zoho) as new leads automatically. That way, I can automatically get these leads (both buyers and sellers) into my marketing funnel. From a marketing perspective, there isn't one thing that works with everyone all the time. So, I am planning on hitting all of these in a multitude of ways: Direct mail, email, text. I want to have constant contact with them.

    A bit of advice from a newbie (so take it for what it is worth): I've seen tons of threads about new wholesalers starting with buyers lists. I can tell you from my limited experience that there seems to be no shortage of buyers, at least in my market, for even halfway decent deals. Get a good deal and buyers will be 5 deep. I had a conversation with a rehabber recently that is somewhat "starved" for deals. He is willing to pay for the marketing for a wholesaler. Obviously, he isn't doling out cash to everyone, but rather to someone he thinks will get him a steady stream of deals. Since he is higher volume in terms of rehabs (7 this month), he has no time to source deals. My advice? Find deals. Good deals. Spend your time marketing and then figure out what to do with the deals. I am betting/hoping that I won't have an issue moving a good deal.

    That's about it. A little nervous about my first calls this week, but looking forward to cutting my teeth.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Brian, I skimmed the thread but noticed your focus on one list and a plan to hit it 12x a year.

    Depending on the size of your market you might want to mail other markets and split up your efforts to 3-4 times a year hitting the same lead. You have the highest hit frequency I've ever heard from anyone, any reason you chose this plan?

    Best of luck, also I would suggest against anything leading to your website on marketing. You want them to call, not be able to research think etc...

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    One thing on buyers.

    The secret in a competitive market for a wholesaler is not locking it up low, it's selling it high. I know I catch a lot of heat on here for this but the difference between a 3k check and a 20k check is who you sell it to. It is worth researching who is buying and who works on the tight spreads. Those are who you want to sell to, every Rehabber wants a wholesaler in their pocket happy to get a deal as low as possible. I would too, but if you want to run this like a business then focusing on selling the deal right is crucial.

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    Hey Tim G..

    Few comments:
    1. YL frequency: I am probably going to hit them for once/month for the 1st 5 months, then back off a bit. Thinking a little less frequently after that. Mainly because I've read here that you should try and hit them every 4-6 weeks. Jerry Puckett is handling my DM campaign and will defer to him.

    2. Website: My DM campaign will not contain my website. I figure after I've met them, they want to see if I'm legitimate and will look for a website. Will definitely not give it up prior.

    3. My market: My market is large. There's about 1200 out of state absentee owners in a 30 minute drive from me that bought prior to 7 years ago. If I expand that to an hour drive, there's about 6k. If I added in-state absentee owners, the numbers get very large. I want to prove my negotiating and business processes first to effectively manage and work my leads. Once I do that, I plan on expanding quickly in a large way. Thinking of adding a VA down the road, but there's a lot of wood to chop before that happens.

    4. Buyers: When I went to the RE meetup last week, it was clear to me that there are a ton of buyers. It was also clear that they all want pocket wholesalers. There are simply not enough decent (let alone good) deals to go around. I think you are right about the difference between 3k and 20k fees. While I don;t want to always push bad deals, I also don't want to think on behalf of my buyers.

  • Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2013 · 270 posts · 40 votes
    13y

    love the thread and look forward to reading about your progress, but as a newb i want to ask Brian Lane why not have a website for sellers that might not call, but might enter information in the website ? Is the train of thought that if they aren't going to call they are not motivated enough ?

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Ceasar Blackman:
    love the thread and look forward to reading about your progress, but as a newb i want to ask Brian Lane why not have a website for sellers that might not call, but might enter information in the website ? Is the train of thought that if they aren't going to call they are not motivated enough ?

    My thought is that if given a chance between calling or checking out a website, most will check a website. Be willing to bet that most that check the website do nothing other than just check it out. Calls are much warmer leads and conversion rates will be higher.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 9 votes
    13y

    Brian Lane Nice post! I will be following your journey.
    I like that you are using a CRM manager; Zoho should have a .csv file for exporting raw contact files in. Just organize your excel sheet to match the instructions.
    http://www.zoho.com/creator/help/views/import-and-export-data.html
    ^ may be helpful.


    @ [REMOVED] , good site with some notes:
    -needs faster load times. I had an error with firefox, and Internet Explorer loads slowly as well, esp for the contact fill-out forms.
    -Are you using wordpress? There are caching plugins that can increase speed of site.
    -Looking to sell property link doesn't work, which may be good for people to reach you, esp. since buyers may be so abundant atm. Perhaps try using craigslist to advertise.. As well as Bandit signs ( I hear those are popular in NJ). Put them up high and nail 'em in good. YL are very good too, I look forward to reading more about this marketing aspect.

    I'm currently newly entering real estate market as well and have developed this website: [REMOVED] using WordPress. I can refer you to some plugins (there are tons of great plugins for website enhancements via WP) that can increase your SEO, loading times, etc.
    -http://marketing.grader.com/ maybe of particular interest to you as well.

    Tim G. Good advice on website and competitive marketing wholesaling.

    Tony

  • Real Estate Professional · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2010 · 609 posts · 163 votes
    13y

    Tim G. & Brian Lane I am curious why you prefer to not put your web site on your direct mail marketing? I asked this same question on the Marketing Forum a couple of months ago http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/87/topics/83740-direct-mail-testing-with-wo-website

    The consensus was to include the URL of your web site but a few disagreed. I would love to see further discussion on this.

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    Gary Parker, I'm of the opinion that you will fare better getting a real live person to talk to on the phone. If they look at your website and don't call, then you have no ability to get over their objections. Then again, I'm a newbie, so what the heck do i know? :)

    Tony Khuu, thanks for the feedback. I'm having a lot of difficulties with the site. It's a wix site that is hosted on godaddy. Not sure why it is so slow. Also, my email addresses are completely blown up. Not sure what's going on, but I'm certainly no technologist.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    #1 goal of a mailer is to get calls, anything that could cause reason for them not to call is eliminated.

    Visiting a site, thinking it over maybe searching other options while at the computer. All of these outcomes do not benefit them picking up the phone,

    Wix sites are free right? And advertised as such on the footer? If so drop that, as a seller if you are using a free site how can you afford to buy my house, if I'm wrong on this my apologies.

    I don't know if your REI meetings are different than mine but even those don't offer the top dollar buyers, title searches are your friend. I don't get why everyone gets so offended by saying try to sell at top dollar, what does a realtor do? The same.

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    I agree with you Tim.

    Btw, wix only has advertisements if you get the free one. I paid for the "premium" site which removes the ads, amongst other things. You are right though, if you can't pay for a decent website, how can you afford a house?

  • Renter · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 18 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Brian Lane I am definitely going to be checking this thread from time to time. As far as the website, the only suggestion I could make would be concerning the logo. I would personally have a transparent background and make sure it looks sharp. It looks a bit blurred on my pc but I may be splitting hairs.

    An idea for the e-mail is that you could set up a catch-all e-mail account. It would catch any email sent to @allaypropertiesllc.com into one inbox. I'm not sure on how to do this on Godaddy though.

    Good luck on your endeavors!

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2012 · 233 posts · 45 votes
    13y

    Tim G. realism and wisdom. great posts. Brian Lane great thread, tons of info for newbies.. good stuff.. def following to see your first deal. Im waiting for mine still as well. best of luck.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Santa Barbara, CA · Member since 2012 · 233 posts · 45 votes
    13y

    P.S. i figured out how to tag... watch out BP ; )

  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Tim G.:
    #1 goal of a mailer is to get calls, anything that could cause reason for them not to call is eliminated.

    Visiting a site, thinking it over maybe searching other options while at the computer. All of these outcomes do not benefit them picking up the phone,

    Gary Parker,
    This sums my attitude up perfectly, along with what Brian Lane was saying: you can't overcome objections on a website. That's not to say that I think I can motivate a non motivated seller. It's just that I've studied on line behavior quite a bit. Many times, once people are on line anyway they'll go from site to site distributing their info. They search, compare, weigh....There are folks out there who spend tens of thousands of dollars on internet marketing with big beautiful sites that make the average wholesaler's look silly.

    I do however make a concession: once I've cycled through my mailings (and for me, that's a series of 4 letters), before I recycle my list, I send out a P. card that has email address and website. It's my catch all. My conversion rate from the website is much lower than from the phone calls, but it's usually brings at least one or two extra deals per year, so well worth it in my opinion.

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    I'm going to admit I have not read every single post in this thread, but just thinking about the last few.... this is to me, a silly argument. This is 2013 people, not 1993.... You offer BOTH a phone number and website. No email. There are some people that will prefer to go online to contact you, and you want those guys to fill out a form so you can collect the right info. There are other people that will just call you. Give them the OPTION, and you get more leads overall. Eliminate one of these methods and you will lose some % of potential leads.

    If they are people that are likely to go online and look for OTHER sites/investors, they will do that anyway. We tend to think of marketing in a vacuum, like we're the only ones sending them a postcard or something. Hint: you are not the only one, there are others competing for these leads. Give motivated sellers a reason to contact YOU and a way to contact you that they are comfortable doing. That's my 2 cents =)

    P.S. It helps to have a killer domain name that people will remember at a GLANCE. And killer SEO on the term "we buy houses". ;-)

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    Dev Horn, makes sense to me, though I also see the argument to not include it. For now, I won't include it, but may test in the future.

    My first mail drop was Saturday 5/18 (thanks Jerry Puckett!). Yesterday, I was in Boston for a conference for my regular day job. It is very infrequent that I travel for work. However, it just happened to be the day that my mail was delivered. So, I missed a lot of calls and am playing catchup. That said, I've had a number of responses.

    Here's my stats so far (and I'm pretty sure that not everyone has received my initial mailing yet):

    9 calls out of 324 dropped (2.7% response rate).
    5 Voicemails

    I am pretty ecstatic about this. Here's the voicemails that I've connected with so far:

    1. Spoke to the property manager of the property. His friend is the owner. She owes ~315k and house is worth 330k. She hasn't paid mortgage in 2 years. I know nothing about short sales and am trying to get up to speed quickly. The interesting part is that the property manager is a friend of the owner. The owner just wants out and he is doing her a favor. The PM is a CPA and he told me that he sees a lot of motivated sellers via his practice. If I can help his friend out, he wants to show me leads directly.

    2. Seller # 2 is carrying 2 mortgages. One in NJ and one out of state. He is living out of state. He opened a business a few months ago and needs cash as his business is struggling. he offered the house to me at 260k, but I need to figure out what it is worth.

    3. Seller # 3 is a tired landlord. Doesn't want to own house anymore. Not clear to me that he is really motivated, but wants me to come back with a number.

    4. Lady called me to tell me that she was going to sue me for harassment. lol. Said that she will sell her house for 500k when houses are going for 200-250k.

    5. Haven''t connected yet with # 5.

    So, I've learned that I know much less than I thought. What is really holding me back right now is that I cannot come up with good comps on Zillow. Maybe it's me or maybe Zillow isn't great, or maybe a combination of the two. Either way, I am dead right now because I can't even get a decent ballpark number. I know that I need a realtor on my team to feed me comps longer term, but can anyone help me with ballpark comps on these properties in the meantime? I don't want to waste leads.

    Thanks everyone!

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    This question is to everyone, hope to help Brian Lane think this thru:

    What's the best way to establish a relationship with a Realtor that can help you with comps and keeping an eye out for deals on MLS? If you rehab & flip, I can see the pitch to a Realtor: If you help me, you will be the listing agent on all my properties... But what about a wholesaler OR a buy and hold investor - what do they have to offer an Agent that would motivate that agent to assist them (in a deal where the Agent is not the listing agent, not involved in the money)?

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    I think I can get a realtor onboard by offering shortsales. Maybe you guys can help me come up with a better pitch?

    That said, I probably need to know ballpark of what a property may be worth in the meantime. How is the best way to get to a ballpark price?

  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Brian Lane,

    I know we already discussed this, but as Dev Horn asked a great question, I thought I'd cover it here also.

    Find a couple of hungry agents in your town. If you build the relationships correctly, they can actually help to pay your marketing costs. But what I tell them is basically this:

    "Bob, I'm going to be talking to at least 100 people this month that will have an interest in selling their house. Out of that 100, 50 of them will be time wasting tire kickers. 10 of them will be in enough distress that they will want a quick and easy solution like a cash offer. Of those 10, 2 will be in a position to sell to me, the other 8 will need something more complicated, like a short sale or a sub 2. But the other 40 out of that 100 Bob, they will be best served by a retail listing. In fact, the majority of them will go on to list in the near future. Would you be interested in a monthly supply of pre screened, pre qualified warm prospects who are waiting for me to refer them to an Agent? What might that be worth to you?"

    I have my own MLS access in 2 different markets because I'm an unlicensed assistant to an Agent. Perfectly legal. Get to know one of these guys well enough and they can set you up like that. But you could trade prospects for either access or CMAs. You could also trade referrals for a monthly contribution to your marketing budget.

    Originally posted by Dev Horn:
    P.S. It helps to have a killer domain name that people will remember at a GLANCE. And killer SEO on the term "we buy houses". ;-)

    Dev, you know your brand way better than I do, but I do know that your internet marketing gets you tons of leads in many markets. As far as the SEO goes, do you find that a lot of folks use "we buy houses" as a search term?

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Jerry Puckett - I think your advise re: attracting an agent is PURE GOLD. Do you guys hear what he is saying? If you're "just an investor", you may be throwing away leads that are very valuable to Realtors - they may even PAY YOU $100, $200+ for decent leads and that - as Jerry says - could actually pay for a big portion of your marketing!! Pure genius.

    And yes, we find that "we buy houses" as a keyword, drives lots of natural and paid searches - motivated sellers have seen the term a lot and now search on it. Check out what Danny Johnson said at 35 minutes into the last podcast:

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2013/05/16/flipping-marketing-wholesaling-danny-johnson/

  • Real Estate Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2012 · 79 posts · 19 votes
    13y

    Made my first offer today on seller #3 (tired landlord).

    He had a 2br 1.5bth 1450sq ft house in CNJ. Looks like all the 3/2's are selling for +/- 50k. He is currently renting it out. His property is across the street from a cemetary though.

    So I figured:
    The difference between 3/2 and a 2/1.5 is about 10k. Sight unseen, I'm figuring 10k in rehab costs considering it already has a tenant. So, I offered him 20k.

    His response? "Wasn't looking to sell it, but would at 60k."

    What did I learn? I need to understand ARV much better. Once I made the offer, I was quickly able to determine whether or not he was really a seller. Also, I need to make lots of offers.

    On to the next one.......

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