Real Estate Investor · Hockessin, DE · Member since 2013 · 35 posts · 11 votes
I'm a newbie Wholesaler who is finally on the verge of launching his first Yellow Letters (1,000+) campaign in addition to increasing Bandit signs from 20 to 200 in the next two weeks. While I'm sure these numbers are very small to most of you I expect the incoming call volume to be a bit larger than I can handle.
PATLive has been hired to answer incoming calls and follow a script to help me filter out the highly motivated sellers who I will be calling back. My question is, who can help me callback all the other sellers to probe them and ensure motivation does in fact not exist? I've search the web but can't find a service who will call back real estate leads to test for motivation and possibly do a soft pass with a low-ball number they calculate.
I do occasionally need help with calls. When I do, I usually find an eager beaver right here on BP who wants to learn the business. You see them everywhere all the time.
I pay them .25 cents per minute to use my script, update my lead tracker, and keep my Google Voice account updated with contact info. (GV also tracks to the precise minute how much time they've spent on the phone)
Over time, I sink some negotiating skill into this person, and they progress from just using the script to making soft passes. They also learn how to comp and other pieces of Due diligence.
When I close on a deal they've been a part of (in any capacity) they get a bonus. (usually between $200 and $600) That's the piece that keeps them motivated. The quarter a minute works out to $15 hour and costs me about $100/month. Money very well spent.
Believe me, there are tons of people who want to get paid to learn.
Fair enough. I'm the type who always does everything on their own BUT I recently read 'The Four Hour Workweek' which caused me to re-evaluate my entire approach to business. Maybe it's too much outsourcing.
I've never wholesaled, so take this with a grain of salt.... but I would suggest you wait to hire that stuff out until you see a need for it. You'll learn so much more by doing the most you can yourself, plus you'll save money. One problem many startup businesses have is that they commit too much capital to things they think they need too soon. Stay small and nimble and in control of your business until you just can't handle the workload anymore.
@Paul Timmins I am planning to mail 250 yellow letters per week and follow-up with a series of approx 7 letters. I haven't considered conducting A/B testing, sounds like a good idea.
@Sean H. Just signed up with PATLive last night and won't start using the service for another week or so due to the lead time they require. Appreciate the referral.
1. Patlive does a good job of answering the phone when you can't.
2. They sound very professional and do an excellent job of asking your questions.
3. They are able to politely deflect questions they can't answer and continue gathering information.
Cons:
1. Their knowledge of using Google Voice is surprisingly limited.
2. If you don't specifically layout each step in the process along with exceptions they will make the same stupid mistake over and over again. For example, whenever someone called they were instructed to input the call information into a form on my website, which is helpful. What is not helpful is when they enter 'Hangup' into my website form which is useless to me. Basically they used much more time than they should have (you pay by the minute).
Result: I dropped PatLive and hired a full-time VA with good English to answer the phones in addition to other work for $700/month. This definitely works better but I still haven't completed a Wholesale transaction, so what do I know.
@Brandon C. , how is it going with your VA? I followed the same trajectory you did - Pat Live for a year (wasted too many minutes), then a VA for a couple of years (calls fell through the cracks). Now I sent 4-6k mailers a month, get a .5 to 1.25% response rate, and can still answer my own phone most of the time.
I can only speak for myself, but I strongly believe it's in your best interest to answer as many of the sellers' calls as you possibly can, for several reasons.
The first is that you will never have a better chance to hone your negotiating skills and develop your phone "personality" than you will when answering seller calls. The education you will receive is priceless, and the more you do it the faster you'll get good at it.
The second is that it's tough to overestimate the importance of that first customer contact. Prospective sellers are probably getting mailers from lots of investors. What will mean more to the caller - a fully engaged business owner listening and asking specific targeted questions? Or someone using a script, taking down information and promising a call back from the decision maker? Put another way - if you were the caller, who would you rather talk to?
Now if you are working a full-time day job and can't answer that's one thing, and maybe you have an excellent VA who treats those calls like it's her own wholesale fee on the line. Either way please make sure you're giving your prospects the very best customer experience the first time they call and answer the phone as much as you can, for your benefit as well as theirs.
I am considering using the Alex Joungblood method, send out volumes of postcards and if they choose to leave a message after your minute long recording, then you KNOW they're motivated.
I would say 25% of my yellow letter responses were mad or confused, and 50% were just curious. It seems like a waste to pay someone to answer the phone live when only 25% are potentially motivated leads.
On my first YL campaign I did what Sean Terry said and made it sound like a personal voicemail, but I have a feeling this caused a lot of people to think they were calling the wrong number so I got a ton of hangups.
I have my mail-merge postcard going out this coming Monday and I am going to try the voicemail recording method to weed out the curious callers.
I the have the dreaded "Full Time Day Job" so I don't have the option to answer the majority of the calls, so I am kicking around the best alternative method.
I will let you know how it goes and please keep us up to date on what seems to work the best for you!
if I was in your situation (I have been), I would save the extra money you are putting into VA and PATLive and spend it on marketing. Outsourcing is good once your biz is too big to handle yourself. It seems like you have a great plan on how to outsource once you get to that point.
Currently, if you send out 1000 letters one week, you get barraged with calls and miss a bunch & lose deals. Then you will be twiddling your thumbs waiting until enough time passes so you can send another mailing to that list. Sound familiar?
Why not send 250 a week for 4 weeks.? That way you are constantly mailing and have a manageable stream of callers coming in each week.
I'd let the calls all go to a simple personal google voice voicemail & let them leave a message. Most people who are calling to sell will leave a message. The ones who don't you can call back or text later. This will allow you to return calls on your breaks or after work.
This will then allow you to save money and get deals done. Once you do a couple deals you can reevaluate your systems.
You will most likely have the best conversion rate fielding all the calls yourself as they come in. But you will waste a lot of time talking to non prospects and if you aren't doing it full time it is just hard to do it.
Probably get the next most leads if you have a well trained call service that answers the phone and pre screens for you. But it isn't cheap to do it.
You will probably lose some leads by having a voicemail but the ones that leave a message will be more motivated and you can call them back when you have time to talk and if you get enough info you can have some information about the property at hand.
In my opinion for costs, convienence and personal strengths I lean towards trying to get a good voicemail setup until having a huge machine going where you might have dozens of calls a day coming in, then outsource it.
if I was in your situation (I have been), I would save the extra money you are putting into VA and PATLive and spend it on marketing.
This will then allow you to save money and get deals done. Once you do a couple deals you can reevaluate your systems.
Does that make sense?
Perfect sense!@Brandon C. , listen to Lamar. He has built up a thriving business in a very short amount of time by making and following a very simple plan.
And do not underestimate the power of texting to manage calls. For those who call and leave no message, this is a great alternative....send them a text "Did you call about selling your house?" I've darn near closed deals through a text conversation, and for a lot of people it's much easier, even from a day job.
Great advice @Jerry Puckett - I've been struggling with the right message to send via text for missed calls when there's no voice mail. Going to give your idea a shot!
If the call is from a land line, I assume the best action is simply to call back? It's either that or nothing....and nothing doesn't seem like a great option.
I just started using the voicemail technique because I became too overwhelmed trying to answer the calls myself on my first two mailings.
I just sent out my 3rd mailing which should hit tomorrow, do you have suggestions on what is the best voicemail recording to use for YL and mail merge postcards?
Spreading out the mailings throughout the week is a great idea that I will definitely implement.
Getting rid of the VA and reinvesting in the business is sound advice. That being said, I'm going to keep the guy around because I have a dream. The dream that a I don't need to be involved in the business to make it successful.
Again, I appreciate your advice. The concept of having someone with minimal real estate knowledge with minimal direction and oversight is too appealing/interesting an experiment for me to give up (in all honestly).
I would start small and then outsource once you get to that point. I have outsourced callers and wasn't impressed. They are not as motivated as you to get the deal done.
Spreading out the mailings throughout the week is a great idea that I will definitely implement.
Getting rid of the VA and reinvesting in the business is sound advice. That being said, I'm going to keep the guy around because I have a dream. The dream that a I don't need to be involved in the business to make it successful.
Again, I appreciate your advice. The concept of having someone with minimal real estate knowledge with minimal direction and oversight is too appealing/interesting an experiment for me to give up (in all honestly).
I'm a dreamer (stupid or ignorant), I suppose.
What other work is the VA doing? You could just cut back the hours by taking the calls off the plate until you start getting that volume.
You said you are paying $700/month for the VA which seems like a lot if you have not done a deal yet.
I totally commend you for wanting to outsource and get out of a lot of day to day tasks in the business. However that isn't always the best move at first since there is some value in the experience and there may be limited funds avalible to go big when you are really small.
I do occasionally need help with calls. When I do, I usually find an eager beaver right here on BP who wants to learn the business. You see them everywhere all the time.
I pay them .25 cents per minute to use my script, update my lead tracker, and keep my Google Voice account updated with contact info. (GV also tracks to the precise minute how much time they've spent on the phone)
Over time, I sink some negotiating skill into this person, and they progress from just using the script to making soft passes. They also learn how to comp and other pieces of Due diligence.
When I close on a deal they've been a part of (in any capacity) they get a bonus. (usually between $200 and $600) That's the piece that keeps them motivated. The quarter a minute works out to $15 hour and costs me about $100/month. Money very well spent.
Believe me, there are tons of people who want to get paid to learn.
I do occasionally need help with calls. When I do, I usually find an eager beaver right here on BP who wants to learn the business. You see them everywhere all the time.
I pay them .25 cents per minute to use my script, update my lead tracker, and keep my Google Voice account updated with contact info. (GV also tracks to the precise minute how much time they've spent on the phone)
Over time, I sink some negotiating skill into this person, and they progress from just using the script to making soft passes. They also learn how to comp and other pieces of Due diligence.
When I close on a deal they've been a part of (in any capacity) they get a bonus. (usually between $200 and $600) That's the piece that keeps them motivated. The quarter a minute works out to $15 hour and costs me about $100/month. Money very well spent.
Believe me, there are tons of people who want to get paid to learn.
Great question! As a general principle that has worked for me, I recommend doing every part of the process yourself at least once. Write procedures/record training videos for every single step. Then, you'll have the experience and tools to train someone to DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.
You'll be able to hire a VA to return calls once you've done this. Make sense?
In response to your great question "what other things does your VA do during the day".
This might be a bit strange but my VA conducts market research for ideas I come up with but don't have time to verify. To clarify, I want to build a piece of software (aka hire a low cost developer to do the work) that solves a real problem for people in the real estate industry. The VA data mines and emails about 100 people in the industry per day and asks them what the biggest problem is in their business. Then follows up and asks them probing questions. Basically, when my VA isn't on the phone he is validating all the crazy ideas swirling around in my head.
You're idea for outsourcing calls is absolutely genius! Absolute genius. The only question I have is, how do you know they aren't going behind your back and stealing deals? I ask because a VA wouldn't know how to steal a deal but a hungry investor might be another story. Can't wait to hear this.
@Travis Daggett that's exactly what I do. Do it once, document it (to some degree) then pass it off to the VA. Glad to hear it works for you. Congrats!
Sorry about that @Brandon C. , I've really gotten behind on the site lately. 3 things keep me pretty safe:
1) No one says you have to use a local. Virtual wholesaling is not the easiest thing in the world to do, especially for a Newbie.
2) If they are local, stealing a deal from me would be extremely short sighted as reputation is everything in this town and that kind of behavior tends to aggravate people.
3) If you're really worried about it, have them fill out a no compete.
@Jerry Puckett What about ex-pats? I posted a job on an online job board for Filipino's and an ex-pat from San Deigo now living in the Philippines applied for the job. I pay the man $1k/month and he appears to know more about wholesaling than I do (kind of a joke but not really). The man has some serious sales skills and is great on the phone.
Anyway, hiring an American now living in another country for non-US wages seems like the best of both worlds. My new marketing campaign is just starting to kick-off so I'll let everyone know how it turns out in the new year.