Has anyone used Hipster Investments?
Westbury, NY · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 13 votes
Has anyone used Hipster Investments?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8yOh, well hi everyone! I guess I should set one of my keyword alerts to be “Hipster Investments”… I didn’t even know there was a post about my own company until the last post just tagged me. (Warning: long response coming….I’m a little late to my own party so it might take a minute to catch-up)
I’m absolutely happy to answer any questions, disclose anything anyone wants to know, and respond to anything.
To give you a short on my exact place in this turnkey world… I started out as a turnkey buyer myself, long before I even knew all the companies out there. (sorry @SAJ to burst your claim I’m not a turnkey buyer). When I was a buyer of them for myself, I was so excited about them that I was telling everyone under the sun about them and since people hadn’t heard about turnkeys, they all wanted to know more and a lot of people I told ended up buying for themselves. As this continued, I was finally told that if I got my real estate license I could accept referral fees on people’s purchases. I did this solely as a side gig while I was working my corporate engineering job. After I had started my own casual real estate blog not too long after, BP found me and asked if I would start writing for them. Suddenly traffic levels got huge and everyone asked who I had bought through, so I told them. End of story.
I do make referral fees for my referrals, but let me make something very clear. I have had just about every TK provider and TK company offer me referral fees to promote their properties, and just about all of them offered me substantially higher referral fees than I currently make. However, I vowed in the beginning that I would only refer people to opportunities that I personally invested in myself. To this day I still don’t refer anyone to anything I haven’t been directly involved in myself.
Even if you message me directly, you will never hear me pitch or sell anyone on anything (I’m actually the worst salesperson on the planet, guaranteed). I don’t pitch or sell anything in my forum responses, in my articles, or anywhere. I can’t even tell you how many people I’ve told that they shouldn’t buy a turnkey (two people just earlier today, in fact). I don’t even offer property or resource information unless someone asks me for it. So if anyone feels in any way that I’m only a marketing salesperson, I’m very sorry you feel that way.
@Account Closed
46 Replies
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
She is a marketing agent just like hiring a broker to work for you.. in many cases having your own advocate in these deals is useful.. I am sure she would not have for instance referred you or recommended Morris/Oceanpointe for example.
- Real Estate Consultant · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
I have never invested with Ali, but I have met and talked to her on many occasion as she attends my meetup. I certainly would feel comfortable listening to her and taking her advise, if I was looking at the niche she is advising on.
She is very knowledgeable and shares her experiences freely at my group.
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8yElizabeth Garcia I emailed back and forth with them a bit last year. They wanted me to invest with maverick investor group. You can look them up here too. Hipster and maverick are marketers. So there’s a markup on the properties. It can still work though
- Westbury, NY · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 13 votes8y
@Jay Hinrichs thank you so much for your input. Also, I’ve read enough forums to know to stay away from Morris/Oceanpointe, lol
@Jeff Greenberg thanks for your feed back. Ali does seem very knowledgeable.
@Caleb Heimsoth when you say marketers, is that similar to what Norada and Real wealth network do?
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Elizabeth Garcia:
@Jay Hinrichs thank you so much for your input. Also, I’ve read enough forums to know to stay away from Morris/Oceanpointe, lol
@Jeff Greenberg thanks for your feed back. Ali does seem very knowledgeable.
@Caleb Heimsoth when you say marketers, is that similar to what Norada and Real wealth network do?
Yes Elizabeth just like Norada although I think Marco might actually own some of the homes I could be wrong maybe he will chime in...
I do believe Hipster is a affiliate of Maverick maybe Ali will come on and let everyone know how that relationship is .
Just for some reference the larger marketers or Real estate brokers for turn key rentals that I know are.
Jason Hartman
Norada Marco Santerelli
real wealth Kathy Fehtke
Maverick Mr. Bowles ( who travels the world )
And there are a dozen or more less known but equally active probably not as much volume but those are the ones I know.
Now Roofstock is moving into the space and I have had two or three of my fundings paid off by their buyers.. and just talked to another of my vendors tonight and he has another one pending with roofstock..
all of these companies act in the same capacity as real estate brokers.. not sure on how they all handle licensure you can ask them.. But that's what they do ..
And the reason for this is most turn key companies are busy enough with the buy rehab and property management and don't have either the time or skill set to market. Its a niche If you follow Kathy or Jason Hartman you will see they are all over the world literally and run some pretty big operations.. Kathy has a radio show in LA Jason has a pretty HUGE following on his pod casts etc etc.
Then you have others who have created their own organic growth and don't really rely on marketers as much.
when I first started funding turn key players in 2002 .. Nick Virtucci and Mike Harris had the radio round table in LA and then there were about 4 or 5 others.. the bay area has there's.. Pinnacle properties is a marketer..
But now a days some of the bigger players do not really use marketers anymore.. as I was kind of saying they have grown to the point were they get their deals organically or through their own marketing efforts.. I fund a few of those as well..
hope that long winded reply kind of gave you some understanding of our business. all of the marketers really can't come out with it on BP because of MOd rules..
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8y
@Elizabeth Garcia I’d refer to jay on your question as I’m not familiar to those other companies.
I was on hipsters website earlier tonight, just looking it over and I came across a disclaimer that says to basically assume the receive compensation or a “referral” fee for each introduction they make. I don’t know the specifics of that, but that’s how it works.
This is different from a turnkey company that makes their money in the actual sale of properties instead of referral commissions.
If you want to go this route I’d just find a reputable turnkey company. Cuts out all the middle men.
The more I dig into the turnkey model, the more I find myself wondering if I could do a better job myself. If you find a good provider I think it can provide you about 8-10 percent return over the long haul.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Caleb Heimsoth theoretically that's what the marketers have done they have scoured the US for the best of the best in the turn key space then refer clients to them.
the one that fell on his sword was Morris.. referring clients to oceanpointe :( but then when you follow what he is doing he I think Is reversing that saying I am a great marketer and I need this product I need to pitch 40k props that rent for 700 because people will believe me because of my stature. And the public does not realize that the entire freedom pitch the making claims that D class and low C class tenants are stable.. that many of the tenants in these homes are professionals like doctors and nurses.. that's all just a bunch of well you know what.. its simply not the case and he has to know that.
- Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes8yJay Hinrichs amen
- 8yMarco SantarelliPro MemberSpecialist · Orange County, CA · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 623 votes
@Elizabeth Garcia -- Welcome to BiggerPockets!
A few comments to add to @Jay Hinrichs and @Caleb Heimsoth good posts above:
HIPSTER: Ali Boone is a marketing affiliate for Maverick Investor Group. She gets a referral fee for every person referred by her that results in a sale. Unless things have dramatically changed, don't expect unbiased advise or a counselor by your side. Much like an affiliate internet marketer, you will be handed off to Maverick's sales person.
NORADA: Is both a turnkey provider and promoter. A major difference, and differentiator, is our team of Investment Counselors will spend as much time as you need to help you plot a course from where you are today to where you want to go with your real estate investing goals. With 15 markets to choose from, we are "market agnostic" and can offer unbiased advise. Also note that we do not 'markup' property prices. They are at or below the FMV or appraised value.
ROOFSTOCK: Very new player on the scene. I've met with their team and CEO. At this time they don't offer consulting or counseling services. They are simply a marketplace.
MORRIS: Don't get me started. We get a lot of clients "from" them. Meaning they come to us after speaking with them. :)
True turkey properties with a reputable turnkey provider is a great solution for those who want to build a portfolio of properties without the "heavy lifting" involved in the active find-buy-fix-refi model. It's best for those with limited TIME, experience, resources, and/or knowledge.
Hope that helps.
Continued success!
- Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 730 posts · 1k+ votes8y
the most shocking thing about Hipster is that their founder, @Ali Boone, will come into BP forums and offer turnkey advice, posing as a real investor investor who buys turnkeys. (Most of her posts start, “I’ve always been a buyer of turnkeys”), but she almost always fails to state that she is actually selling/marketing them. Her website motto is “we offer turnkey real estate investments...”
When I called her out on that, she said she doesn’t “sell” them. She simply “refers” clients to companies she likes. Really?
Seriously unethical, borderline illegal, and extremely questionable business practices. Offering advice to newbies is great, but if you are planning to somehow profit from this advice, you need to disclose, disclose, disclose.
I highly recommmend dealing directly with a turnkey provider. Not some fly by night marketing company.
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
Oh, well hi everyone! I guess I should set one of my keyword alerts to be “Hipster Investments”… I didn’t even know there was a post about my own company until the last post just tagged me. (Warning: long response coming….I’m a little late to my own party so it might take a minute to catch-up)
I’m absolutely happy to answer any questions, disclose anything anyone wants to know, and respond to anything.
To give you a short on my exact place in this turnkey world… I started out as a turnkey buyer myself, long before I even knew all the companies out there. (sorry @SAJ to burst your claim I’m not a turnkey buyer). When I was a buyer of them for myself, I was so excited about them that I was telling everyone under the sun about them and since people hadn’t heard about turnkeys, they all wanted to know more and a lot of people I told ended up buying for themselves. As this continued, I was finally told that if I got my real estate license I could accept referral fees on people’s purchases. I did this solely as a side gig while I was working my corporate engineering job. After I had started my own casual real estate blog not too long after, BP found me and asked if I would start writing for them. Suddenly traffic levels got huge and everyone asked who I had bought through, so I told them. End of story.
I do make referral fees for my referrals, but let me make something very clear. I have had just about every TK provider and TK company offer me referral fees to promote their properties, and just about all of them offered me substantially higher referral fees than I currently make. However, I vowed in the beginning that I would only refer people to opportunities that I personally invested in myself. To this day I still don’t refer anyone to anything I haven’t been directly involved in myself.
Even if you message me directly, you will never hear me pitch or sell anyone on anything (I’m actually the worst salesperson on the planet, guaranteed). I don’t pitch or sell anything in my forum responses, in my articles, or anywhere. I can’t even tell you how many people I’ve told that they shouldn’t buy a turnkey (two people just earlier today, in fact). I don’t even offer property or resource information unless someone asks me for it. So if anyone feels in any way that I’m only a marketing salesperson, I’m very sorry you feel that way.
@Account Closed
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
@Jay Hinrichs and @Jeff Greenberg Thanks for the nice words! I value you both of you as well and appreciate you chiming in on my behalf.
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
@Caleb Heimsoth There is actually no markup on any properties we offer. If you were to go directly to the turnkey provider themselves, the price would be exactly the same. And as far as middlemen versus going direct, I completely disagree that going direct is better. You can say that I only say that because I’m one of the middlemen, but:
- Direct providers can’t give you unbiased market information
- You don’t save any money by going directly through them
- Have you dealt with the customer service levels of most of the direct TK providers lately? It’s painful.
- There’s more leverage in numbers….sorry, but you as an individual investor come in with no leverage against operations this big but coming in with all the middlemen attached absolutely forces that leverage.
- Direct providers can’t help you strategy your portfolio.
- All of us middlemen support you, handle your issues, give you unbiased market advice, take the brunt of brutal customer service for you, offer you leverage, and stick around to be your emotional support animal if things go trippy. All for free.
Sooo... people can do whatever they feel most comfortable with, but I don't see any reason whatsoever to not have an extra free resource by your side.
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
@Marco Santarelli Sorry, but your analysis of me/Hipster vs. you/Norada is complete crap. You are a turnkey marketer as much as anyone else. You get a referral fee from every turnkey provider you refer someone to, and in fact, you get a notably higher referral fee than I do when I send someone. You certainly can’t claim you are the only “market agnostic” person out there and 15 markets is ridiculous! I’d love to know how much time you’ve spent on the ground diving deep into each one of those TK operations vetting them from head-to-toe. I know several TKs you’ve promoted in the past that Maverick checked out and vowed not to promote because there were too many red flags. And counseling? My entire job is to be people’s emotional support animal. It’s what I do. Maverick does it in depth too. So next time to you want to offer the community “unbiased” advice, like you say I can’t give, you might want to double-check what you’re writing about each of our companies.
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes8y
@Account ClosedActually as soon as it was pointed out to me that my website said I sell TKs, I changed the wording. -Feel free to check it out- I absolutely do own my own turnkeys and every response or article I write in relationship to TKs is based on buying and owning them myself. If anyone ever asks me for referrals for TKs, I do disclose. But for general conversation and answering questions about REI concepts or whatever else someone posts, there's no reason to disclose anything because I'm not sending anyone to anyone and I'm not responding in any kind of way to sell anyone on anything (feel free to point out any responses I've given where I have). Not sure what I ever did to get such a big bee in your bonnet but I'm sorry you've been led to believe I'm unethical and teetering illegal. If you can specify exactly what I've ever done that's unethical or illegal, feel free to tell me and I will certainly look into it.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Ali Boone as long as everyone Is properly licensed to receive compensation for these activities that's the main thing. That's were I see it all over the place with the wholesalers on the huds hiding behind marketing fee's and consulting fee's etc.. we just need an even playing field.
As we can see there is confusion in the industry ( or at least on BP with the newbie buyers) as we see with post.
Just like we see with the post Hey I am going to buy a Morris invest house.. well he is not Memphis Invest that clearly owns the homes. But people don't know any better and I guess just assume.
@Marco Santarelli the Morris/Oceanpointe is some of the worse I have seen since I started funding this stuff in 2002.. 3000 plus transactions under my belt.. and this one just is over the top.. yet you still see people get on a long thread of a few hundred post with 10 or 15 post of actual buyers that bought homes that either were never touched or if rehabbed so poorly as to not be funny etc etc.. and the post at the end Is Hey I have my call with them what do you think LOL.. REALLY Any way carry on..
Just as an aside I have been to Roofstocks offices in Oakland as well.. they started off selling more institutional portfolios but are finding they need to get into the space you guys are in.. 3 of my vendors are using them.. little rocky on the vendor side going through their process's.. But from a sellers point of view and what they do up front for the buyer.. I see them as a good fit for the more experienced buyer that does not need hand holding.. I was impressed frankly.. and I don't impress easily.
- Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Elizabeth Garcia:
Hi everyone,
I’m curious to know if anyone has had first hand experience using Hipster Investments to buy TK properties? I see the founder, Ali Boone, writes a lot of articles for BP, but I haven’t been able to find any information on her company in the forums. I would appreciate any feedback.
I have never heard of them. Do they own their properties or just show you ones listed on the MLS? I am just curious about what kind of operation they have.
- Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2012 · 314 posts · 146 votes8y
Hi @Jay Hinrichs - We haven't done any business with them.
- 8yChris ClothierBusiness MemberRental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Elizabeth Garcia, Welcome to BP! I was alerted to your post when my company was mentioned and I'm actually really glad that I came here and read it.
It is unfortunate that a couple of people came on here and chose to speak poorly of @Ali Boone. In my opinion, those were in poor taste, but I want to commend Ali for the way she has handled herself. That speaks volumes about who you are asking about. I wanted to give Ali a very strong character reference.
I met Ali 5 years ago when I asked to meet her while I was in Los Angeles. I was impressed with her articles on the Bigger Pockets blog. Ali and I were the only two writing about passive, Turnkey real estate investing at the time. I visited her site, much like you did, and was impressed with her story. It was real. It wasn't made up junk meant to sound official and important. Her blog and her writing were her real story of buying property passively, Turnkey and often sight unseen.
Unlike any other companies that @Jay Hinrichs listed, Ali is the only one that I know of who shares her real investing story and only discusses a company with an investor if she has personally done business with them. Through Hipster Investments, from what I have heard both from her and from others who have dealt with her, Ali does spend time getting to know investors and patiently and kindly answering their questions.
The biggest difference, and please weigh this heavily Elizabeth, Ali only gives advice based on her investments. I have never heard one person speak poorly of their interactions with Ali.
I have never done business with Hipster Investments and no one has ever been passed onto me for an Affilaite commission or anything of that sort. Why? Because Ali and I have never done business! We didn't have the need for a referral partner and she wasn't looking to purchase in Memphis so Hipster has never sent one client to my company. That is called integrity.
Too many people use the word Turnkey to promote their business when all they really are is middle men. Not a week goes by when a company and sometimes even individuals right here on BP asks to send their clients to my company for a fee. They simple want to get in the middle of a transaction and get paid. Those fees range from $5,000 to as high as 7%, whichever number is higher. On a $150,000 house, that is over $10,000. Not a single one of those promoters has ever asked to purchase a property first so they can advise from experience and give first-hand knowledge. The only qualification has been ability to pay!
I'm not a fan of the promoter business. In general, I don't think they look for the best of the best as Jay wrote above. My experience in the past 10 years has been that promoters look for whomever is willing and able to pay. Again, that is my experience in dealing with the promoter world.
I also laugh at the phrase market agnostic, which has been thrown around here a couple of times in the post. I'm not really sure what is meant by that? Unless a promoter is willing to spend time with you researching and discussing the market you want to invest in regardless of whether they have a provider that is going to pay them in that market, then they are not market agnostic. That would imply that they don't care where you invest as long as you do.
In reality, they may not care which market you invest in as long as it is a market with a provider where they will get paid. That is less 'market agnostic' and more 'I don't care which of the markets I have a provider in you choose'. Nothing wrong with that at all, it just doesn't have quite the same ring to it!
I'm not privy to Ali's relationship with Maverick nor do I need to be. You asked a simple question about Ali Boone and Hipster Investments and I just hate to see someone whom I admire and have respect for get drug through the mud like she has done something wrong. She shares from her experiences and makes referrals based on those experiences. I often don't agree with things that Ali posts here on BP. Her and I have differing opinions on many real estate investing topics, but I respect her for honestly sharing.
In my opinion, you cannot ask for much more than to deal with a person who is honest, operates with integrity and has a track record of actually investing as a turnkey investor.
Best of luck to you Elizabeth!
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Chris Clothier my "best of the best" was a euphemism.. there is no doubt that the turnkey brokerage or marketing community only touts those that they have relationships with and who pay them..
And like MI many of the bigger turnkey guys I work with have grown to the point they don't need outside marketing agents.. but many did to start until they got some traction and built referral business.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 141 posts · 123 votes8y
Great discussion! @Elizabeth Garcia I am also a new REI and have spent a solid 6 months listening to podcasts - (@Marco Santarelli podcast is super informative), reading BP books, etc to get myself educated.
I decided to take action late November 2017 when I started calling TK providers and marketers alike (I've either talked to every TK here or their representative - Morris, MI, Norada, HI, even roofstock!). Hate to give you a cop out answer but I definitely think there are pros and cons in using either service and you will have to decide for yourself based on the relationship you're building with the provider, their inventory (numbers/markets have to make sense!), and their track record (tons of resources here on BP).
Ultimately I was able to narrow down 20+ providers (I made a ton of calls lol) to less than 5 who I chose to work with and have bought from 2 of them so far. PM if you have any specific questions.
- Investor · Great Neck, NY · Member since 2016 · 679 posts · 467 votes8y
Another option if your considering investing out of state is to attend local REI meetings that discuss that (we have several here in NY). Feel free to PM me if you need any assistance as I invest of out of state and can answer questions you may have.
- Westbury, NY · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 13 votes8y
@Caleb Heimsoth While I agree that I could get better returns if I "cut out the middle man" when buying a property, but at this point in my life, I don't feel comfortable going at it on my own. I'm going into this knowing full well that I'm going to be paying some type of fee (however indirectly), because no one works for free. Hopefully in the future I'll feel comfortable and confident in purchasing a property and using the BRRRR strategy, but again at this point in my life buying a TK property is best for me.
@Marco Santarelli Thank you for the welcome! I've only been aware of BP for a couple of months and I've been trying to absorb as much information as possible. Your podcasts are so informative and I listen to them to/from work. Thank you for your concise descriptions of each company, I've heard enough of Morris to stay away and I'm not familiar with Roofstock, but I feel I need counseling for my first foray into real estate investing, so I mostly likely will not be looking further into this company until I'm more experienced.
@Account Closed. I never once got the impression that she was trying to sell or push her company through (even when reading the comments section). By her phrasing, I always understood that the properties she invested were her own. I never got the impression that she was trying to drum up business, which is why I was surprised to learn that she was the founder of TK marketer/promoter company, and what prompted me to ask if any one has worked with her.
- Westbury, NY · Member since 2017 · 30 posts · 13 votes8y
Thanks @Bo Kim I know that at this point buying TK is the choice for me and I will definitely be getting in touch with you once I have specific questions.
@Steve Kontos I definitely want to get involved in attending local REI meetings. I've only been able to find 1 out of state REI group through Meet Up. Are there any other groups you can recommend? In the BP events section I saw there is a Suffolk county rei meet up, and although it doesn't appear to be OOS specific, I've signed up to attend because I've got to start somewhere.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 141 posts · 123 votes8y
Originally posted by @Elizabeth Garcia:
Thanks @Bo Kim I know that at this point buying TK is the choice for me and I will definitely be getting in touch with you once I have specific questions.
@Steve Kontos I definitely want to get involved in attending local REI meetings. I've only been able to find 1 out of state REI group through Meet Up. Are there any other groups you can recommend? In the BP events section I saw there is a Suffolk county rei meet up, and although it doesn't appear to be OOS specific, I've signed up to attend because I've got to start somewhere.
You're very welcome, one thing to add - an advice I got from a seasoned investor was that make sure you take all the info, digest it, and make your own decision. In my short 6 months on BP i've been PM'd and contacted by other BP members who did not disclose they are somehow connected to the turnkey provider (either get a referral fee or they are financing the TK, etc.) so just be careful of those "related parties". Not saying they are all bad, but it just opened my eyes in terms of ppl may have a hidden agenda and not have your best interest in mind when making recommendations.
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