The BRRRR killer nobody budgets for: the refi appraisal

The BRRRR killer nobody budgets for: the refi appraisal

James JonesPro Member
Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes

Memphis operator here - buying, rehabbing, and refinancing rentals since 2003, few hundred doors, my own crews. I've watched a lot of BRRRRs die over the years, and here's the uncomfortable pattern: almost none of them die at the purchase or the rehab. They die at the refi appraisal, which is the one step most investors treat as a formality.

The math is brutal because it's leveraged. On a typical deal - buy $80K, rehab $40K, ARV $160K - a 75% LTV refi returns $120K and you've recycled every dollar back out. That's the "free house." But if the appraisal comes in at $145K instead of $160K, you don't lose 9%. You lose $11,250 of capital recovery, which for most people is the difference between doing the next deal this year and not. A 9% appraisal miss can be a 100% strategy miss.

What I've learned actually moves the number, all of it legitimate:

The appraiser can't read your mind. They see a house that sold for $80K a few months ago and now claims to be worth $160K. Without context, their anchor is the purchase price. So we hand every refi appraiser a packet: itemized scope of work with real costs, before-and-after photos of the same angles, and the three comps WE think are right with a sentence on why each one is comparable. You cannot pressure an appraiser - that's a line you never cross - but you can inform one, and an informed appraiser with good comps in hand writes a different report than one guessing alone with a purchase-price anchor.

Comp selection is where deals are won before the appraiser shows up. If your ARV came from a wholesaler's sheet or the top three sales in the zip, you didn't estimate ARV, you wrote fiction. I make my ARV case from the three most RECENT renovated sales within a tight radius, and if I can't find three, that itself is information - it means the appraiser won't find them either.

Renovated-to-renovated is the entire game in value neighborhoods. My market trades unrenovated at $50-70/ft and renovated at $110-130/ft on the same street. An appraiser who pulls one unrenovated comp into your grid torpedoes the value through no malice at all. The packet exists mostly to make the renovated comps impossible to miss.

Timing matters more than people think. Refi too fast and the only recent sale on record is your own $80K purchase, which sits in the file like an anchor. Seasoning requirements vary by lender, but even beyond the rules, a little patience lets your comps mature.

And the defensive version of all this: run your numbers at appraisal MINUS 10% before you buy. If the deal only works when the appraisal comes in perfect, you don't have a deal, you have a hope with a mortgage on it.

Questions for the group, because I want to hear other operators' data:

What's the biggest gap you've eaten between expected ARV and actual appraisal - and looking back, was it the appraiser's miss or your comps?

Has anyone successfully challenged a bad appraisal through the lender's reconsideration-of-value process? My hit rate on ROVs is poor and I want to know if anyone's cracked it.

Does anyone else prepare an appraiser packet as standard practice, or am I the paranoid one?

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Garrett MinterPro Member
Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 12 votes
3w
Quote from @James Jones:

Just this month we had a flip in Memphis with a huge miss on appraisal. We were shooting for a 475 ARV. We had 4 comps within 5% of sqft, all within the last 4 months in the same subdivision. 1 unrenovated at 435, 3 renovated from 450-525. Appraiser came back at 385. Looking at his comps, 2 were almost 2 years old and all un-renovated. We were blown away, We submitted an ROV including our 4 comps and he would'nt budge. After talking with the lender and showing them our data they sent a different appraiser out. He came back at 485. Came VERY close to torpedoing our deal.

After reading your post though, I think you're spot on. Ive never thought to provide them with relevant information such as before and after photos and our scope of work. That will be done on all future deals. Just "assumed" he would have all relevant info and make the same determination I would. Thats my mistake not theirs, I will not be making that mistake again. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Erik EstradaBusiness Member
    Lender · Member since 2022 · 6k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1mo
    Quote from @James Jones:

    Memphis operator here - buying, rehabbing, and refinancing rentals since 2003, few hundred doors, my own crews. I've watched a lot of BRRRRs die over the years, and here's the uncomfortable pattern: almost none of them die at the purchase or the rehab. They die at the refi appraisal, which is the one step most investors treat as a formality.

    The math is brutal because it's leveraged. On a typical deal - buy $80K, rehab $40K, ARV $160K - a 75% LTV refi returns $120K and you've recycled every dollar back out. That's the "free house." But if the appraisal comes in at $145K instead of $160K, you don't lose 9%. You lose $11,250 of capital recovery, which for most people is the difference between doing the next deal this year and not. A 9% appraisal miss can be a 100% strategy miss.

    What I've learned actually moves the number, all of it legitimate:

    The appraiser can't read your mind. They see a house that sold for $80K a few months ago and now claims to be worth $160K. Without context, their anchor is the purchase price. So we hand every refi appraiser a packet: itemized scope of work with real costs, before-and-after photos of the same angles, and the three comps WE think are right with a sentence on why each one is comparable. You cannot pressure an appraiser - that's a line you never cross - but you can inform one, and an informed appraiser with good comps in hand writes a different report than one guessing alone with a purchase-price anchor.

    Comp selection is where deals are won before the appraiser shows up. If your ARV came from a wholesaler's sheet or the top three sales in the zip, you didn't estimate ARV, you wrote fiction. I make my ARV case from the three most RECENT renovated sales within a tight radius, and if I can't find three, that itself is information - it means the appraiser won't find them either.

    Renovated-to-renovated is the entire game in value neighborhoods. My market trades unrenovated at $50-70/ft and renovated at $110-130/ft on the same street. An appraiser who pulls one unrenovated comp into your grid torpedoes the value through no malice at all. The packet exists mostly to make the renovated comps impossible to miss.

    Timing matters more than people think. Refi too fast and the only recent sale on record is your own $80K purchase, which sits in the file like an anchor. Seasoning requirements vary by lender, but even beyond the rules, a little patience lets your comps mature.

    And the defensive version of all this: run your numbers at appraisal MINUS 10% before you buy. If the deal only works when the appraisal comes in perfect, you don't have a deal, you have a hope with a mortgage on it.

    Questions for the group, because I want to hear other operators' data:

    What's the biggest gap you've eaten between expected ARV and actual appraisal - and looking back, was it the appraiser's miss or your comps?

    Has anyone successfully challenged a bad appraisal through the lender's reconsideration-of-value process? My hit rate on ROVs is poor and I want to know if anyone's cracked it.

    Does anyone else prepare an appraiser packet as standard practice, or am I the paranoid one?


     I see the ROVs work with inexperienced appraisers or markets that have a lot of grey area. Another item many investors miss is the CDA on the refi. I have seen many instances where the ROV is successful however the lender's own internal value does not support the appraised value. This usually kills the deal or requires a 2nd appraisal/Field Review. 

    There is not much you can do but to firmly run your numbers conservatively, Budget maybe 2-3 appraisals & work with multiple lenders or a broker that can order their own appraisal through the list of lender-approved AMCs and can submit the report to the lender. 

    LuxePrivate Investments LLC 572 Reviews
  • Vijay FriedmanBusiness Member
    Miami, FL · Member since 2026 · 766 posts · 122 votes
    1mo
    Quote from @James Jones:

    Memphis operator here - buying, rehabbing, and refinancing rentals since 2003, few hundred doors, my own crews. I've watched a lot of BRRRRs die over the years, and here's the uncomfortable pattern: almost none of them die at the purchase or the rehab. They die at the refi appraisal, which is the one step most investors treat as a formality.

    The math is brutal because it's leveraged. On a typical deal - buy $80K, rehab $40K, ARV $160K - a 75% LTV refi returns $120K and you've recycled every dollar back out. That's the "free house." But if the appraisal comes in at $145K instead of $160K, you don't lose 9%. You lose $11,250 of capital recovery, which for most people is the difference between doing the next deal this year and not. A 9% appraisal miss can be a 100% strategy miss.

    What I've learned actually moves the number, all of it legitimate:

    The appraiser can't read your mind. They see a house that sold for $80K a few months ago and now claims to be worth $160K. Without context, their anchor is the purchase price. So we hand every refi appraiser a packet: itemized scope of work with real costs, before-and-after photos of the same angles, and the three comps WE think are right with a sentence on why each one is comparable. You cannot pressure an appraiser - that's a line you never cross - but you can inform one, and an informed appraiser with good comps in hand writes a different report than one guessing alone with a purchase-price anchor.

    Comp selection is where deals are won before the appraiser shows up. If your ARV came from a wholesaler's sheet or the top three sales in the zip, you didn't estimate ARV, you wrote fiction. I make my ARV case from the three most RECENT renovated sales within a tight radius, and if I can't find three, that itself is information - it means the appraiser won't find them either.

    Renovated-to-renovated is the entire game in value neighborhoods. My market trades unrenovated at $50-70/ft and renovated at $110-130/ft on the same street. An appraiser who pulls one unrenovated comp into your grid torpedoes the value through no malice at all. The packet exists mostly to make the renovated comps impossible to miss.

    Timing matters more than people think. Refi too fast and the only recent sale on record is your own $80K purchase, which sits in the file like an anchor. Seasoning requirements vary by lender, but even beyond the rules, a little patience lets your comps mature.

    And the defensive version of all this: run your numbers at appraisal MINUS 10% before you buy. If the deal only works when the appraisal comes in perfect, you don't have a deal, you have a hope with a mortgage on it.

    Questions for the group, because I want to hear other operators' data:

    What's the biggest gap you've eaten between expected ARV and actual appraisal - and looking back, was it the appraiser's miss or your comps?

    Has anyone successfully challenged a bad appraisal through the lender's reconsideration-of-value process? My hit rate on ROVs is poor and I want to know if anyone's cracked it.

    Does anyone else prepare an appraiser packet as standard practice, or am I the paranoid one?

    @James Jones
    The -10% appraisal stress test is a good rule. From the lending side, we see the bigger problem when the borrower underwrites the refinance proceeds to a perfect ARV and has no room if value comes in short. The scope, before/after photos, and renovated comps upfront definitely make for a cleaner appraisal review than trying to fix it through an ROV afterward.

    DreamPoint Capital
  • James JonesPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes
    1mo

    Erik - the CDA point is the piece of this thread I hope every reader catches, because it's the failure mode almost nobody budgets for: you win the ROV against the appraisal and then lose to the lender's own desk review anyway. I've eaten that exact sequence once, and it taught me what your comment says outright - the appraisal isn't one gate, it's two, and the second one doesn't take packets. Your "budget 2-3 appraisals and work through a broker with multiple AMC paths" is the honest operational answer, and it belongs in everyone's deal math as a line item, not a surprise. Question back from the lending side: when the CDA and the appraisal disagree by a wide margin, how often does the second full appraisal actually rescue the deal versus just confirming the desk's number?

    Vijay - agreed, and your phrasing is the compact version of the whole post: underwrite proceeds to a perfect ARV and you've borrowed your margin from a number you don't control. Prevention beats appeal, every time.

    Still standing from the original questions: has anyone actually cracked a repeatable ROV process, or is the consensus that ROVs are a lottery ticket and the real answer is conservative underwriting plus lender redundancy? My data says the latter but I'd love to be wrong.

  • J CastroBusiness Member
    Lender · Florida · Member since 2025 · 661 posts · 239 votes
    4w
    Quote from @James Jones:

    Memphis operator here - buying, rehabbing, and refinancing rentals since 2003, few hundred doors, my own crews. I've watched a lot of BRRRRs die over the years, and here's the uncomfortable pattern: almost none of them die at the purchase or the rehab. They die at the refi appraisal, which is the one step most investors treat as a formality.

    The math is brutal because it's leveraged. On a typical deal - buy $80K, rehab $40K, ARV $160K - a 75% LTV refi returns $120K and you've recycled every dollar back out. That's the "free house." But if the appraisal comes in at $145K instead of $160K, you don't lose 9%. You lose $11,250 of capital recovery, which for most people is the difference between doing the next deal this year and not. A 9% appraisal miss can be a 100% strategy miss.

    What I've learned actually moves the number, all of it legitimate:

    The appraiser can't read your mind. They see a house that sold for $80K a few months ago and now claims to be worth $160K. Without context, their anchor is the purchase price. So we hand every refi appraiser a packet: itemized scope of work with real costs, before-and-after photos of the same angles, and the three comps WE think are right with a sentence on why each one is comparable. You cannot pressure an appraiser - that's a line you never cross - but you can inform one, and an informed appraiser with good comps in hand writes a different report than one guessing alone with a purchase-price anchor.

    Comp selection is where deals are won before the appraiser shows up. If your ARV came from a wholesaler's sheet or the top three sales in the zip, you didn't estimate ARV, you wrote fiction. I make my ARV case from the three most RECENT renovated sales within a tight radius, and if I can't find three, that itself is information - it means the appraiser won't find them either.

    Renovated-to-renovated is the entire game in value neighborhoods. My market trades unrenovated at $50-70/ft and renovated at $110-130/ft on the same street. An appraiser who pulls one unrenovated comp into your grid torpedoes the value through no malice at all. The packet exists mostly to make the renovated comps impossible to miss.

    Timing matters more than people think. Refi too fast and the only recent sale on record is your own $80K purchase, which sits in the file like an anchor. Seasoning requirements vary by lender, but even beyond the rules, a little patience lets your comps mature.

    And the defensive version of all this: run your numbers at appraisal MINUS 10% before you buy. If the deal only works when the appraisal comes in perfect, you don't have a deal, you have a hope with a mortgage on it.

    Questions for the group, because I want to hear other operators' data:

    What's the biggest gap you've eaten between expected ARV and actual appraisal - and looking back, was it the appraiser's miss or your comps?

    Has anyone successfully challenged a bad appraisal through the lender's reconsideration-of-value process? My hit rate on ROVs is poor and I want to know if anyone's cracked it.

    Does anyone else prepare an appraiser packet as standard practice, or am I the paranoid one?


    From a lender's perspective, I think you're highlighting one of the most important—and often underestimated—risks in the BRRRR strategy: the refinance appraisal is not a formality. It is a critical part of the exit strategy.

    The investor can execute the acquisition and renovation perfectly and still have a problem if the stabilized value doesn't support the amount needed for the refinance.

    I especially agree with your point about underwriting the deal at less than the expected ARV. Before a borrower closes, I'd want to know what happens if the projected $160K ARV becomes $145K. If the entire strategy falls apart at that point, there probably isn't enough margin in the original deal.

    From the lending side, a few additional considerations are important:

    1. Don't confuse rehab cost with added value.
    Spending $40K on renovations doesn't automatically mean the property gained $40K in value. The market determines the value—not the investor's cost basis.

    2. Understand the lender's refinance requirements before purchasing.
    LTV, DSCR, seasoning, appraisal requirements, property condition, rent documentation, and other program requirements can materially affect how much capital can actually be recovered.

    3. Underwrite the refinance at multiple valuation levels.
    I'd run the numbers at the expected ARV, 5–10% below ARV, and potentially a more conservative value depending on the market. That immediately shows how much additional capital the investor may need.

    4. The appraiser packet is a great idea—as long as it remains informational.
    Providing the scope of work, before-and-after photos, invoices, permits where applicable, and relevant comparable sales can give the appraiser useful context. As you said, there's a very important distinction between providing relevant information and attempting to influence the valuation.

    5. The purchase price itself shouldn't be ignored.
    If an investor buys at $80K and immediately expects the property to appraise at $160K after a $40K renovation, that's a substantial value creation assumption. The investor needs strong market evidence to support it.

    I also think this is where the lender and investor should be having the conversation before the acquisition, not when the renovation is complete.

    A good lender should be able to help the investor understand the proposed refinance structure and identify the key requirements that could affect the exit. The investor can then decide whether the deal still makes sense before committing capital.

    And your final point is probably the most important:

    If the BRRRR only works at the maximum projected appraisal, you're not underwriting a deal—you’re underwriting an outcome.

    The strongest BRRRRs have multiple exits and enough equity/cash reserves to survive an appraisal that comes in below expectations.

    That isn't being overly conservative. It's simply recognizing that the refinance is part of the deal from day one—not something that happens after the deal is finished.

    JCREIG Capital Funding
  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 205 posts · 78 votes
    3w

    Oh, you hit a nerve with this one.

    Yeah, because most investors are betting on the ARV.

    But when you're looking at the exit aspect of a BRRRR, the reality is what all of you stated: it really comes down to the appraisal.

    Maybe it’s a desktop appraisal. Maybe it’s a drive-by. Maybe the appraiser actually goes inside the property.

    But if the appraiser does not get inside the house, evaluate the improvements, and compare it to the comps, is that really any different than a Zestimate?

    And we all know Zestimates are trash.

    So it's a hell of a gamble for investors using the BRRRR strategy and leaning heavily on ARV when the real crux is the appraisal.

    And we haven’t even taken into account if the property is occupied with a tenant.

    The collected rent is another component that has to be weighed.

    So even if the appraisal comes in somewhat good, but the rental income doesn’t pencil out, you still have a predicament.

    It's good to use the BRRRR strategy.

    But I think some folks are not thinking this through entirely.

    There's a lot of optimism in leveraging the BRRRR strategy.

    And when it’s all said and done, after you go through one or two of them, you become what we call optimized or level set.

  • James JonesPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes
    3w

    Two good adds since my last pass through here.

    J, agreed nearly across the board, and your #1 is the sentence I'd staple to half the BRRRR posts on this site: the market determines the value, not your cost basis. $40K of rehab buys $40K of value only if the comps say so. One friendly nuance on your #4: fully agree the packet must stay informational - and that's exactly why it works. Appraisers aren't offended by information; they're starved for it on renovated houses in unrenovated zips. The line I hold my team to: hand them everything, ask them for nothing. And your point about having the refinance conversation before acquisition is the discipline most first-timers skip entirely - the lender doing your refi in month seven should have seen the deal in month zero.

    Gladimir, you're pulling the right thread with the rent side: the appraisal clears the LTV gate, but on a DSCR refi the rent documentation clears a second gate, and plenty of deals pass one and fail the other. This is where Section 8 quietly helps a BRRRR investor, and almost nobody says it out loud: the HAP contract documents the bulk of the rent in a form underwriters can't argue with - it's a government payment history, not a pro forma. And your line about becoming "optimized or level set" after one or two - that's the tuition model in a sentence. Nobody's first BRRRR is their best one. The goal is making sure the first one is survivable.

    My original ROV question is still open, and J, you'd actually know: when a borrower comes back after a low appraisal with a genuine comp package - not a complaint, a package - what's the real-world success rate on reconsideration of value? My data says ROVs are a lottery ticket and conservative underwriting plus lender redundancy is the actual answer, but I'd love a lender to tell me I'm wrong with numbers.

  • Sacramento, CA · Member since 2026 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    3w

    I'm glad I came across your post because I just posted about this today, I'm new here, small time real estate investor in Northern CA. This is the exact issue that has been a major barrier for us and is keeping our equity locked up. We've done 4 refi appraisals over the past 6 yrs or so (we only do a home deal every other year or so) and the appraisals all came in not 9% but 15-25% below ARV. I did question one of them and the appraiser said that exact thing, you bought this home less than a year ago and how I can justify to the bank why it has gone up $100-150K in value? (E.g. we bought one in 2022 for $240K, ARV $380-400K but appraised at $320K). Esp in CA, appraisers won't go above that $100K increase mark. And I was having that same exact problem, they pulled old comps up to a year old and a wide radius, when in our metropolitan area you go three blocks south and the home values can drastically change. And like you said comps are not even rehabbed/renovated like our houses. I tried to challenge but no success, I really like your idea of informing the appraiser with a full report, I will try this next time (cause for real, LOOK at how bad this property was when we bought it!! And look at the actual receipts of how much it costs to rehab in CA nowadays! It's like the appraisers are living in pre- 2000's lala land). I will talk to my loan office about the option of using her own list of approved appraisers, I didn't know this could be a thing? She told me we got an appraiser at random from a list the banks use which has been awful results for us.

    • Quy HuynhBusiness Member
      Lender · Huntington Beach · Member since 2023 · 10 posts · 6 votes
      2w

      Hi Janee,

      I'm from SoCal so we're both west coast folks. I totally understand your frustration and as a loan officer we cannot order an appraisal directly from the appraiser, it is through an AMC (appraisal management company) after the 2008 mortgage meltdown. It is tough and on the lending side we do take the brunt of the frustrations some times since "the lender ordered the appraiser and he / she didn't get the value right............"

      The lenders usually want to see the scope of work, list of the costs and what you did to the property to justify the newer higher value. In certain areas the pool of appraisers might be small so that make it tougher to get a an appraiser out there to inspect the property in a timely manner, what we're actually looking for how / what we think the value, the loan officers / mortgage brokers, can ask the AMC for an appraiser with competency in that specific market, and you can request removal of one who demonstrates a lack of it. You cannot name a preference that you or the investor, real estate agent would like to use.

      The section where you said about the appraiser not going above the $100k mark has no such cap or requirements anywhere from my experience. It sounds like this his own opinion of it and not a set cap or rule which most likely means he could not find supporting documents to support the value. I hope this helps and good luck hunting for new properties out there!

      West Group Capital, LLC powered by NEXA Lending, LLC
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  • Garrett MinterPro Member
    Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    3w
    Quote from @James Jones:

    Just this month we had a flip in Memphis with a huge miss on appraisal. We were shooting for a 475 ARV. We had 4 comps within 5% of sqft, all within the last 4 months in the same subdivision. 1 unrenovated at 435, 3 renovated from 450-525. Appraiser came back at 385. Looking at his comps, 2 were almost 2 years old and all un-renovated. We were blown away, We submitted an ROV including our 4 comps and he would'nt budge. After talking with the lender and showing them our data they sent a different appraiser out. He came back at 485. Came VERY close to torpedoing our deal.

    After reading your post though, I think you're spot on. Ive never thought to provide them with relevant information such as before and after photos and our scope of work. That will be done on all future deals. Just "assumed" he would have all relevant info and make the same determination I would. Thats my mistake not theirs, I will not be making that mistake again. 

  • James JonesPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes
    3w

    Garrett, this is the most useful reply the thread has gotten, and I want to point out what you just did without meaning to: you answered the open question I asked at the top of this thread, with data.

    I'd asked lenders what the real-world success rate is on a reconsideration of value when a borrower comes back with a genuine comp package - not a complaint, a package. You brought four comps, all within 5% on square footage, all in the same subdivision, all within four months. That is about as clean an ROV as exists. The appraiser wouldn't budge. Then the LENDER ordered a second appraiser and the number came back a hundred grand higher, at 485. Same house, same week, same comps available to both.

    So the lesson isn't "file better ROVs." It's this: an ROV asks a human being to publicly revise his own professional judgment, and most won't, no matter what you put in front of them. A second appraisal asks a different human being to form a fresh one. Your $385 wasn't a valuation, it was one guy anchoring on two-year-old unrenovated sales. The fix that worked was redundancy, not persuasion.

    What I'd take into your next deal, since you're already changing your process: build the second-appraisal option BEFORE you need it. When you're setting up financing, ask the lender directly - under what circumstances will you order a second appraisal, who pays for it, and how many days does it add? Get the answer while they're courting your business, not while you're panicking at day 40. Lenders vary enormously on this and almost nobody asks until it's an emergency.

    And your appraiser's mistake is a specific, nameable one worth watching for: he pulled unrenovated comps into a renovated grid. In markets where unrenovated and renovated stock trade at completely different prices per foot - which is most of Memphis - that single error is the whole gap between 385 and 485. When you hand over your packet, don't just include your comps; say in one line why each of his likely comps is NOT comparable. Condition, not proximity, is the argument.

    Curious what part of town that flip was in - at a 475 ARV you're in a very different Memphis than the one I operate in, and I'd guess you're competing with owner-occupants rather than investors on the exit. Glad it landed at 485.

  • Garrett MinterPro Member
    Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    3w

    James, 

    Yes this house is a flip. 38119 specifically. I think something you mentioned in another thread was that alot of the sub 200 ARV areas really require intimate knowledge from one street to the next and boots on the ground. Ive got a good team up there I trust but at the end of the day its my butt on the line not theirs. I just don't feel confident in those lower price points from down here in Fort Worth. Its not hard and fast, but a quick rule of thumb for me when sorting deals to BRRRR is $1300+ rent comps and or 150k+ ARV. That "usually" puts me in an area with consistent appreciation YoY. Below that I generally pass because I have 5 more to look at.


    Flips I generally like to stay Bartlett, Germantown or further east. But I need to see recent comps with low DOM close to or at asking before I start looking deeper. 

  • James JonesPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes
    2w

    Garrett - your $1300 rent / $150K ARV rule is smarter than you're giving it credit for. It isn't just a return threshold, it's a proxy for the appraisal problem in this whole thread. Under about that line in Memphis you're in ZIPs where unrenovated stock and renovated stock trade under the same median, which is exactly the condition that produced your 385 on a 475 house. Above it you're mostly in one product, and the comps behave. You found the boundary empirically from Fort Worth without anybody telling you where it was. Hold that line.

    Now the part you'll actually want, because it hits your stated flip target. Watch Bartlett right now. 38134 clears most people's screens on the Zillow-style index - looks like values holding - but Redfin's median sold price there is down double digits year over year with inventory up. A data guy and I went back and forth on it this week and the honest read is that both numbers are true: a hedonic index and a median-sold measure disagree when the mix of what's trading changes, and in Bartlett what's trading right now skews small and dated. Days on market in Shelby County is running around 67. Bartlett isn't broken, but it is softening, and it's softening in a way that a single index won't show you until after you've bought.

    Practical version for your sorting process: before you commit to a Bartlett flip, pull the ZIP on a second index and treat disagreement between the two as information rather than noise. If the hedonic index says flat and median-sold says down twelve, you're being told the mix is changing under you, and on a flip the mix is your buyer pool. That's cheap insurance and it costs you ten minutes.

    And for what it's worth, "it's my butt on the line not theirs" is the correct instinct and the reason your ROV story ended at 485 instead of a writedown. You didn't argue the appraiser into a different number, you got a second one. Redundancy beats persuasion every time in this business.

  • New to Real Estate · Louisville, KY · Member since 2024 · 9 posts · 11 votes
    2w

    This is was very helpful information, I'm adding this to my notes.

  • Gregory AcsPro Member
    Lender · MD · Member since 2025 · 137 posts · 52 votes
    1w

    This is such an important point, especially for newer BRRRR investors. I think too many people underwrite the deal assuming the refinance is guaranteed, when in reality the appraisal can have a huge impact on how much capital they recover. I also like to stress test deals by asking, "What happens if the appraisal comes in 10% lower than expected?" If the deal still works and you can comfortably leave some capital in it, you're usually in a much stronger position.

    Preparing a solid package for the appraiser is a great practice. If anyone is planning a BRRRR and wants to compare refinance scenarios or understand how different appraisal outcomes could affect their financing, I'd be happy to help walk through the numbers.

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