Under Contract on a 4plex

Under Contract on a 4plex

Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 5 votes

I am UC on a 4 plex and there is everything wrong with this property.

Major Foundation issues:

- floors diving all over the place

- cabinets separated from the floors by 5 inches in one spot

- sewer line previously broke in foundation (they jackhammered floors, and replaced broken portion, but didn’t re level, so line still has belly holding 1” of water)

- Concrete deck on second level failing (no supports, concrete chipping and cracking, rebar exposed.

- Needs Roof

- soffits collapsed in 1 area leaving attic exposed

- water damage

- 2 water heaters needed

- in flood zone stream runs through property

I own 1 house hack, but this would be my first big boy investment. Just feels like everything that could be wrong is wrong. Getting a structural engineer, but wondering if walking away is the prudent call here. Max gross CF about $3k/mo once fully leased with section 8, most likely closer to $2k. With moderate assumptions for maint, reserves, vac, barely cashflows. But has potential being four 3/2 units (most quads around here are 2/1’s. Just curious to get thoughts here. I know no deal is perfect, but just wondering im walking into a world of hurt, or I should try to make it work. Motivated sellers (tried to term 2x, they keep trying to keep me in the deal. 

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Investor · Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa · Member since 2019 · 49 posts · 77 votes
1mo

I'm guessing given the purchase price that the earnest money was something like $10,000? Obviously that's the cost of walking away, unless you have an inspection contingency, an inspection contingency would be your leverage to work these issues into the deal. 

I've personally never purchased a deal with so many issues. Making repairs after buying something is not a deal breaker, so long as you work those into your plan. Some of those issues (Flood zone, water damage, needs roof, foundation issues) I think are worth cutting losses over. If my vision for the property and use of the property as a building block in my portfolio wasn't fundamentally changed by the new repair plans, then I would keep it. Are there better deals available? There should be turn key fourplexes available at that price (maybe not in your market I don't want to assume)

If no inspection contingency. The seller is now aware of these issues and would probably need to disclose them to any other buyer, they might be willing to negotiate because of this alone. If they don't, you could even back out of this contract and still engage them with a fair offer price for their property (with repair costs considered).   

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  • Aaron ZimmermanBusiness Member
    Accountant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1mo

    Can you share the full numbers?

    id see if you can get closing credit or purchase price discount

  • Devin PetersonBusiness Member
    Lender · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2022 · 2k+ posts · 664 votes
    1mo

    Aaron is correct. Can you share more context about the specifics of the deal?

  • Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 5 votes
    1mo

    PP: $925k. Purchasing 5% downer owner OC for 1 year. 2 units sec 8 bringing $4600. 2 vacant. PITI ~6700-7000. Reasonable potential rents $9k, potential for > $10k if all sec 8.

    Obviously some big capex. 

  • Investor · Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa · Member since 2019 · 49 posts · 77 votes
    1mo

    I'm guessing given the purchase price that the earnest money was something like $10,000? Obviously that's the cost of walking away, unless you have an inspection contingency, an inspection contingency would be your leverage to work these issues into the deal. 

    I've personally never purchased a deal with so many issues. Making repairs after buying something is not a deal breaker, so long as you work those into your plan. Some of those issues (Flood zone, water damage, needs roof, foundation issues) I think are worth cutting losses over. If my vision for the property and use of the property as a building block in my portfolio wasn't fundamentally changed by the new repair plans, then I would keep it. Are there better deals available? There should be turn key fourplexes available at that price (maybe not in your market I don't want to assume)

    If no inspection contingency. The seller is now aware of these issues and would probably need to disclose them to any other buyer, they might be willing to negotiate because of this alone. If they don't, you could even back out of this contract and still engage them with a fair offer price for their property (with repair costs considered).   

  • Ashish AcharyaBusiness Member
    CPA, CFP®, PFS · FL · Member since 2017 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1mo

    Nick, I’d let the structural engineer and the numbers make this decision for you, not the desire to “make the deal work.”

    With foundation movement, an unresolved sewer belly, a failing elevated concrete deck, roof issues, water damage, and flood-zone exposure all showing up at once, I’d want firm repair estimates and a very large contingency before removing any due-diligence protection. The danger is not one bad item. It’s that several major systems can interact and turn a projected rehab into something much larger.

    I’d also underwrite this based on the lower realistic rent, not the best-case $3K/month gross. Then add vacancy, management, taxes, flood and property insurance, ongoing repairs, reserves, and the financing cost of carrying the property through stabilization. If the deal only works because every rehab estimate is right and every unit reaches the high end of rent, I’d be comfortable walking.

    From the tax side, if you do move forward, track every major component separately during the rehab. Roof, water heaters, flooring, plumbing, structural work, and other improvements may receive different treatment. If existing depreciable components are replaced after the property is placed in service, there may also be partial-disposition opportunities depending on the facts.

    Once the property is stabilized and placed in service, I’d evaluate cost segregation too. It may accelerate depreciation on qualifying components, but do a detailed analysis first to make sure you can actually use the resulting losses under the passive-loss rules.

    There are deals worth solving and deals where the best return comes from keeping your capital for the next one. I’d want a lot of margin before taking on this many major unknowns at once.

    Happy to connect!

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  • G. Brian DavisPro Member
    Investor · Hatboro, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 842 votes
    4w

    Foundation problems, the deck, sewer, roof, water damage and the flood zone are a lot to take on, especially when the property barely cash flows. I’d wait for the structural engineer and get some real numbers on the major repairs. But I wouldn’t let the fact that it’s four 3/2s or that the sellers really want you to stay in the deal change your decision. If the numbers don’t work after you account for the problems, I’d walk. There will be another deal.

  • Lender · NJ · Member since 2025 · 50 posts · 23 votes
    3w

    I'd definitely get the structural engineer's opinion before making the call. With that many issues, the $30k rehab estimate could change pretty quickly once everything is opened up.

    I'd also run the numbers using a higher repair budget and some extra reserves. If the deal still makes sense after that, you'd have a much better idea of whether the problems are actually deal breakers.

  • Member since 2023 · 25 posts · 5 votes
    3w

    Hi Nick,

    You've tried to terminate twice.

    Start there. You already know the answer. What you're looking for is permission, so let me give you some, plus four things nobody has raised yet.

    The Section 8 money may not survive the repairs.

    Two of your four units are voucher units, and that $4,600 is what's holding this together right now.

    Housing quality inspections happen annually and after major work. A collapsed soffit with the attic open. Water damage. Failing roof. Exposed rebar on a walkway people use to reach their front door.

    Those are failable items. A unit that fails and doesn't get cured in the window stops getting paid on.

    So your only income is sitting on top of the same defects you're planning to fix, and the fixing is what triggers the look.

    Your carry.

    PITI runs $6,700 to $7,000. Collections are $4,600. You're $2,200 a month out of pocket before one repair, before insurance, before management.

    Now put foundation leveling, a re-slope of a sewer line under the slab, a roof, and a structural deck rebuild on a calendar. Eight months? Twelve?

    Twelve months at $2,200 is $26,000 in negative carry, on top of the rehab. And that math assumes your two occupied units stay occupied and paying while crews jackhammer the floors underneath them.

    They won't.

    Flood insurance is a gate.

    A stream runs through the property and it's in a mapped flood zone. Your lender will require coverage, and on a four unit with documented water damage, get a bound quote before you spend another dollar on anything.

    Some carriers will decline it. If nobody writes it at a number you can carry, this is over no matter what the engineer says. (That phone call is free and could end this whole thing by Tuesday.)

    Check your hazard policy the same way. Underwriters ask about roof age and prior water claims, and they ask the seller's carrier too.

    The seller is telling you something.

    You tried to walk twice and they keep pulling you back. That's a seller who knows exactly what happens when this property hits the market again with a structural report attached to it.

    You're the only buyer they have. All the leverage in this deal is yours, and you're experiencing it as pressure.

    Now the friend part.

    Every deal has problems. Every single one, not only the bad ones. I was around fifteen deals in before that clicked, and until then every problem felt like evidence I'd screwed up somewhere.

    But foundation movement, a slab sewer belly, a failing structural deck, a roof, water damage, and a flood zone all at once isn't a punch list. That's the building telling you what it is.

    And by your own numbers it barely cash flows after you fix all of it.

    Your earnest money is real and losing it will sting. Set it against $26,000 of negative carry, an open-ended rehab, and a 95 percent loan on a $925,000 property with no equity underneath you.

    Earnest money is the cheapest exit you'll ever be offered here.

    If you keep going, two things. Have the structural engineer write you a scope of repairs rather than an opinion, so every contractor bids the same work and you get a real number instead of a range. And scope the sewer again with a written report, because the engineer won't address plumbing and that belly is under concrete somebody already broke once.

    Then take the whole package back to the seller and reprice it. If they say no, you have your answer and you didn't have to be brave about it.

  • Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2026 · 511 posts · 286 votes
    3w

    I wouldn’t ask whether this property is “too broken.” I’d ask whether you’re being paid enough to own the problems.

    At $925K, the answer looks like no.

    Even at $9K/month in rent, you’ve only got roughly $2K left after PITI before vacancy, maintenance, management, reserves, flood insurance, or one dollar of rehab. Meanwhile you’re staring at foundation, sewer, roof, structural concrete, water intrusion, and flood exposure. That’s not cosmetic upside. Those are six different ways for the budget to get punched in the mouth.

    The interesting part is that you’ve tried to terminate twice and the seller keeps pulling you back. That tells me I wouldn’t negotiate for a $20K credit and try to convince myself the deal works. I’d finish the engineer report, sewer scope, insurance quotes, and actual contractor bids, add carrying costs plus a serious contingency, and reprice the entire property around that number.

    If the seller accepts a number where you’re adequately compensated for the risk, maybe you have a deal.

    If they don’t, walk.

    A bad building can be a good investment at the right basis. A bad building at a price that requires everything to go right is just a bad investment.

  • Real Estate Agent · Denver CO · Member since 2019 · 209 posts · 332 votes
    3w

    I'd buy only if you have a good plan for if things don't go according to plan. Move into one unit and STR the rest, build on the lot, early insight into path of progress, etc...

    I think you can repair all the issues with the property but even after doing so selling might be hard in the future. Honestly, I love deals like these as the third buyer. The previous owner/investor is tasked with fixing all the headaches, but it's still viewed as a problem property and sells at a steep discount for the next buyer.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    3w

    What's a conservative ARV?

    What's your estimate to fix everything?

    If you increase it by 20% to be safe for hidden surprises, and factor in another 10-20% for your time & effort to manage the rehab, subtract those numbers from the ARV, how does that number compare to your purchase price?

    A big project like this can be a great learning experience - IF YOU CAN SURVIVE IT!

  • Nicholas FloydBusiness Member
    NY · Member since 2026 · 165 posts · 55 votes
    3w

    I’d underwrite this from the total basis and worst-case rehab number, not just the purchase price. Foundation movement, a failed elevated concrete deck, sewer issues, roof/water intrusion and flood-zone exposure are several separate risk categories hitting the same deal. Before removing contingencies, I’d want a structural engineer report, sewer scope, actual contractor bids, flood/insurance quotes and a realistic stabilized expense estimate. If it only barely cash flows before those numbers are fully known, the margin for error is probably too thin. The motivated seller is useful leverage, but I’d need a significant price reduction or credits that compensate for the risk rather than trying to make the current numbers work.

  • Member since 2026 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    2w

    Wow. Too bad you didn’t find mine I’ve been quietly shopping around in Denver. 4 plex. 3 great tenants through July 31 and Aug 31 2027. $4572 in rents. 1 bedroom unit open still. Turnkey. I can’t figure out where to find a buyer. Traditional mls not working so well so I’ve taken off. - were you not allowed an inspection?

  • Columbia, SC · Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    2w

    The single most important number for you right now isn't cash flow- it's what a storm of deferred maintenance does to your year one return. 1. Rent roll sanity check: you're quoting gross cash flow of 2k to 3k /month do fully leased on four 3/2 units. Put actual market-rent comps (3-5 nearby units, not the section  projection) behind it. If that range is the section 8 assumption, run both the section 8 number and market rate number. The gap between them is often the whole deal. 2. Expense build on vacancy 5-6k on property taxes from county records, insurance actually cost here, it's not a rounding error, management 8 to 10% capex reserves 5 to 10%. A 1940s era quad with a failing foundation, etc. Happy to sanity check whatever you have.

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2w

    Anything structural I would run from, I assume you have inspection contingency just cancel. In my market Chicago many buildings have settling but 5 inches is too significant. Even if you fix the cause of the issue the floors will likely still be leaning in spots they just wont get worse and it being visually slanted will negatively affect you when comes time to eventually sell it for a profit yourself. 

  • Nicholas FloydBusiness Member
    NY · Member since 2026 · 165 posts · 55 votes
    2w

    With foundation issues, a failing deck, roof, sewer, water damage and flood-zone exposure, I’d want the structural engineer’s report and real contractor bids before making any decision. The bigger concern to me is that you’re already saying it barely cash flows under moderate assumptions. A heavy rehab can turn a thin-margin deal into a capital drain very quickly.

    I’d also confirm insurance costs, flood requirements, lender restrictions and build in a substantial contingency for the rehab. Access to business funding or a line of credit can be useful for unexpected project costs, but I wouldn’t use additional capital to make a bad deal work. If the numbers still make sense after the true rehab scope is known, then having capital lined up before closing becomes a major advantage.

  • Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5d

    There are a couple of things:

    1. With enough money anything can be fixed.

    2. Do you have the time to address these issues?

    3. Is the price in line given all of this?

    4. Do you have not only the money to do the repairs, but also carrying costs in the meantime? Getting a bid from a contractor is good, but understanding the timeline to get it done is another.

    5. The biggest thing here is are there other options? Typically if there is one or two things wrong, that's typical. One property might have a sewer issue and other a roof. No property is perfect. The challenge here is it is a little bit of everything. My hunch tells me there are other options that wouldn't be as bad.

    6. Are you going to run into financing issues not just for the condition (because that can be fixed) but because of the flood channel and getting insurance. Insurance companies are getting picky.

    My first instinct is to run unless you have the capital, time, and the price is right.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1d

    This is one of those situations where if you've got to ask the question it means that you aren't ready for it.

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