About to drop 125k CASH for Firestone Park, Akron, OH & having an OOS PANIC ATTACK!

New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes

I acquired a Buyer's Agent from Zillow, told him I'm out of state & like a property, and now things are moving more quickly than I'm comfortable with. I hear many folks say, "Don't get stuck in Analysis Paralysis." But, ya know, we have to do enough analysis before we hand over our $125k life savings. Might any of you fine folks here in Bigger Pockets Land lend your analysis wisdom of Firestone Park - Akron OH? Thanks, y'all!

I'm looking for high cash flow and hoping for good appreciation in 7 years.

Asking Price: $130,000
Offering: $125,000 CASH
Rent Estimate: $1200 to $1400
4/2 Single Family
Nice new kitchen & bath
Hardwood floors
Needs painting inside
Roof & siding a little worn
Basement a teeny bit leaky in big rain storms

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Travis TimmonsPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Don't do it. I can think of 500 (maybe more) better ideas to deploy $125k in cash than to buy a fixer in Akron as an out of state, first time investor.

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Travis Biziorek
Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Having the jitters is normal, that said it's unclear how much due diligence you've done.
So it's hard to know if this is normal jitters or justified. If you want to share the address, I'm happy to give my opinion on it. While I don't know Akron all that well I do know these sorts of areas VERY well and am confident I can give some solid advice either way.
1 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Brian Bryson:

1. I would only do it if you have a good property manager lined up. You need someone to handle things if the property is difficult.
2. Just do it. The worst thing to happen is that you learn some hard lessons and lose a few thousand.
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Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Brian Bryson:

I acquired a Buyer's Agent from Zillow, told him I'm out of state & like a property, and now things are moving more quickly than I'm comfortable with. I hear many folks say, "Don't get stuck in Analysis Paralysis." But, ya know, we have to do enough analysis before we hand over our $125k life savings. Might any of you fine folks here in Bigger Pockets Land lend your analysis wisdom of Firestone Park - Akron OH? Thanks, y'all!

I'm looking for high cash flow and hoping for good appreciation in 7 years.

Asking Price: $130,000
Offering: $125,000 CASH
Rent Estimate: $1200 to $1400
4/2 Single Family
Nice new kitchen & bath
Hardwood floors
Needs painting inside
Roof & siding a little worn
Basement a teeny bit leaky in big rain storms

This is NOT a good deal, 125k plus repairs, Roof, 7kish, ? All cosmetic, 5k, so this will be 20k, So all in 150kish, NOT a good deal. I am sure there are other items. I have a client with 200 there. I just renovated 7 for him., Starting 5 more next week. DO NOTHING without a team in place. BTW, your realtor is NOT part of your team. Who's doing your PM ? Who's walking it to determine all repairs?
0 Reply
Travis TimmonsPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Don't do it. I can think of 500 (maybe more) better ideas to deploy $125k in cash than to buy a fixer in Akron as an out of state, first time investor.
4 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you, Bob! I appreciate it! I came here to be talked out of it by folks smarter than me. I did walk away from the deal. Thanks for making me feel good about that decision! Cheers!
2 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you, Travis! I appreciate it! I came here to be talked out of it by folks smarter than me. I did walk away from the deal. Thanks for making me feel good about that decision! And, if you’d be willing to share, I’d like to hear a few of those 500 ideas you mentioned! Thanks again!
1 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you, Nathan! I appreciate it!
0 Reply
Michael SmytheBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
@Brian Bryson 95+% of agents do NOT know how to work with investors. All they know how to do is work with owner-occupants.
Don't believe this? Ask one of them to SHOW you how to calculate ROI and then compare it to one of the BP Calculators!
The most important team member is your PMC. Agents & lenders are only transaction based, your PMC has to deal with your property EVERY day.
The challenge is finding a good PMC.
Encourage you to learn from the mistakes of others - by reading posts here on BiggerPockets about owners not having their expectations met by their current Property Management Company.

To avoid going through the same poor experience, keep reading.

Even if someone give you a referral, don’t make the mistake of assuming that PMC will meet your expectations, just because they met the expectations of the referral source.

We also can’t believe how many owners hire the first PMC they speak with!

Then they complain their expectations aren’t being met!

In our experience, the #1 mistake owners make when selecting a Property Management Company (PMC) is ASSUMING instead of CONFIRMING.

It's often a case of not doing enough research, as they don't know what they don't know!

Owners mistakenly ASSUME all PMCs offer the exact SAME SERVICES and PERFORM those services EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, so price is the only differentiator – and they often select the first PMC they call!

So, the first question they usually ask a PMC is about fees - instead of asking about services and HOW those services are executed.

EXAMPLE: PMC states they will handle tenant screening – what does that specifically mean? What documents do they require, what credit scores do they allow, how do they verify previous rental history, etc.? You’d be shocked by how little actual screening many PMC’s do!

This also leads owners to ASSUME simpler is better when it comes to management contracts.

The reality is the opposite - if it's not in writing then the PMC doesn't have to provide the service or can charge extra for it!

We have a 14-page management contract that we've added our real experiences to over the years, with the intent of protecting both us AND the landlord. Beyond the Monthly Management, Placement & Maintenance fees, all other fees in our contract are IF EVENT -> THEN fees.

We don’t know any PMCs to recommend in the area mentioned, but since selecting the wrong PMC is usually more harmful than selecting a bad tenant, you might want to read our series about “How to Screen a PMC Better than a Tenant”:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3094/91877-how-to-screen-a-pmc-better-than-a-tenant-part-1-services-and-processes

We recommend you get management contracts from several PMCs and compare the services they cover and, more importantly, what they each DO NOT cover.

EDUCATE YOURSELF - yes, it will take time, but will lead to a selection that better meets your expectations & avoids potentially costly surprises!

P.S. If you just hire the cheapest or first PMC you speak with and it turns into a bad experience, please don’t assume ALL PMC’s are bad and start trashing PMC’s in general. Take ownership of your mistake and learn to do the proper due diligence recommended above😊
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1 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you, Michael! Excellent advice! I appreciate it!
0 Reply
Ryan Randall
NH · Member since 2016 · 56 posts · 73 votes
3y
I bought in Akron a long time ago. I've since sold all those properties and bought local. Buying in Akron was a mistake, but I learned some important lessons along the way. For that tenant class, the headaches are not worth it.

Fyi in my short 2 years owning properties there, I dealt with 4 evictions, dogs ******** on walls, cat piss along the whole wall and even the ceiling, and a tenant throwing all their kids toys into the wall vents.

Yeah, avoid this area.
3 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Bob S.:

Quote from @Brian Bryson:

I acquired a Buyer's Agent from Zillow, told him I'm out of state & like a property, and now things are moving more quickly than I'm comfortable with. I hear many folks say, "Don't get stuck in Analysis Paralysis." But, ya know, we have to do enough analysis before we hand over our $125k life savings. Might any of you fine folks here in Bigger Pockets Land lend your analysis wisdom of Firestone Park - Akron OH? Thanks, y'all!

I'm looking for high cash flow and hoping for good appreciation in 7 years.

Asking Price: $130,000
Offering: $125,000 CASH
Rent Estimate: $1200 to $1400
4/2 Single Family
Nice new kitchen & bath
Hardwood floors
Needs painting inside
Roof & siding a little worn
Basement a teeny bit leaky in big rain storms

This is NOT a good deal, 125k plus repairs, Roof, 7kish, ? All cosmetic, 5k, so this will be 20k, So all in 150kish, NOT a good deal. I am sure there are other items. I have a client with 200 there. I just renovated 7 for him., Starting 5 more next week. DO NOTHING without a team in place. BTW, your realtor is NOT part of your team. Who's doing your PM ? Who's walking it to determine all repairs?

since your in N. CA just stick to something within an hour of you or so.. Lake County Ukiah even a cabin in Gureneville Monte Rio that you can rent to SF weekenders .. far better move for a first time landlord then going all the way across the country..
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2 Reply
Adam Miller
Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
3y
Keep in mind, Im a novice.
I lived in Firestone park for 15 years though. I house hacked during those years, then I moved to South Florida. I kept the property and have LTR it out the last 3 years. 2 of those years had one tenant that went sour, very sour, had to drop a ton of money getting it cleaned back up, mostly because I let them, and was trying to be a nice guy. The last year has been wonderful. Truly wonderful tenants that always pay early, and they keep the place clean. I have not had a PMC. I have a 3 bed 1 bath near the park that I rent for $1250. At most, this property has been vacant only a few months between the 2 tenants while I cleaned it up after the first.

My opinion of Firestone park, the closer to the actual park the better. Almost anything up to several blocks north of Archwood Ave, West of Main Street, or East of 77 (especially closer to Arlington) is becoming sketchy and I wouldn't expect much appreciation. I wouldn't personally buy anything in those areas. If I could buy another door near (within a few blocks of) the park, all in to get it up to speed for $125k, personally I would do it. That said, Im not sure much appreciation is going on in this area, but I am cash flowing.
0 Reply
Daniel Miller
Property Manager · Akron, OH · Member since 2022 · 7 posts · 1 vote
3y
Quote from @Travis Timmons:

Don't do it. I can think of 500 (maybe more) better ideas to deploy $125k in cash than to buy a fixer in Akron as an out of state, first time investor.

Truth! Glad you backed out @Brian Bryson.
0 Reply
Travis TimmonsPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Brian Bryson:

Thank you, Travis! I appreciate it! I came here to be talked out of it by folks smarter than me. I did walk away from the deal. Thanks for making me feel good about that decision! And, if you’d be willing to share, I’d like to hear a few of those 500 ideas you mentioned! Thanks again!

@Brian Bryson Sorry if that was a bit dramatic. I'd rather you put 20-25% down in an area with better long term appreciation prospects, a better tenant pool, and a lower hassle factor. If that happens to be closer to home, that would be ideal. If you insist on cash, my first idea would be to find a 2 bed, 1 bath house in a midwestern college town that has a 300-600 bed hospital, furnish it, and do a mid term rental. You'd have both traveling medical professionals and students as tenant sources. That budget may be a bit low for cash to get in a good location.
I'd encourage you, as a random example, to put $80k down on a $400k property (maybe a 2-4 unit) in a market with a growing population if that is an option.
0 Reply
Colby Zeller
Member since 2022 · 55 posts · 77 votes
3y
Sounds like you have done your due diligence and your hw ! Aslong as you have a strong team in place I'd take the leap, wishing you the best of luck
0 Reply
Joshua D.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 18 votes
3y
Whoa

0 Reply
Joshua D.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 18 votes
3y
My advice is don't let money burn a hole in your pocket. This goes out to everyone. You F-ng deal junkies! lol
0 Reply
Jason Allen
Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 72 votes
3y
Quote from @Ryan Randall:

I bought in Akron a long time ago. I've since sold all those properties and bought local. Buying in Akron was a mistake, but I learned some important lessons along the way. For that tenant class, the headaches are not worth it.

Fyi in my short 2 years owning properties there, I dealt with 4 evictions, dogs ******** on walls, cat piss along the whole wall and even the ceiling, and a tenant throwing all their kids toys into the wall vents.

Yeah, avoid this area.

Kids toys in the vents? Bah, that seems like a bonus (if you have kids).
0 Reply
Laurence K.
Investor · Padstow New South Wales, Australia · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 27 votes
3y
@Brian Bryson
I’m an out of country investor from Australia and I’ve invested in Akron for the past 8 years.
I’ve had some tenant horror stories, but overall it was a good decision to invest there.
A few takeaway things I’ve learned.
Cash for keys is your friend- get the problems out asap.
Property management in the area sucks - overservicing, fee gouging, etc. are rampant. I sacked all of mine and now self manage.
A reliable & honest contractor is the most valuable member of your team.
Security cameras (multi family) are worth their weight in gold.
2 Reply
Eric Gerakos
Investor · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Ryan Randall:

I bought in Akron a long time ago. I've since sold all those properties and bought local. Buying in Akron was a mistake, but I learned some important lessons along the way. For that tenant class, the headaches are not worth it.

Fyi in my short 2 years owning properties there, I dealt with 4 evictions, dogs ******** on walls, cat piss along the whole wall and even the ceiling, and a tenant throwing all their kids toys into the wall vents.

Yeah, avoid this area.
Should be required reading for new investors.....
2 Reply
Joshua D.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 18 votes
3y
Quote from @Ryan Randall:

I bought in Akron a long time ago. I've since sold all those properties and bought local. Buying in Akron was a mistake, but I learned some important lessons along the way. For that tenant class, the headaches are not worth it.

Fyi in my short 2 years owning properties there, I dealt with 4 evictions, dogs ******** on walls, cat piss along the whole wall and even the ceiling, and a tenant throwing all their kids toys into the wall vents.

Yeah, avoid this area.

Akron is a terrible market. Please be careful and stop buying properties over there. It is better to buy 3% caps in LA/OC and pray for appreciation!
0 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you so much, Laurence K! That’s very helpful!
0 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Thank you, Colby!
0 Reply
Brian Bryson
OP
New to Real Estate · Sebastopol, CA · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 10 votes
3y
Excellent advice, Travis! Very helpful! Thank you!
0 Reply
Aldo FazioPro Member
Contractor · Sonoma County · Member since 2023 · 15 posts · 7 votes
3y
Hi Brian, it sounds like you made the right move. I'm in a similar situation (and location, Guerneville) in that I had to walk from a cash deal in Kansas City, MO just last month. It all seemed good on paper but we couldn't see the place till it was under contract, which should have been a big fed flag. There were long term tenants for 13 years and wanted to stay. The rent exceeded the 1% rule so I made a cash offer and got accepted. The place ended up being a neglected lemon occupied by hoarders! Naturally, I walked. But what's a newbie to do? I have been analyzing tons of deals in KC and the numbers just haven't worked yet. Do I have analysis paralysis or am I not finding the right kind of deal? Who knows! Best of luck to you on your journey, and I hope to see you on here or in town!
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