Should you spend money on the so called Guru's.

Should you spend money on the so called Guru's.

Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 68 posts · 33 votes

Just to be up front. I personally have spent 40 to $50,000 on training and about ten percent was of no use, That being said, my first seminar cost me just under $500 and within two weeks I had my first deal. I used hard money at 18% and made $24,000. Don't get me wrong it was a difficult rehab with many issues. Including a supposed experienced investor I took on as a partner who caught it on fire twice. Enough said.

First there is so much information for free or almost nothing that you should take advantage of first. I could reccomend some that are in my veiw very legitimate. I won't because I don't believe BP wants that on this site.

I will say this, I have made way more than I ever spent in this business on training.

I don't care for the bashing of so called Guru's on this site but I understand. On that subject though, I will say that I have heard many people bash some of the most credable people that have helped me tremedously. Not necessarily on this site mind you.

There are reputable teachers in this business.

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Wholesaler · Westminster, CO · Member since 2014 · 309 posts · 104 votes
12y

There are reputable teachers and I'm not sure that I've seen that statement disputed. BP actually has as many or more teachers than students in my opinion. Not all of the people whom I believe to be teachers are advertising themselves as such though.

Anyway, about the "Gurus". I think there are a few common complaints: people pay money to be taught that they can invest with no money; despite the fact that this statement is highly misleading, if you're at the seminar, you've already spent money. Also, I can always tell when there has been a seminar in my city because the street corners are littered with new bandit signs, CL is cluttered with new ads, and my inbox is full of emails from people trying to sell me properties that they don't have. I think it's great that people are getting motivated to get started but they're being told or they perceive that they're being told to mislead people. I could find probably 20 examples from the past 5 days on BP where new people sign up and their first post says "cash buyers wanted, huge inventory, act fast" or whatever. I reach out to some of these people to learn from them about how they acquired their huge inventory only to find out that they don't have a single property under contract; for many of them this has been their first attempt at advertising or marketing of any kind.

I don't lump all new investors (I am one myself) or all gurus together but I can definitely tell which new investors have just attended a guru seminar.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    12y

    Check out John T. Reed's guru rankings: http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 68 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    There's a lot of passion here, I think that's great, nothing worthwhile was ever done without that, I love it.

    Bill and J Scott Believe it or not I greatly appreciate you getting involved. I didn't spend $50,000 on a single seminar. That' s certainly misleading. I spent that money digging deeper and drilling further into the subjects you mentioned and I very quickly recognized when I began I needed more knowledge and expertise to go on in this business. Did I get the Masters or PHD. obviously not, from these classes. This was ten years ago and that basic information is much more easily accessed for free today. It's my hope that you recognize that not everyone can afford a Harvard education much less gain admission. Besides Colleges are not for everyone. But, you don't need to know or even be aware of all that information to do a simple deal with an SFR. Both of you and I know those are very simple deals in many ways. You don't even need to know what a cap rate is much less know how to calculate it. Many who take these courses never do anything with the information, but I know the same is true with formal education, I hope we can agree on that. Your education and knowledge should be commensurate with the thing you're trying to accomplish. No doubt about that.

    I do believe in common sense. Although it does seem not so common. Perhaps I'm very fortunate for never having or even being able to think like an employee. Giving me the impetus, motivation and confidence to move forward and yes my successes in business. In myriad ways I am very much self taught. That's not to say I did not learn from those with more knowledge and experience. As a matter of fact I learned many things from these classes and yes some of these people had a very high formal educations. To the level of PHD. Did everyone get the same thing out of it as I did, a resounding no.

    I have a zeal for learning that will never end until I'm looking at dirt instead of grass. I genuinely want know and understand. I definitely believe in self education. In my Grandfathers time, self taught men were greatly respected and admired but he was born in 1875. I know that formal education is fallible as well. An interesting conversation I had with my sister in law is very revealing. Her Doctor, a very long time respected and admired man in his field made a brief but profound statement to her. "They taught me things in Medical school that simply are not true" Please, don't get me wrong I'm not disrespecting a formal education. But, 99% of billionaires if not all became billionaires before (if ever they did) receive a graduate degree. Not to say they didn't learn a boat load from their education and peers. No one should jump in the deep end if their feet have never been wet but you can wade in to see if you can tread water.

    Thanks everyone.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Ha, your second paragraph, you missed the point of education and the point of difference in Harvard as to the value of education.

    Third paragraph, rather lost as to any point other than you got something out of your effort to learn. This brings the question, learning from self appointed experts who are not held to any degree of accreditation, how can you ensure what was learned was correct, especially compliant with laws and local customs. You can't, you simply put yourself at the mercy of the instructor that what they teach is ethical and compliant, usually it isn't. Gurus aren't geared that way, they are geared toward sensationalism, marketing, targeting profits while introducing fabricated assumptions and misinformation. A good example of a TV guru, how he bought a property below market value and instantly made $40,000. That's pure BS, but those who lack basic accounting principles, valuation requirements and financial misrepresentations swallow such thinking hook, line and sinker. Most end up thinking they got an education, they still don't know what they don't know, yet they may view themselves as "being in the know".

    I see nothing in your last paragraph that is relevant, medical science isn't real estate, not picking but this is rhetoric. There` are just over 400 billionaires, you're saying only 4 had a degree before making their wealth, I'd say you're way off on that assumption, I'd say at least half are from old money and gained not only a degree but advanced degrees before they ever took control of their wealth. In fact, I'd think of the billionaires who had no formal education are in the minority but are better known for their accomplishment, hard to think that someone with say 100 million wouldn't be getting the vetted, qualified instruction and counsel at a graduate level privately. Certainly you aren't suggesting that wealthy people rely on others with knowledge comparable to RE gurus, that would be laughable.

    Comparisons of the wealthy to commoners is a favorite agenda for gurus, plant the seed that such is not only attainable without further education but common and can be accomplished through their services. We don't need to get into the gurus that have been prosecuted for misrepresentation (like your RDPR author) and fraud claiming they made fortunes in RE.

    Patrick, I've not visited your profile yet, but it will be interesting to see, now or later on, if you have ambitions of getting into or advancing a guru type business. Many have come and gone here, most are gone. Most aren't qualified. Nothing would make me happier than to see some educator's license being required for anyone who provides ant type of RE educational material or instruction, testing required. If I wrote the test I assure you most would be out of business and many wanting to become an instructor might find law school being a better choice. But, we can't always get what we want. :)

    PS. Frankly this ping pong could go on forever, I do have other things to do, no offense, I think my position has been well established here on BP without beating a dead horse. If someone can't convince another on the merits of facts and logic, they repeat rhetorical opinions, no offense intended but your position is failing without evidence. Your opinion is clear, I understand the justification for it, but reality is not supporting your argument. I'd say both points of view are clear. :) .

  • Involved In Real Estate · Lynchburg, VA · Member since 2013 · 246 posts · 75 votes
    12y

    Aside from the "sell the dream" marketing aspect, the biggest issue with gurus is that 99% of the time they sell you on shortcuts and apples to oranges comparisons.

    Those shortcuts are great to complement someone who's already experienced and can implement them well, but amateurish and gimmicky to the beginner.

    So yeah.. you will have learned something valuable, but 99% of the audience will never make money with it because they don't have the foundation (education, financial resources, network etc) to actually implement it properly.

    Personally I would always learn by trial-and-error rather than by dumping $50,000 into a course. That's just my personal take on the topic of gurus.

  • Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    @Patrick Henderson

    For your $50k, who would you recommend as the best.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @David Krulac:
    @Patrick Henderson

    For your $50k, who would you recommend as the best.

    For 50K I'll run your tail through my 2 week basic training course. You'll be getting up at 0500 hours (revelry) and hit the rack 6 hours after taps, at 2300 hours. You'll learn to eat on the run, while valuing a property and using your calculator. I'll give you forward edge of battle area tactics on all strategies, how to intercept the enemy, confront, overcome with superior knowledge and destroy any objection. You'll learn how to bring your war booty to closing and dispose of it or set it up in a fortress strategy for cash flow. You'll learn battle intelligence, behind the lines tactics and counter-intelligence measures in the event there is ever anyone who dares to compete with you. When you graduate, you can march directly into enemy lines with the full confidence of a true RE warrior with the knowledge of being part of the world's elite special operators being superior to any foreign investor.

    I'll buy dinner too! Just PM me, I'll give you wiring instructions and dates available for training. :)

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Henderson:

    But, 99% of billionaires if not all became billionaires before (if ever they did) receive a graduate degree.

    One of the more ridiculous things I've read recently. Start with last year's Forbes 10 richest Americans, and it's quickly apparent that you're not only incorrect, but laughably so.

    The 10 richest people in American have between them 6 bachlor's degrees and 7 advanced/graduate degrees.

    In fact, even if every other billionaire in the country dropped out of high school, just using the Top 10 disproves your 99% number... :)

  • Real Estate Professional · Lees Summit, MO · Member since 2013 · 57 posts · 21 votes
    12y

    Wow! What a fabulous forum this is!! Touching nerves on all sides! One thing I have experienced is, the RE Investing business is so vast, and there are so many niches and strategies, it is overwhelming to anyone who is a novice. Just getting on BP, you can certainly get questions answered, however there are 1000's of opinions of what to do and/or how to do it. And other than legal and ethical concerns, there is no real "right answer: to many of the questions. Every podcast I listen to I get inspired, every deal I do I learn several new things. I have purchased several home study courses and have also purchased "coaching", and this education spending was not wasted, because I DID WHAT THEY TAUGHT.

    I think the main issue with the so-called "gurus" is that they appeal to the Get Rich Quick crowd, and even if the material is valid, most of this crowd wants an easy path, "roll out of bed and make a million dollars" type program. I believe that if the pitch is to make $50,000 a month in your spare time with none of your own money, then BUYER BEWARE!!!! RUN!!!!!!!

    Another point is, every credible interview on BP Podcasts encourages newbies to "find a mentor". I agree. However, if there's no "mentor" in your inner circle that is willing to teach you the ins-and-outs of this business just because they like you, you will have to pay for this mentoring. An earlier post referenced the restaurant business. If you buy a McDonald's, guess what, you pay HUGE BUCKS (unsure of amount) to hold a license to operate a McD's. and its worth it, because you don't have to try to figure it out - the system is already PROVEN. A good "guru" is active in the business, and has a PROVEN system that they are willing to share, but most will not GIVE that knowledge away. A good mentor or coach will allow a newbie to learn by DOING, be there to help them through any rough spots, and get paid out of the profits he/she help the newbie earn.

    I am thankful that I did attend a seminar, bought some courses on topics I wanted to learn, and was fortunate that I didn't waste that money because I took action. And I love BP for its open forums, great topics, and lively personalities!

  • Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Anyone heard of Lloyd and Vicki Irvin? They were new to the game but marketed themselves as the Kings and Queens of real estate. At seminars, Id see people lining up giving them 6k off credit cards for their so called boot camp.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mike Bryant:
    If you buy a McDonald's, guess what, you pay HUGE BUCKS (unsure of amount) to hold a license to operate a McD's. and its worth it, because you don't have to try to figure it out - the system is already PROVEN.

    That's an interesting analogy. Unfortunately, it breaks down with the most important aspect of any business -- capitalization.

    To open a McD's franchise, you need to prove access to at least $750K in non-borrowed funds to ensure that your business is properly capitalized. Why is that? Because McDonalds knows that to be successful, you have to be able to focus on the business, and not have to worry about funding or living expenses.

    When was the last time you heard a big-name RE guru require that his/her students be properly capitalized in order to start training?

    In fact, most of the gurus are just the opposite -- they're perfectly happy if you go into debt in order to pay for the training. And in my opinion, that's because RE educators care more about making a buck than they care about their students being successful.

    And that doesn't even touch on the other part of the analogy -- nearly 100% of McDonalds franchisees are successful with their businesses; what percentage of guru students do you think are successful?

  • Real Estate Professional · Lees Summit, MO · Member since 2013 · 57 posts · 21 votes
    12y

    That's a great point @J Scott - right on. The Franchise model really isn't a good analogy. I want to also re-iterate that I don't condone the "salesy" gurus who are only selling their programs without regard to the student's success rate. If you are wanting to learn: Find someone who is successful in your market, and take them to lunch; network in your local REIA, network and explore topics on BP, and if you decide to buy someone's coaching or apprenticeship program, CHECK OUT REFERENCES FIRST. A good place to do that is here!

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 68 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    Okay. I'll be addressing some but not all of the topics. A little general here but perhaps this will clarify somewhat, on my views. When I approach any educational situation be it traditional, alternative or from an idiot savant. My thought is this. What I'm learning here is incomplete. That is to say, I'm not getting the complete picture here.

    What I am getting is the directions to the points that I want or need to study to arrive at the desired destination. So, Since I caused such perturbation in the force. I will now try to remember after ten years what I took away from that two day seminar.

    Before I go into this, let me preface. Long before I bought my first home to live in. I looked into who knows how many properties. I would have a stacks of paper six inches thick. Buying an existing house or buying land and building to suit, Comps, easements, abatement's, zoning, modernity, crime stats. and so on. I was a laymen to the RE business true, but when I waked into the class I was not completely unarmed either. That's my nature, which may or may not make me exceptional.

    When I walked out. I was sure about market evaluations, price point for purchase, I already had good idea of costs related to repairs but the class helped. While I already had few entities in the real world, the Land Trusts they taught about, I got the idea quickly, of when, where, how and why to use them. Surprisingly, I learned quite a bit about short sales. Some of which I use to this day. How to approach a bank converse with a mitigation clerk, I say clerk because they don't usually have that much to do with the transaction except to tell someone in the Bank you're not a complete idiot. Your experience or opinion may vary on that. Laws were talked about regarding what is a legal transaction if not a Realtor/Broker. Be a principal in the transaction. Some marketing, seller carry backs seller financing and how to present them. Where to find and get financing. Hard money, and how to structure that or borrow from someone you know and what to discuss with them. That's not rocket science.

    That's the majority of what I remember. I'm sure there were more subjects covered or glanced over. But when it was done, I had enough confidence and knowledge to fully complete my first deal and make money.

    I went on to all those things and others on my own and from alternative teachers. More entity structuring, tax strategies, L/O, wrap around, deal structure and so on. While that leaves much to be desired for a true education in your and my view, it was a very effective means to an end.

    Let me be clear here. There may be no right or wrong way to get started in this business. There is something to be said for what it did for me.

    I know as someone said, many want to get rich quick and so, they hear only what they want to hear. They're not in the business any longer most likely.

    Robert

    I don't think it's allowed that I recommend someone to learn from in the field. Talk to Bill. My bet is he will come way down on the price and you will very likely get a better education. Go to the free stuff there is a lot of the basics there. Why not it's free. BP wasn't around then or I would of been on it and found a
    Bill.

    As to the statement of billionaires form what I have read they received those degrees after they became very very wealthy. ie my original statement. Check it out maybe I'm wrong.

    And Bill,

    Rhetorical my paragraph may have been but I have my way of approaching a given situation or subject others have theirs. You were a teacher, I guess your very used to dissecting, analyzing, and criticizing (don't take that the wrong) Pages/Papers.

    When I started this discussion my statement was very simple. I wasn't justifying someones credentials nor did I want to. What I did want, was to not hear blanket bashing in general. If some one wants to bash something or someone, they should be specific about who or whom bashing.

    So I agree Lets go on to more productive thought provoking material. I'm this discussion has run it's course.

    Thanks everyone for participating.

  • Investor · North Richland Hills, TX · Member since 2011 · 789 posts · 403 votes
    12y

    @Bill Gulley didn't realize so many pilots were here. What Jay said made me laugh about the ADF. So true.

    Not to get off topic, but I flew to Lajitas a few times (border of TX and Mexico) and one time ended up off course...not good when you're near the border of Mexico. Funny story, but I'm still writing the book. (BTW- at 5k feet all mountains look the same...)

    As far as guru's, I think you get what you put into your education.

    I've trained people on lease options, and 2 month's later they are taking a course on how to make money with mobile homes.

    It's the shiny object syndrome. On the other hand, I have people that utilize what I teach and crush it. I think @Bill Gulley or @Brian Gibbons who have both taught people, will agree that you have to realize at some point that as the educator you are giving the student the keys to the kingdom. You can't be in control of whether or not the student uses that key, or moves on to find more shiny objects.

    A friend of mine is one of the most highly respected educators in the area, and he told me something at a lunch that made complete sense.

    He said for his training, he asks people..."how much do you want to make?" Do you want to make $100k a year? Great..I charge $10k for my training..Do you want to make $50k a year..great...I charge $5k for my training.." That really made sense to me.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @John Jackson

    Every time I fly into Canada I seem to bust a Canadian reg.

    heard on final approach to Kelowna Tower: 282cd cleared to the threshold:

    Now I was on short final... So I flared and landed Tower comes on and says you were cleared to the Threshold NOT cleared to land.. I replied how can I get to the threshold and not land unless your going to wave me off and give me a go around.. I said I was out of country and he said no worries. I had a retired AA caption right seat with me ( we were going fishing) and he said he had never heard that one either. Never gone to mexico

  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes
    12y

    I recently had a very interesting conversation with someone and it has altered my view on gurus in one aspect.

    Don't get too shocked I still believe it is a total waste of money for 99.9% of all real estate investors out there and for 100% of anyone just starting out.

    So, what altered my perception?

    The conversation I had was with a commercial developer. He said he easily spends $20K each and every year on guru materials, seminars and even the occasional bootcamp. He said he does it knowing full well that most of them will not give him any new knowledge he can put to use. He pays cash for them and sees them as a luxury item. Some people collect cars, he collects guru material apparently.

    But, he did say something interesting. He said over the 15 years he has been doing this he has been able to network, and see materials presented in different ways. He claims he can directly attribute at least $4M in sales over those 15 years to him attending these things.

    I am dubious about it but he believes it. He is not going into debt for the courses and seems sane. So, who am I to argue with that?

    For me, I still don't hold gurus in very high regard because of the people they target. But, I guess for some, whether it is motivation, the ability to connect with others or process information from different sources in different ways they receive value.

    But for 99.9% of those out there buying the guru products, you'd be better off buying lottery tickets with the money instead.

    In fact, I bet if anyone really studied the data we'd learn the state operated lotteries have created more millionaires per year than all of the gurus, coaches and others preying on the hopeful broke combined.

  • Investor · North Richland Hills, TX · Member since 2011 · 789 posts · 403 votes
    12y

    @Jay Hinrichs cleared to the Threshold....that's funny...so you just fly to the threshold and hover.....WHEEEEE!!!!

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @John Jackson:
    A friend of mine is one of the most highly respected educators in the area, and he told me something at a lunch that made complete sense.

    He said for his training, he asks people..."how much do you want to make?" Do you want to make $100k a year? Great..I charge $10k for my training..Do you want to make $50k a year..great...I charge $5k for my training.." That really made sense to me.

    What if someone says, "I'm just here because you're a cool guy and I like to hear you speak...I don't really intend to make any money?" :-)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @John Jackson

    Thats the point who gets cleared to the Threshold.. My other Faux Paux was just crossing the border and I had to climb to get on top. So up to 14,500

    and I switched to Vancouver center to make my VFR flight following call. And Center comes back and informs me that in Canada anything above 12k is IFR.

    So I said then give me a clearance which he did no problem. brought me to 14k but left me there until I was about 10 miles form my destination airport that was at 1k.. And I asked a few times for lower with no Joy... ATC in US is much more helpful.. Also anytime you talk to ATC in Canada you get a bill in the mail. God forbid you had to shoot and approach not sure what they would charge for that. WE got it made in the US as private pilots.. Just like we got it made being able to go out and buy real estate and make money:) so we can afford to be private pilots.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @John Jackson:
    @Bill Gulley didn't realize so many pilots were here. What Jay said made me laugh about the ADF. So true.
    Not to get off topic, but I flew to Lajitas a few times (border of TX and Mexico) and one time ended up off course...not good when you're near the border of Mexico. Funny story, but I'm still writing the book. (BTW- at 5k feet all mountains look the same...)

    As far as guru's, I think you get what you put into your education.

    I've trained people on lease options, and 2 month's later they are taking a course on how to make money with mobile homes.

    It's the shiny object syndrome. On the other hand, I have people that utilize what I teach and crush it. I think @Bill Gulley or @Brian Gibbons who have both taught people, will agree that you have to realize at some point that as the educator you are giving the student the keys to the kingdom. You can't be in control of whether or not the student uses that key, or moves on to find more shiny objects.

    A friend of mine is one of the most highly respected educators in the area, and he told me something at a lunch that made complete sense.

    He said for his training, he asks people..."how much do you want to make?" Do you want to make $100k a year? Great..I charge $10k for my training..Do you want to make $50k a year..great...I charge $5k for my training.." That really made sense to me.

    Hey John,

    I'm not a pilot, wanted to go to USNA and be a F16 pilot, went to USNA Prep as a CPL in the USMC in Newport RI, flunked the Jet flight physical at 6'4", cried like a baby to the flight surgeon, said I could fly other machines, but no at 19 wanted my jets, that's another story.

    Your point about training and charging based on "how much do you want to make" and a percentage of your goal is intriguing. Maybe offering a rebate of training fees on a percentage basis in case you don't hit your goal?

    Shiny object syndrome is a problem as the trainer. To just do the critical tasks as far as marketing, presenting, following up with sellers, networking, etc, and IGNORE THE RESET OF THE REI INFO is not easy.

    You and I are in the Entrepreneur Training business. REI is about calculated risk management and taking massive action.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Well, since the OP closed the topic, LOL, cleared to the threshold ? Guess you were cleared for a low approach run.

    On my final exam in front of the scope in GCA, a Marine came on asking to land, I ran through it, requested type A/C, he says Marine 470 tow truck, okay, whatever, started him , on course on glidepath, everything was fine, 3 miles out on the next sweep of the scope he was still 3 miles out, on course, next sweep he was almost 4 miles out. I realized he was a CH47 chopper, he had stayed on course and hovered, turned around and was headed back up. This was intended to fluster me and mess up on the test.....I came back and said, 470, request pilot's intentions, over? I aced my exam!

    We'll have to go to off topic for our aviation stories!

    //////////////////// RE STUFF BELOW :) ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    I suspect there are those that have not really learned the how's and why's of RE to the extent that they can be creative while remaining compliant and ethical where they may not really be able to think very far out of the box and need to hear strategies they might adopt. I just never had such issues. I suppose our life experiences make a few more creative than others or in the way people look at things.

    I'll tie this back to aviation. Keeping track of 12 or 15 aircraft in your head can't be done by most. Approach control may not operate with radar, all you have is a slanted rack with holders that hold strips of paper that are divided into blank spaces. Each space represents some aspect of control, the aircraft's type, call sign, souls on board, altitude, direction, destination being recorded and checking off certain blocks after information is given. So, you have about 12 or so aircraft flying around in your space and you work the bottom plane on the rack in first, the one next up is second on the rack. May have caught the saying in the movies "rack'em and stack'em". Now, all this is done by regulations as well as good judgment. Looking at the type aircraft you know the cruising speed, stall and max speeds, you can slow them or speed them up. Speed measured in miles per minute. You have to keep them separated by regulation, horizontally and vertically. You have some entering the air space and some are leaving, you need to turn some as soon as you can to their highway in the sky and get them up higher as jet fuel is expensive, low and slow. Point is, it's like directing swarming flies keeping them apart, headed to where they need to be ay different altitudes and do so in a room that may not have any windows, Approach/Departure Control may not be in a tower where you can see a plane 10 miles out. You're directing all this from memory and by using the notes on strips along with regulatory flight rules. If you screw up, you can kill people. The pressure cracks some early on, eventually probably half or more have issues. I guess I was lucky or just wired for it as I rarely felt much concern or sweated and enjoyed being busy. I knew the rules very well, knew the procedures, knew my area and took control of the situation with confidence, pilots need to hear confidence in your voice at all times, you don't get an "ahh s7it" moment!

    I took this same approach in my RE and lending. Know the rules, know the procedures, know your area and take control of the situation! I may speed one deal up, I might change the altitude or direction, I might allow a faster deal to over take another, I may apply rules that allow a desired out come or keep a transaction in my pattern until rules can be met. Getting creative is not an issue so long as you understand the rules and the consequences of what you do. Add marketing and sales and you got it made. At least no one is going to die from my actions!

    In fact, before I had a computer and management software, I devised the same basic approach of using strips on a board in my office to keep track of loan status, closings, application processing and brokerage aspects. I could glance up from my desk while on the phone and speak to anyone and give them the status of the progress in detail. I'll brag a bit, some were amazed that I could give details quickly, as if that loan were opened on my desk when I answered the call. Realtors who came into my office then saw how I did it, secret was out. LOL

    I understand that not everyone can think in abstract terms while staying within given bounds. But they don't have a chance if they don't understand the rules and why things are done the way they are.

    Gurus fail to give the rules, the who, what, where, when and why of RE, they simply begin past all that selling an idea or concept without much thought to other aspects.

    Now, you have, maybe, a better understanding of where I'm coming from on education, while you can really screw up following bad information you won't kill anyone. There is no reason to overpay for information just because someone makes you think what the have is so valuable since there is nothing new nor are there any secrets in RE. :)

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 68 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    I'll put your Condescending statements aside for the moment Bill.

    First, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to good alternative teachers out there. "NONE"

    Yes, I've done a million dollar deal, whoopy for you. And yes We split the land up and sell it off? Yes! Was it as complex as your deal probably not but it went down just the same.

    I've used most if the ideas you speak about and leaned them through those teachers and network of people I met those events.

    I personally know someone and sat with them during some of the negotiations that did a $50,000,000 land deal just outside of Frisco, at the time, north of Dallas. Did it go to closing? Yes! And, he made a boat load.

    Did he have any formal education in RE? No!

    Did his main teacher hold his hand, give good advice and guidance through the entire process? Yes!

    Did his teacher know, understand and do deals in that local area? Yes

    Was it the most creative RE investing at it finest, maybe not.

    Have you ever done a fifty million dollar deal. no wait, I don't care.

    Your pompous, arrogant, misinformed, self righteous and callous attitude Is not only in many ways boring and tiresome but also not constructive in my opinion.

    To me it sounds like you got your ego involved here.

    I tried to be polite to you throughout this entire discussion.

    If this has been too harsh, so be it.

    Thank you all for posting, including you Bill, when you were reasonable. fair and practical. Howeve, formal education is great but it's not the end all be all you portray it to be.

    Ps. I won't be posting on this discussion again. And, before you Bill ,come up with a reason for me Bill, I'll just say it. You have a lot of great education, knowledge and experience to share here. However, your passive aggressive attitude, not to mention the negative connotations you have brought to this discussion, are inappropriate.

    That's how I see it.

    Have a great day

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Patrick Henderson

    Its more fun to talk about flying !.

    Real estate is the one great business that ANYONE can get into.. no matter if they are super educated or just gone through High school.. For me I just barely made it through High School.. But I got a basic education and really that's all you need in this business. You will learn the advanced technique by being in the bizz learning from others and YES Even Guru's... Its all good.

    I hated school so I basically dropped out and got my real estate license at 18 back in 1975.. And never looked back.. My first year I made 60k selling RE and that was when a great job was 10 dollars an hour.

    I have not done any 50 million dollar deals yet but a few whoppers along the way.

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