Constructive Criticism Will Help You as a New Investor More Than Blind Faith
Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votesConstructive Criticism Will Help You as a New Investor More Than Blind Faith
Most Popular Reply
Travis TimmonsPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votesWhat is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
53 Replies
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
- 1yRemington LymanBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
You made a post asking for people's thoughts on the constructive criticism you provide. Now you are responding by saying that their comments are preposterous, hypersensitive, and Polyanna. I'm not quite sure what the last term means, but I'm confused about what you hoped to achieve with this post. I thought I was providing the feedback you requested.
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
You made a post asking for people's thoughts on the constructive criticism you provide. Now you are responding by saying that their comments are preposterous, hypersensitive, and Polyanna. I'm not quite sure what the last term means, but I'm confused about what you hoped to achieve with this post. I thought I was providing the feedback you requested.
The post wasn't about me, but I have heard and considered that criticism plenty, so it hasn't gone unheard. It's not realistic to think that everyone will get along. Could I go lighter sometimes? Sure. I am planning on it. But in regards to your agents, you told me in the video that you know you go right up to the line on purpose and if you could you would just spam the crap out of everyone. You don't of course, but you want them to be right on the line and I think that's bad form and actually not helpful for their business or yours. We disagree. All good. I still have been tagging you in on posts all the time for Columbus.
The post was about constructive criticism vs. blind faith and you took your post as a chance to tag the CEO of the company back into the forum to talk about me. If that works for you, it works for me fine, but seems odd.
- 1yRemington LymanBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
You made a post asking for people's thoughts on the constructive criticism you provide. Now you are responding by saying that their comments are preposterous, hypersensitive, and Polyanna. I'm not quite sure what the last term means, but I'm confused about what you hoped to achieve with this post. I thought I was providing the feedback you requested.
The post wasn't about me, but I have heard and considered that criticism plenty, so it hasn't gone unheard. It's not realistic to think that everyone will get along. Could I go lighter sometimes? Sure. I am planning on it. But in regards to your agents, you told me in the video that you know you go right up to the line on purpose and if you could you would just spam the crap out of everyone. You don't of course, but you want them to be right on the line and I think that's bad form and actually not helpful for their business or yours. We disagree. All good. I still have been tagging you in on posts all the time for Columbus.
The post was about constructive criticism vs. blind faith and you took your post as a chance to tag the CEO of the company back into the forum to talk about me. If that works for you, it works for me fine, but seems odd.
@Scott Trench talked about your post and asked for other people's thoughts. I apologize if I misinterpreted what he was discussing. I do not have the best reading comprehension. I only scored a 19 on the ACTs
- 1yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
thanks for weighing in. I think you and I were discussing in another thread the balance among 1. being welcoming (which I try to be, I usually start my posts to new forum guest with 'welcome!'); 2. offering constructive criticism; and 3. cheerleading.
I think @Jonathan Greene provides tremendously valuable constructive criticism that is a necessary counterweight to some of the cheerleading. We're really focused on the tone of posts now.
I'll also just give kudos to @Travis Timmons while I'm here, I feel like Travis does a great job of being welcoming / affirming while also offering constructive criticism when a plan is just not realistic.
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
You made a post asking for people's thoughts on the constructive criticism you provide. Now you are responding by saying that their comments are preposterous, hypersensitive, and Polyanna. I'm not quite sure what the last term means, but I'm confused about what you hoped to achieve with this post. I thought I was providing the feedback you requested.
The post wasn't about me, but I have heard and considered that criticism plenty, so it hasn't gone unheard. It's not realistic to think that everyone will get along. Could I go lighter sometimes? Sure. I am planning on it. But in regards to your agents, you told me in the video that you know you go right up to the line on purpose and if you could you would just spam the crap out of everyone. You don't of course, but you want them to be right on the line and I think that's bad form and actually not helpful for their business or yours. We disagree. All good. I still have been tagging you in on posts all the time for Columbus.
The post was about constructive criticism vs. blind faith and you took your post as a chance to tag the CEO of the company back into the forum to talk about me. If that works for you, it works for me fine, but seems odd.
@Scott Trench talked about your post and asked for other people's thoughts. I apologize if I misinterpreted what he was discussing. I do not have the best reading comprehension. I only scored a 19 on the ACTs
Let's just agree that from now on, all forum posts are just about my tone in the forums. :)
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
thanks for weighing in. I think you and I were discussing in another thread the balance among 1. being welcoming (which I try to be, I usually start my posts to new forum guest with 'welcome!'); 2. offering constructive criticism; and 3. cheerleading.
I think @Jonathan Greene provides tremendously valuable constructive criticism that is a necessary counterweight to some of the cheerleading. We're really focused on the tone of posts now.
I'll also just give kudos to @Travis Timmons while I'm here, I feel like Travis does a great job of being welcoming / affirming while also offering constructive criticism when a plan is just not realistic.
I think there are many ways to be welcoming and to add value. Many of us who have been around for a long time kind of play off each other in forums to help the flow of the conversation. As much as tone has become an issue, I say everything the way I do for a reason. Thank you for acknowledging the counterweight. I have never been called warm and fuzzy, and I personally hate warm and fuzzy, so I am acting as I would like to be done for me. Straightforward, even if it comes with an edge.
When things seem too easy, like on TikTok, new people make horrendous decisions on what to buy, who to hire, and who to partner with. They come in doe-eyed and that's a good thing, but you can't keep them doe-eyed or they will buy swamp land in the Everglades.
- 1yRemington LymanBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@Jonathan Greene At risk of getting sucked in here, I did go ahead and click on @Scott Meech's post here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/925/topics/1217313-dete...
I often agree with what you have to say, but in this case, I have to disagree.
I feel that the BP forums are literally for the kind of question Scott asked. Scott is new to MTR, and did the homework of setting up his profile, and even buying a pro membership, and researching a property to ask for opinions about in response.
Think about how many people come on and post about how they have $300K+ and no plan! I worry that these posts risk them being targeted by bad actors in the space.
Scott is nowhere close to "bad" in the context of what a lot of newer members post to the community.
I can't think of a better use for the forums than in allowing members like Scott to test ideas like that MTR and get feedback from the community. I am sure that Scott is aware that he should do lots of research before buying an MTR, but if a part of that research can't be posting a potential deal to the forums and getting community input/guidance on how to think about it, what is the BP forum even for?
Your responses are usually great, but in this case it came across to me like you were telling him to do more homework and to come back later when he had a better question.
We don't want Scott to go away! We want him to come back, and to engage with the community, learn how to ask the right questions, buy investment property that makes him rich, and for him to have such an awesome experience and make so much money in real estate over the next few years that he stays on BiggerPockets for 10-20 more years answering questions for other newbies, learning from the example of @miguel del mazo - who provided an incredible and useful response.
We want more people like Scott to post to the forum.
I think that there's a spin to your post that needs to incorporate the idea of being "welcoming" and "encouraging" of every member to pursue the long-term benefits of real estate responsibly, even as we of course do not want to encourage irresponsible real estate investing decisions.
Curious to hear other's thoughts here.
I agree with you, @Scott Trench. I believe that @Jonathan Greene has a lot of valuable experience to share with both newcomers and seasoned investors, but he can sometimes come across as off-putting. He has provided me with helpful constructive criticism on how I can better coach my agents in their forum posts. However, I think he could improve the way he expresses his opinions publicly on the forums regarding these agents. While the perspectives he and others share are valid, they can sometimes turn into trash-talking banter, which detracts from the core values of BiggerPockets.
This is becoming a little Polyanna. There will never be an Internet forum where we all sing together and hold hands. If people are spending this much time talking about my verbal delivery in response to questions, I think they are missing the point. My advice is based on 40 years of walking houses and doing real estate. It's rock solid. The only reason I do it is to help people. I shouldn't have to change my personality or delivery (except for some rare occurrences where I do look back and cringe because it is a little over the line) to please people or make them feel better.
Criticizing tone in an online forum is preposterous. Like I told Scott, go back and read any post that you think is off. If I said that to you in person with a smile on my face, no one would balk at all. This hypersensitivity isn't going to help anyone become a better investor.
You made a post asking for people's thoughts on the constructive criticism you provide. Now you are responding by saying that their comments are preposterous, hypersensitive, and Polyanna. I'm not quite sure what the last term means, but I'm confused about what you hoped to achieve with this post. I thought I was providing the feedback you requested.
The post wasn't about me, but I have heard and considered that criticism plenty, so it hasn't gone unheard. It's not realistic to think that everyone will get along. Could I go lighter sometimes? Sure. I am planning on it. But in regards to your agents, you told me in the video that you know you go right up to the line on purpose and if you could you would just spam the crap out of everyone. You don't of course, but you want them to be right on the line and I think that's bad form and actually not helpful for their business or yours. We disagree. All good. I still have been tagging you in on posts all the time for Columbus.
The post was about constructive criticism vs. blind faith and you took your post as a chance to tag the CEO of the company back into the forum to talk about me. If that works for you, it works for me fine, but seems odd.
@Scott Trench talked about your post and asked for other people's thoughts. I apologize if I misinterpreted what he was discussing. I do not have the best reading comprehension. I only scored a 19 on the ACTs
Let's just agree that from now on, all forum posts are just about my tone in the forums. :)
Slay
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Quote from @Travis Timmons:
What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Travis Timmons:
What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
You are just looking for trouble for no reason. This did not spill over from that forum at all. You must not have read the other posts in here. And nothing I wrote in that screenshot is anything but accurate. It's not rude. It's not mean. It's good advice that the person can take or not take.
You were just doing your usual. Can't we all just get along in the other forum, and then you hop over here to interject yourself again? You are the problem.
Now you are going to tell me how to give my own advice? This is getting to a level where I think you need to talk to somebody. You are telling me to tell everyone they can do everything, but they can't.
You are so hypocritical. Now how about we work together you say when you opted into a forum that had nothing to do with you. The only thing your post is missing is the usual call to action.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Travis Timmons:
What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
You are just looking for trouble for no reason. This did not spill over from that forum at all. You must not have read the other posts in here. And nothing I wrote in that screenshot is anything but accurate. It's not rude. It's not mean. It's good advice that the person can take or not take.
You were just doing your usual. Can't we all just get along in the other forum, and then you hop over here to interject yourself again? You are the problem.
Now you are going to tell me how to give my own advice? This is getting to a level where I think you need to talk to somebody. You are telling me to tell everyone they can do everything, but they can't.
You are so hypocritical. Now how about we work together you say when you opted into a forum that had nothing to do with you. The only thing your post is missing is the usual call to action.
Oh boy, here we go.
I just came here because you were manipulating and gaslighting a narrative and I revealed what really happened because it is quite obvious I am not the only one that called you out on your holier-than-thou narrative.
Don't worry, I am out. Have fun.
Some friendly advice, though… when you don't agree with people, it’s OK because we’re not supposed to be a hand-holding, kumbaya-singing forum, and differences in opinions are fine.
But when someone doesn't agree with you, you become so defensive, aggressive and offensive.
Not lecturing you… just wanted to bring that to your attention.
Something to work on. :/
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Travis Timmons:
What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
You are just looking for trouble for no reason. This did not spill over from that forum at all. You must not have read the other posts in here. And nothing I wrote in that screenshot is anything but accurate. It's not rude. It's not mean. It's good advice that the person can take or not take.
You were just doing your usual. Can't we all just get along in the other forum, and then you hop over here to interject yourself again? You are the problem.
Now you are going to tell me how to give my own advice? This is getting to a level where I think you need to talk to somebody. You are telling me to tell everyone they can do everything, but they can't.
You are so hypocritical. Now how about we work together you say when you opted into a forum that had nothing to do with you. The only thing your post is missing is the usual call to action.
Oh boy, here we go.
I just came here because you were manipulating and gaslighting a narrative and I revealed what really happened because it is quite obvious I am not the only one that called you out on your holier-than-thou narrative.
Don't worry, I am out. Have fun.
Some friendly advice, though… when you don't agree with people, it’s OK because we’re not supposed to be a hand-holding, kumbaya-singing forum, and differences in opinions are fine.
But when someone doesn't agree with you, you become so defensive, aggressive and offensive.
Not lecturing you… just wanted to bring that to your attention.
Something to work on. :/
No, bro. You aren't even in the right forum. They have nothing to do with each other and no one is manipulating and gaslighting. You like to use keywords to try to have more of an impact but your methods are very see-through. You literally have been saying the same responses for years.
You came here because you like to stoke the fires and then you do the kumbaya right after. It's pretty comical at this point. You are following me around BiggerPockets, adding screenshots of my responses in other forums, and then attempting to peace out again. Maybe I should get a restraining order. It's getting kind of creepy, Jerry.
Not lecturing you, just wanted to bring that to your attention. Something to work on.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @Travis Timmons:
What is the point of all these holier than thou posts that you are creating? Nobody cares what you know until they know that you care. You're being off putting and helping no one.
It reminds me of a story when I used to work at a church. At a new member class, a random lady said that she had the gift of prophecy. I indulged while trying to make my way out of that conversation. I asked her, "How do you typically use this gift?"
Her answer - "Mostly for correcting."
How are you using your real estate acumen on BP forums?...Mostly for correcting that is just an echo chamber of old, rich guys talking about how terrible new investors are. Either do the blocking and tackling of one on one help here or stop with the "I'm so smart, you should be better" nonsense.
Come on Mr. Greene. There is no need for this. That is not an accurate picture you are painting here.All this is just drama overspill from a different post on a different forum:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/1216921-advic...
A college student asked for advice in the wholesaling forum, about trying to wholesale in NYC.
His "Constructive Criticism" was:
This is not "constructive criticism", this is projecting your own limitations onto others. Not because you can't do it does it mean no one can or even should attempt it. This is not useful, nor is it helpful. And none of this is or should be about you. It is about helping and guiding others.
It’s a negative, limiting stance, completely opposed to the spirit of real estate investing.
And for the record, no one here is trying to sell anything to this student—not me, not anyone. Just because some of us offer services doesn't mean we’re all just here to push a product.
Instead of saying: "you can't do it under any circumstance", tell the kid how to do it, or what to watch out for. Teach, don't crush. (You should read Rich Dad Poor Dad)Now, how about we let this go, and let's work together to help others succeed, rather than these kinds of posts!
The NY wholesaler criticism seems fair to me. What's the success rate of someone in that situation trying to wholesale from out of state? .0000001%? It's a sucky business model. Just go to the casino at that point bro.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
MF's are too soft these days bro. You know who almost never succeeds in running their own business? Soft MF's.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
MF's are too soft these days bro. You know who almost never succeeds in running their own business? Soft MF's.
While you’re projecting this tough, macho image, consider the advice and attitude you're giving to a young, aspiring college-student investor who genuinely needs guidance rather than someone inflating their own ego at their expense.
I wish I had started when I was that young. The point isn’t whether he should quit because the odds are tough or because the majority might fail—it's about guiding and supporting those who are eager to learn, not discouraging them.
Offering help isn’t a sign of weakness. I struggle to understand how grown men like you don’t see that; rather than coming across as “cool” or “tough,” this attitude makes you seem more like a beer-goggling college fraternity than a forum for learning and growth. Not surprising really judging by your avatar.
So, "bro," while it’s friggin adorable you jumped to his rescue bolstering each other's egos, and licking each other's wounds just understand this:
I created a saying:
Not because 2 clowns agree with each other does it mean that what they agree on is correct.
But I also know it is pointless to keep this going. Guys, good luck with the "I am a fortune cookie" posts, to boost your following, likes, and popularity!
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
MF's are too soft these days bro. You know who almost never succeeds in running their own business? Soft MF's.
While you’re projecting this tough, macho image, consider the advice and attitude you're giving to a young, aspiring college-student investor who genuinely needs guidance rather than someone inflating their own ego at their expense.
I wish I had started when I was that young. The point isn’t whether he should quit because the odds are tough or because the majority might fail—it's about guiding and supporting those who are eager to learn, not discouraging them.
Offering help isn’t a sign of weakness. I struggle to understand how grown men like you don’t see that; rather than coming across as “cool” or “tough,” this attitude makes you seem more like a beer-goggling college fraternity than a forum for learning and growth. Not surprising really judging by your avatar.
So, "bro," while it’s friggin adorable you jumped to his rescue bolstering each other's egos, and licking each other's wounds just understand this:
I created a saying:
Not because 2 clowns agree with each other does it mean that what they agree on is correct.
But I also know it is pointless to keep this going. Guys, good luck with the "I am a fortune cookie" posts, to boost your following, likes, and popularity!
lol bro, I get it. It's much more profitable for you grasp at straws and pretend the business model doesn't suck so you can sell your SEO program.
Get that money bro.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
@Nathan Gesner
I had to get two buckets of popcorn for this one.
7e investments53 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes1y
It's 5:08AM. Chris tagged me in on page two, and it looks like a lot of chest thumping.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Nathan Gesner
I had to get two buckets of popcorn for this one.
I would get three because wherever I go on here, Jerry goes, so it's better to have a third bucket.
- Rental Property Investor · Bow, NH · Member since 2016 · 216 posts · 185 votes1y
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
This is WHAT I THINK.....I have used this site before owning any real estate, personal or investment. I think that the willingness of those who have significant experience in the industry to provide input and feed back to those of us who don't is incredible. I have personally never been offended by feedback I have gotten but I have, 100 times out of 100, always googled my question first. I don't look for someone to give me simple answers to simple questions, usually it is tactical to a specific circumstance. I think this is part of the disconnect here. There are redundant questions asked multiple times a day "I have XXX dollars, What do I do with it?" or "which markets should I invest in". Like use the search bar.....If you don't take the time to find the answer for your self than you deserve whatever blunt, critical feedback you get.
That being said. I do find that some of the "Pros", not singling out Jonathan or anyone else for that matter, do come off as arrogant and condescending in some of their reply's. It truly is off putting for someone new to the industry. I come from working with engineers, so I am used to it but I can absolutely see how others are turned off 100%. If someone does the work to generate a meaningful question, I wish there was more respect given to those folks. Even if their question is bat $#it crazy give them the respect they deserve for researching a question and formulating an idea to the group. Shutter their dreams with dignity. We owe it to each other to hold people accountable but do it with dignity.
Some of the people I really respect on this forum don't give specific feedback to those off the wall questions. They ask open ended questions that spur thoughts for the OP which drive them to the right answer. That is a true mentor / coach.
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan Thomas:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
I get involved in A LOT of side discussions (when a thread goes off the rails and away from the original post) on BiggerPockets. Whenever it happens, it happens because an investor either doesn't like the delivery of my message or doesn't like that I didn't give them an answer to a very vague question. I ask many questions back to help them, but they see this as an affront because it's not what they asked for.
The greatest coaches in the world will tell you to arrive prepared, do your research, and ask good questions to get the best answers. I can't imagine someone arguing with this (but I'm sure there will be someone). Just because you are new to investing, new to the site, or new to a meetup doesn't mean you shouldn't show up prepared. The more prepared you are, the better responses you will get. The less prepared you are, the more you will get pitched. You become a mark.
Constructive criticism is your friend. No one who has grown a business from small to big will tell you that they got there by surrounding themselves with only people who tell them what they want to hear and deliver it in a warm handbasket. Different deliveries, different opinions, different questions, different mindsets - this is how you learn.
In the real estate investing world (the real one, not the forums), many people who will be the nicest to you will sell you something shortly thereafter. When you only want someone to sell you a dream, everyone will sell you that dream. When someone criticizes your plan but has nothing to sell you, how could they not be acting in your best interests? Why would someone with years of experience hop onto an online forum just to mess with you? What would they have to gain from that? Think bigger.
Blind faith will get you nowhere in real estate investing. Everyone telling you that your plan is excellent will not help you. You want the people who find the cracks because that is how you get better. That is how you learn. Wherever you are in your investing journey, stop taking everything personally that doesn't fit what you want to hear. You will get places much quicker by having constructive dialogues with those who challenge you, not those who appease you.
What do you think?
This is WHAT I THINK.....I have used this site before owning any real estate, personal or investment. I think that the willingness of those who have significant experience in the industry to provide input and feed back to those of us who don't is incredible. I have personally never been offended by feedback I have gotten but I have, 100 times out of 100, always googled my question first. I don't look for someone to give me simple answers to simple questions, usually it is tactical to a specific circumstance. I think this is part of the disconnect here. There are redundant questions asked multiple times a day "I have XXX dollars, What do I do with it?" or "which markets should I invest in". Like use the search bar.....If you don't take the time to find the answer for your self than you deserve whatever blunt, critical feedback you get.
That being said. I do find that some of the "Pros", not singling out Jonathan or anyone else for that matter, do come off as arrogant and condescending in some of their reply's. It truly is off putting for someone new to the industry. I come from working with engineers, so I am used to it but I can absolutely see how others are turned off 100%. If someone does the work to generate a meaningful question, I wish there was more respect given to those folks. Even if their question is bat $#it crazy give them the respect they deserve for researching a question and formulating an idea to the group. Shutter their dreams with dignity. We owe it to each other to hold people accountable but do it with dignity.
Some of the people I really respect on this forum don't give specific feedback to those off the wall questions. They ask open ended questions that spur thoughts for the OP which drive them to the right answer. That is a true mentor / coach.
That's a good bit of information there and helpful from your view as being newer to the site. I definitely come off as condescending to some, sometimes that is warranted and sometimes it is not. Through this forum I have found that people are projecting tone on words in a forum which is not reality at all.
I agree that there is a groundswell of unresearched questions which is a personal pet peeve of mine and what led to this post. I usually respond with targeted questions for folks that would help them ask a better question. Only half appreciate the coaching.
I would also add that coaching comes in different forms. Some coaches are cheerleaders. Some are realists. The goal of coaching and client is to match what someone wants with what someone offers. But this is an open forum so I don't change how I coach or talk or act because I might offend someone. I don't know who is fragile, having a bad day, just asked a bad question, so I have taken note to be a little more forgiving going forward, but also still coach and act the way that I am and they way that I would want to be coached or talked to.
Lastly, I think A LOT of people need a cold dose of reality. One of the problems with an open forum is there are very inexperienced people giving bad advice all over the place. Then when I comment on their bad advice, they get mad, and the OP gets mad because it's not what they want. But that doesn't make it wrong. If someone with one property is giving landlord advice and they have a property manager and have owned for six months, the advice might not be that sound.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
If somebody can't take blunt feedback in a forum, they ain't gonna last in real estate. I just hope they stick around long enough to buy some SEO courses from my dude Jerryll.
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
If somebody can't take blunt feedback in a forum, they ain't gonna last in real estate. I just hope they stick around long enough to buy some SEO courses from my dude Jerryll.
This has always been my point. In the real world, when you are sourcing deals and building relationships to get properties, you don't get to say, "Hey, I don't like the tone in the text you sent me." No one cares. The real world is where everyone can not do everything, especially without capital, a skillset, or training.
I think what most people would call blunt now is just an answer without a whole beating around the bush to make someone feel better. It's more efficient. I value efficiency in my life so if I am going to spend my time freedom answering questions on the internet to help people, I am going to answer them in an efficient manner and my own voice. I am not into warm-ups or back rubs (or SEO calls-to-action in every message).
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @James Wise:
If somebody can't take blunt feedback in a forum, they ain't gonna last in real estate. I just hope they stick around long enough to buy some SEO courses from my dude Jerryll.
This has always been my point. In the real world, when you are sourcing deals and building relationships to get properties, you don't get to say, "Hey, I don't like the tone in the text you sent me." No one cares. The real world is where everyone can not do everything, especially without capital, a skillset, or training.
I think what most people would call blunt now is just an answer without a whole beating around the bush to make someone feel better. It's more efficient. I value efficiency in my life so if I am going to spend my time freedom answering questions on the internet to help people, I am going to answer them in an efficient manner and my own voice. I am not into warm-ups or back rubs (or SEO calls-to-action in every message).
Especially a cut throat biz like real estate. It ain't all sunshine and rainbows out there kiddos. Hell when you pull back the curtain most people would be shocked to realize that all those prim and proper super nice 50 year old lady Realtors that seem so nice; those ladies are some of the most cut throat sharks in the game.
- Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Jonathan Greene:
Quote from @James Wise:
If somebody can't take blunt feedback in a forum, they ain't gonna last in real estate. I just hope they stick around long enough to buy some SEO courses from my dude Jerryll.
This has always been my point. In the real world, when you are sourcing deals and building relationships to get properties, you don't get to say, "Hey, I don't like the tone in the text you sent me." No one cares. The real world is where everyone can not do everything, especially without capital, a skillset, or training.
I think what most people would call blunt now is just an answer without a whole beating around the bush to make someone feel better. It's more efficient. I value efficiency in my life so if I am going to spend my time freedom answering questions on the internet to help people, I am going to answer them in an efficient manner and my own voice. I am not into warm-ups or back rubs (or SEO calls-to-action in every message).
Especially a cut throat biz like real estate. It ain't all sunshine and rainbows out there kiddos. Hell when you pull back the curtain most people would be shocked to realize that all those prim and proper super nice 50 year old lady Realtors that seem so nice; those ladies are some of the most cut throat sharks in the game.
Do not play with Gertrude. She has been slinging homes since 1974. :)
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