Quote from @Fabio Cattolico:
Hey,
My wife and I are currently living in a small rent stabilized apartment in Williamsburg Brooklyn and it's an amazing deal (around 2000 for a 1 bedroom).
I don't want to rent forever but I'm fine doing it for a little longer if necessary. We'd like to stay in proximity to NYC for a couple more years and we've been playing with the thought of house hacking in Jersey (preferably multi-family, or single family and rent out rooms short term or long term).
The other options would be staying in the apartment and investing out of state where we can afford a 20% down payment, or waiting until we move away from the HCOL area.
Curious to hear any recommendations. With Jersey's super high property taxes and high property values the numbers don't look great, especially considering the high interest rates. I love the idea of house hacking if the numbers would pan out but it seems hard to even break even once we decide to not live there anymore. I know this is extremely broad and open but I'm curious what everybody's thoughts are.
Thanks in advance!
Very few listings, currently on the MLS, will cashflow - at the asking price!
You'd have to go back 5+ years to be able to buy at asking price and cashflow on a Class A or B SFR.
Many newbies don't seem to understand that real investors rarely pay market price. They put a LOT of work into building their networks to find potential deals, look at a LOT of properties, make a bunch lof low-ball offers - all to buy a single property!
Investing wisely does require patience:)
You state two challenges, both related to paying asking prices:
1) "the numbers don't look great"
2) "seems hard to even break even"
What price is required for you to cashflow?
That's how experienced investors decide what to offer!
Also keep in mind, that short-term househacks, where you eventually move out, aren't meant to hide negative cashflow. You want to use your occupancy time to:
- Improve the property (maintain to the neighborhood!)
- Save up for the next acquisition
Really like what @Lydia Winn posted.
Here's some other copy & paste info to think about:
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You’re ALWAYS better off investing locally, where it’s easier to:
- Learn the market
- Network to find deals
- Network to find contractors
- Be more hands-on
- Driveby property to keep tabs on it
- Network to find a decent Property Management Company (PMC)
If you invest OOS, your biggest challenge won't be finding properties to meet your goals on paper, it’ll be successfully outsourcing all of the above.
The biggest mistake we see OOS investors making in our market, over and over again, is not fully understanding Neighborhood/Property/Tenant Classes and how they impact your probability of success!
They all run their ROI numbers assuming Class A results – when buying Class B, C & even D rentals.
Then they’re shocked when their performance expectations aren't met😞
If you choose to invest OOS, and have little to no landlord experience, we highly recommend targeting Class B Neighborhoods/Properties/Tenants. If you target Class C, you better be prepared emotionally & financially for plenty of challenges.
You can find Class B properties in the Midwest to BRRRR, but it will take more digging and YOU will need to understand how to analyze & identify them - because a lot of agents, wholesalers, PMCs, etc. will try to sell you Class C or D misrepresented as Class B:
- Many of them don't know/care what Class the properties are, so they're incompetent.
- Others know exactly what they are doing, so should be labeled as crooks!
EITHER WAY YOU LOSE!
Here's some copy & paste advice you might find useful:
Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?
Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.
The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.
Both Property Class and Tenant Class will affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies you should target and be willing to deal with a property.
The Property Class will also impact the maintenance & renovations you do to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood”.
Why is that important?
Well, if you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will actually rent it?
Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?
So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met, and it may even be a financial disaster.
We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:
- Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
- Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
- Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”
Key metrics for each Property Class:
Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.
Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.
Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.
Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.
Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?
Check out this chart:
|
FICO Score
|
Pct of Population
|
Default Probability
|
|
800 or more
|
13.00%
|
1.00%
|
|
750-799
|
27.00%
|
1.00%
|
|
700-749
|
18.00%
|
4.40%
|
|
650-699
|
15.00%
|
8.90%
|
|
600-649
|
12.00%
|
15.80%
|
|
550-599
|
8.00%
|
22.50%
|
|
500-549
|
5.00%
|
28.40%
|
|
Less than 499
|
2.00%
|
41.00%
|
Source: Fair Isaac Company
Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.
Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying.
Horror Stories from those that did NOT Understand What they were Buying:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1137397-baltimore-a-path-to-never-ending-pain
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/432/topics/1231840-sell-at-a-loss-or-rent-at-a-loss
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/840134-memphis-turnkey-tenant-turnover-costs
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/963/topics/1195280-experience-of-oos-investing-in-cleveland-after-15-years
