Quote from @Omi Stambler:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Stuart Udis:
@Omi Stambler In response to your question: When you're evaluating whether someone is actually a successful investor versus primarily an educator, what are the biggest signs you look for?
I would begin by asking why someone who claims to have an exceptional real estate portfolio and an extensive track record has the time, motivation, or financial incentive to become an educator in the first place.
My experience has been that the answer is often because the track record or portfolio is far less impressive than the marketing suggests. When I see the person who claims to own thousands of apartment units teaching a syndication course for a few thousand dollars, it simply doesn't add up. The person who's completed hundreds of fix and flips or BRRRRR's selling an educational course for a few thousand dollars, it simply does not add up. Their time is simply too valuable to spend selling courses, coaching programs, or masterminds. The only viable explanation is they are being paid to teach their students how to source deals and capital for themselves. That's become particularly prevalent in the education syndication space and has been copied repeatedly.
That's not to say every educator lacks credibility. There are certainly accomplished investors who enjoy teaching or mentoring or find the correct balance but that's rare and probably not the people popping up on your social media feeds. The difference is that education is a byproduct of their success rather than the business itself.
@Omi Stambler @Stuart Udis: Has a point, to a degree.
Some trainers are teachers at heart. You would have to believe all teachers across America
have a nefarious intent though, to go with that other assertion. Why teach High School? Why teach Elementary school? and for heaven's sake why teach Middle School? Teachers teach because that's who they are. Are there scammers in real estate teaching, oh yeah. But, some school teachers become teachers because they want to retire early in life, and want 3 months vacation during the summer. Not because they love teaching.
With real estate there is an actual opportunity cost. A couple of years ago I offered broadly on Bigger Pockets, to train anybody that wanted the training on creative finance, for free. I wound up with 56 students. Fine. The first part was to teach them the truths about creative finance. How to locate, evaluate, deal with Title Issues, Escrow, payments, etc. The second part was action. Cold calling.
They dropped like flies at the cold calling. As long as it was intellectual, I could hold their attention. Once it got practical, no way.
One excuse after another, they just didn't do the work. It was like they collectively said "what, you're not going to hand me leads?" It was clear that wasn’t the deal and I responded with "No, I'm going to teach you how to find your own leads."
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. It boiled down from 56 to three guys pretty quickly.
One of the three couldn't grasp that buying off the MLS using entirely borrowed money, even for closing, wasn't a good idea & didn't work.
One guy found a condo he bought and another simply "disappeared" after a while. No idea what happened.
So, getting a "free" education in real estate investing attracts the people who have no money and want to get rich by not working.
If you don't charge for what you know, people think it's worth what they're paying for it.
Nothing.
The people I train pay a sum they make back on the first deal. I have plenty of proof that works.
There is no commitment to the process when no payment is involved.
Thanks for sharing that story. I think it’s a good example of the difference between knowing what to do and actually doing the work.
What I’m trying to understand from all the different perspectives here is where the line is between a valuable coaching program and a course that’s mostly repackaging information that’s already available for free.
A lot of people here are saying to avoid courses and focus on BP, books, podcasts, and networking, while your point seems to be that the real value is accountability, guidance, and shortening the learning curve.
In your opinion, what should someone look for to know a paid program is actually worth the investment?
Bigger Pockets keeps a history of what people have posted so you can see what the inclinations of people are by reading their past posts. That's located at their profile under "Recent Forum Activity"
The first, contrary to most ignoring it, is "does the coach tell you the consequences of the decisions you make". You need to know where each major decision will lead you.
There is a popular "guru" on youtube that has a book for sale in the Bigger Pockets library, The "guru" no longer posts here, that advocates borrowing money from "gater lenders" to pay full price for a house on the MLS. Borrowing more money to pay the real estate agents and then borrowing even more money to pay for closing. What kind of nonsense is that?
In the beginning, how are you even going to know what numbers matter? Are they teaching about asset preservation?, taxes?, generational wealth?, lawsuit avoidance?, the impacts of your decisions?
Real estate investing isn't just about buying properties, it's also about market swings, tenants, being profitable, and how to hang onto properties for the long haul or until it makes sense to sell. The "Great Reset" caused a lot of investors to leave investing in real estate, broke.
If one has to borrow money to pay for agents & closing, they're certainly not ready to own real estate. There are expenses in real estate and few people know how to buy, so that they still have reserves for repairs, insurance increases, vacancies, tax increases and so on. People have posted that they were deleted from the site when they bring that up. Don't use all of your money to purchase.
Another error this guru has is using "Subject To" to buy properties and teaching how to "hide" the transaction from the lender. That has all kinds of associated problems. The guru had to borrow money to pay off 10 houses of "Subject To" in Jan - March of 2025 alone or he would get sued big time. Yet he teaches people who have no money to do the same. Pure foolishness.
The National Association or Realtors states that 80% of real estate agents don't sell or buy a house. That means they don't even know the closing routine.
The real estate agents that actually help clients are so focused on making their business work, I'm told they don't provide training for new agents. It's a tough racket.
Most trainers lack either the skills or methods to train new people themselves. They're busy trying to recruit. Some involve paid "closers" because they lack closing skills. You can't buy a house when you lack the very thing it requires, closing skills.
Some trainers put people to work looking for opportunities for the trainer. There is a guy that charges $5,000 for a "training" weekend that simply organizes people to go door knocking. When they find someone interested, he shows up, closes the deal and takes the profit. Now the trainees are wiser. Not richer, but they now know "how it's done" and are "lighter" by $5,000 with a missed opportunity to make money and learn in the process.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
What to look for is someone who actually does what he speaks. If your interest is multifamily, find someone who actually buys multifamily, if your interest is creative finance, find the guy legally and wisely buying using creative finance but buys it below market and additionally doesn't get the Due on Sale called. You need a buffer when you buy creatively, because if the DOS is called, there needs to be enough margin to sell quickly in the event of a problem. You don't want to have to bring money into closing.
You want a "one on one" teacher that gives you his personal phone number, guarantees you will profitably buy a property or your money back, who answers your questions, especially during a transaction. Who is available when you need him.
Some of the guys have everything on video and say "it's all there" and that is like saying "the answer you need is in the library, start digging". I can only imagine how many opportunities are lost because of lack of direction when needed. There are guys on Bigger Pockets who say "you can get all your answers on Bigger Pockets" Well, I read a lot and there are some pretty bad answers here. How is an inexperienced new guy going to read conflicting opinions and still know which way to go?
The guy you work with has to be honest. It's not all crusin' through. it requires a gameplan, consistency and knowing how to deal with all of the components involved in the process. It's a long list.
But the guys who already have a background going into real estate, or who have been at it for a long time and who are well funded, have lost touch and don't understand the hesitations of a new investor and put them at too much needless risk.
They miss the fact that the average guy wants to Not Lose Money, Not Get In Over His Head and Not Get Sued. You're safer with a bootstrapper who has made it, because that guy doesn't forget what it took to get to where you want to be.
