What to do if your wife is not 100% on board?
Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes
What to do if your wife is not 100% on board?
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Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11yMy husband was beyond not on board with the idea when we got married. His family had less than positive experience owning houses. 5 years of marriage 3 years after buying our first house we own 5 houses :) with another 3 offers out. Our combined goal is 10 houses in 18 months and we are on tract. So you can see who won lol
In all seriousness marriage isn't about winning it is about supporting each other, at least my marriage. Therefore my husband and I agree to the "baby step" plans. We would take one step at a time. As long as we were successful I could keep going. The agreement was that this was my "baby" as he is active duty and didn't have the time.
3 years later, I don't know who's more excited me or him with out results. The more successful we have gotten the more willing he is to "assist". He no longer play angry birds when we look at houses, but I also have lower expectation. On the other hand he goes out of his way to make sure his documents are signed even if it puts him out. Checks, balance and honestly success has been the key to change his mind.
Our goal is early retirement through cash-flow. While my husband loves flying F-18 (who wouldn't), he is starting to get that this our exit plan. That if we are successful he won't have do anything he doesn't love when this is no longer fun.
My peace of advise, is baby steps. Take it one deal at a time. Figure out what she is worried about, create long term goals and solve the worries. My husband was worried about financial liability (baby-steps and success cured that), and his time requirement (I have proven that I can take care of it).
Good Luck! If I can help let me know.
59 Replies
- Investor · Chelsea, MI · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 138 votes11y
@Peter Smith , I think if you involve her (to the extent she wants) and take it slow and show results, she'll come around. At least I hope so, as that's sort of how my wife is at this point.
- Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Then you're golden! :) Sorry had to bust on you for forgetting to put not in the title. Nothing works like success. Once you show her you can make money off one rental, more will be easier. Plus I always recommend only doing one or two to see if you are cut out for the downsides of landlording, such as late night toilet calls and harassing tenants for rent.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
@Cal C. Thanks didn't notice that. That is a good point from both you and @Brett Russell to let her see results. Did your wives come around eventually?
- Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
My husband was beyond not on board with the idea when we got married. His family had less than positive experience owning houses. 5 years of marriage 3 years after buying our first house we own 5 houses :) with another 3 offers out. Our combined goal is 10 houses in 18 months and we are on tract. So you can see who won lol
In all seriousness marriage isn't about winning it is about supporting each other, at least my marriage. Therefore my husband and I agree to the "baby step" plans. We would take one step at a time. As long as we were successful I could keep going. The agreement was that this was my "baby" as he is active duty and didn't have the time.
3 years later, I don't know who's more excited me or him with out results. The more successful we have gotten the more willing he is to "assist". He no longer play angry birds when we look at houses, but I also have lower expectation. On the other hand he goes out of his way to make sure his documents are signed even if it puts him out. Checks, balance and honestly success has been the key to change his mind.
Our goal is early retirement through cash-flow. While my husband loves flying F-18 (who wouldn't), he is starting to get that this our exit plan. That if we are successful he won't have do anything he doesn't love when this is no longer fun.
My peace of advise, is baby steps. Take it one deal at a time. Figure out what she is worried about, create long term goals and solve the worries. My husband was worried about financial liability (baby-steps and success cured that), and his time requirement (I have proven that I can take care of it).
Good Luck! If I can help let me know.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
It sounds like you can start with one at least with both of you in agreement, so it's a step in the right direction. Just make sure you're clear from the start that you do want to step it up once you both are comfortable that it's working well, and keep communication channels open. I will caution that it will be much easier with both of you on board for each phase. When we first started, there was so much tension due to differing opinions on how we should proceed -- especially with the weekend/vacation repair calls -- that we sold all but one investment property and didn't buy another for years. Eventually, with the one we kept, we worked out how to make us both happy with future investment, and we've been slowly building a nice portfolio.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
@Elizabeth Colegrove Wow! Fantastic. First off thank you for your husband's service. I ought to show my wife this and I have been afraid if she knew how big my plans were she would want me to stop, but I will talk to her tonight and focus on the first step. Thanks.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
Oh wow @Lynn McGeein Really? How did you both find middle ground?
- Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
You both don't have to be totally 100% in love with the same projects. I would tell you wife you long term "goal". Ie to retire at X to do Y. The thing I forgot to mention was my husbands dream has always been to buy a large "pirate ship" and sail the world. There was no way we could do this with out significant investments. When I showed him how our "investments" could fund his dreams he was willing to "try" and suggested baby-steps. That I could go but the first misstep, we sit down and have a "serious" discussion on stopping.
I create a website all about our methods and niches. We have create a strategy that allows us to pursue are dreams today and tomorrow. While we certainly have sacrificed it is not as "scary" as your wife thinks it is.
Just remember she needs to see the benefit this will have on her. For my husband it was the fact that it provided freedom. Remember after your discussion tonight she is not going to "fall to her knees in praise". If you are lucky she will "grudgingly" agree to try it. So keep your expectations low. Remember be excited with her attempts .
There was alot of "bribing" (waffle house, video games, working on his boat with him, etc) and finding ways he would like an activity before he started to like investing of his own merits. It has take almost 3 years for him to get here. His "Eureka" point was 3 months ago, so seriously it took awhile. So it is a long process but honestly she will get there. He is beyond proud of my investments and is my biggest Cheerleader when I am having a moment. Just remember it goes both ways!
- Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 2 votes11y
good for you for wanting to be sure you're both comfortable! I agree with others. Nothing reassures like success. I think you'll end up somewhere in the middle in timing your deals...but closer to your timeline if u have the success you're planning for
- 11yDana WhickerPro MemberInvestor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
Make some money at it, show her that you're making money at it and how, and she'll come around.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
It wasn't so much about finding middle ground as him learning we didn't have to do it all ourselves. He can fix almost anything, so never wanted to hire people, which becomes very frustrating when you have several properties and are already busy at full-time jobs and raising children. You never know what issues will create problems until you actually do it, and any maintenance or repair call or turnover just became huge hassles instead of easy fixes as I just wanted to call a repair guy but he thought it was wasteful spending, then got upset when we're over there working on them instead of relaxing. When we agreed to keep one of them, he also agreed to let me call repairmen for it, and over the years learned that it was still a good investment even if you pay for things you could otherwise do yourself. Now, we actually have property management for our new ones so we can work on them, do initial rehab and turnovers when we want to but otherwise, we're covered.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
Wow this is great guys I appreciate it so much.
- 11yEric FernwoodBusiness MemberRealtor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 996 posts · 1k+ votes
Hello @Peter Smith ,
One of the most frequent reasons people do not want to invest in real estate vs. other types of investments (stocks, bonds, etc.) is that they do not understand the difference between real estate revenue streams and accumulate and draw-down, which is how other investment types work. I pasted in an article below which I recently wrote that compares real estate to other types of investments. Your feedback would be appreciated.
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Why Real Estate?
Real estate investment (not flipping) is the common mans easiest path to financial freedom. By financial freedom I mean a revenue stream which you (and perhaps your children) will not out live, is inflation friendly and tax advantaged.
Accumulate and Draw-Down vs. Revenue Stream
I am frequently asked by new investors, "Why real estate is better than dividend stocks, CDs, annuities, etc. for achieving financial freedom?" I will explain the difference using an (overly simplified) example where financial freedom is defined as a long term revenue stream of $5,000/Mo.
Accumulate and Draw-Down
Achieving financial freedom through traditional investments consists of accumulating a large quantity of funds and then drawing-down these funds over a fixed period of time. The amount you need to accumulate is totally dependent on how long you need the funds. If you plan on living another 30 years (I will assume zero inflation and zero working capital growth which I will explain later) the math is simple:
30 Years x $5,000/Month x 12 Months/Year = $1,800,000
So, if you accumulate $1,800,000 you can draw down $5,000/Mo. for 30 years with the understanding that at the end you will have zero funds. "What about capital appreciation?" Appreciation and inflation need to be considered together.
Official inflation during 2014 is about 1.7% (source). However, remember that the “official” inflation numbers do not include energy or food. Personally, I use energy and eat so the inflation I experience at the gas station and the grocery store is much higher than the “official” number. Depending on whose numbers you use, actual inflation is currently between 5% and 10% per year(source 1, source 2, source 3 , source 4). For simplicity, let's assume that from now on inflation will be 5%. What this means is that you will need 5% more money each year just to have the same buying power as the previous year. Based on 5%, the amount you need to accumulate before draw-down increases from $1,800,000 to $2,000,000. Is 5% a reasonable guess as to future actual inflation? Not necessarily. During the 1980s the “official” inflation was over 14% (source). At 14% inflation the amount you need to accumulate before draw-down would be $6,500,000!
"But what about asset growth and assets that can handle inflation?" There is a tradeoff between the level of risk and gain. Conservative investments like CDs are currently paying about 1% thus with even the official inflation you are losing about 0.7%/yr in buying power. "What about a portfolio of stocks that can handle inflation?" While it is certainly possible to maintain such a portfolio even the big mutual funds have a hard time achieving it. But, suppose your investments could track inflation there are still two problems: 1) Every month that you draw-down funds you are reducing your working capital and thus potential gains. 2) In order to maintain the right portfolio mix you are going to have to frequently buy and sell stocks. Every time you sell stocks all profits are subject to capital gains tax which further decreases your working capital.
In summary, I do not believe that the average person can achieve a life-long revenue stream using the traditional accumulate and draw-down approach because:
• It is unlikely that the common man can accumulate the necessary millions.
• Accumulation and draw-down is a finite proposition; the income is only for a fixed number of years and what happens if you outlive your investments?
• Even moderate inflation can easily wipe out any fixed amount of accumulated funds over time.Revenue Streams
According to The College Investor over 90% of the worlds millionaires created their wealth by investing in real estate. Why did they choose real estate? Revenue streams! I will start my explanation by estimating the amount of money necessary to create a life-long revenue stream of $5,000/Mo. Suppose you could purchase a property for $100,000 and rent it for $900/Mo. (This is very realistic in a lot of markets throughout the US and in some markets the returns can be higher. ) The monthly PITI (PITI stands for monthly principle, Interest, taxes and insurance) would be about $550/Mo (20% down, 30 year, 4.5%, 1% tax, 400/Yr insurance). (Warning, over simplification coming!) If I assume the property is always rented, the numbers work out to be: $900/Mo rent - $550/Mo PITI which results in a revenue stream of $350 per month. If I obtained 15 such properties I will have a revenue stream of $5,250/Mo.which never ends. And, the total capital I needed to establish such a revenue stream is 15x$20,000 = $300,000 compared to $1,800,000 in the accumulate and draw-down approach!
Here are some additional advantages of investment real estate:
• Cumulative: In the above example, each revenue stream will cost you $20,000. The positive cash flow from each revenue stream helps you buy additional revenue streams. Note that there are many financing alternatives to standard 20% down investor loans which include loans from smaller banks, seller financing and even government programs for first time home buyers, etc.
• Inflation: If you are using the accumulate and draw-down method, inflation is your enemy. With real estate, inflation is your friend. This is true because rents tend to track inflation but debt service is constant. Further, when inflation occurs interest rates increase thereby limiting people’s ability to purchase homes increasing demand for rental properties.
• Tax savings: With the accumulate and draw-down approach the IRS will love you (not good) because everything is visible and easy to tax. With real estate there are lots of expense deductions (Like coming to Las Vegas to check on your properties!). Another advantage of real estate is depreciation. (source). The IRS mandates that you depreciate the typical investment property over 27.5 years. (This is a phantom deduction because in the long run most real estate prices increase.) For our example property, deprecation will be about $2,900/year/property which offsets rental income. Many people have a positive cash flow from their real estate but still have tax losses.
• Leverage: While debt is bad leverage is good. Using common investor loans you can (in the example above) gain the income of a $100,000 property with only $20,000. There is no such leverage with other financial instruments.
• 1031 Exchange: Remember that every time you sell a stock you pay capital gains on profits. With investment real estate IRS rule 1031 ([source](http://www.irs.gov/uac/Like-Kind-Exchanges-Under-IRC-Code-Section-1031)) enables you to sell (“exchange”) one type of property for another and, if handled correctly, is not a taxable event. So, if the best investment today is single family homes in Anchorage and the situation changes such that condo medical offices in Houston are now a better deal, you can sell the single family homes and buy the medical condos with no tax due if you adhere to the 1031 rules.
• Forgiving: As long as you buy investment real estate in a good area, all but the worst mistakes will be corrected over time through appreciation, inflation and rent increases. (We strongly recommend only investing in areas with growing population and low crime.)
• Requires little time: Once you buy good investment real estate it requires little personal time if you use a good property manager. If you choose to manage your own properties, be sure to watch for a forthcoming article titled, “How to Fail in Real Estate”.Summary
The accumulate and draw-down method has serious problems including outliving your investments, taxes and inflation just to name a few. You never outlive real estate revenue streams and they are tax advantaged and inflation friendly. To me, there is no comparison when it comes to financial freedom, real estate is the clear winner.
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Peter, I hope this helps. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions.
Best Wishes,
FERNWOOD Team, KW VIP Realty520 Reviews - Real Estate Investor · Richmond, TX · Member since 2014 · 48 posts · 22 votes11y
So glad I saw this post. My wife was lost, did care, could not understand anything that had to do with REI. ZERO interest none what so ever. Been trying to get her on board for years. So lets fast forward to recent times. I have a great job that pay extremly well. But I hate it, I am gone for half of everything. Half my marriage, my kids lifes, bdays, holidays, deaths in the family. You name I have missed it. I got tired of missing, got tired of her being by herself. So i made the change. My brother/partner and I got a property and rented it out. We get $500 in passive income off of it and we have about 40 to 50k in equity. This got her juice flowing a little bit. The more I focused on REI the more she got interested in it. She is now reading books to get the basics down. She also plans to start making calls to cash buyers and tenant buyers.
Some told me this. This is my situtation. She has everything to lose and you (I) have everything to gain. So lets break this down.
Her lose
- Her security of a constant pay check. ( she is a stay at home mother who works her tail off to maintain the house hold)
- Buying things when she wants
- Lifestyle
- Marriage adjustments.
- Daily adjustments
- and list can go on but you get my point.
My gain.
- Home everynight
- Spend more time with the family
- Watch my kids grow up
- Not having to travel to work and be gone for 28 days in the middle of the ocean.
- Less dangerous job.
I will be walking away from my 250k year job in June of 2015 to follow my dream. So we are planning and preparing for it. People say I am crazy. They might be right but I would be more crazy to not follow my dream.
I guess what I am trying to say is this. Follow your Dream, do not let anyone say no, and it can not be done. Because it can. Good Luck to you and yours.
- Homeowner · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 854 posts · 511 votes11y
My wife does not share my passion for real estate. She doesn't want us to get into the landlord business. She gave me her blessing to look into a potential flip opportunity, but the seller has been unresponsive. Even if he had responded, getting her on board to put ink on the paper would have been a challenge.
She is open to purchasing a vacation condo where we go for a week or two every summer. Finding a beach property that will cash flow is near impossible where I am looking.
My plan is to continue to save aggressively while continuing to educate myself. Unless an amazing deal comes my way in the next couple months, I don't plan to push the idea again until after the holidays. That is always a VERY busy time of year for my family, so it won't go over well if I add stress to it
- Real Estate Agent · Westminster, CO · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 16 votes11y
At one time - I was that wife. The idea of paying multiple mortgages scared me, the term "landlady" repulsed me and risks seemed overwhelming. Ironically, the first rental property we bought was for my Mom, so that situation forced me to rethink things. (Have Mom live with us, or rent from us? That's a no-brainer.)
What I would suggest is when you make your first few deals, make sure you factor in property management, even if you plan to do it yourself. Yes, managing your properties does save money, but it does get old for some people - especially if you get a nightmare tenant. Which would you rather have - the money from self-managing the property and an angry wife because your weekends are consumed with managing a bad tenant; or hiring a property manager and spending your time looking for more properties with your wife, because now she understands cash-flow?
Like any relationship - take it slow. Once you both have experienced the process, your goals may change.
- Contractor · Valparaiso , IN · Member since 2013 · 604 posts · 327 votes11y
My first thought was
"A" get a new wife or "B" get a new plan
But seriously, the article posted by @Eric Fernwood should help a lot. I would be very upfront about your plans with her. And keep her involved so she understands the details. Once she starts seeing the revenue stream, an understands the benefits of REI I would expect her to come around.
That fact that she's a bit hesitant right now will force you to be a bit more conservative. This is a good thing, and its going to put pressure on your to bring her good deals if you want to grow your portfolio. In essence your going to have stronger investments as a result.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
@Greg F. Wow that sounds like it worked out though and I hope my wife is able to buy in the way yours has.
- South Lake Tahoe, CA · Member since 2014 · 111 posts · 37 votes11y
@Peter Smith I think sometimes when we are passionate about an idea or goal we want to share it with the people who matter to us. This can be overwhelming for them because they haven't been in our head and thinking about it for a while. You have probably been reading and learning, she hasn't. Don't spring it all on her at once. Take it slow.
She has agreed to purchase the first one. She is already on board. If you buy a property and have a property manager she will know that ok we can do this.
I would make your plan but not share all the details a first, let her get used to the idea of owning properties and seeing the benefits from the principal pay down and additional cash flow.
My husband wasn't as passionate about real estate in the beginning but he knew I did the research, could answer his questions, or would find out if I didn't know the answer. The last two properties he trusted me to put an offer in without having seen them first. We talk about our criteria. I keep him on the same page but know that he doesn't want all the details. Once he knew I won't steer us wrong, that our family stability and security is important to me and I have reasons behind decisions and numbers to back it up, he felt much more confident. Over the years he has determined real estate investing can be a great way to work towards an early retirement.
- Homeowner · New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 10 votes11y
@Anna Shaver Thank you great advice.
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
What lifestyle are you and your wife looking for? What is your wife's passion and how supportive of it are you? What is your passion and how supportive of it is she? Are one or both of you working full-time... in a job or career? Are you looking for a change? Are you looking to do real estate investment part-time or full-time? What type of real estate investing most suits you? How will choosing that path impact your current and future family life? As a couple, have you talked about your mission, vision and values?
She is in agreement with you to start with one rental house. Start there. There is nothing wrong with starting with a small portfolio. See if it suits your lifestyle. My husband and I love our careers and don't intend to quit our jobs. We buy one property every five years. Sometimes it is a SFR and sometimes a small plex. The early years were the hardest. At times quite a strain on our marriage. If we didn't focus first on the foundation of our marriage we would never have made it to our current point of having a successful 19 year marriage, vibrant careers, and 15 residential rental units.
Two books I recommend... "Your Best Year Yet" by Jinny Ditzler (for dream building and goal setting) and "Landlording" by Leigh Robinson (for do-it-yourself landlording practical advice). People often fear what they know little about. Introduce her to Bigger Pockets and ask her to read the success stories. Listen to the podcasts together and talk about what you hear. You can have a goal of 10 houses or 100... but all it takes is 1 to get started! All the best to you both!
- Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes11y
All great advice above- I think the key for me was compromise and addressing the issues my spouse had. For my wife it was fear of losing things-so we started slow. We have done a lot of things that weren't the best way or the way that I would like to do it, however, we do things in a way that is good for everyone, whether it is acquiring properties slowly, missing on a few places, or selecting places that might not be as profitable- but make the wife happy. Another thing that works well is to describe your end goals in REI and relate it to the ways that benefit her.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
@Peter Smith This is the exact situation I was in in 2008. Go at a pace that is comfortable to your wife and, as everyone else has said, show her (and yourself!) the results. My wife is now to the point where like, "Oh, you bought another house?" Ha, ha!
Show her that you got a great deal. Show her that it is cash flowing well. Show her that it doesn't take up too much of your time. Then show her your next step, how you'd like to expand. This may take a year or two, but your marriage is worth it.
Also, consider other strategies that she might be more comfortable with. Maybe you could wholesale. Maybe you could do a flip (no long term commitment, but this may be too scary for her). Maybe you could buy notes.
- 11yJon HuberPro MemberRental Property Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 713 votes
@Peter Smith Start watching HGTV together. Start asking her opinion on what properties... and if you were to get that one, which paints and color schemes to go with, interior design, blinds vs curtains, carpet vs hardwood, etc. You get the idea. Maybe she'd be more on board if she felt more involved. However, this is purely based off of what little I know.
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