Should I purchase education from Rich Dad or Fortune Builders?
Business Owner/Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 0 votes
Should I purchase education from Rich Dad or Fortune Builders?
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Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10yIf your friend '...has spent the last year within the Rich Dad consulting program' ... don't you already have the answer? I assume your friend is now a multi-millionaire after a year of high dollar training... if not, why not?
78 Replies
- Investor · Valley Stream, NY · Member since 2008 · 71 posts · 18 votes10y
@David Dachtera My point was the HE had no experience or education in REI yet was able to do deal because he had the drive to do it.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Ariel Cohen:
@David Dachtera My point was the HE had no experience or education in REI yet was able to do deal because he had the drive to do it.
...yet he also had to "learn by doing", which is usually the best learning in terms of quality, but also the highest risk because the danger of ending up being fined or unknowingly committing a tort - or even a felony offense! - is the highest.
Drive helps, but alone, is not enough.
Education helps (A LOT!!!), but alone is not enough.
Education + Drive + action = highest probability of success.
If you're looking for guarantees, I have bad news for you: there are none to be bought or sold. The only guarantee you have is found between your own two ears.
- Business Owner/Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 0 votes10y
If I "unfollow" this topic will it turn the notifications off? Replies just recently started flowing in.
Hope this thread helps a lot of people from even considering gurus. In 1 week after posting this I've met 8 full time investors willing to mentor me. I'm attending my first "meetup" tomorrow at 6:30pm.
Thanks for all the feedback.
- Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
No, you shouldn't.
- Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes10y
I'm a big fan of gurus. Otherwise I would have never known that I could be completely broke and living in someone's garage one day, and become a multi-millionaire within six months through buying and selling property with no money and no credit.
#sarcasm
- Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Kyle Sowell:
@Brent Coombs, Only for the past 4 years.
Well, at least you admitted the obvious, and we paid you the right price!...
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
@Kyle Sowell, are you marketing your motivating skills to the gurus?...
Kyle's response was basically, "for the last 4 years".
I'm the one who calls today's advertising, the "art of deception".
My motivational skills were acquired in the Army.
Teaching experience is from the Army and teaching college business courses.
Interesting thread, what shows through is the wide spectrum of wisdom, common sense and motivations.
I'll whistle at @Ben Leybovich, he use to teach. @Brian Gibbons was also a teacher at one time.
What's the difference between learning from a teacher and learning from a technician? Night and day, teachers teach professions, technicians instruct in skills. Professionals understand why things are done, technicians often don't, it's just the way we do things. Professionals try to stay current with changing laws, professional ethics, approaches to business, students using technicians just hope that what they are learning is correct, a leap of faith in meeting legal requirements. More often than not students fall from that leap.
Look to any profession, you have a mixture of learning experiences. You begin with teachers that teach the core subjects, after your formal learning is over you move into an internship period of some type, this is where mentors who have had the formal education step in. Doesn't really matter what the industry is, doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, police officers, firemen, teachers, they all receive formal training and are mentored by peers, well, more like superiors.
Not saying anyone has to go to college, but to be or even conduct yourself as a professional you will have formal teachings by educationally qualified teachers. Any licensee in any profession must receive formal training from a qualified instructor by education and experience and then students are tested.
I hated tests in high school, later on in college my views changed. Testing builds confidence in yourself, there is a sense of accomplishment, from that you begin to trust your judgment knowing how and why you do something. You gain wisdom and maturity in what you do. Knowing that you need to make a living or a successful investment, which is really your motivation, the reluctance in taking action goes away, you understand the subject and you have proven that to yourself as you tested yourself or were tested.
Why do you think the military requires testing at the firing range? To make everyone an expert shot? No, It is to build confidence and professional self-esteem giving each service member the knowledge that if they are ever in a combat situation that can perform.
Can you perform? Do you really have what it takes to be successful? Can you challenge yourself, are you motivated or do you need a sales pitch telling you that you'll be making great money with some product?
You do have to act, that takes confidence. I would think that those with creditors calling, who can't afford to eat steaks and lobster would be hungry enough to be motivated to get out of the poorhouse. Or, those who want to ensure they don't lose their hard earned money would have the motivation to actually learn what they are doing.
Believe it or not, many people don't have common sense, there also the naive who believe some step by step program will make them rich because the guru told them that. There are those who lack maturity and wisdom who believe some unqualified pitch man can actually teach or give current information. There are also those that confuse excitement with motivation, if you're excited, wait a couple days, that will wear off, if you are truly motivated you'll be driven to act for your own well being.
How you are influenced to act and succeed is not going to come from one style or method of learning or teaching. There are two sides, formal learning and an internship of hands on experience. It does not come over night.
We just had our first graduate from a basic course, she went through it in 3 days, part time and attained over 80%, the only experience she had was buying a home with her husband and she is moving on to strategies understanding how and why much better, basically her words, not mine. Her education level? High school. She is motivated and I believe she will be successful.
So, do you really have what it takes or are you just looking for a quick buck, trying to follow some step by step program and probably being a menace to the public ?
The simple minded have simple lives. :)
Disclosure: I teach business and RE at GREA.
- Real Estate Agent · Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 408 posts · 90 votes10y
Originally posted by @Denny Kisner:
Hello All,
My friend and I are just starting out in the business. He has spent the last year within the Rich Dad consulting program.
Would you recommend Fortune Builders over Rich Dad or vise versa?
Would you recommend another form of education?
BOOKS AND MENTORS! Both of those programs are enormous scams. Real estate is the type of thing you can learn strictly through books and asking questions. Those programs are all fluff, I have met some of the higher ups they would be successful at anything they do it has nothing to do with the program
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
I was at a Seminar this weekend as a guest... I spoke to a few of the attendee's one of them an airline pilot and part time broker and flipper told me the reason he paid for the event was for the networking mainly.. And well he met me and if he can do what he says he can.... then I flat guarantee what ever he paid to be there will be worth it many times over.
I find those that contact me offering to buy lunch or whatever is nice.. although not much really happens at those things.. can't really get much info in an hour for lunch etc. And other than one fellow who got his pilots license and I will take him up in my plane and I think we will do some flying together.. that's the extent of my interaction with the I will buy you lunch group of bp folks....
So I think its whatever motivates you to take action.. if you need to spend 25k to do it.. then by all means.. if you have no money and just want free info that's what BP is for and all other manner of free info.. If you have to borrow money to educate your self do that carefully..
this event I went to had some really good modules on the importance of wholesalers and how to work with them effectively... I learned something there... also they encouraged REIA meetings... and many other venues including sites like BP to gain knowledge.
I have been to many of the GURU events over the years and this one was the best I had attended so far..
End of the day though it all comes down to numbers .. 1 out of 10 who want to be in this business as a profession be it wholesaler RE broker or flipper will make it more than a year . does not matter if they paid for training or got it for free.. Same with those that get RE sales licenses one out of ten about make it a lifelong career.. but if you are one of the one's that makes it can be rewarding. but its a lot of work a lot of rejection ( which burns out most folks quickly)...
Although I understand that many are just looking to learn how to invest and have no interest in quitting their day jobs and they should not... For those I think BP is a great resource and other on line stuff.. But for those that want a career at RE then think it takes much more in-depth and in the trench's and surround yourself with like minded folks in real time situations ... hard to do this at home behind a computer.
- Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes10y
My opinion the whole Rich Dad thing is that once you've got its message about seeing things in terms of assets and liabilities and switching to an investor mindset, it really doesn't have anything else of value to offer. Maybe that's a heresy around these parts, but I think you can get a lot more for your money and time elsewhere.
- Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
@Kyle Sowell, are you marketing your motivating skills to the gurus?...
Kyle's response was basically, "for the last 4 years"...
Bill, I hope you realized I was teasing, NOT encouraging him (hinting that his guru-speak would not trick any sensible person here on BP into paying HIM for "investing in self" education, that can be gotten just as easily for free)!
But later, I did more or less thank him for reminding us how canned these guru sermons are! Thank you for YOUR genuinely motivating post, Bill. Cheers...
- Realtor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 693 posts · 357 votes10y
No, experience is the best teacher. Get your education from the BP podcasts and forums, and then buy your first rental.
- Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 18 votes10y
I wouldn't agree with anyone saying that either of the programs are a scam, but they are probably unnecessary for the majority of investors. I have attended the 3 day events for both companies and they both have something valuable to offer and they both have students of their programs that are very successful. I think the results just differ from person to person based on their current situation and where they are with real estate investing. Some people may need to make the financial sacrifice as a push or a motivation to accomplish their RE goals. A major point that Napoleon Hill touched on in "Think and Grow Rich" was that people tend to only value that which has a price. Neither of these programs are scams because they tell you exactly what you are going to get when you pay for their programs. The main complaint that I see about the programs are not that they did not deliver what they said they would, but that the program "didn't work", and that to me is something that can only be determined by the individual person and the work they put into the program.
My advice would be to truly know what you are willing to do and how many hours you are willing to put in. Both programs advise you to be able to give at least 15-20 hours a week MINIMUM to their program, so if you are unable to do that I would definitely not go forward with them.
- Massage Therapist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 613 posts · 84 votes10y
@Denny Kisner thank you for starting this thread.
I believe there are many ways to learn. I tend to look at things in two ways. Do I have more time or money to invest.
At this moment I chose to spend my extra time investing into education. My extra money I'm investing in property.
I spend 30 minutes or more each day engaged in Bigger Pockets and other real estate literature.
I believe you have made a decision as to what to do. I'm pleased to hear the 8 full-time investors have agreed to mentor you.
The answer to your question in regards to the notification is yes. If you tap following it should be replaced with follow, which will stop you from following, which stops the notifications.
I have spent money on classes through the years; however I have learned more networking on Bigger Pockets, since I joined August 11, 2015. Questions that are asked are usually answered by a least one member with a solution.
@Ariel Cohen well stated, great choice of partners. Your knowledge and his drive is a successful combination.
I concur with @Rick H. thanks for the book reference.
Enjoy as you prosper.....
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
@Kyle Sowell, are you marketing your motivating skills to the gurus?...
Kyle's response was basically, "for the last 4 years"...
Bill, I hope you realized I was teasing, NOT encouraging him (hinting that his guru-speak would not trick any sensible person here on BP into paying HIM for "investing in self" education, that can be gotten just as easily for free)!
But later, I did more or less thank him for reminding us how canned these guru sermons are! Thank you for YOUR genuinely motivating post, Bill. Cheers...
Thanks,
But I'm not so sure there aren't a bunch that would take that stuff hook, line and sinker. You can see the "just do it" crowd, go blindly where others have failed types, reminds me of Clint Eastwood westerns, "we don't need no stink'n badges". Or, we don't need to know what's legal.
Not sure many here even know what a professional seminar is like, where they actually teach, have in depth discussion, have qualified expert speakers etc. (such as the National HAHRO conferences). BTW, those into multi-family, you should check out NAHRO, that is the basic driving force in the market and they have affiliate memberships. (The tip of the spear so to speak) Those just aren't as lose legged as investor meetings educationally but certainly for networking they can be very good as Jay mentioned. Networking is key in RE. :)
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
@Kyle Sowell, are you marketing your motivating skills to the gurus?...
Kyle's response was basically, "for the last 4 years"...
Bill, I hope you realized I was teasing, NOT encouraging him (hinting that his guru-speak would not trick any sensible person here on BP into paying HIM for "investing in self" education, that can be gotten just as easily for free)!
But later, I did more or less thank him for reminding us how canned these guru sermons are! Thank you for YOUR genuinely motivating post, Bill. Cheers...
Thanks,
But I'm not so sure there aren't a bunch that would take that stuff hook, line and sinker. You can see the "just do it" crowd, go blindly where others have failed types, reminds me of Clint Eastwood westerns, "we don't need no stink'n badges". Or, we don't need to know what's legal.
Not sure many here even know what a professional seminar is like, where they actually teach, have in depth discussion, have qualified expert speakers etc. (such as the National HAHRO conferences). BTW, those into multi-family, you should check out NAHRO, that is the basic driving force in the market and they have affiliate memberships. (The tip of the spear so to speak) Those just aren't as lose legged as investor meetings educationally but certainly for networking they can be very good as Jay mentioned. Networking is key in RE. :)
- Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 71 posts · 35 votes10y
If you look closely, Rich Dad sold their courses and educational Company to Donald Trump and Trump Univ - they are the same thing. The smallest "Tuition" for their program is, I believe, $16,000. Highest is $40,000. (FYI Trump U has been in a class action litigation about their fraudulent classes for 5 years. Still in progress)
I have run a RE Investment club for 2 years in Southern California and I have heard over and over "Yeah I'm one of those (silly, stupid, regretful) people who bought that program and now have a huge credit card debt. I wish I had waited and learned more from other people instead first". I have also presented many folks selling their courses and have opinions about good and not so good ones.
The people teaching those 3 day Rich Dad and Fortune Builders "courses" are Brilliant - at selling the courses! They give you just enough info and tell success stories enough to make it seem like it is the easiest thing in the world to do yourself AFTER you buy their info of course.
There are TONS of resources out there. Bigger Pockets is a huge and hugely helpful one. And also there are tons of free rehab calculators, deal marketing strategies, ways to create "We Buy Houses" websites, how to buy pre-foreclosure lists, how to write "yellow letters" (and if they work or not), and all sorts of other tools you might need. However, it IS difficult to make yourself move forward on your own, and often scary (I speak from experience Lol). For that reason, I feel that certain classes or Gurus or groups or teams are valuable because of the Network you build and the support you get from others who have gone through the same training. You will NOT get that with Rich Dad training as 80%-90% of people who buy into it never do anything more.
So if for nothing else, go to your Local REIA and ask people what classes or courses THEY took - and that will be the most educational thing you can do to start with. It will truly help you make a better decision.
- San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 132 posts · 50 votes10y
Originally posted by @Julie Falen:
If you look closely, Rich Dad sold their courses and educational Company to Donald Trump and Trump Univ - they are the same thing. The smallest "Tuition" for their program is, I believe, $16,000. Highest is $40,000. (FYI Trump U has been in a class action litigation about their fraudulent classes for 5 years. Still in progress)
I have run a RE Investment club for 2 years in Southern California and I have heard over and over "Yeah I'm one of those (silly, stupid, regretful) people who bought that program and now have a huge credit card debt. I wish I had waited and learned more from other people instead first". I have also presented many folks selling their courses and have opinions about good and not so good ones.
The people teaching those 3 day Rich Dad and Fortune Builders "courses" are Brilliant - at selling the courses! They give you just enough info and tell success stories enough to make it seem like it is the easiest thing in the world to do yourself AFTER you buy their info of course.
There are TONS of resources out there. Bigger Pockets is a huge and hugely helpful one. And also there are tons of free rehab calculators, deal marketing strategies, ways to create "We Buy Houses" websites, how to buy pre-foreclosure lists, how to write "yellow letters" (and if they work or not), and all sorts of other tools you might need. However, it IS difficult to make yourself move forward on your own, and often scary (I speak from experience Lol). For that reason, I feel that certain classes or Gurus or groups or teams are valuable because of the Network you build and the support you get from others who have gone through the same training. You will NOT get that with Rich Dad training as 80%-90% of people who buy into it never do anything more.
So if for nothing else, go to your Local REIA and ask people what classes or courses THEY took - and that will be the most educational thing you can do to start with. It will truly help you make a better decision.
Well stated, Julie. FYI, the Rich Dad program I was apart of was much less than $16K, but it was a few thousand dollars.
I have, and continue, to read about litigation involving many different "guru" courses and programs. Although there are some instances where "students" get their money back after lawyers are involved. I have no doubt that this shadowy practice will continue since the reward for the marketers of these programs is far greater than the con of having to pay back a few of their clients. The old adage is true, "a fool and his (her) money are soon parted." - 10yDana WhickerPro MemberInvestor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
Originally posted by @Travis Sperr:
No.
Agree.
- Burbank, CA · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 6 votes10y
Hi...prior to learning about BP I purchased the RD Real Estate program - everyday I regret making that choice and blowing my savings that way! Up to that point, I loved everything related to Kiyosaki and I still am thankful for what I learned from his books. Second Chance is what inspired me to make changes in my life. That said, if I could do it all over again, I would never throw away my money by purchasing their coaching program. I have learned more by listening to BP podcasts, reading the posts by investors on BP; and, by attending investor meet up FREE lectures.
I would recommend to anyone considering RD programs....don't do it! Better to invest the money in real deals that give you a return on your investment.
Just my thoughts....
B
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 47 votes10y
I started out without any of those "gurus" at 21 wholesaling and flipping. Read books, talk to people, make relationships. If you're starting out wholesaling, it's really simple. There's not a whole lot you have to know. If that's what you're doing, don't buy any programs. If you're doing a buy-hold strategy, having a mentor can eliminate a lot of the mistakes.
The only one I'd recommend if you really need it is @Joe Fairless. (especially if you're buying and holding)
He's only 2k up front and his info is pretty valuable. He has unlimited talk time every month. I use him for multifamily and it's worth it.
- Lender · Upland, CA · Member since 2009 · 112 posts · 27 votes10y
@Bobbi Martinez has said it very well, instead of purchasing an expensive class, please use that money to invest in a real deal and learn from the experience... do some research here in BP first but don't wait too much to take action!
I'm all in favor of education, but when you are starting don't use your money for that, with time and taking advantage of your peers in the business you will know which classes are worth it and which are not... there are many good classes and many good clubs out there but unfortunately there are many bad ones as well... just be careful.
- Wholesaler · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes10y
@Denny KisnerI know it's been a while since your original post but I'm curious what direction you decided to go and how the past few months have been for you? It's definitely a struggle starting out and you have this conversation on whether or not to pay for education/mentors and whether or not the education/mentors will be worth the investment.
I've been to a few of the "guru" seminars and I've paid close attention to the language they use. They're vague and their goal is to make you feel like you need them to succeed. The fact is what you really need to succeed is a burning desire and relentless action. Where education and mentorship can make a difference is in how soon and how effective the actions will be.
If you're still looking at education and mentorship, I'd recommend looking into Renatus. They don't do the bootcamp sales model and their instructors are teaching you what systems they've set up in their real estate businesses (I like to call it practical-tactical info). They also have an A+ rating with the BBB which not many real estate investing educational companies can obtain (unless they buy the accreditation).
Anyway, which ever route you go, I hope you make the best of it and get some positive results!
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