Hold out for Sale or Transition to Renting

Hold out for Sale or Transition to Renting

Realtor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 20 votes

I'll try to keep this as specific as possible as to prevent the "...it depends" responses. I understand this is a lengthy post, but it is all in the interest of garnering the most pointed advice.

BLUF: Wife and I own a previous-dwelling single family home (House A); we moved to a new area, purchased a new single family home (House B). Looking for advice on holding out for a sale of House B to regain capital, or listing the House B for rent.

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In 2013, my wife and I purchased a 1974 2-story "fixer" in Clovis, NM via a no-money down VA loan, which we poured our blood, sweat, and tears into for 3 years: refinishing the exterior, installing hardwood floors, upgrading countertops, repainting all the walls and trim, retiling showers, blowing out walls, replacing light fixtures, etc.. While we never drained our bank accounts into the home, we spent approximately $20,000 in our own capital over those 3 years (materials, tools, hired help) to improve the property from its original $185k purchase price to our max renovation budget at its original appraisal value of $205,000; this does not include the many, MANY hours of DIY that we put into the home to help save our dollars, but in hindsight, we realize we may have lost that investiture. Our hopes were to sell at $109/sqft, which was right below the going average of homes in July of this year, putting us right around the $275,000 mark.

The military recently sent us on to Florida for a short notice assignment and in our last 60 days in NM, we finished up all our remaining renovation projects prior to listing the house for sale with a local realtor (the same one we used to purchase the home).

We've since moved to our new location here in Florida, and while our property in NM has received numerous online viewings, open house walkthroughs, and private showings, all with positive reviews, we've yet to receive an offer (even after dropping the price by $25k to $249k after the first month...now extremely competitive at $99/sqft). The feedback we receives lends us to believe that buyers are venturing the way of small "cookie cutter new" rather than sprawling "renovated with character."

Our realtor has mentioned that this is the worst iteration of the seller's market in her many years of experience in the area, and while we want to be hopeful that it will regain steam, we are worried that we'll be left paying a mortgage for a home that holds a good bit of our capital. Additionally, we are set to close on a new construction build in Florida in the next two weeks (queue the financial stress...). We are financing this newer home under our current VA loan cap using almost all of our remaining capital from savings for the required down payment.

With the high probability of holding two mortgages, one of which will be on a home that sits vacant in a buyer's market, we are wondering which avenue to take: hold out for the market to cycle back in the seller's (our) favor and regain our investment capital, or list the house for rent and make the slow, laborious climb to our target savings using small return in cash flow (assuming we ARE able to cash flow).

In summary:

Originally purchased at: $184,900, $74/sqft (Principal Remaining $177,000)

Invested: $20,000

Currently Listed for Sale at: $249,000, $99/sqft

Break-even Renovation Price (including 6% realtor commission / Closing): ~$230,000, depending on closing cost arrangements.

Days on Market: 61

Net Rental Income to Positive Cash Flow $200.00 (including 10% property management, 10% for repairs): $1750.00, equates to Fair Market Rent for sqft, house specs, and location

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With our goals of purchasing our first investment property by September 2017, I am concerned by the opportunities lost in keeping all of our investment capital tied up in the NM home; I'm equally concerned that if we choose to leave it on the market, we will end up paying two mortgages until the market takes an upward turn, a duration of time of which I have no prediction.

By my rough calculations, it will take ~19 more months before the additional mortgage payments we pay into the home overtake the profit (aside from capital) we would have made from a sale on Day 1. It will take approximately ~36 months for those mortgage payments to eat up the capital we would have had from a sale on Day 1. Additionally, if we leave the house on the market, we will be netting a significantly lesser value per month based on sheer fixed income vs. 2x houses worth of outgoing expenses.  

If we choose to rent the property, I'm confident we can cash flow $150-$200 with long-term leases, but I'm worried about taking an older home and putting it through the "ringer" of potential tenants; especially knowing that we want to eventually sell.

*Pulls hair out*

With that being said, has anyone had experience with renting older (1970's-1980's era) homes? Do you ever worry about the risk of renting negatively affecting (destroying) your property to the point where it is no longer marketable for sale?

What about the first-time flippers in the room - any experience flipping an older house and then choosing to rent it out (with aspirations to eventually sell)?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated as we are currently gathering information and resources on becoming landlords/renting. Thanks!

- Mark 

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Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
10y

Hello Mark ,

First let me say I'm sorry you just like a lot of good people find themselves in this situation, a lot have lost their house to forclosures so with yuo and your wife should feel like your ahead for just having the options you pointed out. Keep a positive attitude so you don't come to hate the subject property. That being said I know that there is couple of options you may not have considered. One is owner financing with a decent down payment. There are a lot of good people that lost their homes as mentioned before and can't get conventional financing because of the forclosure  on their credit. If you take that into consideration when accepting a potential buyer that your financing you may find someone that is still responsible but just had a bad run with the economy. If you choose to go that route then I would keep the down payment in a escrow type account in case you need to forclosed on them in the future but going that route can give you and them so options like you can alway ask for a balloon payment in say five years so that gives them time to repair their credit and should be able to get financed buy then, also maybe the market should have rebounded fully by then. You can ask your orininal $110-$120 a sqft when selling this way, plus you can get a decent % on your money. Because they have skin in the deal they should take better care than just renters.

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  • Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    10y

    I would probably go ahead and rent it out rather than try and get your money back.  Most people will rather buy a new home for that $/sqft if the option is available.   You could always sell it after the tenants pay it off for you.  When I buy rentals I usually look for something that is at least already mostly functional for about 20-45/sqft.  The extra work you've done to the place should help attract some quality tenants I would think and you could always sell in the future when the prospects seem better.

  • Rental Property Investor · Great Falls, MT · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    It's hard to say if you should leave it vacant or not.  I know we didn't even have the choices you do when we fell into the landlord game (it's nice to have options). 

    We became accidental landlords when we had a 4/3 built in Central Florida on a nice corner lot for $170,000 in 2005. We had that same house appraise for $262,000 about a year later, but when it was time to sell in 2011 a realtor guaranteed they could get us close to $110,000 for it. We became Landlords and fell in love with the investing side of it.  We were fortunate enough to get some good renters in there and they have actually remained there for the last 6 years. 

     If you can find good tenants it could be well worth renting out until the market changes.  By the time our tenants next lease is up our house should go on the market for about $195,000.  We haven't raised their rent once since they moved in because the market keeps going up about 8% a year.  They are still paying the mortgage and we aren't loosing money.  The principal balance is going down and the property is appreciating back to where it should be.  Now if we had put horrible renters in there we might have not been so lucky.  Hope this helps.....but you are the one that has to roll the dice.

  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    10y

    Hello Mark ,

    First let me say I'm sorry you just like a lot of good people find themselves in this situation, a lot have lost their house to forclosures so with yuo and your wife should feel like your ahead for just having the options you pointed out. Keep a positive attitude so you don't come to hate the subject property. That being said I know that there is couple of options you may not have considered. One is owner financing with a decent down payment. There are a lot of good people that lost their homes as mentioned before and can't get conventional financing because of the forclosure  on their credit. If you take that into consideration when accepting a potential buyer that your financing you may find someone that is still responsible but just had a bad run with the economy. If you choose to go that route then I would keep the down payment in a escrow type account in case you need to forclosed on them in the future but going that route can give you and them so options like you can alway ask for a balloon payment in say five years so that gives them time to repair their credit and should be able to get financed buy then, also maybe the market should have rebounded fully by then. You can ask your orininal $110-$120 a sqft when selling this way, plus you can get a decent % on your money. Because they have skin in the deal they should take better care than just renters.

  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    10y

    Oops hit the post button , you can go the lease to own which is similar to owner financed but basically they rent it for a couple years with a deposit normally about 1/2 as much as buying it and sometimes you can even add a few hundred to their rent which will be credited to their down payment at the end of the two years (forced savings) if they decide not to buy it after the two years then either you can set it up where they loose there deposit in full which may cause problems when they leave or loose their monthly credit towards their down payment  but get their deposit back which is a better situation in my opinion. The point is though you can set it up anyway that works best for you and the potential buyer. You can look  into executive rentals which normally require fully furnished and stocked ( dishes,towels and bedding ) but you can get a lot more rent and normally get a lot better quality renter, some downfalls though is it is normally short term but sometimes you can get lucky and cooperation's will lease it for the year and send differant people there periodically. What kind of corporations are in the area ? You mentioned the military, that is another option, to lease to military personnel who would get into truouble with their co if they trash a rental and if you get a officer then chances are you will have a near perfect renter. I hope this helps you realize you have more options than you might have realized , you might just have to think outside the box a bit .

    I wish only the best for you and your family and hopefully you end up like Peter and fall in love with becoming a accidental real estate investor. You already made the best discussion so far by comming to Bigger Pockets .

    God Speed,

    Michael Short 

    P.s. You can sign up for a pro membership and list the ( by owner financing ) right here on BP. Who knows ? 

  • Realtor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 20 votes
    10y
    Michael Short thanks for the reply! I'm still educating myself on owner financing, but from what I can tell, not owning our property in New Mexico will cause conflicts with our current lender (e.g. Owner financing a home that we already have a mortgage on). This may cause issues if the original lender gave us a "Due on Sale" clause, which I'm pretty sure is standard now-a-days. Lease to own is an option, but provides us almost the same benefit as renting, the difference being that we will most likely lose out on cash flow for the time the "tenant/buyer" is in the home. We're continuing to explore out options and hope we pick the least risky of the bunch.
  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Before you decide to rent it out, drop it closer to the break-even price, then possibly ask agents involved to lower commissions if you get an offer lower than that.   Owning a rental from across the country may work for some, especially if you have family or friends nearby that you can count on, but from experience we know that it can be much more expensive dealing with property management from farther away than you can easily drive.  When they call and say an expensive repair is necessary, how do you check it out without flying across the country, adding way too much to the expense?   Do you have the cushion for evictions, repairs, vacancy?   Even for minor repairs, will it drive you nuts when you're charged $120 for something you know you could have fixed for $20 if you were there?  If you do have the cushion and you think the market will go up enough to make you more money to make it worth the risk, then keep it and rent it.  If not, drop the price as low as you can and see if it generates any offers before you decide to rent it.   

  • Rental Property Investor · Corrales, NM · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 28 votes
    10y
    Where are you getting info that says enacting the due on sale clause is standard now days?
  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    10y

    Lynn, might be right sometimes you got to cut your losses and move on , I'm pretty sure though any scenario wether renting , lease with option, or land contract the morgage company has the right to execute a due on sale clause .. I may be mistaken but for a loan that you got as a owner occupier is differant than a investment loan so even renting it is against the original loan terms . It just one of those things that morgage company's tend to over look especially if your payment keep coming on time. But you can always consider a seller financed with a creative contract between you and the buyer , something that is basically a glorified lease agreement . Not sure what the law is there .. How are your original terms on your loan ? If they are decent then you might be able to talk with the morgage  company and see if yours is assumable. Then just ask for a decent down payment to cover what you owe and what you need and they assume the rest .. I'm just trying to think creatively and have no idea if any of what I am saying is even feasible .. Once again I wish you two the very best .. 

    God Speed 

    Michael    

  • Realtor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @Lynn McGeein and @Account Closed, again, thank you for the replies and insight. Interestingly enough, we have an offer incoming, but it is a little "different" than what I would consider a normal deal. 

    We've basically conceded to losing our sweat equity and in the interest of regaining our capital, met the buyer at the lowest price we could go without losing our investment (we'll get $0 in profit, but will gain back the capital from our down-paid principal). The realtor helped us out in this regard by lowering her commission to 4.5% (she is working for both the buyer and seller). 

    This would all be great, with the exception that the deal is contingent upon the buyer selling their current home, for which they are scheduled to go under contract in October (their buyer can't attain financing until that time). Additionally, our buyer would like to rent our property until we can close in October/November; in essence, renting until we can perform back to back closures.

    So, the waters get a little trickier to navigate now...

    Do we accept the LOW offer, contingent upon their house selling, while also renting it to the potential buyer...OR are we better off finding a long term lease from another customer and attempting the sale at a later date.

    One thing my wife and I are SUPER concerned about is renting the property before closing, especially given that the property is older. We would obviously have a home inspection performed before signing any kind of lease, but we could put ourselves in a spot where the potential buyer gets a "trial" period of our home, finds additional things they don't like (or worse, something major breaks), and they walk from the sale. We might get our earnest money back...we might not.

    We both feel like we're assuming a good bit of risk (even more so then solely renting it out for a few years).

    Thoughts? Experience with renting to buyers prior to closing? 

    Mark

  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    10y

    I'm bowing out here .. I don't have any advice to give because you bring up vailid points .. Wait.. I may have a idea. To further protect yourself I suppose you could always say that your not willing to write anything less than a 6 month lease and if you do then charge the top of the market price and still require a deposit. Ibut I might insist on a year . If for any reason their financing falls through then they are still on the hook for the rent payments till the term is up, which then put you 6-12 mths farther down the road and the market might have recouped more by then. I know here in Central Florida it is rising so quickly , one house I was looking at that still had blue tubs and sinks in the bathrooms didn't even have a oven just went under contract for 60k more than asking which puts it almost at the top of the market for a rehabbed property if that caliper. Anyway if in Oct they come through with their financing then you can both agree to cancel the lease upon closing and deposits can be put toward fees or down payments .. See this way you get the somewhat gaurentee that they are not trying to just get a very short time rental , if they really love your home tand want to buy it then they shouldn't have a problem with this deal ( think to yourself if the tables were turned , would you have a problem with it when yu know your financing will come through) because there are so many things that can change even in that short period of time . I think that is the only way I myself would move forward . I hope this helps and if you decide to do this then I hope the buyer agrees. I also think that the agent reducing her rate is nice but think of it this way , she would only get 3.5 percent if you didn't waive conflict for her representing both parties . I had a property that I wouldn't sell unless I got a certain amount and my realitor reduced his commission down to about 2% and even found the buyer but we were only on the market for 2 weeks and he still made right around 5k .  He offered to lower his commission, I didn't ask,  But took him up on it . We are now friends and keep in touch with each other .  I am curious what you think of this idea 

  • Realtor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed, thank you for sticking with this post, and I appreciate all that you've provided in ways of creative solutions. I think what we will end up doing is a longer term lease like you've mentioned to lock in the "tenant" in case the purchase agreement falls through. At least we'll assured in either case that we will have someone living there (and either making our capital back or generating cash flow).

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
    10y

    either way, good luck soldier. 

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