Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 53 votes
Hi there,
I've been looking for gap financing for a multifamily property for the past few weeks. Through the process I met a man named Bryan Chambers. He claims he has plenty of money to lend, but wants an origination fee. Sensing this was a scam I suggested I put the $450 origination fee in escrow and when I get the loan I will release the origination fee. He refused. I then asked for references, which he also refused.
He finally sent me a proof of funds letter from HSBC (attached). I called HSBC and they told me they couldn't verify the funds without Bryan on the phone. When I asked Bryan if he would be willing to get on the phone he said the proof of funds letter should be enough and he wouldn't get on the phone with the bank.
Now he's pinging me 2-3 times a day wanting to complete the transaction. I can't help but thinking I'm getting scammed here. What are your thoughts?
Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Robert Lindsley, I suspect you will not like this response. I hope it will be instructive. I suspect that the lender is not legitimate, but you also suspected as much or you wouldn't have made your post. (If you do not trust a potential partner, any potential partner, you are well advised to move on.) I would terminate all communications with the lender and would not consider doing business with them.
I would also not consider doing business with you. You posted a letter, that if it came from a lender, was intended to be confidential. You made no effort to cover any account information. You posted it in a form that could be easily copied by borrower scammers, or wholesaler scammers, etc. to use as they wish. If this were a legitimate lender you may have caused them considerable grief which, at the minimum, might force them to change their account numbers or move their funds to another bank. You could have received the confirmation of your suspicions that you desired and been more thoughtful about your effect on what might just have been an inexperienced private lender.
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
@Robert Lindsley, I am not an expert on this, but here are my concerns. If the guy is a mortgage broker, then he doesn't have the funds himself, he applies to various places for a loan. Hard money lenders have the funds in the bank, but they charge you the fees and you make monthly payments. You do not pay them money before you get the loan. These two stories do not mix. For a guy so anxious to do a loan he is doing nothing to cooperate with you. I find it very sketchy. Even if he is legit his whole attitude should say do not do business with him. However it does not seem that he is legit. I would put this one behind you.
Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 53 votes
9y
Thanks everybody for your help. This guy has been suspect all along and if anything the proof of funds letter adds to the sketchiness. I'm going to pass on this guy unless I can pay as part of escrow close. Otherwise I'm going to keep searching. Ideally I'd like a long-term investor/partner that I can work with on multiple deals, and this guy doesn't fit the bill. Thanks!
Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 53 votes
9y
Facebook. There's a lending forum that I'm a member of -- but it seems like there are more scammers there than anything. I posted about needing gap funding for a property and he reached out to me.
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 45 votes
9y
Sounds fishy. Its not hard to put together a fake letter like that one. I agree with the posters above me, the wording sounds suspect - Personally I wouldn't trust it. Even if he is good for the money, doesn't sound like someone you want to conduct business with. There are without a doubt more/better opportunities out there. Just keep looking, you'll find one.
If he keeps pinging you and is so eager to close this deal and make some quick money, maybe he should try his luck in Vegas! Best of Luck
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
9y
It's written by a Nigerian probably. Look at how they wrote the numbers for $810,000 (there's a comma separating dollars and cents). There's poor capitalization as well.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably not a cow.
Rental Property Investor · Whippany, NJ · Member since 2015 · 29 posts · 9 votes
9y
this seems fake to me. I have been scammed in the past when I was in my late teens and did not do research on letters like this, where was the Internet then, and this site?
Portland, OR · Member since 2008 · 123 posts · 73 votes
9y
Totally fake. Just the address alone should tell you that.
81 Sunnyvale, street united states
No city or state? The phone number isn't listed as an HSBC branch, and is located in upstate NY. There are only 5 addresses in the US at "81 Sunnyvale" and they're all California cities. All of them are residential.
Who has exactly 810,000.00 in the bank? It probably would have seemed more authentic if they said 810,297.42. Also, it would be written "eight hundred ten thousand dollars" not "eight hundred and ten thousand dollars" that's an incorrect usage of "and". Anyone working in a bank (and most 4th graders) knows this.
Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Robert Lindsley, I suspect you will not like this response. I hope it will be instructive. I suspect that the lender is not legitimate, but you also suspected as much or you wouldn't have made your post. (If you do not trust a potential partner, any potential partner, you are well advised to move on.) I would terminate all communications with the lender and would not consider doing business with them.
I would also not consider doing business with you. You posted a letter, that if it came from a lender, was intended to be confidential. You made no effort to cover any account information. You posted it in a form that could be easily copied by borrower scammers, or wholesaler scammers, etc. to use as they wish. If this were a legitimate lender you may have caused them considerable grief which, at the minimum, might force them to change their account numbers or move their funds to another bank. You could have received the confirmation of your suspicions that you desired and been more thoughtful about your effect on what might just have been an inexperienced private lender.
Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
Pay the $200 or $300 to be a member of a local REIA. They will have sponsors who pay to be at your meetings. THEY are the legit ones. Ask them who they have done deals with so that you can actually talk with people, IN PERSON, who have used their services.
Not to say that you can not be scammed in person, but if you have talked with references at the REIAs, been to their office, and spoken with them, I think it is more likely that they are legit. I hope this helps.
Developer · Hobart, IN · Member since 2014 · 773 posts · 225 votes
9y
I agree seems a little fishy to me. I've worked with quite a few private investors and have never had one call me non stop to because they were anxious to do a deal.
Investor · Benton, AR · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 1 vote
9y
If you don't feel comfortable. Its probably a good idea to drop him.Don't waste your time second guessing yourself. Spend that time looking for a professional that can make it happen
Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 53 votes
9y
Thanks everybody for your help. I'm absolutely going to pass on this opportunity and keep searching. I've never felt comfortable with this person and that's not a good way to start a long-term investor relationship, even if he were a above-board.
@Jeff Rabinowitz I thought about what you said and you're absolutely right. There's really no defense and it was inconsiderate of me to post that without blacking out the account information. Thank you for pointing that out. If he were a legit investor it would be a huge betrayal of trust.
Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
9y
Hello Robert,
I was contacted today by an "older" gentlemen with the same name on Facebook via messenger. He offered a loan at 5% interest rate. How does Bryan Chambers contacted you?
Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 185 posts · 53 votes
9y
Hello Rene,
It sounds like the same guy. Messenger was how Bryan Chambers contacted me. I can't say for sure whether it was a scam or not (I passed on working with him) but if you decide to work with him please be careful and do your diligence before sending him his requested origination fee.