BEWARE of Scamming/Misleading People

BEWARE of Scamming/Misleading People

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes

Something that I've noticed, that really frustrated me, are the snake oil salesman in real estate investing. 

If i can help anyone avoid being lied to by fake individuals I will. 

I am an investor in the Indiana area, but what I want to bring to your attention are the Podcasts/YouTube Videos/Seminars/etc.. that target unsuspecting beginners with the promise that they'll reveal the secrets of their method, give you the same method, and watch you grow. But what they really do is fill your head with good feelings and excitement, give you nothing, and place a GIANT price tag on their "package they offer". I cannot stand folk who do this and who are able to get over on a lot of kind-hearted investors looking to learn. 

Things to lookout for

1. Someone who claims to be an amazing investor that can teach you things, and they constantly are advertising for you to join their mailing list. 

This may seem unassuming at first glance, but 9 times out of 10 you will give your email hoping to gather some great information and maybe event connect with others. However, what you usually get immediately are a bunch of emails asking soliciting expensive mentor packages or "business building templates" for you to follow and reach success. 

There are TOOOO many legitimate resources out here (BP being one of them to allow these predatory salesman take advantage of a new investor's lack of knowledge).

2. Free Book!! Beware of all offers from someone telling you their give you a free book. 

The books are almost always targeted at beginners for a reason. It isn't by accident that every time you see these offers, it seems to be just for the topic you feel like you need to know about before you can begin...think about it. 

This whole premise ties into #1 on the list, 9 times out of 10, the person offering a free eBook or even free hard-copy books use this terminology as a way to get people to...you guessed it.....sign up on their mailing list. 

3. Celebrity Seminars in your LOCAL area.....for FREE!! Just sign up now.

This.....this one really gets under my skin. First, because I expect more upstanding business practices from the celebrities/successful investors, I imagine them to have strong morals. Second, because they strategically target people based on their internet searches, browser cookies, etc.

The issue with this is, again, 9.9 times out of 10, the seminar is truly free, which is a good thing. However, the downfall is that, the person who you recognized on the advertisement....will NOT be at the seminar. They will likely send someone to represent them. "Well that still sounds cool", you might say. Except that person they sent to represent them, isn't actually representing them at all, that person was sent to SELL you an expensive package for a multi-day seminar where the ACTUAL businessperson you came to see, will be. (For real this time).

And it gets better. Since you showed up in person, they will "cut" the price for you!! Instead of $Xx,xxx for the seminar, now it's only going to be $X,xxx!!!! Aren't you lucky?! Better sign up now before it's too late cause it's only a one day offer!....except the fact that tomorrow they'll be in the city next to yours offering The. Exact. Same. Thing. 

"So where on Earth can I go to really learn?!"

Great Question! There are so many FREE/Low Costing and LEGITIMATE sources of information out there if you're aware of them. 

1. Get a membership at your local library and download the Overdrive app on iOS or Android. What this app does is partner with your local library and allows you to electronically check out eBooks and read them at your leisure. FOR FREE!!! Almost all of the great eBooks you hear about should be offered by your public library (if you're in a larger/medium city). 

2. PODCASTS! PODCASTS! PODCASTS! These are self explanatory, listen to podcasts and then listen again and then listen a 3rd time. Bigger Pockets (of course). Robert Kiyosaki. Everyday is Saturday. There are just so many. Go find some and listen until your heart is content. The only thing I would urge you to do is do a little bit of research on the people in these podcasts before you get too deep. And as always, don't take every single word you hear in a podcast as gospel. 

3. Your local REIA. This goes without saying almost. If you're interested in learning more and connecting with local investors. Join your REIA and make sure it's free (some REIAs charge). But I will say that, even with REIAs, take the words with a grain of salt and DO YOUR RESEARCH on the speakers who come (guest speakers will come sometimes). Also, it's worth pointing out that sometimes there are people selling mentor packages at REIA meetings as well, I urge you to focus on relationship building and networking.

Those are just the main 3 that I can think of that I've seen time and time again and even been taken by on a few occasions. It doesn't make you less of an investor to bite on these kinds of things, it just makes you someone who was very eager to learn and unfortunately made for a perfect target for people to prey on a bit. 

Feel free to share your thoughts on this, add other things to look out for, or ask me any questions! I'll help where I can. I just hope this helps even one person level-set their expectations and tread more cautiously in this exciting business. 

:) 

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Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
I've been "mentoring" this kid in houston for about a year. Answering 100s of questions and looking at deals. Didn't charge him. Told him I would start unless he only asked me about a deal he put under contract. Helped him nail a deal down. 12 unit. $31k/door. $500/month rents. He raised them to $650 with little work. Put in some cosmetic rehab. All in about $400k. He just put it under contract for sale at $560k. After all fees he'll make about $150k. I think his downpayment was $75k. Got some HML to help close it and fix it. Massive return on cash. Good for him. Anyway. Whole point: there is an avalanche of free and helpful info out there and people (like the people here) willing to help if you ask. The thing stoping people is almost never a lack of knowledge. But rather a lack of willingness to act. This kid now has some xp under his belt and $200k to play with. His next Prop will likely be a ~30 unit $1m deal.
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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

    Hmm, essentially. I'm more-so getting at, when starting out, there are a lot of tempting directions to go in to learn and get information. So, I caution folk to be wary of some ways that may result in being mislead/having time wasted in the crucial times of learning. 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Evan Parker:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

    Hmm, essentially. I'm more-so getting at, when starting out, there are a lot of tempting directions to go in to learn and get information. So, I caution folk to be wary of some ways that may result in being mislead/having time wasted in the crucial times of learning. 

    So by saying all rectangles are squares, in the REI sense, you're saying all those that present educational packages are frauds and to avoid them

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Evan Parker:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

    Hmm, essentially. I'm more-so getting at, when starting out, there are a lot of tempting directions to go in to learn and get information. So, I caution folk to be wary of some ways that may result in being mislead/having time wasted in the crucial times of learning. 

    So by saying all rectangles are squares, in the REI sense, you're saying all those that present educational packages are frauds and to avoid them

    Not quite, maybe I didn't state my points as clearly as I thought. Mentoring packages in the purest sense are not scams/misleading. All educational packages are not frauds. I would not and could not make a blanket statement like that. 

    In my opinion, however it is misleading/a major time waster for beginner investors, who are trying to soak up as much information as possible, to immediately jump into a seminar geared toward getting into their pockets more than providing actual substance to help learn. Especially in this day and age where information is so rampant and free, I urge all people, particularly beginners to explore all free/low costing resources at their disposal. 


    Why? Because:
    A. Those free/low costing resources are extremely helpful

    B. The typical new investor is less likely to continue on if they run and jump into a program that costs them $5,000, run and jump into exciting sounding seminars only to find out they're being cornered for money, and if they feel like they're being lied to during the vulnerable state of learning.

    C. For the typical beginner investor, it's counter-intuitive to spend thousands on someone/something just to learn.

    For example, I would give the same advice to someone wanting to build an app or learn to code. I would urge them to not just immediately run and sign up for a college class/expensive crash course on coding, but instead utilize the free resources that are already at their disposal. 

    And quite honestly, a lot of the offerings that I stated in my original post are extremely shady in nature, at best. I do not respect businesses that have to rely on a bait and switch tactic to get people in the door. 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    First, let me say I'm not disagreeing with your basic premise...just your blanket statements (even though your blankets are getting smaller). 

     Every business does a form of what you would refer to as "bait and switch"...it's called the "upsell".  Get them in the door, then sell them more.  It's the most basic form of advertizing there is...and has been around forever...in one form or another.

    The typical Newbie Investor needs what the good programs have to offer...and even some of the upsell.  I will tell you this too, many "experienced" investors could use some of the education that comes from classes like these (not all).  

    You're correct though when you say there are the scams...but in most cases they are not the scams you think they are.  What they are selling/teaching is the same basic things that have been taught for decades (maybe centuries), very generic, and in a lot of cases very wrong...or at best very out dated.

    As far as the cost is concerned, would you not say that an education on how to spend, use, control and make Millions of dollars over the next <fill in a number here> years is worth spending a few bucks on? I let you fill in the numbers as you see fit, but I'm trained as an Architect...and I would spend (and have spent) more money on my REI education than I have on my Architectural education...and in both cases the money was well spent.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve

    I agree with most of what you said. 

    I agree that of course it's not an inherently negative thing to spend money on education. Education is the crux of this game we call life...But so is money. Therefore, it pays to first be a bit educated about what you may potentially spend your money on.

    For example, If someone comes to me and has $15-20k that they would like to invest and try their hand at making a better life for themselves, the last thing I'd tell them to do is jump and spend $6k of that on a beginner's seminar. (Especially before they've even done their own learning or reading).

    As you mentioned what is being taught in a lot of the beginner courses that are marketed in the ways I indicated, is very basic or outdated at best. But as a beginner, if no one ever tells you to be wary of some of those seminars, you may none the wiser. So now instead of $15k to invest you're down to $9k and all you have to show for it is beginner sales knowledge that could have been acquired by literally reading just one book, for free, from the library. 

    The reason I called them a scam is not because they take your money and run in the literal sense. But courses like that take your money and leave you with outdated information or poor information. I call it a scam because going into it, they (the 'teacher') know they're about to provide some trash information, and hope that the students don't know. 

    You, sir, are someone I'd be happy to have a sit down conversation with. Great dialogue. 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Evan Parker:

    @Joe Villeneuve

    I agree with most of what you said. 

    I agree that of course it's not an inherently negative thing to spend money on education. Education is the crux of this game we call life...But so is money. Therefore, it pays to first be a bit educated about what you may potentially spend your money on.

    For example, If someone comes to me and has $15-20k that they would like to invest and try their hand at making a better life for themselves, the last thing I'd tell them to do is jump and spend $6k of that on a beginner's seminar. (Especially before they've even done their own learning or reading).

    As you mentioned what is being taught in a lot of the beginner courses that are marketed in the ways I indicated, is very basic or outdated at best. But as a beginner, if no one ever tells you to be wary of some of those seminars, you may none the wiser. So now instead of $15k to invest you're down to $9k and all you have to show for it is beginner sales knowledge that could have been acquired by literally reading just one book, for free, from the library. 

    The reason I called them a scam is not because they take your money and run in the literal sense. But courses like that take your money and leave you with outdated information or poor information. I call it a scam because going into it, they (the 'teacher') know they're about to provide some trash information, and hope that the students don't know. 

    You, sir, are someone I'd be happy to have a sit down conversation with. Great dialogue. 

     Any time sir, any time.  It would be my pleasure

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    @Evan Parker  PM me.  I always love networking

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Even with outdated information most people never act on the education they receive. There are those who can take the information validate it research it and then go out and do 20 deals. Then there are those who may be given the greatest information in the world and will never apply it  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed  I give out a free e book on out of state investing and I don't sell properties out of state expect for an occasional OREO that I have..

    this is a tough one having relationships with most of the guru's over the years and having funded a lot of the students.

    then who are we to decide what someone does with their money..

    I used to be as black and white as the OP about this subject until I actually went to a few of the really large events.

    Sat and talked to attendee's that paid 30 to 40k to go.. many frankly were real estate brokers... and other professionals.

    I do think though pounding on folks who have no money and getting them to run up their credit cards to pay to go to the event is something I am no totally comfortable with.. but then I think of that little company called Hewlet Packard and think back on how they started with a 10k loan in a garage in Palo Alto right down the street from were I used to live.. were did they end up.

    So when I go to these events as an invited vendor.. I see all the people I see 400 people with star's in there eyes I ride on the bus's with them I look at 3/4ths of them and think NO way no how will they do anything with this information.. and that's about right I think for every event maybe 10 % go on to make a go of it.. and some do really really well I have met many who are millionaires now because they listened to one of the gurus and off they went.. A lot of this also depends on where you live.. in some markets its really tough.. others were there are more homes than butts to put in them buying and selling or picking up rentals is much easier and the price points are more like being in the used car business.

    But there is denying there are many on the internet selling cheapo on line course of regurgitated stuff that is one just goes to other sources one does not need to pay for that kind of info.

    I went to one in Vegas it was a wholesaler from Ohio.. the guy was SO BAD  but he is popular.. I left in 30 minutes worse presenter I have ever seen.. but others were soaking it up.  But to be fair to him he also had the regulator from Ohio out there who is on BP who talks about the illegal way to wholesale and the legal way.. so that was value add. I did not stay to listen to him I had to go throw my lunch up after 30 minutes of the main guru.. LOL...

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Even with outdated information most people never act on the education they receive. There are those who can take the information validate it research it and then go out and do 20 deals. Then there are those who may be given the greatest information in the world and will never apply it  

     How true.  Most of the opportunities that the successful acted on, were there for everyone to take.  Some saw it, learned about it, and acted on it.  Some, never saw it in the first place.  It was usually too well hidden ...in plain sight.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    I've been "mentoring" this kid in houston for about a year. Answering 100s of questions and looking at deals. Didn't charge him. Told him I would start unless he only asked me about a deal he put under contract. Helped him nail a deal down. 12 unit. $31k/door. $500/month rents. He raised them to $650 with little work. Put in some cosmetic rehab. All in about $400k. He just put it under contract for sale at $560k. After all fees he'll make about $150k. I think his downpayment was $75k. Got some HML to help close it and fix it. Massive return on cash. Good for him. Anyway. Whole point: there is an avalanche of free and helpful info out there and people (like the people here) willing to help if you ask. The thing stoping people is almost never a lack of knowledge. But rather a lack of willingness to act. This kid now has some xp under his belt and $200k to play with. His next Prop will likely be a ~30 unit $1m deal.
  • John FranczykPro Member
    Wholesaler · Racine, WI · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 84 votes
    9y

    The issue I have with the Real Estate Investment Gurus is that they lure people into the industry with the promise that it's an easy way to make money. The reality is that it takes time and effort to develop a viable investment business. The REIG's who advertise on the radio and elsewhere could probably make more money if they developed a genuine real estate business, but it's easier for them to sell knowledge to other people than it is to do the hard work and to take the risks that are inherent in real estate.  I think that the best way to separate the wheat from the chaff here is to ask any REIG or other self-professed mentor to disclose the real estate deals that he or she has actually done. If they make more money selling knowledge than they do investing in real estate, then a new investor should stay away from them.  

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

     LOL.  All rectangles are NOT squares, but all squares ARE rectangles.

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    so make sure they actually made their money doing what they promise to teach you?

    Rather than making their money selling how to books?

    Hmmm have to ask my two Dads about this. 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

     LOL.  All rectangles are NOT squares, but all squares ARE rectangles.

    When we debated this, my quick Google search came up with an answer stating:

    Rectangle

    a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square.

    My sister, who teaches geometry responded, hmmm. Then she went on to state exactly what you said, which I believe is the correct answer based on my sister's qualifications in this area. Still it was a fun Facebook debate. Having Google on my side gave me way more credibility than it should have. 

    As Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    John Franczyk I think what you end up with is a Catch-22. Any new person is going to want to partner with a experienced REI that has made (and is making) a ton of money in real estate. It makes sense, partner with someone successful, especially if you're going to fork over a ton of cash. But if you're that ultra-successful investor you probably won't want 10 newbie students because you that maybe just 1 of them will do something meaningful and tangible. Unless their job is to extract education/course/coaching fees from the other 90% it probably is neither fun nor productive. Conversely, I wouldn't want to pay $1K, $5K, or $50K for a program put together by a mediocre investor. And if I thought any of those "tuition dollars" were going pay celebrity motivators (something tells me they don't speak for free) I wouldn't be too pleased. And if I look at the leaders of these programs and Google them only to find "freesportscar.com" in their past. Not the literal address but knowledgeable people will get the reference. Well, that tells me all I need to know. If I wanted a real estate system predicated on lead generation getting an car in my driveway I could hustle Mary Kay for a sweet pink Cadillac.
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

     LOL.  All rectangles are NOT squares, but all squares ARE rectangles.

    When we debated this, my quick Google search came up with an answer stating:

    Rectangle

    a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square.

    My sister, who teaches geometry responded, hmmm. Then she went on to state exactly what you said, which I believe is the correct answer based on my sister's qualifications in this area. Still it was a fun Facebook debate. Having Google on my side gave me way more credibility than it should have. 

    As Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

     Nothing like the internet to complicate the simple.  LOL.

    All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.  The difference is a square has 4 equal sides.  A rectangle has 2 pairs of parallel/equal sides.  Both have 4  equal angles.

    Square =  4 equal angles & 4 equal sides 

    Rectangle = 4 equal angles & 2 sets of equal sides where each set of sides is not equal to the other set of sides in length

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    Great response. I am in no way anti-education, quite the opposite. 

    Keep in mind, the more capital you have as an aspiring IT professional, (or in your case law professional etc..) doesn't directly increase to your likelihood of success in that field. Essentially, we don't pay our employers for a slot in their line up, our credentials/degree gets us a spot.

    With REI, you do have to pay your way in, in one way or another ,in order to get your first property. Keeping that in mind, the more money you're able to keep in your learning phase, the more likely you are to touch success once you decide to act --- Sure you can find some private lender who likes you to give you the money and somehow manage to get your first property(s) for free with none of your money, but let's be honest, that's extremely uncommon and definitely shouldn't be someone's game plan lol--- 

    A. If I go to Apple and say, "I know everything about software engineering, I took xyz courses, have xyz degree, and I can add value to your project by applying my expertise in xyz technology, I want this job." They would interview me and say "Great, you're hired" and then proceed to see if I can provide the value that they think I can. Based off of my credentials/degree.  

    B. If I go to a someone selling a home and say, "I know everything about REI, I took xyz course, and I know that this deal will be lucrative for both of us, I want this house". They would look and say "Great, it'll cost you $140,000 and it's yours". Now, I go to the bank and say the same thing. Bank says "Great, we just need 15% down payment and it's yours." Acquiring the deal is based off of my capital that I can eventually bring to the table somehow. 

    See the difference? 

    Now translating this to my original statement, keeping these two examples in mind, let's take the average adult interested in REI... It may have taken them 10 years to gather $25,000 of their money that they feel comfortable investing and putting toward their REI aspiration to change their life. The random deal above would cost them at a minimum $21k just to get (Not even including any work that may need to be done). If they started on their journey by paying $5-10k in courses they would now have only $15-20k and not be able to make the deal....However if they spent their starting out time on forums, podcasts, free books from the library, REIA meetings, online resources, etc.... they would still have around $25k and arguably more knowledge than what would come from a few seminars AND be able to secure the deal. (More initial capital, higher chance of success).

    I also posted this in the "Starting Out" section lol....but without being too drawn out, I'm not saying REI education isn't worth it. I'm saying when you're STARTING OUT and are bombarded with so much information, understanding that capital is the game, it is not wise to immediately jump in and start throwing your hard earned, potentially limited, capital at beginner courses BEFORE trying to utilize all of the FREE resources you have at your disposal.

    And trust me, if it were at all possible for me to be an IT professional without a degree and the money (even though I went on a full-ride scholarship) I would have definitely done it. But that's just not possible. Neither is it possible for law. No matter how many law articles you read, no one will hire you without your degree. However, It is possible to be a successful REI without spending large amounts of money on your initial education. So I'd like people starting out to be aware of that fact. Their money is very valuable, so it should be spent in the most effective of effective arenas, and I do not believe that beginner run-of-the-mill Facebook ad REI seminars qualify.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @John Franczyk:

    The issue I have with the Real Estate Investment Gurus is that they lure people into the industry with the promise that it's an easy way to make money. The reality is that it takes time and effort to develop a viable investment business. The REIG's who advertise on the radio and elsewhere could probably make more money if they developed a genuine real estate business, but it's easier for them to sell knowledge to other people than it is to do the hard work and to take the risks that are inherent in real estate.  I think that the best way to separate the wheat from the chaff here is to ask any REIG or other self-professed mentor to disclose the real estate deals that he or she has actually done. If they make more money selling knowledge than they do investing in real estate, then a new investor should stay away from them.  

     To be fair, the same could be said about most teachers.  "If you are so knowledgeable about business that you can teach me, why don't you make more money running a business vs. being a teacher"


    I do agree with you though that there are a LOT of RE "professionals" that want to teach you how it's done, when they've done very little themselves. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Evan Parker:

    @Account Closed

    Great response. I am in no way anti-education, quite the opposite. 

    Keep in mind, the more capital you have as an aspiring IT professional, (or in your case law professional etc..) doesn't directly increase to your likelihood of success in that field. Essentially, we don't pay our employers for a slot in their line up, our credentials/degree gets us a spot.

    With REI, you do have to pay your way in, in one way or another ,in order to get your first property. Keeping that in mind, the more money you're able to keep in your learning phase, the more likely you are to touch success once you decide to act --- Sure you can find some private lender who likes you to give you the money and somehow manage to get your first property(s) for free with none of your money, but let's be honest, that's extremely uncommon and definitely shouldn't be someone's game plan lol--- 

    A. If I go to Apple and say, "I know everything about software engineering, I took xyz courses, have xyz degree, and I can add value to your project by applying my expertise in xyz technology, I want this job." They would interview me and say "Great, you're hired" and then proceed to see if I can provide the value that they think I can. Based off of my credentials/degree.  

    B. If I go to a someone selling a home and say, "I know everything about REI, I took xyz course, and I know that this deal will be lucrative for both of us, I want this house". They would look and say "Great, it'll cost you $140,000 and it's yours". Now, I go to the bank and say the same thing. Bank says "Great, we just need 15% down payment and it's yours." Acquiring the deal is based off of my capital that I can eventually bring to the table somehow. 

    See the difference? 

    Now translating this to my original statement, keeping these two examples in mind, let's take the average adult interested in REI... It may have taken them 10 years to gather $25,000 of their money that they feel comfortable investing and putting toward their REI aspiration to change their life. The random deal above would cost them at a minimum $21k just to get (Not even including any work that may need to be done). If they started on their journey by paying $5-10k in courses they would now have only $15-20k and not be able to make the deal....However if they spent their starting out time on forums, podcasts, free books from the library, REIA meetings, online resources, etc.... they would still have around $25k and arguably more knowledge than what would come from a few seminars AND be able to secure the deal. (More initial capital, higher chance of success).

    I also posted this in the "Starting Out" section lol....but without being too drawn out, I'm not saying REI education isn't worth it. I'm saying when you're STARTING OUT and are bombarded with so much information, understanding that capital is the game, it is not wise to immediately jump in and start throwing your hard earned, potentially limited, capital at beginner courses BEFORE trying to utilize all of the FREE resources you have at your disposal.

    And trust me, if it were at all possible for me to be an IT professional without a degree and the money (even though I went on a full-ride scholarship) I would have definitely done it. But that's just not possible. Neither is it possible for law. No matter how many law articles you read, no one will hire you without your degree. However, It is possible to be a successful REI without spending large amounts of money on your initial education. So I'd like people starting out to be aware of that fact. Their money is very valuable, so it should be spent in the most effective of effective arenas, and I do not believe that beginner run-of-the-mill Facebook ad REI seminars qualify.

     Actually, that is where you are wrong. "Bank says "Great, we just need 15% down payment and it's yours." Acquiring the deal is based off of my capital that I can eventually bring to the table somehow."

    And your income and your credit. Your way has a lot more complications than just down payment.

    Instead, I buy all of my houses with low to zero down. I am usually into the house for $5,000 or $6,000 Tops. I don't use banks. I don't need 15% to 20% down ($40,000) that the bank wants. I'm not limited to the 4 houses that the bank will finance and the $40,000 down for every house. My houses average about $200,000.

    When I re-sell to a Tenant Buyer, a month later, I get $10,000 down to $25,000 down at least, with every house I buy. (I'm working on one now that will be $40,000 down into my pocket!) 

    I went to a seminar, I paid $1,500 total for two 3 day weekends of training, I paid a mentor $15,000 for a year's training and I learned how to make tons of money. I didn't learn this reading books or sitting in a University. That was a few years ago. A couple of million dollars later (so far) and I'm happy I chose to be trained. What I do doesn't include banks, it doesn't include scams, it does include knowing how to put the deal together and finding the right opportunities. That is what my mentor taught me.

    Is there something I said above that caused you to quote/tag me in your previous comment?

  • Investor · Silver Spring, MD · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 18 votes
    9y

    On a positive note, would love to hear about some of the good mentors and seminars to get valuable information from.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Cody L. Ironically (or not) my best professors in my MBA program were the ones that had made a ton of money and were doing the teaching thing in their later years.  The ones that weren't as impactful were usually the part-time professors that would print off copies of their resume during the break to take the interviews later in the week.  Now that's my n=1 sample size of one MBA program but it wouldn't surprise me if it holds true.  The mediocre professors were either still "attempting to do" or "had never done" and it showed.

    In my undergrad experience the most successful professors, with the most awards, patents, research grants, etc. were AWFUL lecturers.  It wasn't their focus, it's not what they were good at, they were incredibly talented in their field but the delivery piece was lacking.  The "teaching" was a means-to-an-end that enabled them to do what they wanted to do in terms of academic research.  Almost the epitome of "still doing" actually compromising their focus and ability to teach.

    But one of the core differences is that "real estate gurus" also have to be good at marketing, lead generation, branding, and creating an upsell program.  I've yet to see Harvard ask one of their Nobel laureate professors to run the admissions process and sell a "gold" coaching program...

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    That's very impressive. I would be extremely curious to understand how you buy $200k houses being only $5k into the deal. Are you talking tax liens? 

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