BEWARE of Scamming/Misleading People

BEWARE of Scamming/Misleading People

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes

Something that I've noticed, that really frustrated me, are the snake oil salesman in real estate investing. 

If i can help anyone avoid being lied to by fake individuals I will. 

I am an investor in the Indiana area, but what I want to bring to your attention are the Podcasts/YouTube Videos/Seminars/etc.. that target unsuspecting beginners with the promise that they'll reveal the secrets of their method, give you the same method, and watch you grow. But what they really do is fill your head with good feelings and excitement, give you nothing, and place a GIANT price tag on their "package they offer". I cannot stand folk who do this and who are able to get over on a lot of kind-hearted investors looking to learn. 

Things to lookout for

1. Someone who claims to be an amazing investor that can teach you things, and they constantly are advertising for you to join their mailing list. 

This may seem unassuming at first glance, but 9 times out of 10 you will give your email hoping to gather some great information and maybe event connect with others. However, what you usually get immediately are a bunch of emails asking soliciting expensive mentor packages or "business building templates" for you to follow and reach success. 

There are TOOOO many legitimate resources out here (BP being one of them to allow these predatory salesman take advantage of a new investor's lack of knowledge).

2. Free Book!! Beware of all offers from someone telling you their give you a free book. 

The books are almost always targeted at beginners for a reason. It isn't by accident that every time you see these offers, it seems to be just for the topic you feel like you need to know about before you can begin...think about it. 

This whole premise ties into #1 on the list, 9 times out of 10, the person offering a free eBook or even free hard-copy books use this terminology as a way to get people to...you guessed it.....sign up on their mailing list. 

3. Celebrity Seminars in your LOCAL area.....for FREE!! Just sign up now.

This.....this one really gets under my skin. First, because I expect more upstanding business practices from the celebrities/successful investors, I imagine them to have strong morals. Second, because they strategically target people based on their internet searches, browser cookies, etc.

The issue with this is, again, 9.9 times out of 10, the seminar is truly free, which is a good thing. However, the downfall is that, the person who you recognized on the advertisement....will NOT be at the seminar. They will likely send someone to represent them. "Well that still sounds cool", you might say. Except that person they sent to represent them, isn't actually representing them at all, that person was sent to SELL you an expensive package for a multi-day seminar where the ACTUAL businessperson you came to see, will be. (For real this time).

And it gets better. Since you showed up in person, they will "cut" the price for you!! Instead of $Xx,xxx for the seminar, now it's only going to be $X,xxx!!!! Aren't you lucky?! Better sign up now before it's too late cause it's only a one day offer!....except the fact that tomorrow they'll be in the city next to yours offering The. Exact. Same. Thing. 

"So where on Earth can I go to really learn?!"

Great Question! There are so many FREE/Low Costing and LEGITIMATE sources of information out there if you're aware of them. 

1. Get a membership at your local library and download the Overdrive app on iOS or Android. What this app does is partner with your local library and allows you to electronically check out eBooks and read them at your leisure. FOR FREE!!! Almost all of the great eBooks you hear about should be offered by your public library (if you're in a larger/medium city). 

2. PODCASTS! PODCASTS! PODCASTS! These are self explanatory, listen to podcasts and then listen again and then listen a 3rd time. Bigger Pockets (of course). Robert Kiyosaki. Everyday is Saturday. There are just so many. Go find some and listen until your heart is content. The only thing I would urge you to do is do a little bit of research on the people in these podcasts before you get too deep. And as always, don't take every single word you hear in a podcast as gospel. 

3. Your local REIA. This goes without saying almost. If you're interested in learning more and connecting with local investors. Join your REIA and make sure it's free (some REIAs charge). But I will say that, even with REIAs, take the words with a grain of salt and DO YOUR RESEARCH on the speakers who come (guest speakers will come sometimes). Also, it's worth pointing out that sometimes there are people selling mentor packages at REIA meetings as well, I urge you to focus on relationship building and networking.

Those are just the main 3 that I can think of that I've seen time and time again and even been taken by on a few occasions. It doesn't make you less of an investor to bite on these kinds of things, it just makes you someone who was very eager to learn and unfortunately made for a perfect target for people to prey on a bit. 

Feel free to share your thoughts on this, add other things to look out for, or ask me any questions! I'll help where I can. I just hope this helps even one person level-set their expectations and tread more cautiously in this exciting business. 

:) 

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Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
I've been "mentoring" this kid in houston for about a year. Answering 100s of questions and looking at deals. Didn't charge him. Told him I would start unless he only asked me about a deal he put under contract. Helped him nail a deal down. 12 unit. $31k/door. $500/month rents. He raised them to $650 with little work. Put in some cosmetic rehab. All in about $400k. He just put it under contract for sale at $560k. After all fees he'll make about $150k. I think his downpayment was $75k. Got some HML to help close it and fix it. Massive return on cash. Good for him. Anyway. Whole point: there is an avalanche of free and helpful info out there and people (like the people here) willing to help if you ask. The thing stoping people is almost never a lack of knowledge. But rather a lack of willingness to act. This kid now has some xp under his belt and $200k to play with. His next Prop will likely be a ~30 unit $1m deal.
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  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y

    @Cody L.

    Dang that's awesome, props to you for being able to help someone secure a deal of that magnitude. What made you decide to mentor that person for so long? Did you know them personally? 

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

     LOL.  All rectangles are NOT squares, but all squares ARE rectangles.

    When we debated this, my quick Google search came up with an answer stating:

    Rectangle

    a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square.

    My sister, who teaches geometry responded, hmmm. Then she went on to state exactly what you said, which I believe is the correct answer based on my sister's qualifications in this area. Still it was a fun Facebook debate. Having Google on my side gave me way more credibility than it should have. 

    As Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

     Nothing like the internet to complicate the simple.  LOL.

    All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.  The difference is a square has 4 equal sides.  A rectangle has 2 pairs of parallel/equal sides.  Both have 4  equal angles.

    Square =  4 equal angles & 4 equal sides 

    Rectangle = 4 equal angles & 2 sets of equal sides where each set of sides is not equal to the other set of sides in length

     A bonus geometry lesson for the BP followers. You are a man of diverse wisdom:)

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

    So what you are saying is the REI equivilant to,"all rectangles are squares"?

     I had a debate with my math teacher sister about this one.

     LOL.  All rectangles are NOT squares, but all squares ARE rectangles.

    When we debated this, my quick Google search came up with an answer stating:

    Rectangle

    a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square.

    My sister, who teaches geometry responded, hmmm. Then she went on to state exactly what you said, which I believe is the correct answer based on my sister's qualifications in this area. Still it was a fun Facebook debate. Having Google on my side gave me way more credibility than it should have. 

    As Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."

     Nothing like the internet to complicate the simple.  LOL.

    All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.  The difference is a square has 4 equal sides.  A rectangle has 2 pairs of parallel/equal sides.  Both have 4  equal angles.

    Square =  4 equal angles & 4 equal sides 

    Rectangle = 4 equal angles & 2 sets of equal sides where each set of sides is not equal to the other set of sides in length

     A bonus geometry lesson for the BP followers. You are a man of diverse wisdom:)

     LOL....or, I'm just putting the B.S. in BS I got from school to good work.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Evan Parker:

    @Cody L.

    Dang that's awesome, props to you for being able to help someone secure a deal of that magnitude. What made you decide to mentor that person for so long? Did you know them personally? 

     They tried to buy one of my properties a long time ago.  It didn't work out for them but I told them they need to get *something*.  That was like 5 years ago. Sadly they missed out on a ton of $ as the market in this sub area has been going up a lot (they'd have made a killing if they bought my property.  I paid $440k, sold it for $650k.  The guy that bought it from me when this guy didn't ended up just selling it for $1.1m)

    Anyway, every now and then he'll email me a question, which is fine.  But since they were so numerous I told him to wait till he HAD something (under contract), soon after he did, and he closed, and he sold it again soon after. 

  • Kansas City, KS · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    I just went to one of these last night in Kansas City, how ironic.
  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 184 posts · 204 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Quinton Jackson:

    I just went to one of these last night in Kansas City, how ironic.

     How was it?

  • Kansas City, KS · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    @EvanParker It actually had slot of great knowledge but like you said the stars didn't attend. There was someone there who represented them and they offered a 3day class for $2,000 If we signed up that night or $6,000 if we did it at a later date. In the end there was great info but I felt like they were pushing their agenda.....which I'm sure they were because people signing up for the class equals more money for them.
  • Eddie SalisburyPro Member
    Licensed Real Estate Broker · Albany, NY · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 5 votes
    9y
    All valid points Evan. Thanks for the post.
  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    9y
    Trust motives, not people.
  • Investor · Port Saint Lucie, FL · Member since 2016 · 85 posts · 10 votes
    9y
    Spot on!
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    9y
    Andrew Johnson Good points . People sometimes make it seem like being a guru ( at least a successful one ) is easy but if it were easy more people would do it . I once heard Robert Kiyosaki say that he doesn't write the best books ... but he writes best selling books . No doubt he is a master marketer and salesman. Like you said those that are super successful at something in real life aren't necessary the best teachers in the classroom .
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    9y
    Cody L. That's great that you helped him out like that and that it led to an awesome deal like that Have you ever told him about BP?
  • Dubois, IN · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 16 votes
    9y
    @Evan Parker .... thanks for the info, from another Hoosier!
  • Holland, MI · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    I am new to real estate investing, I will share the path I am taking. Of course this is the path for me and is no way the best for everyone. I have decided to use the biggerpockets YouTube videos/podcasts for initial learning. In a matter of fact I am listening to a podcast at the moment. My plan is once I finally get caught up I will focus on reading books that have been recommended starting with Rich Dad Poor Dad, and then the 4hour work week. Then narrow down the books to focus on my niche. As I soak up the knowledge I have a great mentor my significant other's father has been house hacking for along time and is willing to guide me through my numbers although my niche is different he can still help me with overall real estate investing. Using the knowledge I am constantly receiving for FREE through people on BP and people I know personally I am investing the goal is to close a 100% CoCR as I am using creative financing for the down payment. I may have vested money into my real estate to cover unexpected expenses once I have the money fully covered off of return from investment I will pay myself the money that I originally invested back. I added that to show that all the free info after 2weeks of specific real estate investing research I have put together a plan. I do have a much more flushed out business plan it isn't complete yet, I am going to finish it today I am super excited about that. I love business and pcs so business plans and numbers are things I love working with. I do not plan on using any gurus, I did once pay to see Dave Ramsey because I am a big fan of his. Outside of Dave Ramsey I haven't and don't plan on seeing another guru for cash. I am also going to school, and so is my significant other the idea is to use the income to cash flow my significant other's schooling. I am going to keep my 9-5 because it covers both the degrees I want because I do enjoy the formality of an institution and feel that both degrees I am seeking will add to my REI and potential for a day job as I want to enter the tech industry, but only part-time. So I value my education and my capital between the two starting off the capital is the most important for me. I don't believe in debt for depreciation which is why I am not going into debt for school, period. As more time passes the more outdated your education especially in IT. That is a long explanation so much for keeping it short.

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Evan Parker Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast called the internet. People get lured in because they believe in the dream. But at the same time, they want to work with someone who can help them get to their dream. In reality, it's up to the individual person to be successful. We make our own success. And the stories we hear from others? Merely a result of their experience, success and failures. Each person is different. And may have different outcomes when it comes to investing in real estate. 

  • Realtor · Celebration, FL · Member since 2013 · 109 posts · 34 votes
    9y

    Every industry has those that are greedy and scam people.  I think real estate is a great vehicle for scammers, because of the ease of entry into the business.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    I think people inherently want to help others but you also have to be a great steward of your time as well.

    I get asked free stuff all the time with commercial real estate. Sometimes it leads to business and other times it does not. A basic question is fine but if it goes to more than that and someone wants to learn things A to Z I do not have time for that if I cannot monetize my time.

    It is like an attorney once told me they will give a little free (pillow talk) but after that have to be paid for their time.

    Just like everyone else I also ask some friends and colleagues that are busy for their opinion and knowledge on certain things. These are commercial real estate developers with 35 to over 40 years experience so I am very respectful of their time. Often as they get older they see themselves in younger ones ( I am 42 currently) and want to help out.

    I can tell you in my Facebook feed with friends and family I must see about 5 ads a day from all these people talking about flipping residential and get rich blah,blah,blah.

    It must be just me but I enjoy putting deals together for myself and having clients buy deals. Some people it seems do not like that as much and want to sell people constantly on systems that they say might make them successful.

    What always gets me is that people go to these so called (free events..lol) and think this famous person who is making millions is going to talk to them  1 on 1 for days on end to help them become a millionaire all for the low price of 299 after the or at the seminar ( but wait there's more!).

    After the 299 that is just the first step and then you need to up that credit card to REALLY have a chance at success and spend thousands, maybe tens of thousands to get ahead.

    It's easy to see why a majority of society stays poor. They make knee jerk, feel amazing in the moment decisions that bring months or years of loss.   

    I have seen over decades and likely will be this way forever that their truly is a ( a sucker born every second ). 

    It seems the main benefit for guru's with the seminars is to expand their networks so hopefully one of the ants (newbies) actually stumbles upon a great deal the guru can buy or partner on.

    Maybe one day I will teach all the time but in my career it is not where I am focused on right now.   

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 12 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Upshur:

    On a positive note, would love to hear about some of the good mentors and seminars to get valuable information from.

     +1

  • Investor · new york, NJ · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    I am looking for a friendly long-distance mentor also - I am looking Ct, upstate NY and out in Indiana too...?

  • Investor · new york, NJ · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    Hey Joel - what happened to the pay it forward attitude?!?

  • Investor · new york, NJ · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    Rachel - you sound cynical beyond your years but you may be right!

  • Rental Property Investor · Denver · Member since 2017 · 121 posts · 121 votes
    9y
    There's a lot of people out there with crap information that think it's worth people paying to hear/read. The most ill ever pay is $20 and that's for a book I've gotten a legitimate recommendation for. Pretty much anything out there will be the same info repackaged a few different ways. Use free resources like BP and some of the better blogs/podcasts and you'll get all the information you need to start out.
  • Investor · new york, NJ · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    i think its

    "all squares are rectangles" - it doesnt work the otherway:)

  • Investor · new york, NJ · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    I spent money and time on an architectural education - made me no money,

    also on an MBA - made me no money an a few other things that made me no money - but I think the fact that you Joe are so upset about this makes me want to ask - what are you selling?

    there are people that will tell you it is worth it to pay double to go to Harvard and others who will argue that it isnt - there is no one answer - but theseschools do publish metrics so you yourself can compare them on some "objective" basis do these RE courses do the same?

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