Bad First Investment - Newbie Beware

Bad First Investment - Newbie Beware

Winnipeg, Manitoba · Member since 2017 · 57 posts · 37 votes

My very first deal:

Purchase price: $205,000

Down payment: 11% + 2% closing costs

House Type: Single Family

Sqft: 678 (WHAT? This isn't even a tight market nor a great neighbourhood. How did I get sold this crap lol)

Location: Winnipeg, Canada

How it all started:

My wife and I wanted to get our own home after living with parents and being able to save considerable amounts of money.

At about that time, I started listening to BP and seeing how all of these investors were succeeding with real estate. I almost immediately caught the real estate bug.

I found an agent who prided herself as being 'one of the best'. 

That said, she let us know that she would NOT write lowball offers or negotiate aggressively below the fair market value of a property.

At this point newbies, thank the realtor for their time, go to your local real estate facebook group, and say 'I need recommendations for an investor-friendly realtor to help negotiate aggressively and find me cashflowing investment properties'.

Look at a few of the recommendations you get, contact the realtors, and ask them to give you examples of live deals they've done, when it occurred, and what the purchase price, rehab numbers, cashflow numbers, and after repair value was. If you like what you hear, try them out.

Moving on... we bought the 678sqft home with scratched up hardwood floors, an old kitchen and bathroom, old rugs in the basement, and a green second bathroom in the basement (yes, its green).

This was a great home for just my wife and I. We didn't need much space, we rarely went to the basement, and all was great in the world.

So what's the problem Chibuzor? Life is great, the home is great, right?

WRONG.

Then came the time for us to buy another home and rent out our 678sqft home.

Every single tenant that came in complained about the small size, the narrow kitchen space leading to the basement, the old kitchen layout and style, the old rugs in the basement, etc.

Our plan was to use the home as an Airbnb since it was 5 minutes from the airport.

In reality, we could not use the house as an Airbnb As-is. We had to put 20k in to update the house, most of which we will never get back as equity because the homes in the area have a price cap.

Quick summary of why this was a bad investment:

1. Bought too high, ZERO equity (negative equity really)

2. House is in bad aesthetic condition ( Cannot be used as a regular rental or Airbnb without substantial work done)

3. House does not cashflow by itself. At the price we bought it for, i.e. $205,000, with rents being ~$1100 max in the area, and the house being so small, even if we got $1100 for the property, we would be breaking even on our Mortgage and Property Tax, and would have to pay from our pockets if any repairs need to be made.

For next time (Note: we already bought our second home the exact same way, and only realized our mistake when trying to rent out the first. Someone please help me take out emotions from this real estate journey):

1. I will take a moment to define what I consider to be an acceptable purchase price, equity, and cashflow in my area

2. I will go on my local facebook real estate group and ask for an investor-friendly agent, interview them, find one I like, and tell them my criteria

3. I will tell everyone I meet at local real estate events what I am looking for (Make sure you are pre-approved and can act on a deal, if not people wont trust you or refer deals to you if you cannot close deals)

4. Done

Hope this was helpful. I appreciate any comments.

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Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Luke Ski:

This here gets better with each additional post. TWO HIGH paying jobs can't cover renovation of  678 sq ft home ??? ....and no savings??? I guess high paying jobs in Canada ain't that high after all.

Lots of hate and judgment on an Investor Basics thread.  He's taking action and he's opening himself up.  Let's go after the bad guys instead.

See this reply in the discussion

59 Replies

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  • Real estate investor · Alabaster, AL · Member since 2014 · 94 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    @Chibuzor Alumba

    Thanks for your post. You pointed great lessons learnt not just for you but will be beneficial for the newbies. It can only get better moving forward. I just got rid of a second bad investment home with some drainage issues. I am smarter - unfortunately its in hind sight. Best wishes

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    Atleast you see that you need to change and get things on coarse . That’s a good step . It’s not easy to admit when we screw up in life and yes you really screwed up . Learn how to analyze and follow the 1% rule

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Bobby Shell hey , what is a good age for:

    Roof/AC/Furnace/Sump Pump - if the age is not good, get the price down, you will pay.

  • New to Real Estate · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Chibuzor Alumba I'm just starting my REI journey and I really appreciate you sharing this. Based on what I've been reading, pretty much everyone has challenges with their first investment and it sounds like you've learned some great lessons from it.

    Chalk it up to the"cost of admission" for entering the REI game and keep on going!

    Thanks again for sharing and good luck with you future investments!

  • Columbia, MD · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 169 votes
    7y

    This here gets better with each additional post. TWO HIGH paying jobs can't cover renovation of  678 sq ft home ??? ....and no savings??? I guess high paying jobs in Canada ain't that high after all.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Luke Ski:

    This here gets better with each additional post. TWO HIGH paying jobs can't cover renovation of  678 sq ft home ??? ....and no savings??? I guess high paying jobs in Canada ain't that high after all.

    Lots of hate and judgment on an Investor Basics thread.  He's taking action and he's opening himself up.  Let's go after the bad guys instead.

  • New to Real Estate · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    @Mike Dymski Exactly! I just skim over the all the hater reply’s.. they offer nothing to the discussion.. but luckily there are also plenty of successful pros willing to discuss and help the inexperienced. Great Thanks to all the Helpful pros.

  • Columbia, MD · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 169 votes
    7y

    Cry me a river. Calling people out on their bs has zero to do with hate and a lot to do with reading their post carefully and thinking about the stuff they wrote. When you post on forum you may get some good with some ugly and just because someone got offended does not mean that they are right. Dude wrote that he has 2 high paying jobs but can’t afford $5k rehab and now y’all mad at me? 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Luke Ski:

    Cry me a river. Calling people out on their bs has zero to do with hate and a lot to do with reading their post carefully and thinking about the stuff they wrote. When you post on forum you may get some good with some ugly and just because someone got offended does not mean that they are right. Dude wrote that he has 2 high paying jobs but can’t afford $5k rehab and now y’all mad at me? 

     Very true, however, as hard as I looked, through this thread, I can't seem to find anywhere where you contributed anything other than "Calling people out..." .

    I have no problem "calling people out", but anyone can find fault.  Come back when you can add "solutions".

  • Insurance Agent · Bronx, NY · Member since 2017 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Chibuzor Alumba

    This experience seems like it was hell, but you’ve learned some expensive lessons. The agent though, she cannot tell you what she’s not going to do as she has a fiduciary responsibility to you.

    Hopefully you have better planning and do better due diligence in the future

  • Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2018 · 165 posts · 127 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Amedeo M.:

    @Bobby Shell hey , what is a good age for:

    Roof/AC/Furnace/Sump Pump - if the age is not good, get the price down, you will pay.

    Roof's on average 20-30 years depending on the type. Read more here: https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2015/01/06/how-long-can-you-expect-your-roof-or-fridge-to-last

    The AC should last about 10-15 years. My place is in Florida, its hot! I am assuming it will last 10 years in my numbers.

    Furnace 15-20 years.

    Sump Pumps about 10 years 

  • Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2018 · 165 posts · 127 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Luke Ski:

    Cry me a river. Calling people out on their bs has zero to do with hate and a lot to do with reading their post carefully and thinking about the stuff they wrote. When you post on forum you may get some good with some ugly and just because someone got offended does not mean that they are right. Dude wrote that he has 2 high paying jobs but can’t afford $5k rehab and now y’all mad at me? 

    I think the guy is looking for encouragement and for you to add value, not play the "you don't have money in order". That doesn't help or add value. 

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Bobby Shell:
    Originally posted by @Amedeo M.:

    @Bobby Shell hey , what is a good age for:

    Roof/AC/Furnace/Sump Pump - if the age is not good, get the price down, you will pay.

    Roof's on average 20-30 years depending on the type. Read more here: https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2015/01/06/how-long-can-you-expect-your-roof-or-fridge-to-last

    The AC should last about 10-15 years. My place is in Florida, its hot! I am assuming it will last 10 years in my numbers.

    Furnace 15-20 years.

    Sump Pumps about 10 years 

     All those numbers depend greatly on the geographic location.  

    A roof in Buffalo isn't the same as in Florida, or Michigan.

    A/C in Florida isn't the same as it is in Maine.

    Furnaces in Michigan are different than they are in Arizona (do they have furnaces in Arizona?).

    Therefor, I don't think you can give any general ranges for any of these items.

    It also depends on the quality of the item that was installed in the first place...and who did the installation.

    On top of that, items like furnaces, which demand maintenance (changing filters regularly) will have a shorter "shelf life" in rentals since tenants are notorious for not maintaining them.  I can't tell you how many times I've gotten frantic calls from tenants telling me they have no heat...and when I get there, all I had to do was change the filter (which was disgusting).  What's worse, I have "changing the furnace filter every 6 months" as a responsibility of my tenants...and written in my lease agreements.

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 36 votes
    7y
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Chibuzor Alumba

    We all have made questionable deals early in our careers.   Not all our education comes from school, but that does not make it less expensive ;-)

    At just under 700sqft - is this one of the post-war bungalows, originally with an unfinished basement,  built for/by returning solders or the PPCLI {in which part of Winnipeg is is located}?

    We have many of those and the 1.5 story "Jonny Houses"/Dobies here as well.   If you are not too far from the University or a community college, they can make descent 3-5 bedroom (2-up, 2-3 in the basement, plus second bathroom} student house.    As a student house, you will fetch more rent ($400 - $500 / rm depending on who's paying the utilities) and, while that will still not make this a good deal, the house may carry itself until you have the opportunity for resale. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Joe Villeneuve got points! Thank you for the tips

  • Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Excitement and emotions get the best of us sometimes. After listening to BRRRR podcasts I jumped on my second property with that in mind, but I didn't do my homework. Although it turned out to be a good investment regardless, I would have approached it differently knowing what I know now. Glad you are being positive of the outcome, keep your head up and do your homework on the next one!

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Bobby Shell it would be very interesting to see this list as I have just begun renovating my first real estate investment. A single family 1100sq ft home. Any pointers would be much appreciated thanks!!

  • Winnipeg, Manitoba · Member since 2017 · 57 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Roy N. Hi Roy, thanks for the addition.

    The house is around the St James area.

  • Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    7y

    Although I agree something about all this doesnt add up I will add a few ideas that might help.

    Can you find any other ways for the property to generate income? Perhaps rent a few parking spaces? Rent a shed or even 2 to someone for some storage?

    Allow a pet for extra rent?

    Your estimates for floor refinishing seems outrageous. I'm not familiar with your area but in my expensive area (NY) you can refinish floors from $1.75-$2.50 per foot.

    I own a 2BR 600sf rental that I recently completely remodeled and the cost was about 25k. You should be able to get your place rent ready for a lot less.

    Most tenants are looking for a clean place that functions well. An outdated bathroom shouldnt be an issue.

    Take a good few hours and sit and write down every possible option you have to remedy the situation. Then work through each option and pick the option that serves you and your goals best.

    Sometimes it's better to just dump and sell. Sometimes it's worth hanging on even if your just breaking even

  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    7y
    @Chibuzor Alumba Listen, you did what you did. You learned. But I want to say that I have a great deal of respect to write this and admit it. Everybody likes to post and share victories. Not too many come here to share the humiliation of a big financial face-plant like this. Good luck with it.
  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    7y
    @Luke Ski I have lost money on my first flip. And I shared it. And it wasn't fun. Maybe you would like to criticize me and my financial position as well? Would you care to share where you are at on your journey to financial freedom? Looks like you've made about 10 posts... probably you are busy making offers?
  • Mike TerryPro Member
    Investor · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2015 · 292 posts · 278 votes
    7y

    @Chibuzor Alumba I am sorry to hear about your experience.  We have all made nmistakes in our early investments.  I got myself in a three way partnership with a less than scruplous wholesaler.  My partner and I eventually pulled out losing our earnest money.  Lesson learned carefully vet the people you are dealing with and if your gut tells you that you may be dealing with a scumbag... You probably are.  

    Bigger pockets is highly tilted toward investing in the USA.  I am a Canadian living here and I would love to invest in Canada at some point, but it is not a very "mom and pop" investor friendly place.  I would suggest you read Garth Turner's blog https://greaterfool.ca It does not pull any punches about the financial state of the the Canadian real estate market.  Best of luck.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chibuzor Alumba:

    @Roy N. Hi Roy, thanks for the addition.

    The house is around the St James area.

     A little far from the University.

    However, depending which end of St. James you are in, there are lots of folks who work at the Airport or CFB Winnipeg .... I think there still may be a flight school as well.  When I was a kid we were down by Polo Park for a short bit, (but that was in the 60s).   Other parts of St. James have gotten a little rough over the years and you have the reserve bordering one end.

    @Mike Terry   - Garth Turner has been sounding the horn for over a decade.   In certain markets (the Golden Horseshoe, BC lower mainland) his warnings could be given some credence.   Here on the East Cost, he's best read with a cup of coffee and a lick of salt.  The fire is not as hot .... though are seeing more and more money from away turning up and overpaying for things.

  • Specialist · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 900 posts · 392 votes
    7y

    You broke most of the rules, buying too small, bad layout, paying too much, not getting at least 1% rental, etc. Though you are still alive and hopefully you will learn from these lessons. Have you started on #2 yet? And we use Thumbtack.com to find most if not all of our subcontractors in state and out of state. Good luck getting that out of the way, and hopefully it is not going to end your career before it starts...

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