Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Is it just me, or has the number of mentor/coach/guru threads pick up tenfold over the past month or so?
Anyway, there are clearly a lot of people who are just starting out and are looking for help to get started. I've been pretty vocal about the fact that -- while there is nothing wrong with paying for a coach -- there are other, less costly avenues that can be just as, or more, fruitful for budding investors.
I've mentored a few other up-and-coming investors in the past (75% success ratio), but with the new family, I haven't had much time the past year or two. I'm thinking I might be ready again over the next few months...
I wanted to find out if any of the more seasoned investors here on BP may be interested in putting together a little "competition," where a bunch of us each takes on one new mentoring student for a few months and coaches them through a deal. We could even share mentoring tips, educational materials, etc. to make it easier for each of us and our students.
Perhaps even a larger group mentoring session on a monthly basis by phone or Skype, in addition to the local 1:1 coaching.
Any BP folks interested in potentially joining me in taking on a new student in 2013?
Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Oh yes, very interested. I coached 4 newbies through their first wholesale deal last year, and I'd like to double that this year. I haven't charged for the coaching per se, I only charged for the marketing (which they would need to do anyway, and I needed at least a little skin in the game to avoid time wasters) and then coached them step by step on how to use it. Only 1 was local, the others were scattered from Denver to Florida.
I would be completely open to a group that shares tips and educational materials...and in effect (I think) would help me reach more people. I'm also down with the competition angle. One of my students netted 34k off their very first wholesale deal, and I've been strutting around like a peacock ever since.
Great idea Jason, I'd love to be a part of it. (I'd @mention you, but can't on my phone. Maybe you have your name in your keyword alerts... " J. Scott"
Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes
13y
In another recent post regarding a mentorship program where the program requires $5k up front from the student (and after splitting 5 deals with the mentor, the student gets the initial $5k returned), the major theme of the responses was “RUN! GURU!”
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/82892-evaluate-this-mentorship-deal
I find it interesting that in this thread the regular BP posters on here who may offer a mentorship are suggesting that the students/mentees be motivated and show it by having ‘some skin in the game.’ I guess the big time gurus also determine a student’s motivation by the money they can offer up…
Michael Quarles Im telling you...lets team up on "subject 2" and win this competition.... :-)
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Kenneth E.:
I find it interesting that in this thread the regular BP posters on here who may offer a mentorship are suggesting that the students/mentees be motivated and show it by having ‘some skin in the game.’ I guess the big time gurus also determine a student’s motivation by the money they can offer up…
Kenneth E. -
I can't speak for others, but in my opinion, there's a big difference between:
1. I want you to give me money to teach you how to do this; and
2. I want you to have some vested interest in the process and the ability to fund your own deals before I offer my services to you for FREE.
For #1, the mentor/coach is looking to profit. For #2, the mentor is just looking to ensure that he is not wasting his time.
These seem very different to me...am I wrong about that?
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y
Kenneth, skin on the game yes, but splitting first 5 deals is almost all the skin on top of $5k. Also, gurus are not asking for money so mentee can have skin in the game, they do it to fleece money from said mentee, nothing more elaborate than that.
Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
I'd be willing to do the mentoring here in Chicago. I'm somewhat familiar with most of the suburbs. My stuff is mainly in the far south and southwest suburbs.
Email works great for me. I'm not much of a phone person. But for someone new, I can definitely help answer the basic questions (i.e where do i find the deals, is it a good deal? what do I do for financing? etc). And can at least help point people in the right direction.
My suggestion for how this could be done using BP.
Use the forums. Create a forum for mentoring --> mentoring contest #1.
Any mentor that wants to volunteer their time can create a thread in the forum. And anybody that wants to take them up on their offer just needs to post something to that mentor's thread. The posts should be restricted to the mentor and the other individual(s) to help keep it clean. But that sole thread would continue and would be a record of all the questions/answers and suggestions the mentee/mentor asks/provides.
It would be up to the mentor and/or mentee to help keep communications up to date on the forum. So if they do exchange emails or phone calls separetely, the summary of the conversation/exchange could be captured and posted for BP.
Or maybe the email exchange could just be copied.
One last thing. The mentor would post in their thread how many people they would want to help. I'd say 1 or 2 should be the most. Anything more than that becomes a job. :-)
Rental Property Investor · Lompoc, CA · Member since 2010 · 197 posts · 183 votes
13y
I can see both sides of the story here. As a mentor I work hard to make sure that I am giving the student what works because I am using it on a regular basis. With that said, the time that is put into a student, the cost of driving to them and working with them on a weekend when one could be working a real estate deal and making more than what the student paid is in itself a whole another story. On the other side a new person is afraid to spend money and not know what he or she will get in return. I would advise anyone to check the person out on facebook and well as any other areas to see what they have done and who they did it with. If they don't do deal on a regular basis then don't pay for someone the is a teacher of something they have never done. I only take a few students each year because I want to do deals at the same time and when I have more the seven I feel that all my time is there and not in the market I am training on. What I would tell anyone looking for a mentor is to do your homework just like buying a property.. Then ask tons of questions and do the work once you find a good one..It will make all the difference in the world...
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
No one from my area posted, but i'd love to work with or just strategize with someone from Detroit metro. I have 6 rentals and have two short sale offers in the works right now.
Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, MN · Member since 2010 · 511 posts · 92 votes
13y
Great idea J. Thats where I think a lot of new investors get stuck is trying to learn the ropes while shelling out the bucks for a mentor that drains them.
Investor · SE Wisconsin/NE Illinois · Member since 2012 · 109 posts · 57 votes
13y
this sounds very interesting.... I would love to even get some tips from those who have done REI before, especially considering that mentors would be able to provide advice specific to our area and not general guidelines that would apply nationally.
Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
13y
I would love to find a mentor in the Philadelphia area. I've had rentals in the past and some other various RE experience but I'd love to learn wholesaling or flipping from someone that has done it in my local market and in this economy. I'm amazed at the generosity on this site!!!
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
13y
Folks - If you're looking for a mentor, the place to post that is in the Marketplace. Please stop soliciting mentors here. This thread is so these guys who are willing to take on mentees can organize. If they decide to seek out students, which is what they appear to be doing, pay attention and you'll find out. When they make an announcement, jump in. Until then, please abide by our rules about solicitations in discussion areas.
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y
I need a mentor, I want to learn investing, I want to start right away. Thanks.
J/K Joshua Dorkin - So far, it appears we have several BP members who are proven investors with track records willing to provide mentorship in some type of group effort that would focus on the trainee's specific market. What a fantatstic idea (in case i did not reiterate that before).
Looking forward to hearing from J on how he plans to structure this and how we will seek out the worthy mentees.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
Thanks everyone for the great feedback...let's see if we can get some momentum here...
Here are the people who sound as if they might be interested in taking on a mentee (or they made a joke and I'm volunteering them):
Mike H.
Michael Quarles
Dell Schlabach
James Vermillion
Jon Klaus
Will Barnard
Jerry Puckett
Ben Leybovich
Michael Galloway
Chris Clothier (still planning to contact you to get your ideas!)
Keith Boley
George P.
Dawn A.
For next step, how about if each of those above who are interested (or anyone else who wants to mentor), send me the following three pieces of information:
1. Your Specialty (Rehabbing, Wholesaling, Landlording, etc) -- It can be more than one
2. Your location
3. Do you want someone local or are you willing to mentor long-distance?
From there, we can figure out the next steps...and maybe Chris Clothier will have some good ideas on where to take this...
Rehabber · Albuquerque, NM - New Mexico · Member since 2011 · 283 posts · 38 votes
13y
Just one small thought, J Scott, I think it'd be fun if you announced the results at the 2013 Summit. Maybe that's something you could build on... Just a though...
Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
I think j Scott has a big project on his hands. Teaching someone to fish is easy. Teaching them to get up before the sun to prepare to fish isn't.
Not to be negative. If he finds mentees willing to do what's asked when asked without question and then have the resource of time and money great. More than great. Friggin fantastic.
The reality is that most will fail. Not because they want to or can't accomplish the task but because the reality of real estate investing will present itself.
This great business is more about desire and will than knowledge. Heck I bet most of J's list never had a mentor.
As for the constant ridicule of mentors who charge. Why. Who expects anything for free? And if you do you're certainly in the wrong business.
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
As for the constant ridicule of mentors who charge. Why. Who expects anything for free?
I agree Michael, any ridicule I spewed was only at the gurus who overcharge, under deliver, and take advantage of the deperate. Certyainly getting paid for providing education is not wrong, otherwise we would not have any Universities!
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Will Barnard:
Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
As for the constant ridicule of mentors who charge. Why. Who expects anything for free?
I agree Michael, any ridicule I spewed was only at the gurus who overcharge, under deliver, and take advantage of the deperate. Certyainly getting paid for providing education is not wrong, otherwise we would not have any Universities!
"If I could show you how to make well into the 6 figures within 12-24 months, what would that be worth to you?" Not all that different than, "if I paid you all cash within 21 days, what is the lowest you would take for your house?"
Investor · Colleyville, TX · Member since 2012 · 70 posts · 7 votes
13y
@J Scott This is a great idea and I am sure with having the right people involved it will be very successful. Having said that, the key to success is to make sure you have a qualification process before students are given the green light. Nonetheless a great idea!
Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
J Scott.
What are your qualifications if a mentor? I think they're more important than the mentee. Maybe grammar and spelling cuz I'm horrible at it.
1) how many house purchases for profit have they personally accomplished? 100 minimum seems reasonable.
2) how many years buying real estate? 10 seems right
3) how many have they mentored. I am thinking at least 100 as a minimum.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
I think j Scott has a big project on his hands. Teaching someone to fish is easy. Teaching them to get up before the sun to prepare to fish isn't.
I've mentored a lot in the business world and a little in the real estate world. I figured it would be the same, but I've found that most potential RE mentees don't get past step one. That's actually a good thing, as the ones who do get past step one are probably the cream of the crop... :)
When I put this thread up, my thought process was, "Okay, I think I'm ready to try this mentoring thing again. I wonder if anyone wants to share in my potential successes and failures." I didn't expect as much response as I've gotten here, but we'll figure it out!
As for the constant ridicule of mentors who charge. Why. Who expects anything for free? And if you do you're certainly in the wrong business.
Michael Quarles -
I'm with Will in that I tend to generalize way to much when it comes to gurus/coaching. I have absolutely no problem with the concept of paid coaching...my problem is that it *seems* like 99% of the paid coaches out there care *only* about the money...which will translate into poor teaching.
I know guys like you, Chris Clothier's family and plenty of others here do paid coaching. But, I also see you guys giving away your time, energy and knowledge freely to anyone who asks. That puts all you guys in a completely different category than the rest (in my opinion). So, if my generalizing tends to encompass you guys as well, I apologize. For you guys, it's about a lot more than the money, and we all respect that.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Michael Quarles:
J Scott.
What are your qualifications if a mentor? I think they're more important than the mentee. Maybe grammar and spelling cuz I'm horrible at it.
1) how many house purchases for profit have they personally accomplished? 100 minimum seems reasonable.
2) how many years buying real estate? 10 seems right
3) how many have they mentored. I am thinking at least 100 as a minimum.
As I mentioned above, I've done a lot of corporate mentoring, and what I've learned is that being a good mentor is a lot more about being available, being patient and knowing how to direct the mentee to the information he needs. It's less about having a great resume and tons of experience.
I mentored my first person when I was about 3 years out of college -- I felt like an idiot who wasn't qualified to teach anything, but my mentor at the time (who still is my mentor, actually) insisted that I do it. I think my mentee learned a lot; I'm positive I learned a lot more. It was a win/win.
The biggest thing I learned (and what I think my mentor wanted to teach me) is that giving back isn't something you do only after you make it; giving back is something you do always. There is always someone who knows less than you about something, so there's always an opportunity to be helping others while you're helping yourself. That's why I try to give back...not because I'm nice, but because I'm a selfish a**hole who is just trying to improve my skills... ;-)
You're a teacher, so I'm quite certain that you realize that it requires more knowledge to teach something than to just do that same thing. That's why mentoring is so valuable -- it requires you to learn in order to be successful.
Personally, if I were going to pay a coach to learn real estate, I'd want everything you mention above (again, part of the reason most coaches are worthless in my opinion, as most don't fit that criteria). But, if someone is to volunteer their time and energy to help me, my only criteria are that that they know at least a little more than I do and that they are willing to help me figure out how to succeed even if they have to learn along the way as well.
I have people tell me all the time how valuable my blog has been to their learning curve in real estate. If you think about it, I started writing my blog months before I made my first investment and the first several years of my blog pretty much just discussed my mistakes and my learning from my mistakes. I had very little knowledge, but the information I provided was (and still is) valuable to people because I had a little more than knowledge than they have and the information I provided helped them learn though the process with me.
Personally, I think I would have made a better real estate mentor 3 years ago than I would today, as several years ago I had a much fresher understanding of how little I knew. Today, some basic things seem so obvious that I forget that the basic things probably aren't as basic as I think they are.
I'm nowhere near meeting your criteria above, and I have a feeling that by the time I get there, I'll probably be a much worse mentor, as I'll have lost a lot of the empathy for brand new investors.
I guess that's my long way of saying that, in my opinion, there should be absolutely no criteria for someone being a mentor. With that is a disclaimer to all mentees that you should never trust your mentor (or coach/teacher) blindly.