Petition for BP to Discontinue Wholesaling Discussions...

Most Popular Reply

Dan Oliver
Residential Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 139 posts · 106 votes
11y

I'm not sure why I'm even responding to this insulting post but since you've hit a nerve, I'm going to try.  Wholesales and wholesalers are an intricate part for many investors.  Considering we move 30-50 properties a month to our investors may show that wholesalers play an important role for many investors.  We work to provide quality investments and take over  all the hard work and time it takes to acquire properties for our investors that don't have the time, desire or knowledge to accomplish.  Sure, there are bad seeds out there in the wholesale world, but there are bad seeds in every aspect of business.  I find BP to be an incredible resource for me as an investor and a wholesaler.  For you to want to begin a petition to rid posts and forums about a particular side of investing seems selfish and a little "one sided".  I can only assume you've had a bad experience, but to burn the industry as a whole really doesn't provide much credibility on your part.

60Reply
See this reply in the discussion

311 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Frank Iglesias:

    I'll bite and chime in again...

    1) I have never found anything about wholesaling evil any more than Best Buy marking up that $1.00 cable and selling it for $10 to us.  That's a huge mark up.  Imagine getting that on a piece of property.  :-D   On a bigger level, maybe the TV they sell us.  Or how about banks getting paid to sell our mortgage to someone else?  A new bank that maybe we didn't like as much as the last mortgagee as an example.  We don't cry about that.  Wholesaling exists in lots of industries.  It will be evil when Buy Low, Sell High is dubbed evil.

    2) Atlanta has 20k agents or more so we certainly are not lacking in agents here.  Every market is different true but I find there are not many wholesalers in smaller markets (under 5000) anyway.  Then again, there are thousands of markets in this country so I can't really speak to that with accuracy.

    3) I love educating newer wholesalers that are willing to grow.  I have made money with them.  I congratulate them when they get a good deal.  I also sometimes need to sell stuff off as well that I buy because maybe a better opportunity comes along and the current one works for others.

    The wholesaling concept isn't going anywhere and there is no reason for it to go anywhere.  There is a lot of value.  We simply have to put in the effort to find the people to get it with.  If one doesn't want to put it in, that's fine too.  But let's respect the people making it happen with integrity and quality.  I think every investor trying to do the right thing is due that.  Nobody's perfect.  Let's continue to assist each other instead of shooting each other down.  Simply no need for it.

     I wish I could have voted more than once here.

    0Reply
  • Jon Mason
    Rental Property Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 29 votes
    11y

    I think it's funny to hear "real" investors say that if they have too much going on they'll occasionally wholesale a deal and they feel they're justified in doing so, but if you're a wholesaler and you do this repeatedly, you're clearly morally bankrupt.

    Try cheating on your wife and using that logic to explain your actions...."But honey, I only cheat on you occasionally, it would be totally understandable for you to be upset if I were doing it more often..."  (don't try this at home) ;)

    6Reply
  • Karl Krentzel
    Real Estate Broker · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2012 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Fragassi:
    Hey toots, (The original poster) you've obviously been had by a wholesaler.

    You want us rational and intelligent investors to stop discussing a certain method of investing because you don't like it? Oh, poor baby.

    If you got burned by a wholesaler, that's YOUR fault, not his or ours. You were beat by someone smarter and more determined than you.

    Had you got off the couch and put the work in yourself, you would have found the deals yourself and make lots of money.

    Don't blame others for your downfalls in life, that won't get you anywhere.

    1Reply
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jon Mason:

    I think it's funny to hear "real" investors say that if they have too much going on they'll occasionally wholesale a deal and they feel they're justified in doing so, but if you're a wholesaler and you do this repeatedly, you're clearly morally bankrupt.

    Try cheating on your wife and using that logic to explain your actions...."But honey, I only cheat on you occasionally, it would be totally understandable for you to be upset if I were doing it more often..."  (don't try this at home) ;)

     Interesting analogy.  Don't see the connection though.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Frank Iglesias

      no need to come to Orygun I find myself in Atlanta every 90 days or so.. !

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Frank Iglesias

      and the marketing companies that sell all these newbies the materials to try to get into wholesale love it.. remember its was the one's who sold the pots and pans to the gold miners that made the millions...

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Steve McGovern
    Professional · Lowell, MA · Member since 2014 · 232 posts · 223 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Steve McGovern

      before I was half way done with your post.. I thought to my self he must do cell tower leasing... :)...

     Jay,  Guilty as charged!!  But I also spent 10 years as a Real Estate Paralegal, mostly commercial.  I'm a title/due-diligence/feasibility risk-guy at heart.  Slainte!

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Steve McGovern

      not to get to far off target here I helped my bank sell 4 cell tower sites on a big 600 lot project they foreclosed on in southern ORegon.. we got some pretty big dollars for those if not for those the bank would have taken a VERY big hit.. or worse than they already have.

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Matthew Fragassi Nice try at speculating, but no...could not be further from the truth.

    937-979-7000
    Realize Multifamily Group11 Review
    View Page
    1Reply
  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Jon Mason com'on man..if you are going to join the discussion, come with something stronger than that ;)

    937-979-7000
    Realize Multifamily Group11 Review
    View Page
    1Reply
  • Jon Mason
    Rental Property Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 29 votes
    11y

    @Brandon Sturgill

     Maybe you should also start a petition to ban people from posting on BP unless they meet your detailed requirements of "coming with something strong".   ;)

    or better yet, maybe BP could hire you...give you some fancy title like "Content Czar"...that has a nice ring to it..

    2Reply
  • Matthew Fragassi
    Centre Hall, PA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 20 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @Matthew Fragassi Nice try at speculating, but no...could not be further from the truth.

     Ahhh. Dang it. Well, then, I apologize. 

    1Reply
  • Jesse T.
    Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jon Mason:

    I think it's funny to hear "real" investors say that if they have too much going on they'll occasionally wholesale a deal and they feel they're justified in doing so, but if you're a wholesaler and you do this repeatedly, you're clearly morally bankrupt.

    The party who generally is damaged by incompetent wholesalers is the seller.  For the most part a seller doesn't care who ends up buying their property as long as they end up with the amount they agreed to sell for at the time they agreed to sell.

    1Reply
  • Frank Iglesias
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 79 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    You are right on with the marketers making it off people.  But internet marketing is a business too so it is what it is.  As with all things, its ultimately up to us to use our best resource between our ears to make the best choices.

    Let me know when you are in Atlanta.  Be great to meet up!

    0Reply
  • Daniel Methven
    Investor · roseville, MI · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    I would like to learn every aspect of real estate which includes wholesaling. This site is about knowledge.  There are probably many investors who have  started out their careers wholesale. Don't rob the future of this technique. .,

    0Reply
  • Jesse T.
    Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Methven:

    I would like to learn every aspect of real estate which includes wholesaling. This site is about knowledge.  There are probably many investors who have  started out their careers wholesale. Don't rob the future of this technique. .,

     It would be interesting to see of a BP poll of active investors how many started out as wholesalers.

    1Reply
  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jesse T.:
    Originally posted by @Jon Mason:

    I think it's funny to hear "real" investors say that if they have too much going on they'll occasionally wholesale a deal and they feel they're justified in doing so, but if you're a wholesaler and you do this repeatedly, you're clearly morally bankrupt.

    The party who generally is damaged by incompetent wholesalers is the seller.  For the most part a seller doesn't care who ends up buying their property as long as they end up with the amount they agreed to sell for at the time they agreed to sell.

     Exactly.  That's what annoys me about wholesalers claiming that the are trying to "help" people with their "problems."  (Apparently carrying around all of that yucky "equity" stuff is now a problem.  Must be heavy, or something.)

     I had a couple in my area come to me and offer to sell me their property (can't really say house, it was a mobile on its own lot.)  They needed the money, had lots of medical bills and the husband was in the process of getting disability for a back injury.  I could have "wholesaled" it.  Would have made a nice little chunk of money.  Not a lot, it was a 20-year-old mobile home.  But on a decent lot with a well and septic in place.

    I didn't.  I referred them to a Realtor.  I told them they could sell it for more than I would be able to pay.  I think it was on the market for maybe 25-30 days.

    Did I benefit?  Sure, I have a Realtor friend who owes me one.  But importantly, for me, this couple got the full benefit of a property they worked hard for, got more of their bills paid, and I doubt very much is running around telling their friends and relatives that I am a dirtbag no one should do business with.

    On a personal level, I have never been one to care much what people think of me.  But this real estate stuff is a business, and in business, reputation matters.

    0Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Brandon Sturgill Damn, dude - you are indeed learning :)

    1Reply
  • Alpesh Pandya
    Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 20 posts · 7 votes
    11y

    In this age of open information, a lot of traditional trades and jobs are going through major transformations. Mainly brokerage type trades like insurance agents, car salesmen, RE agents, staffers etc are having to re-think their place and value they bring to customers and society in general. 

    This does not mean that there is no place for them. But they need to learn to offload some of their current duties to internet based aggregates, search engines, directories etc and solely focus on their value proposition.

    I see a lot of tradesmen and professionals moving or at least trying to move in this direction. But many times their professional organizations (associations, boards etc) are doing great job of holding them back :( 

    2Reply
  • Hattie Dizmond
    Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @Account Closed Agreed. However, I do take issue with brokering deals in an industry that relies on licensing standards and regulation...That said, I think that wholesalers are real scrappers that are only permitted to exist because there are too many dipshit agents that can't meet the needs of investors...

     I can't believe I'm actually devoting additional words to this inane thread, but weak, illogical arguments just beg for me to chime in!

    Dude...you continually refer to the saintly "agents" and how they should be able to fulfill every need of the investor. I'm not a wholesaler, but I will wholesale deals. However, NO deal I get, regardless of my exit strategy, is available to an agent, unless they are doing the marketing I am. And, further, why would they do that type or level of marketing? If these sellers thought they could list their properties with an agent and take care of their problems, they likely would have already done it. There are reasons these people aren't listing with an agent. There are reasons they aren't trying to sell on the retail market. You are familiar with the term/description "motivated seller", right? For that matter, so of these people have listed their properties on the MLS, through an agent, and they DIDN'T sell.

    Your argument holds about as much water as saying, "We have WalMart.  Therefore, we don't need Sam's Club."  Sam's Club fulfills a different niche than WalMart.  Most of the new developments of Super WalMart include a Sam's Club in the same footprint.  There they are, basically in the same parking lot.  Clearly the king of retail doesn't believe they compete with each other.  It's no different than Wholesalers and agents.  They both fill a niche.  Neither of them is fully equipped to fill the niche of the other, so they coexist.

    Get over it.

    5Reply
  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Fragassi:
    Hey toots, (The original poster) you've obviously been had by a wholesaler.

    You want us rational and intelligent investors to stop discussing a certain method of investing because you don't like it? Oh, poor baby.

    If you got burned by a wholesaler, that's YOUR fault, not his or ours. You were beat by someone smarter and more determined than you.

    Had you got off the couch and put the work in yourself, you would have found the deals yourself and make lots of money.

    Don't blame others for your downfalls in life, that won't get you anywhere.

     Just read this.  Amazing!   Allow me to say (ahem)....

    ...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    0Reply
  • Daniel Methven
    Investor · roseville, MI · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jesse T.:
    Originally posted by @Daniel Methven:

    I would like to learn every aspect of real estate which includes wholesaling. This site is about knowledge.  There are probably many investors who have  started out their careers wholesale. Don't rob the future of this technique. .,

     It would be interesting to see of a BP poll of active investors how many started out as wholesalers.

    I think that would solve this debate real quick. Even if just a few investors started out this way, think of how it probably helped shape their careers or helped them get the cash for their first few deals. They say knowledge is power! 

    0Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    HAHAHA - Case and point:

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/205589-wholesale-under-contract

    Oh my - someone tell me what's going on. @Jay Hinrichs - how many more of these threads do I have to inadvertently expose my eyes to? This hurts my sensibilities - you disagree?

    Hahaha fun day on BP! Thanks for the entertainment y'all!

    2Reply
  • Jesse T.
    Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Methven:
    Originally posted by @Jesse T.:
    Originally posted by @Daniel Methven:

    I would like to learn every aspect of real estate which includes wholesaling. This site is about knowledge.  There are probably many investors who have  started out their careers wholesale. Don't rob the future of this technique. .,

     It would be interesting to see of a BP poll of active investors how many started out as wholesalers.

    I think that would solve this debate real quick. Even if just a few investors started out this way, think of how it probably helped shape their careers or helped them get the cash for their first few deals. They say knowledge is power! 

    I would suspect beginning as a wholesaler is actually a pretty rare entry point into Real Estate investing.

    Off the top of my head these would be more common:

    Real Estate Agent

    Diversification/Re-investment(e.g. sold a business or stock portfolio)

    General Contractor/Trades

    Inherited property(ies)

    "Accidental landlord"

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Hattie Dizmond

    for better or worse one of the reasons sellers think a wholesaler is better than a realtor is they actually think they are getting a better deal with the wholesaler because they are not paying any commission.... this point is driven home in every wholesalers marketing pitch. So the seller by not consulting with a realtor many times only listens to what the wholesaler says they can pay and figures that what the property is worth.. not knowing that if they had checked true comps that they are selling for far less than market values.. Now of course this is not always the case and I bet there are wholesalers that divulge they are buying under FMV but there are wholesalers that will not and do not and are out to make as much as they can regardless if its in the best interest of the seller....

    I know we wrestled with this concundrum in the timber industry.. you can put your timber up on the open market and you will get 5 offers and all of them will be vastly different.

    So in essence the Seller is really thinking they are making out simply because they are not paying a commish and are clueless that they just left a bunch of money on the table.

    I think that's the debate and issue between us RE brokers and the wholesale community.

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free