Updating the BiggerPockets Influence System

Questions About BiggerPockets & Official Site Announcements
14yFollow

Updating the BiggerPockets Influence System

Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Hey All -
One of our upcoming projects is to update our influence system to one that better reflects a user's influence on the site.

We will be transforming the system from the current limitless influence scale to a 0 to 100 scale, where all new users start at 50, and can work down or up from there. Active users who have influence points currently will be placed in the new system based on their current influence.

That said, one of the important factors of our new system will be a time decay of influence, so those people who may have been active in the past, but who are no longer active, will slowly lose points over time.

Ultimately, we're interested in hearing from you, what makes you trust OR NOT trust someone on the site?

We want to take as many factors into account as possible so this system has some meaning and shows at any given time who the influencers are, and I'm looking to you for your feedback.

One of the things I'm most interested in hearing about is user feedback on negatives and the drivers of a user losing "points" on our scale.

Thanks and I look forward to a lively and respectful debate.

Podcast Guest on Show #100
0
Topic locked
869 views

Most Popular Reply

Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
14y

After reading all the comments thus far, I am leaning towards this:

Screw it, delete the influence system all together, who cares. You know who you like and respect after reading their posts so just go with that. If you are new, it will become abundantly clear who the main contributors are, who is wise in what areas and who is not.

Podcast Guest on Show #130
5
Topic locked
See this reply in the discussion

190 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    14y

    For now, Demond Bradford, be sure to vote for those posts from people you think give good advice. That's a great way to validate their insight.

    Carlos F. - Nothing offends me. I just prefer productive feedback. I don't see complaining without suggestion as having value. I also meant what I said -- I'm sorry I couldn't please you with the update. I knew coming in that some people wouldn't be happy. With such a large usership, you'll never please everyone, but we certainly try.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    1
    Topic locked
  • Jon Klaus
    Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    Designing the best influence system here at BP reminds me of what I have to do in my IT services company. Figure out the optimum compensation plan for engineers who used to work on a time and materials basis, but now work under a fixed rate, managed services program, where they all contribute varying value to the clients and company. Its a bit maddening to make everyone happy, and it simply can't be done.

    At the same time, I've been preaching for many years that your compensation plan IS your job description. Does that apply here? Of course it does, but not for BP influence scoring. We all need to be working on the things that give us the best return for our time and attention. For most of us, that is actually perfecting and executing our REI business plan. Measurable feedback? $$$$ That's the game to play and influence system to get excited about.

    3
    Topic locked
  • James Hiddle
    Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
    14y

    Hmmm it's going to be interesting to see how the new influence system works.

    0
    Topic locked
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    I'm less influenced by the "influence" number, than I am discouraged by the group, forums, blogs, etc. that haven't had any posts for years. This business is one that is time relevant due to changing markets, interest rates, etc., and I'd like to see posts removed after a period of a year, especially if there haven't been any new posts!

    0
    Topic locked
  • Carlos Flores
    Commercial Real Estate Lender / Syndicator · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 888 posts · 309 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
    Carlos F. - I'm sorry I couldn't please you with the update.

    Josh - I don't come to this board seeking happiness, satisfaction or pleasure. As a matter of fact, I don't go to any board for that. I also don't come to this board to have sparring matches, and I try not to allow pride to have its way with me. The influence system is of no consequence to me. For what it's worth, I apologize for whatever it was you were looking for from me but didn't get.

    0
    Topic locked
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    14y

    No sweat Carlos. Thanks.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    0
    Topic locked
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    P.S. What really impresses me about this site is the attention you give it Joshua! There have been a few times I had a question, and you responded with lightening speed. I think Biggerpockets is one of the best real estate sites out there, with actual relevant information for novices to the most experienced, investors, developers, or lookeloos! So... THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK JOSHUA!

    1
    Topic locked
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    14y

    Thanks Karen M.. I appreciate that. It is nice to hear.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    0
    Topic locked
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    [/b][b]

    Originally posted by Demond Bradford:
    I've found that most people on BP are actually trying to help those of us who are newbies. @ Joshua Dorkin if there is a way to verify quality advice please incorporate it into the new system.

    The above post is why I joined BP in the first place, to tell newbies what I know about something and to keep them out of trouble.

    I'll be more constructive;

    Josh, I'm sure you have passed this site before legal minds and have considered your liability in what goes on here and I have not read your disclaimer but I'm sure you have a good one.

    I never did really like the influence system as it is impossible to take a comment made and quantify the degree of good advice given. While there is no legal liability in facilitating bad advice, to me there is a degree of a moral obligation in doing so, but still that is beyound your control and sure everyone realizes that.

    But here is the rub, you set up a system that allows someone to establish a degree of influence or preceived expertise that is influenced by popularity to some degree. You do have friends voting for friends. You do have newbies voting who don't have a clue. You also have "tons" of topics having nothing to do with RE that were voted up and simplistic topics that were started that contributed to the gaming of the system. This resulted is a false influence scoring that had some shoot to the top of the pile as being an "expert" contributor.

    Let's take this into the business arena a moment. Let's say I'm a heavy hitter on BP with the highest (or one of the highest) point count.

    I meet someone who I am attempting to influence in a business transaction. I mention to that person over lunch that I'm an expert in the RE arena and that I contribute to a well know national RE site as a "main contriubot". I tell them to look me up on the site, or heck, we go back to the office and I pull myself up and show off a bit. I just used my influence on the site as a third party influence to sway what my client might think of me! All the time, I hardly know diddly!

    Not only can someone use this false identification as an expert be used here to influence newbies but also off site, as a means to establish their reputation. And I'm sure it has been done. Now, consider the type of gamer that would manipulate the system and that tells me they would be likely to manipulate other things in their life as well. I'm not suggesting fraud or deception to the point of being illegal, but unethical....all due to the fact that the influence system allows one to be preceived as an expert.

    Then take a new member, they could have more expertise in any area than anyone here, they may give great advice along with someone who is not as sure footed. Who is the newbie to listen to? Good advice is sometimes hard to identify, bad advice will be addressed by many other here most of the time, but can be missed.

    So, my vote is to go with Will, give people badges as tokens if you like and do away with the influence system that allows someone to be preceived as an expert. If we must have points and incentivies, make it points toawrd a T-Shirt for participation points, but don't kake it sound as a certification or endorsement.

    And, BTW, the big dog on BP hasn't even posted in this thread....at least by the time I hit post! LOL

    1
    Topic locked
  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    Not sure how someone with 300 posts could have the same or higher influence level as I with over 1,100? Just because I dont post 5-10 times a day for 7 days does not level up to over 3.5yrs of being an active member?

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1
    Topic locked
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    I don't worry about all of this. Way too much stuff to contemplate.

    I am into simplifying my life and not making it more complex.

    Traffic translates to DOLLARS for Josh's business.Nothing wrong with it as everyone needs to make a living and grow the business.

    I enjoy reading the posts and coming here and relaxing.I say file 13 it as well.

    Podcast Guest on Show #47
    NNN Invest53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0
    Topic locked
  • Uwe S.
    Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
    14y

    Now I saw Bryan H. with 99 points, he should be the best here :).

    -Uwe

    0
    Topic locked
  • James Vermillion
    Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    The new system appears to be an upgrade...nice work Joshua Dorkin. That said, the influence system does not even register on the list of reasons I come to this site, so there really isn't anything you could have done to it to piss me off. The important part is you are continually making improvements to this already awesome community...you can't please everyone!

    2
    Topic locked
  • Ann Bellamy
    Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    Karen M., I have to disagree with you about removing old posts. Sometimes they are very valuable. Everyone doesn't need the same information at the same time, so going back and reading up on a topic is very useful. Joshua Dorkin, just wanted to put my 2cents in in case you are considering it.

    4
    Topic locked
  • Tod R.
    Investor · Southlake, TX · Member since 2009 · 950 posts · 338 votes
    14y

    If managing older posts were a consideration, I would at least like to have access to an "archive" of older posts.

    0
    Topic locked
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    14y

    I tend to agree with Carlos, the new system may be seen as better, and going forward, may have better algorithms to calculate the new score, but I still vote to do away with teh scores all together because I just don't see the value in keeping any point system. I prefer the badge system and nothing more.

    Bill also made a good point regarding the old system and I truley believe that just a badge system would be better for all users of this site, including our fearless leader.

    Podcast Guest on Show #130
    0
    Topic locked
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    OP
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    14y

    No plans to remove old posts right now.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    0
    Topic locked
  • Jeff Coga
    Developer · Hollywood, CA · Member since 2011 · 81 posts · 29 votes
    14y

    I would of been a little more strategic... Just don't tell people the algorithm and leave it aesthetically the same... see if people even notice the difference or voice an opinion... then create this forum... and tell people well you didn't say anything... it's been like this for the last 3 months LOL (drinking a beer while I type this)

    0
    Topic locked
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
    No plans to remove old posts right now.
    Old posts should not be removed ever. They may be inactive, but they may contain info that other members reference, they should always stay.
    Podcast Guest on Show #130
    1
    Topic locked
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Will Barnard:
    Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
    No plans to remove old posts right now.
    Old posts should not be removed ever. They may be inactive, but they may contain info that other members reference, they should always stay.

    If my vote button worked with my current Linux setup, I would have to give Will a +1 on that.

    Not only do I agree with Will, but many of those older posts are chock full of valuable nuggets - so much so that many of them are part of the link compilations that you'll find I have posted in various threads.

    And to add to what Will stated, I would like to see that discussions that have taken place not get classified into the "removed threads" archive where they can no longer be viewed - just delete the spam posts from the threads and lock the thread from further spam. Of course, the posts where BP is threatened with legal action are certainly going to have to be handled as they are now, by removal of the entire thread ...

    0
    Topic locked
  • Michael Quarles
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    14y

    One of the things I'm noticing with BP is all of the forum posts about BP. Why do we need so many conversations about the site.

    It seems lately that it is getting harder and harder to find a quality real estate topic.

    Lastly, why do we need an influence system.. people already can tell you're a professional once you buy the status for 14.95 a month... it says it right under your picture...

    1
    Topic locked
  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    OK so my idea of having a time limit for keeping posts went down in smoke. But, doesn't anyone but me get frustrated when you click on a link, to give input, or take part in the conversation, only to find out it's 5 years old?

    Joshua, maybe on the Groups, require that if someone starts it they have to agree to moderate and have to stay involved. If it is inactive for a 6 months -year, take it down. My whole thing is having the site be relevant, and like seeing forums, groups etc. active. Maybe it's just me,?

    0
    Topic locked
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Karen M.:
    ... But, doesn't anyone but me get frustrated when you click on a link, to give input, or take part in the conversation, only to find out it's 5 years old?

    ... maybe on the Groups ...

    I just did the following, to see what the situation with the Groups is. Now, this does work for Groups where you already belong - not sure about Groups where you do not belong (haven't tried that yet).

    I go to the menu on the right-hand side of this page, and select "Groups". Then the next level down shows all of the Groups to which I belong, along with a "last post" date for each Group in the list. If I need to see recent and relevant, that in itself gives me that info.

    Now, I can understand frustrations with a search operation that turns up an older inactive thread, especially since that happens quite a bit here ...

    1
    Topic locked
  • Steve L.
    Investor · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 684 votes
    14y

    I like this better then the previous one. It is impossible to make everyone happy but I think we can all agree BP gets consistently better.

    Good work Josh, wish I could be at the conference.

    1
    Topic locked
  • Marc Freislinger
    Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes
    14y

    I'm good with the new system, even if I'm only in the 70's. Really though, keep up the good work Josh.

    And I wanted to be the 100th post in the thread. Done.

    1
    Topic locked