Am I wasting my agent's time?

Am I wasting my agent's time?

Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes

This is a three part question....Am I wasting my agent's time?  Should I ask to enter a buyers agreement?  Should I just approach the listing agent on my own?  I have zero investing experience.

Background...After speaking with a loan officer she suggested an agent that has worked with investors.  We went to look at a house I wanted to put an offer on.  I put in an offer and the bank accepted someone else's offer three days later.  Since then I've found other foreclosures and my agent has taken me to see them.  I put in other offers and the bank comes back with counter offers that I'm not even close to willing to pay.  I guess I don't feel like I'm lowballing since I'm offering the highest price where my numbers are working out.  

If I keep this up (since I have no intentions of stopping), will my agent eventually just get tired of me wasting his time?  He runs comps and tells me a price the house is probably worth, which in my opinion aren't fair comps because the houses I am looking at are in bad shape and cash only.  Comparing that to a nicely put together home doesn't seem right.  This is why I ask if I should enter a buyers agreement so I'm 100% sure he's looking out for my interests.  I feeling like approaching the listing agent on my own would be more beneficial only because he/she will get the full commission.  

Thanks for the thoughts,

Blaine

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Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
10y

@Blaine Brown You might be better off submitting offers directly to the listing agent and just explain your agent you feel you're wasting his time. The listing agent has the responsibility of showing all the offers to the seller regardless of the size of your offer. 

You can also look at REO comps, although obviously it will be hard to come up with a value, it will give you some ball park number on how much investors pay for these properties.

I highly recommend you get your license. I recently got mine because I want to be able to see any property I want whenever I want without depending on the agent. Having a license will also help you cut on commissions which truly adds up and can make the difference between losing or making money on your first deal.

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  • Contractor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 885 posts · 359 votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown

    How about this?

    Why don't you tell your agent your exact criteria?  That way he'll only send you things you'd actually be interested in.  If he knows exactly what you want, it will be easier for him to provide you with options ... or it will give him an opportunity to tell you to find another agent.

  • Broomall, PA · Member since 2016 · 85 posts · 28 votes
    10y
    Blaine Brown If more than 1/10 offers are accepted then something may be wrong. Sticking to your criteria allows you to not go broke. Depending on your price range there may be very little commission per transaction and from an agent's perspective the time spent looking at properties may not be worth the return. You could certainly contact the listing agent so the commission would not have to be split up.
  • Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes
    10y

    I use my realtor like a knowledge resource, a teacher. You are probably not your realtors only customer and you're also likely not their first. They know the market better than you and they know what things should and shouldn't sell for. I trust my realtor and I take his advice when putting in offers. I've got some great deals this way. It's a double edge sword though, if you don't trust your realtor to do the right thing then you could get screwed, sure. That said, if you don't trust your realtor then why are you working with them?

    As a side note, the last four family I bought I searched for 5 months with my realtor looking at COUNTLESS places. I even had a rehab deal fall through halfway into it. The four family I bought before that I had a offer on a 3 family fall through. They know what their job entails and they get paid well to do it. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown, it's not just one agent advising a higher bid on a single house based on comps.  From what you say, the agent has a higher estimate of what the bid should be than you do in every case.   If banks are repeatedly counteroffering with prices that you are "not even close to willing to pay", it sounds like you have unrealistic expectations.  

    There's nothing wrong with being patient and waiting for that one super great deal to come along.  If that's your plan, I agree with @Jeremy Pace, that you should simply explain to agent what you want and exactly how much you want to spend to get it.

    I've learned that statements like "I want a good deal" or "I want something inexpensive that needs work" are too broad for an agent to get a good idea of what you want. Just say "I want to spend $50K to buy a house in a neighborhood where, after I renovate it, the ARV will be $100K." Say exactly what you're looking for.

    Good luck,

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown, if you're only asked to make Offers on properties that are ALREADY listed (but not by your current "Agent"), then yes, you are likely wasting his time. He has already shown signs of steering you towards wrong thought processes - but fortunately, you are sharp!

    Therefore, I don't feel you need to enter into a Buyers' agreement with this (or perhaps any?) Agent - at this stage. Largely, because I have heard that they will want a piece of the action even when you come across a deal on your own! (WARNING - look very carefully at the wording of any Buyers' Agreement)!

    You are already well on your way - sticking to YOUR numbers! All the best...

  • Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I agree with @Jeremy Pace.  Let the agent decide, don't worry about what you think your agent might be thinking.

    You may not have the right agent for you now but there is one out there that will be a good fit.  It took me 8 years before I stumbled on my current agent and I can't imagine ever leaving her.  I send her a list of 4-5 homes and she will run inside each of them and let me know if any are worth my time to look at.  Beyond that there are countless other ways she helps me out. 

    That sort of relationship takes time to develop but when you have it, it's gold.  The up side for her is I will end up buying 5-10 properties a year through her.

    My only criticism of her is she wont bend the rules and give me the lockbox codes so I can look inside a property on my own, if I happen to be driving by. 

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jeremy Pace:

    @Blaine Brown

    Why don't you tell your agent your exact criteria?  That way he'll only send you things you'd actually be interested in.  

    Thanks for the response.  The only thing I know is that I want to buy a house to rehab, and then have it produce 6%-7% return after I do a cash out refinance.  I'm looking at homes in the 100K-150K range for this.  He doesn't send me any listings to look at.  I send them to him and we go look.  We've only gone out to see homes a couple of times, but I feel as though everyone's time is important.

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Randy E.:

    @Blaine Brown, it's not just one agent advising a higher bid on a single house based on comps.  From what you say, the agent has a higher estimate of what the bid should be than you do in every case.   If banks are repeatedly counteroffering with prices that you are "not even close to willing to pay", it sounds like you have unrealistic expectations.  

    Thanks Randy!

     I guess this is what I was really afraid of is me being unrealistic.  I am just looking for something that works.  Here's an example.  The house I put an offer on was originally listed at 145K.  The price dropped to 135K and I went to look at it.  It has no flooring, no appliances, kitchen needs to be done over due to miss-matching cabinets...the list goes on.  I was estimating about $25K to get it up to speed.  Houses with close to the same square footage in the same neighborhood sold for 130K-140K within the last year.  I offered 110K and bank came back with 133K.  I'm not willing to buy a house for 133K and soak 25K into it only to have it appraise for 135K when I cash out.  I'm not looking to flip, but I would like my rent to work out to 6-7% after I refi.  I'm finding this to be a very difficult task.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown, seeing as YOU are finding the Listings, and given your bargain hunting inclination, why not just work with the relevant Listing Agents? 

    A Buyers' Agent sounds good in theory; YOU are their client rather than the Seller - but, THEIR interest is still primarily: also getting paid)!

    Hey, I'm surprised you even offered $110k for the one that "has no flooring".

    Banks may THINK they have the upper hand when counter-offering, BUT...

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown - I have a similar situation with my realtor. He takes a long time to get back to me and scheduling appointments. I've explained to him what I want to do and my strategy. 

    So...to try and make things work out better for both of us...What I think I'm going to try is to schedule a day and time when we will go look at properties. This way I will send him a week in advance the list of houses I want to see the up coming week, we go look at them. We'll discuss which ones I'd like to submit offers on. Then within 24 hours have him send me comp reports for reach, while I do rehab analysis. We will then have a call to discuss ARV, and I'll give him offers to submit.

    By taking this approach every week and laying this out for my realtor I'll be able to let him decide if he wants to make this time commitment for the number of deals I'm going to do each year. If not, then I will go find another realtor who is okay with that.

  • Contractor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 885 posts · 359 votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown

    If you are sending listings to the agent, he's not trying to have your back.  It doesn't sounds like he's actually very investor friendly.  You should seek out a salesperson who really wants to work with you, and that includes finding listings for you, he's in a much more suitable position to find you what you want than you are.

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y

    Thanks everyone.  I pose this question also because this guy is prompt and gets back to me immediately.  He is a wealth of knowledge with regards to how real estate is set up.  He submits offers at night after his day has ended.  None of which I expect.  I've worked with others in the past and will quickly move on if I'm not "feeling it".  This guy has been awesome about stuff.  It's only the "comps" that I raised an eyebrow about, but I also wonder if I'm the one that is clueless; which I know I am due to my lack of experience.  My understanding though is that both agents really work for the "seller" unless you sign an agreement, or am I wrong?

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Masotti:

    @Blaine Brown - I have a similar situation with my realtor. He takes a long time to get back to me and scheduling appointments. I've explained to him what I want to do and my strategy. 

    So...to try and make things work out better for both of us...What I think I'm going to try is to schedule a day and time when we will go look at properties. This way I will send him a week in advance the list of houses I want to see the up coming week, we go look at them. We'll discuss which ones I'd like to submit offers on. Then within 24 hours have him send me comp reports for reach, while I do rehab analysis. We will then have a call to discuss ARV, and I'll give him offers to submit.

    By taking this approach every week and laying this out for my realtor I'll be able to let him decide if he wants to make this time commitment for the number of deals I'm going to do each year. If not, then I will go find another realtor who is okay with that.

     I like that approach James.  It is one that I will keep in mind when I can fund more than one house at a time.  This seems to be a good approach to maximizing both of your time.  I'm still at the submit one and see what happens.

  • Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    10y

    @Blaine Brown

    "..... I'm looking at homes in the 100K-150K range for this. He doesn't send me any listings to look at. I send them to him and we go look. We've only gone out to see homes a couple of times, but I feel as though everyone's time is important...."

    You might consider having your Realtor put you on the MLS Automatic Notification. Give your Realtor your criteria, i.e. "single family house, price range, towns you are interested in." The Realtor would set you up on the MLS so that each time properties come on the market that meet your criteria, the listings will immediately be e-mailed to you. Might save you and your Realtor from wasting time.

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y

     I can only do one flip at a time too. That's why all of my offers have an inspection and financing contingency. My bank will only approve me to do one house at a time, so if I get accepted on more than one (highly unlikely at this point) than the bank wont approve me, so my financing would fall through. Of course the better scenario if I get more than one under contract is give another flipper the deal...either make a little bit of extra on bringing them a good deal...or just hand it off as part of investing in good relationships. 

    Either way my realtor knows I can only do one deal at a time and supports this idea of submitting multiple offers at once. May be something else to discuss with your realtor. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    When I have a client that wants to put in a lowball bid...or even if I want to put in a lowball bid...I usually do so verbally before writing the offer.  I find that this saves a lot of time. Say the house is listed at $400k, and my client wants to offer $300k, Im going to ask the listing agent if it is even in the realm of possibility. If they say no, then I do not need to waste my time actually writing up the offer.  

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y

    That's a great idea James.  I must be looking at real dumps.  I can't get a loan on any of the properties I'm looking at because they are "uninhabitable."  I figured cash with no finance contingency would be a little more incentive to sell, but I'm finding not to be the case.  Now I see why some of these places sit for the long periods they do.   

  • Investor · Dover, DE · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    10y
    @Russell Brazil

    "...I usually do so verbally before writing the offer..."

     Thanks Russell.  So can I assume every now and then you get a "yes, that's a possibility?"  I guess I just figured the formalization of an offer would provide more incentive since a deposit is put down.  Just like anything else, I'm sure it all depends on the situation.

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y
    Blaine Brown - look for a construction loan. This is short term financing specifically designed for this type of work. Besides...you can still make an offer with a financing contingency even if you're paying cash....your bank will only let you cash so many checks after all :-)
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Blaine Brown:
    @Russell Brazil

    "...I usually do so verbally before writing the offer..."

     Thanks Russell.  So can I assume every now and then you get a "yes, that's a possibility?"  I guess I just figured the formalization of an offer would provide more incentive since a deposit is put down.  Just like anything else, I'm sure it all depends on the situation.

     I think like twice the listing agent told me to write an offer....and one of them we lost it as another offer came in out of nowhere at a reasonable price before we could get our offer in.

  • Sandy, UT · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    I was in a similar situation when shopping for a primary residence, not investment property, about 12 years ago. It was the top of the bubble in a competitive market back East. I understand your concerns about staying within your budget. There is nothing wrong with that and your realtor should understand. Our agent submitted multiple offers that were rejected. Even if we had gone in at the price she recommended, the offers would have still been rejected in most cases. We were absolutely unwilling to pay more than we could afford.  We expanded our search to another area in the Tri-state and worked with another realtor. She ended up having done all that work for no commission. No hard feelings,she told us, just part of the game. It's nice to be conscious of your realtor's time, but ultimately it is his decision whether he wants to continue to invest in this process. Realtors know the score. They know most deals aren't 'one and done', that they have to work 'after hours' (whatever that means) and write multiple offers. At this point your realtor has got some skin in the game. He probably wouldn't want to give up on you now. And if you drop him, you would be depriving him of the chance to earn the commission he has been working toward. Just don't enter into a Buyer's Agreement with someone who isn't bringing you deals anyway. 

  • Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 716 posts · 313 votes
    10y

    I use my realtor for access to the M.L.S and last sold price .When I talk to my agent about a house I already know a lot of info from doing my home work. I pull the comps my self I ask my agent if my comps seem right then put in a offer .The web site the agent gave is well designed. I go and set up the perimeters form my search .The realtor should tell you if you are low balling or simply ask them are my numbers right?

    I have to admit agents are just like people some good some bad I just fired my last agent .The new one is much more professional has a great web site for searching listings has his pulse on what is going on down to knowing what type of stove to buy .

  • Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 997 votes
    10y

    Firstly, as a realtor myself I would like to thank you for considering the time and energy your broker/agent is giving you. Sometimes people forget that we are human beings with families to support.

    Do have a buyer's agency agreement or not is an interesting question for which there are countless possible answers. Some of the most active brokers in my neck of the woods demand that their clients sign a buyer's agency agreement, and others don't. Keep in mind, the buyer's agency agreement is designed to protect the agent. But consider this, attorneys have a similar agreement and relationship with their clients. And no one throw stones at that set up.

    I think it is incredibly important to be as honest and straightforward with your agent as possible. There've been instances in which buyers I have dealt with used another broker without my knowledge and it was incredibly hurtful, almost like your spouse or girlfriend cheated on you I imagine. Unfortunately, most buyers consider real estate brokers as a commodity. However, this is primarily the fault of us, real estate agents. Most of us are unable to show or provide true value. Quite frankly, the agent I used when my wife and I bought our house was pretty useless. He acted like neutral third-party helping us navigate the paperwork, we did not have the impression that he was doing any heavy lifting for us. In fact, knowing what I know now I am quite astonished at some of the things he did and didn't bother doing. Regrettably, most agents operate without adding any real value.

    So please, just be honest and tell them exactly what it is you hope to achieve. If they are any good at working with investors I am certain that any response you provide will be agreeable to them.

  • Dave MeyerPro Member
    Head of Real Estate Investing at BiggerPockets · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 826 votes
    10y

    I wouldn't worry about - if your agent is smart, he/she will realize you're a perfect client. It may take a while to find deals, because being patient and disciplined is key, but if you're successful in real estate investing (as I'm sure you will be if you're here on BP!) you'll be buying/selling houses at rate most brokers can only dream about. Your agent should be helping you learn the market and the business, and in exchange you will be loyal to them as you expand deal flow. Should be a win/win! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Yes you are wasting the agents time.  The fact that you are on a public forum asking that means you probably know you are as well.

    The guy is going around for free with you and putting in low ball offers on your behalf and you are questioning whether he has your best interests in mind?  What more does he have to do to show you he is on your side?

    Do the realtor a favor and dump him.  Sorry for being brutally honest but you think a listing agent is going to look out for your best interest?  Laughable.  

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