Tenant from hell eviction case. Now I have officially seen it all

Tenant from hell eviction case. Now I have officially seen it all

Property Manager · Metro Detroit, MI · Member since 2008 · 305 posts · 362 votes

Bought a SFH at the end of last year. Off market deal, had a tenant who owner said , "has not paid rent in 6 months, and i dont want to deal with the eviction process."

I got the house for an awesome deal. One of my best deals of the year.

I have bought several homes in these situations, with non paying tenants. Most times I can contact the tenant and work out a "cash for keys" situation and everybody wins.

After closing I call the tenant. He says he does not want to do cash for keys and he wants to stay in the home. He says he will pay the market rate rent we agree to every month on the 1st, he will deposit first months payment tomorrow.

wow!  this is great news. I now avoid the $20k+ remodel this house needs to get it ready for sale/rent.

He pays rent the next day. then he pays the next months rent on the 1st, no problems. 

3rd month comes along and he does not pay, gives excuse after excuse making promises he cant keep on when he is making payment. I finally have to cut my loses and send the Pay or Quit notice. 

He does not pay or move out in the 7 day period. Off to court we go....

He does not show up to court. Great! Judge enters a default judgement and they give him 10 days to vacate or the Sheriff will get involved. 

He does not move in the 10 days. 

This is where it gets really weird, really fast.

I get a notice in mail granting the tenant a new court date. what?? how can this be?? Ive never seen this before..     I call the court and the clerk tells me the tenant came in with his court notice they mailed him, and sure enough it did not have the court address on it, the printer skipped it......she assured me she has never seen this before and it is rather odd. But since the tenant was not given an address to know where the court was located they gave him a new date.

I figured the tenant was playing games, so I hired an attorney to go to the new court date with me.

New Court Date: Tenant shows up this time. And has quite the story to share with the court....

He claims that he is the sole owner of the home and that I am a scam artist trying to kick him out of his own house that he has owned for 5 years.  Amazing right?!

At the hearing I had my closing package that included a copy of the recorded deed and proof of title insurance. Tenant said he did not bring his proof, but he has it.

Judge adjourned the case, said he did not have time to look at my proof and wanted the tenant to have a chance to prove his ownership. Unbelievable.

Now we have another court date.

My lawyer is concerned that the tenant will show with fake documentation and the judge will hold this over for trial where each side has time and the opportunity to call witnesses etc.

I will obviously win in the end , but this tenant is willing to do whatever he can to live for free.

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Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
8y

Well since he paid you rent for the first couple months  ..................  That will kinda blow that defense

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  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    I have a couple problems with this entire story.

    1. You have the legal documents to prove ownership and you have a court hearing, yet the judge claims he doesn't have time to review the documents? Seriously? Most of us could prove legal ownership in under ten minutes.

    2. The tenant paid rent for a couple months. Why would he pay rent if he were the legal owner?


    Any time you buy a property with existing tenants, you should create an estoppel certificate. Had you done that prior to closing, you would have collected a document signed by the tenant showing his tenancy terms, rent rate, deposit, etc. It would have signatures for you, the tenant, and the seller. That would have prevented him from selling this lie.

    SAMPLE ESTOPPEL CERTIFICATE

    It's absolutely mind-boggling that our judicial system has become so unjust.

    You must have missed the part of the story where OP buys this property with a tenant in default.... and at a huge discount.  I'm playing devils advocate here but there is still a chance that's just the blatant lie he was sold so he didn't bother contacting the "tenant". 

    Tenant estoppel certificates are generally to confirm a lease exists, a security deposit is or is not held, and that neither party is in default.

    People saying this is a slam dunk simply because OP has a recorded deed have apparently never heard of a true title dispute.

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  • Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 21 votes
    8y

    Why would the "owner" pay two months rent?  If I owned a property and was living in it and someone else came along and said they owned it and they needed rent, I'd tell them to pound sand, much less give them money to live in "my" property. 

    Not saying those things don't exist, but this seems far from that and actually the norm and should have been settled already.  But of course the poser gets every benefit of the doubt while the actual owner gets the shaft.  Won't cost the poser anything.  In fact the longer it's drawn out, the more free rent he gets. 

    I just bought a property much like this and was hesitant because of stuff like this, not to mention the potential damage done during the interim period from closing to the tenant vacating.  Mine worked out great, but always makes me nervous.   

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 125 votes
    8y

    I think one of the important considerations is to assess if the tenant is being purposely fraudulent.  It really looks like that is the case, but having dealt with a lot of a tenants, it is possible to believe that this person may have a very low IQ and almost no education about their situation regarding ownership/tenancy.  (Again almost certainly as described, but we are interpreting over the internet so I am adding this consideration).

    If this is as described, I think it may be worth considering pursuing this to the fullest extent of the law both criminally and civilly (civil side with a good attorney on contingency).  We as a community tend to let things go because it "isn't worth the hassle" but this attitude is often responsible for the continuation of this kind of behavior and you would be providing a valuable community service.  Just my two cents.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Kenny Lee  this is all pure speculation of course since we are not on the front lines.

    but I have sold many a house on contract and the buyer still called his payment rent.. and called me to fix things after he moved in.. It was clear we were selling it to him.. or her.. but they still have that deep seeded renter mentality.

    you have to remember us here on BP are versed in RE and to us what seems easy and logical to many who are clueless about how transactions work .. have no clue to the vocabulary etc.. it can happen.

    Again I think this 97.78 % is a tenant just squatting based on feedback but you never know. 

    I have had it go the other way I did a suit for performance from a shut in.. took me two years to get her to trial. 

    she won't show we ask for a ruling on the bench judge says NO he is giving her one more shot to show.. next trial no show we are all loaded for bear .. he calls her name no answer gavel in the next 15 seconds and we won.

    lady still would not sign the deed even with court order.. its the first time I took title without any kind of deed.. simply a court order and Chicago insured. it.. but to be safe I transferred it right away to one of my LLC's and bought ANOTHER title policy because the transfer with no deed just had me a little freaked out.. you live long enough you see many things.

  • Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    This is the reason we have so many asinine laws and procedures, its because a small group of landlords/"investors" act so abhorrently towards tenants/homeowners that lawmakers and judges decided they have to go to extremes to prevent a reoccurrence. Enough homeowners suffer a fraud where they quit-claim their properties over to an individual for a "loan modification program" or a rent-to-own type deal that the judges become very cautions, and the rest of us honest participants suffer. Its reflected in Dodd-Frank, ADA, Fair Housing, local eviction laws, Etc - all of these came about because of a small group of people abused others to such an extreme level that the gov't swoops in and decides protections are needed and they go to the opposite extreme in their policies. Another good example is a wave of laws that prohibit background checks. Enough landlords used blanket-type policies that would exclude someone with a silly retail-theft charge from 20 years ago, that the lawmakers are gaining traction in some areas in banning background checks all together (even for murderers).

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    8y

    @Tom Gimer true...unless you listen to the rest of the story. The occupant paid rent for two months. Are you seriously claiming a legal owner would pay rent to someone that bought the home illegally?

    Unless @Keith Jourdan is hiding something from us, this is a clear-cut case and an estoppel certificate would have likely saved his bacon.

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  • Realtor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 857 votes
    8y

    Sounds like you have a professional tenant. Knows that to say and do to keep extending his free ride.

    Hope your attorney is well prepared and I wish you the best of luck. Some times the best deals you snap up are not the best 6months down the track and you really wonder "Why did I buy this place" BUT KEEP A POSITIVE MIND SET!

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    @Tom Gimer true...unless you listen to the rest of the story. The occupant paid rent for two months. Are you seriously claiming a legal owner would pay rent to someone that bought the home illegally?

    Unless @Keith Jourdan is hiding something from us, this is a clear-cut case and an estoppel certificate would have likely saved his bacon.

    You are assuming those payments were rent.

    Perhaps I fail to see the value in getting an occupant to confirm he is not paying rent. What woulld he be estopped from later claiming?

    All these arguments are speculative... we have only one side of the story.  Getting to the bottom of this mess is for a finder of fact, which is not necessarily the landlord tenant judge.

    Gimer Law516 Reviews
  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Kenny Lee

    Typically a dozen or even more evictions are scheduled for each docket.  Of course most won't show or a simple case of non-payment and are adjudicated within a few minutes

    However, it is not uncommon for a contested case to be reset if the judge thinks extra time will be needed

    While we all know what the ultimate result will be, the judge might want to verify deeds and such independently of documents furnished by either party before rendering a decision.  

    As stated earlier, even landlords fudge documents

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    This is the reason we have so many asinine laws and procedures, its because a small group of landlords/"investors" act so abhorrently towards tenants/homeowners that lawmakers and judges decided they have to go to extremes to prevent a reoccurrence. Enough homeowners suffer a fraud where they quit-claim their properties over to an individual for a "loan modification program" or a rent-to-own type deal that the judges become very cautions, and the rest of us honest participants suffer. Its reflected in Dodd-Frank, ADA, Fair Housing, local eviction laws, Etc - all of these came about because of a small group of people abused others to such an extreme level that the gov't swoops in and decides protections are needed and they go to the opposite extreme in their policies. Another good example is a wave of laws that prohibit background checks. Enough landlords used blanket-type policies that would exclude someone with a silly retail-theft charge from 20 years ago, that the lawmakers are gaining traction in some areas in banning background checks all together (even for murderers).

    I don't know about Chicago but back in 03 or so.. my Detroit vendors were already doing the buy a 3k house never look at it sell it to a sub prime borrower ( local) for 40k next day  1k down 300 a month for 20 years.. and the house its trashed the buyers of these would normally go strip the houses on the block.. :) to fix there's but the success rate of these buyers was next to zero..

    There was a guy on BP back a few years ago doing this model in San Antonio  he was buying 10k as is Junker's then selling them to Hispanic non English speakers for 70k on contract and he wanted CA investor to pay 50k for these notes and he made the delta.. He got thoroughly dragged through the mud on BP on this one.

    the NPN space that gets those re performing then sells the notes as performing notes is a little the same.. not quite but the risk to the new note buyer who does not understand the note business is quite high..

  • Keyonte SummersPro Member
    Harper Woods, MI · Member since 2017 · 384 posts · 311 votes
    8y

    Crazy @Keith Jourdan keeps us updated on the outcome. I havent had this issue with any of my tenants as of yet. This is one of the biggest things we hate to see as investors, and PM's

  • Property Manager · Metro Detroit, MI · Member since 2008 · 305 posts · 362 votes
    8y
    Went to court this morning . The tenant showed with no documentation . He asked the judge for another week to get his ducks in a row . The judge signed the vacate judgement , giving the tenant 10 days to leave . Tenant said he was going to appeal to circuit court , I doubt he has time . Hopefully this is over .
  • Investor · Ferndale, MI · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 19 votes
    8y

    @Keith Jourdan

    Sorry you had to deal with this and glad it's over. Thanks for sharing so we can learn from it!

  • Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 156 votes
    8y

    @Keith Jourdan - As an educational lesson for us all, may I ask how much you have spent out of pocket for the attorney/court fees, as well as how much you have lost from the non-payment of rent?  You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

    I do hope the sheriff arrives soon to give this tenant the boot.  This person is surely THE tenant from hell -- a career "criminal" tenant who is savvy on eviction laws/ loopholes. Good luck to you. 

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