Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
Since all of us Dallas folk are iced in this weekend and I am still trying to do my due diligence on my first MFH purchase, I have an interesting question.....do you sand your sidewalks and parking lots when it snows? Here in Dallas, I would think the equipment isn't readily available to do a decent job? Do you have any policies in place for these out of the ordinary events? What if a tenant gets hurt or their car crashes into other cars in the lot? Who is responsible? How do you avoid liability?
Real Estate Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2013 · 415 posts · 84 votes
12y
Well it is not recommended to do but if you want your sidewalks de iced.
You can always go get water softner salt. It does the trick when you dont have any other salt available. It is corrosive and not good for lawns/plants so use only what you need. Also know that there are large and small salt pellets. I would choose small myself if it was an option.
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Get up and go about my day the same as the other 100 days when there is snow and ice :)
Snow removal (for snowfall >4") and sanding (we try not to use salt) usually takes place before tenants are out of bed.
Liability will depend on what is in your lease. If you do not make efforts to clear walkways and stairs, then you could well be found negligent. As for drivers having accidents in the parking - perhaps they were not exercising due care in light of the conditions and their experience - that is why they carry insurance.
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
unfortunately when it snows or ices in Dallas, the entire town shuts down. The city barely has equipment to handle roads. Where does an individual landlord find supplies to take care of icy conditions?
Here you can buy them anywhere - supermarket, hardware store, etc.
Where it is rare occurrence in Dallas, you may be stuck? Do any of the big box stores (e.g. Home Depot) carry coarse salt (10-50lb bags)? Alternatively, you could probably get sand from a local gardening place and use that to provide traction on walkways and drives {it will be friendlier to your garden than salt as well}.
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
I have no idea as I've never shopped for sand or salt that purpose. Maybe some local apartment owners will chime in with what they have been doing the last few days of the Dallas ice-ma-gedon 2013.
Real Estate Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2013 · 415 posts · 84 votes
12y
Well it is not recommended to do but if you want your sidewalks de iced.
You can always go get water softner salt. It does the trick when you dont have any other salt available. It is corrosive and not good for lawns/plants so use only what you need. Also know that there are large and small salt pellets. I would choose small myself if it was an option.
Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2012 · 209 posts · 37 votes
12y
@Kim H. we actually trekked out on Friday to clean up our quad in Benbrook. Funny thing, a few of the tenants' kids actually helped us throw down the salt and they were generally happy to see us since they were all iced-in. Now, the decision to go on Friday was re-visted when we got back.... !! Lesson learned there.
Well it is not recommended to do but if you want your sidewalks de iced.
You can always go get water softner salt. It does the trick when you dont have any other salt available. It is corrosive and not good for lawns/plants so use only what you need. Also know that there are large and small salt pellets. I would choose small myself if it was an option.
Good luck!
Kim:
Kitty litter (the coarse pellet kind) will also work in a pinch ... for traction, it won't melt your ice.
Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2012 · 209 posts · 37 votes
12y
Has anyone had or heard of liability issues with ice-related accidents? My leases (acquired at purchase, not mine) don't speak to condition of the sidewalks and who maintains. I will be adding that as I churn tenants.
Real Estate Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2013 · 415 posts · 84 votes
12y
Up here its common to have that in a lease. However, for where its not common, IMO (whatever thats worth) I would think that if its a single family house and they take care of the lawn maintenance then they should do the sidewalks as well. If it is a multifamily and the lawn is hired out .. well the sidewalks/parking lot should be taken care of by the landlord..
I have a feeling if you want to cover you rear end you should probably just bite the bullet and go take care of all of the properties you have.. It would show that you did atleast try to be proactive in the safety of your tenants:)
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Plain kitty litter, not the flowery de-odderizing stuff, otherwise your vehicle and shoes will smell like wild flowers and cats will follow you. :) Yes, I'm bored!
Urbana, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 425 votes
12y
OKay, I'll admit I was being a bit judgmental that you had an ice storm. I was happy that we broke above 0 degrees this morning. But I did a little research and I'll agree it does look pretty bad.
Unfortunately, you'll have a lot of drivers not knowing how to drive. We have that every year after the first snow fall. Be careful driving to and from your properties.
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
Steven J. my son was two days from leaving to attend the University of Minnesota this fall. He changed his major at the last minute and forfeited his scholarship so stayed to attend a local university. I think I am thankful for more than one reason :)
@Adam Roberts I am thinking this is a potential liability issue (although very uncommon here). I can see a lawsuit if someone falls and busts their head open because I didn't sand before they stepped out of their apartment one morning. Plus, I am not wanting to be a hands on landlord. I don't know if the property management companies around here would do that kind of work as part of their contract either.
I did drive by an apartment complex today and it didn't look like any sanding had taken place...not that I agree, but that an ice storm is so uncommon here that landlords probably just don't have the means to deal with it. Doesn't mean someone won't sue and say they should have.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Just talked to the plow guy and signed the contract today, put the salt buckets out too so it was kind of funny seeing you talk about ice. I know it can be hard to deal with it in places where you don't usually get such weather.
For the multifamily we hire someone to plow and shovel (with insurance) and have sand/salt buckets at each walkway with a scoop. I don't expect tenant so do it but it is right there if you get a freeze up. It also means no one needs to run out and get some or look for it (if we remember before it gets cold). We also are covered by our own liability insurance.
For single families it says they are responsible in the lease. That being said we often have to throw some ice melt down when we do showings on the single families in the winter as the tenants don't do such a good job. Sand is goo for traction too. I had never heard of using kitty litter.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Well, I have a 14' inflatable river raft, thinking about blowing it up and lashing it around the front of my truck. It will cut the air to the grill and warm faster and if anyone gets in my way I'll have the biggest bumper car out there! Don't know, might be hard to see over it, but I'd think most folks will get out of my way when they see me coming.
Anyway, I'm outta here, I'm going somewhere, don't know where but it doesn't really matter.
Oh, BTW, the city here requires property owners to clear sidewalks. Tenants can, but if they get hurt.....hmmmm? and if they fail to do it the owner gets tagged. Call the snow folks that clear parking lots. Later...
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
I just did an internet search for contractors who will clear snow or ice. Came up with nothing. I am sure a craigslist post looking for someone would get the phone ringing in a pinch.
I doubt we have any city ordinances here but I'm adding this to my list of things to figure out during my due diligence. My husband says "just cancel and I will put the money in the stock market and just take my chances. Too much drama with MFH."
OKay, I'll admit I was being a bit judgmental that you had an ice storm. I was happy that we broke above 0 degrees this morning. But I did a little research and I'll agree it does look pretty bad.
Unfortunately, you'll have a lot of drivers not knowing how to drive. We have that every year after the first snow fall. Be careful driving to and from your properties.
@Steven J. Agree with you.... not only that, but DFW doesn't have enough equipment to make the roads passable after something like this (I wouldn't expect them to, very rare event). I'm looking at my street now... it's still and ice rink 3 days later.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@ Kim H. try landscape companies, that is who does it around here. Also could try asking associations with private roads who they get.
@Bill Gulley Lucky us we have no ordinance here but it isn't exactly a city so they are clearing only the path to their car. Where I grew up they had that ordinance and my dad put dirt/grass on the sidewalk. No more shoveling !(but that sidewalk was not exactly a continuous path to anywhere...)
Lets keep an eye out for Bill's rubber rafted truck on the news.
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
I think I will give my property manager the task of figuring this out. Luckily if I continue with my contract, I won't close until April and probably won't have tenants until May. We have a year to figure it out.
Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2012 · 588 posts · 224 votes
12y
After this weekend, I plan on going on and stocking up on hose bib covers and salt and just putting it up in my attic. I have a few houses being rehabbed and I had to pay for an $8 version of a hose bib cover because thats all they had. Luckily the houses aren't occupied so I just turned off the water and tried to drain the systems as best I could.
Next time I'll be better prepared.
To add to @Kim H. 's question. How about this scenario. Ice falling off of MFH roofs.
Real Estate Broker · Dallas · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 10 votes
12y
I just found that Dallas actually has an ordinance that snow must be removed from public sidewalks and walkways within 3 hours and is the responsibility of owners, tenants, lessees, etc. So we are all responsible.