Massive Houston Apartment Default: Is the Multifamily Market in Trouble?

Massive Houston Apartment Default: Is the Multifamily Market in Trouble?

Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes

The recent default of Houston apartment-building investor, Applesway Investment Group, has raised concerns about the impact of rising interest rates on real estate investments. The company borrowed nearly $230 million to purchase four separate apartment complexes with more than 3,200 units during the pandemic. However, the rising interest rates forced Applesway to default on its loans, leading to the foreclosure of the properties by Arbor Realty Trust. New York-based Fundamental Partners reportedly purchased the Houston properties for below the value of the loan.

The default of Applesway Investment Group has highlighted the risks associated with investing in real estate, particularly with floating-rate mortgages that are subject to changes in interest rates. As the Federal Reserve continues to raise interest rates to curb inflation, investors in floating-rate mortgages are likely to face higher borrowing costs, which could lead to defaults and foreclosures. However, despite these risks, rising interest rates can also create buying opportunities for investors in the long run, particularly as bridge loans and rate caps bought in 2020-2022 mature.

One of the main reasons why rising interest rates can create buying opportunities is that they tend to reduce the competition for real estate investments. As the cost of borrowing increases, many investors may choose to pull out of the market or delay their investments, leaving more opportunities for those who are willing to take the risk. Additionally, rising interest rates can also lead to lower property prices, as some investors may be forced to sell their properties to pay off their maturing debts. This can create attractive buying opportunities for investors who have the financial resources to weather short-term fluctuations in the market.

While the default of Applesway Investment Group highlights the risks associated with investing in real estate, particularly with floating-rate mortgages, rising interest rates can also create buying opportunities for investors in the long run. As bridge loans and rate caps bought in 2020-2022 mature, investors with the financial resources to weather short-term fluctuations in the market may be able to take advantage of lower property prices and higher returns on investment. 

In conclusion, our team is eagerly anticipating the buying opportunities in the multifamily market caused by rising interest rates and maturing loans. We are proactively taking steps to position ourselves for success by strengthening relationships with our key principals so we are confident that we’ll still have access to debt even when and if banking lending standards tighten. We are also maintaining our relationships with our passive investors to ensure we have fast access to equity for the right opportunities. Moreover, we are making sure that our underwriting policies are sound and conservative. I always stress to my team that we need 6-8 months of operating reserves in our underwriting to help mitigate risks like what I mentioned above.  In addition, we are working with an asset manager who has experience managing multifamily properties during downturns to help us navigate any potential challenges. We also have experienced boots on the ground team members so we can continue to specialize our familiarity with our markets street by street. Lastly, we are actively talking to every broker and apartment owner in our markets so we can see every multifamily opportunity that meets our criteria and that other groups may not have access to.

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Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
3y

I sound like a broken record but people (including the Fed) have been underestimating the impact of higher rates for an extended period of time.  Stuff is breaking.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y

    I sound like a broken record but people (including the Fed) have been underestimating the impact of higher rates for an extended period of time.  Stuff is breaking.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

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  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jason MalabuteThe default of Applesway Investment Group has highlighted the risks associated with investing in real estate

    While the default of Applesway Investment Group highlights the risks associated with investing in real estate,

    I'd argue buying into an illiquid fund where you have no say is investing in a sponsor, not real estate. 

    So duh. Overpaying, over-projecting and using floating and or short term debt spells problems no matter what you're buying. 

    If you buy 'passively' you are speculating on a sponsor.  Period.  Vet well.  

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    This is just another Silicon Valley Bank/First Republic Bank-related issue. Basically, any debt holder from a low-rate environment would not be able to sustain a higher-rate environment, there's always "friendly collateral damage" when gov. is raising the rate and it does occur too often. On other hand, residential real estate is safe because we keep the loan fixed for 30 years. But in any other country, 2 years ARM is normal hence in another country, seeing people losing their homes after the gov. rate spike is normal.

    However, this gives an opportunity to an "opportunistic" funds to buy down those debts at a massive discount, it's just the debt holder of low rate/MF investors would be wiped out. For operators of the fund/trust/MF, they don't care, they would just change their name, and raise another fund. It's an investor that's losing money.

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason MalabuteThe default of Applesway Investment Group has highlighted the risks associated with investing in real estate

    While the default of Applesway Investment Group highlights the risks associated with investing in real estate,

    I'd argue buying into an illiquid fund where you have no say is investing in a sponsor, not real estate. 

    So duh. Overpaying, over-projecting and using floating and or short term debt spells problems no matter what you're buying. 

    If you buy 'passively' you are speculating on a sponsor.  Period.  Vet well.  


    I read Trepp-wire regularly to make me more risk-aware, I guess all kind of sponsor got hit these days, from Blackstone to First Republic Bank to all big REIT name in the space.

    Multifamily perhaps is not the biggest issue in town but office space is. It's brutal for office.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.


     I think it may have been this company. As a sponsor and an investor, you are correct that I had not seen any sensitivity analysis based on higher cap rates - but prior to leaving my W2 job we were working on some projects and we were modeling them for a 1% cap increase (as this was 2020 when the ownership was pretty confident interest rates were going to rise - they did not predict this high but had factored). Experienced people could see the increase but could not predict the amount. BUT those that saw it coming also were not touching any financing that had floating rates. 

    So lets play devils advocate - no one factored this in - but how many sponsors have gone back to their investors and provided new models that may show new timeframes, capital calls or other ways to manage the current situations. How many are calling their lenders to try and work something out? I bet the well experienced operators are doing this and have been doing this for a period of time to work some type of resolution. 

    I would want to see a model of what happens if we sell now, how much equity is needed to cover the DSCR and what horizon are we talking about?

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  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.


     200%.

    Currently the mortgage lending spread of 2023 between bank and lender is matching the level of 2008 spread !!!!!!

    What does it means in positive way ? it means it's good time to be long too, invest in debt securization that has much more reward/risk and IRR of north of 20% after the spread become normalized.

    lot of PE funds is buying back its own losing money debts lol ......

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.


     I think it may have been this company. As a sponsor and an investor, you are correct that I had not seen any sensitivity analysis based on higher cap rates - but prior to leaving my W2 job we were working on some projects and we were modeling them for a 1% cap increase (as this was 2020 when the ownership was pretty confident interest rates were going to rise - they did not predict this high but had factored). Experienced people could see the increase but could not predict the amount. BUT those that saw it coming also were not touching any financing that had floating rates. 

    So lets play devils advocate - no one factored this in - but how many sponsors have gone back to their investors and provided new models that may show new timeframes, capital calls or other ways to manage the current situations. How many are calling their lenders to try and work something out? I bet the well experienced operators are doing this and have been doing this for a period of time to work some type of resolution. 

    What I found to be very silly about this, Chris, is I know for sure in summer 2021 that the Fed would increase rate. How do I know ? becaue Fed started the REPO project in huge number, it's data is available in public https://www.newyorkfed.org/mar...

    This is very early indication that Fed would, in almost certainty, would tighten their belt.

    This is also reason why I sell some of holdings in 2021 by Q2 (and not investing too much into syndication). However, I'm still surprised those MF operator don't know how to factor the increase of interest rate.  

  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 584 posts · 738 votes
    3y

    Its good to keep any eye on it and learn from it or use it as a model. For investors that are not at that scale/level, it may not have too much impact. For those that have scaled and grown to that scale, they might be able to take the opportunity to snatch some up, tighten up their current holdings, or reevaluate their current models.

    Luckily, I am no where near that. As a small time mom and pop investor, it do take note and it has cause me to do more stress tests on my current holdings. There was a small window of time (last year) that I wanted to try my hand at syndication but after sitting back and evaluating what is really important to me, I think I'll just hop along slowly.

    Interesting development. Gotta see if this spreads as Q2 moves into Q3.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y

    Ok, so let me make sure I got this straight: 

    They over-leveraged big time, had limited experience, used short term floating rate finance, and when it all implodes...... it's the markets / interest rates fault....... 

    So if one hit's there head into a brick wall repeatedly, when they get a headache, it's the brick walls fault???? 

    Ever hear of self-fulfilling prophecy? 

  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason MalabuteThe default of Applesway Investment Group has highlighted the risks associated with investing in real estate

    While the default of Applesway Investment Group highlights the risks associated with investing in real estate,

    I'd argue buying into an illiquid fund where you have no say is investing in a sponsor, not real estate. 

    So duh. Overpaying, over-projecting and using floating and or short term debt spells problems no matter what you're buying. 

    If you buy 'passively' you are speculating on a sponsor.  Period.  Vet well.  


     unfortunately that's how people were buying in last few years. Even today in the midwest you have some buyers paying $100k+ per door with rents being at most $900-1000. Average OPEX is $5k+. You need to rehab property and interest rates are at 6-8%. I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio 

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  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:

    I sound like a broken record but people (including the Fed) have been underestimating the impact of higher rates for an extended period of time.  Stuff is breaking.


     :)

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  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

    This is just another Silicon Valley Bank/First Republic Bank-related issue. Basically, any debt holder from a low-rate environment would not be able to sustain a higher-rate environment, there's always "friendly collateral damage" when gov. is raising the rate and it does occur too often. On other hand, residential real estate is safe because we keep the loan fixed for 30 years. But in any other country, 2 years ARM is normal hence in another country, seeing people losing their homes after the gov. rate spike is normal.

    However, this gives an opportunity to an "opportunistic" funds to buy down those debts at a massive discount, it's just the debt holder of low rate/MF investors would be wiped out. For operators of the fund/trust/MF, they don't care, they would just change their name, and raise another fund. It's an investor that's losing money.


     The writing was on the wall in 2021 that we were on top of the market then. He should have started to get the ball rolling to refinance the loan the day after he closed

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  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.


     same deal/sponsor

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  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Mike Dymski:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    If interest rates remain well above cap rates for an extended period and maturing debt reprices to current levels, there will be more reasons for foreclosure than #1 and #2 above.  I have reviewed over a thousand offering packages and no sponsors' sensitivity analysis stressed interest rates and the related possible exit cap rates at these extreme levels.  No one in their right mind would forecast increasing the money supply by 40% and pumping $7 trillion into the economy (except politicians). 

    Incidentally, wasn't there another recent story about another Houston sponsor who had a 100% capital call and then fled the country?  I thought I read an article on it.


     I think it may have been this company. As a sponsor and an investor, you are correct that I had not seen any sensitivity analysis based on higher cap rates - but prior to leaving my W2 job we were working on some projects and we were modeling them for a 1% cap increase (as this was 2020 when the ownership was pretty confident interest rates were going to rise - they did not predict this high but had factored). Experienced people could see the increase but could not predict the amount. BUT those that saw it coming also were not touching any financing that had floating rates. 

    So lets play devils advocate - no one factored this in - but how many sponsors have gone back to their investors and provided new models that may show new timeframes, capital calls or other ways to manage the current situations. How many are calling their lenders to try and work something out? I bet the well experienced operators are doing this and have been doing this for a period of time to work some type of resolution. 

    I would want to see a model of what happens if we sell now, how much equity is needed to cover the DSCR and what horizon are we talking about?


     I stress tested and I  use 1% higher terminal cap rates. Probably why I wasn't winning deals lol

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  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs


     During Asia Great Depression in the 1990, currency depleted by 500%, military tanks on the street.
    Bank Owner is running with the physical money of the depositor flying somewhere to a village located in north of China or near North Korea maybe hahaha

    and apartment owner replaced customer money that's being 99% lost with 2 refrigerator hahahaha, Jason ... please.... LOL

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs


    anyone wishing for a depression surely has limited experience in the RE world.. its not just Real Estate its all business and the toll it takes on humanity is simply not worth what ever upside the wish for a depression camp thinks they will enjoy..  regardless if you have a true depression unless you have cash your no partaking anyway and are probably going to get hammered along with everyone else.  In my mind wishing for depressions and crash's is just very ignorant and short sighted thinking.
  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs


    anyone wishing for a depression surely has limited experience in the RE world.. its not just Real Estate its all business and the toll it takes on humanity is simply not worth what ever upside the wish for a depression camp thinks they will enjoy..  regardless if you have a true depression unless you have cash your no partaking anyway and are probably going to get hammered along with everyone else.  In my mind wishing for depressions and crash's is just very ignorant and short sighted thinking.

     My thoughts exactly, Jay.  Thank you for sharing.  

  • Real Estate Consultant · Reston, VA · Member since 2022 · 513 posts · 521 votes
    3y

    Before transitioning to FT REI, I saw a similar theme at my previous employer. There was floating rate debt on a lot of the value add properties and rates were very high plus the escrow for the rate cap doubled that led to cash flow being wiped in a few months. Ended up having to put money in the deal to fund operations at properties that were cash flowing and distributing very nicely late last year.

  • Developer · Houston TX · Member since 2018 · 423 posts · 400 votes
    3y

    If anyone calls Powell an idiot or says he was too slow to react to the recession, they are not realizing that back in 2018, during their meeting, they stated or wished for an event that would help make inflation extra hot so they could raise rates and gain back the power needed to help combat next recession. Guess COVID was what they wished for. I can't imagine the number of PHDs in that Fed building but we want to think they are stupid. They know what they are doing and unlike us, they are happy banks are failing and housing is coming down. The issue I see is many people compare what is happening to 2008 as their way of predicting what will happen next; however, history didn't start in 2008--look further back at 1930s and 1970s high inflation/high-interest rates leading us into bad times for a long period of time.

    Some people say they will jump into the market when it crashes. But they don't consider how they'll buy these deals. They assume the market will crash, but financing will remain the same. I remember at the start of COVID our commercial banker told us he was only lending at 60% LTV. Fear can tighten financial markets, and only those with experience and cash will prevail. We're only seeing the start of this downturn, but rookies are jumping in as if the market had flattened out. The 2008 crash didn't happen overnight--it started back in 2006 in certain parts of the country but became widespread in 2008.

    Though new syndicators are still using old playbooks, raising cash will not be easy for them. Many newly constructed properties will be coming online in the near future, and there are many existing newly built single-family properties that cannot be sold, thus creating more inventory as rentals. So, there will be a lot of deals in all asset classes. However, with fewer tenants willing to move out of their current apartments and into newer ones, landlords may have to offer incentives such as one-month free rent in order to get new tenants into their buildings.

    I hope that passive investors and general partners who are raising money for current deals will realize that their old playbook won't work if our market heads into a glut. Using an internal rate of return (IRR) and making predictions about what three to five years will hold is, in my opinion, deceptive. Snake oil salesmen are attempting to manipulate numbers to serve themselves. It's fine to need to keep doing deals so you can live off the fees from limited partners (LPs), but be ethical. If you haven't seen a downturn before then hold off doing deals until you have enough capital and people on your team who have experience and can advise.

    In the last few years, anyone in real estate regardless of how dumb you were in High School made money. The new market will filter out the real investors. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Mike Dymski

    Stuff is breaking but the above post in my opinion was because of an inexperienced sponsor who had very little real estate experience.

    Yes there will be issues in MF and commercial which many people will lose their buildings but it always goes back to one of two things:

    1. Poor management

    2. Over leveraged

    I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it.

    Your comment:  "I never have seen anyone lose a property that didn’t have debt on it."

    Depends, do you consider property taxes debt? 

    If someone has a home "free & clear" but doesn't pay their property tax, what happens? I'm not even asking the obvious question of how moral is it for government to tax and take people's property? I think John Adams and Alexander Hamilton would be there with their shootin' irons protecting their property. (These are the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence for those of you who went to public school.) ;-)

  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs


     whatever it takes

    Malabute & Company CPAs525 Reviews
  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    OP
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 907 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute:
    Quote from @Steve Vaughan:
    Quote from @Jason Malabute
    I hope we go into a depression so I can really ramp up my portfolio.

    Really?  A depression? Depressions are devastating.   

    The only people that think a recession even is a great time to invest in large MF are the people that weren't old enough to feel the last one - not just move back to mommie's basement.

    Credit vanishes,  especially commercial. Try operating in that environment.

    Maybe Jay has a moment to enlighten us further. @Jay Hinrichs


    anyone wishing for a depression surely has limited experience in the RE world.. its not just Real Estate its all business and the toll it takes on humanity is simply not worth what ever upside the wish for a depression camp thinks they will enjoy..  regardless if you have a true depression unless you have cash your no partaking anyway and are probably going to get hammered along with everyone else.  In my mind wishing for depressions and crash's is just very ignorant and short sighted thinking.

     My thoughts exactly, Jay.  Thank you for sharing.  


     most wealth is built during downturns 

    Malabute & Company CPAs525 Reviews
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