Best Section 8 Markets
Member since 2023 · 18 posts · 15 votes
Best Section 8 Markets
Most Popular Reply
Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes@Sean Doyle - Toledo is the only city I operate in. I have found enough business and made enough money not to need to expand outside of this market.
Section 8 is a whole different ball game but I find the program is unique in that it's a 3-party relationship adding the variable of a government agency. The ways around that are to build a business around supporting their voucher and inspection program and spending no small amount of effort ensuring they are smoothly servicing your rentals.
I also advise participating in regular meetings with them. Ours is Lucas County Housing (LMH, previously LMHA). I serve on committees when able, and generally be understanding that a program aligned with our federal HUD is going to have it's inefficiencies. The result is we have supervisors and executives we can reach out to assist us if a property is truly being ignored by a case manager.
Is it work? Hell, yes. This is the foundation of why LaPlante Real Estate is based in portfolio management and property management... my personal portfolio started in 2009 and I find the majority tends to be Section 8.
Does it make money? Well, my original SFH purchased in 2010 still has its original S8 resident. I believe it started at $700/mo in the good old days of the recession and is now up to $1000 (undervalue about $150 for that area). The resident is great and the rent rate reflects that.
BiggerPockets has a TON of misconceptions about renting. The first misconception is that you can declare a property headed onto the market only S8 eligible, refusing to consider traditional applicants. The second that the ~$1400 face value of a 3 bedroom voucher is going to get you that rent rate). It's not that different from a normal rent increase. Very commonly the resident pays a portion of the rent so your rent increase will affect their budget and their lives.
It's not free government money being given to careless, loafing, dead end residents. @James Wise gonna have to disagree with the "lie cheat steal" concept regarding residents.
Any resident has the potential to be less than desirable. In my 15 yrs investing in Toledo, operating S8 rentals, I have not found a statistical difference between normal and subsidized residents. If anything, when you accept rentals in the higher-end neighborhoods, the rent rate exceeds the voucher limit, meaning the resident has to have their own income in order to qualify. These I have found are real, striving parents, working their butts off to provide the best housing and school system for their children.
My ethos in this approach is exactly why we at LaPlante refer to them as Residents, as we consider "Tenant and Landlord" to be dated terms and rife with negative emotion. We spend our time here in Toledo providing responsibly managed housing and treating our residents with the respect any of us on this forum would appreciate.
30 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Ohio my man. Cleveland, Akron, Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo and a few other cities. Big money. Just gotta understand that Section 8 investing is a brutal game. The tenants will lie, cheat, and steal at any given opportunity.
- Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 5 votes2y
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Ive also also heard akron, clevland, detriot, south carolina, north caronlina also. Im going to get in and doing my research also
- 2yMike PaolucciBusiness MemberRealtor · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 499 posts · 553 votesColumbus has treated me pretty well when it comes to Section 8. Trick is to make sure you vet your tenants thoroughly. Lots of upside for ROI.
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Happy to answer any questions.
Reafco - Mike Paolucci 512 Reviews - 2yAndrew FidlerBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
@Sean Doyle - Toledo is the only city I operate in. I have found enough business and made enough money not to need to expand outside of this market.
Section 8 is a whole different ball game but I find the program is unique in that it's a 3-party relationship adding the variable of a government agency. The ways around that are to build a business around supporting their voucher and inspection program and spending no small amount of effort ensuring they are smoothly servicing your rentals.
I also advise participating in regular meetings with them. Ours is Lucas County Housing (LMH, previously LMHA). I serve on committees when able, and generally be understanding that a program aligned with our federal HUD is going to have it's inefficiencies. The result is we have supervisors and executives we can reach out to assist us if a property is truly being ignored by a case manager.
Is it work? Hell, yes. This is the foundation of why LaPlante Real Estate is based in portfolio management and property management... my personal portfolio started in 2009 and I find the majority tends to be Section 8.
Does it make money? Well, my original SFH purchased in 2010 still has its original S8 resident. I believe it started at $700/mo in the good old days of the recession and is now up to $1000 (undervalue about $150 for that area). The resident is great and the rent rate reflects that.
BiggerPockets has a TON of misconceptions about renting. The first misconception is that you can declare a property headed onto the market only S8 eligible, refusing to consider traditional applicants. The second that the ~$1400 face value of a 3 bedroom voucher is going to get you that rent rate). It's not that different from a normal rent increase. Very commonly the resident pays a portion of the rent so your rent increase will affect their budget and their lives.
It's not free government money being given to careless, loafing, dead end residents. @James Wise gonna have to disagree with the "lie cheat steal" concept regarding residents.
Any resident has the potential to be less than desirable. In my 15 yrs investing in Toledo, operating S8 rentals, I have not found a statistical difference between normal and subsidized residents. If anything, when you accept rentals in the higher-end neighborhoods, the rent rate exceeds the voucher limit, meaning the resident has to have their own income in order to qualify. These I have found are real, striving parents, working their butts off to provide the best housing and school system for their children.
My ethos in this approach is exactly why we at LaPlante refer to them as Residents, as we consider "Tenant and Landlord" to be dated terms and rife with negative emotion. We spend our time here in Toledo providing responsibly managed housing and treating our residents with the respect any of us on this forum would appreciate.
- 2yStuart UdisPro MemberAttorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I don't personally own any properties leased to housing choice voucher recipients but heard from others who are having trouble leasing their properties. They are citing a lot of inventory competing for the same tenants. This will likely differ depending on the market. However, I have also personally seen a big push towards investing in affordable housing. A lot of money has been raised in recent years to invest in this thesis. Section 8 rentals are frequently located in extremely low barrier of entry markets, especially the single-family homes and small multi-family properties which I assume has also led to an influx of inventory. In Philadelphia, which is where I am located there was a recent re-set on rents that are significantly higher and suspect the increased rents will cause more investors to turn to the program which may cause more lease-up issues. This is merely what I am hearing along with some suspicions. Others who are active within the program may have other intel to share.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Andrew Fidler:
@Sean Doyle - Toledo is the only city I operate in. I have found enough business and made enough money not to need to expand outside of this market.
Section 8 is a whole different ball game but I find the program is unique in that it's a 3-party relationship adding the variable of a government agency. The ways around that are to build a business around supporting their voucher and inspection program and spending no small amount of effort ensuring they are smoothly servicing your rentals.
I also advise participating in regular meetings with them. Ours is Lucas County Housing (LMH, previously LMHA). I serve on committees when able, and generally be understanding that a program aligned with our federal HUD is going to have it's inefficiencies. The result is we have supervisors and executives we can reach out to assist us if a property is truly being ignored by a case manager.
Is it work? Hell, yes. This is the foundation of why LaPlante Real Estate is based in portfolio management and property management... my personal portfolio started in 2009 and I find the majority tends to be Section 8.
Does it make money? Well, my original SFH purchased in 2010 still has its original S8 resident. I believe it started at $700/mo in the good old days of the recession and is now up to $1000 (undervalue about $150 for that area). The resident is great and the rent rate reflects that.
BiggerPockets has a TON of misconceptions about renting. The first misconception is that you can declare a property headed onto the market only S8 eligible, refusing to consider traditional applicants. The second that the ~$1400 face value of a 3 bedroom voucher is going to get you that rent rate). It's not that different from a normal rent increase. Very commonly the resident pays a portion of the rent so your rent increase will affect their budget and their lives.
It's not free government money being given to careless, loafing, dead end residents. @James Wise gonna have to disagree with the "lie cheat steal" concept regarding residents.
Any resident has the potential to be less than desirable. In my 15 yrs investing in Toledo, operating S8 rentals, I have not found a statistical difference between normal and subsidized residents. If anything, when you accept rentals in the higher-end neighborhoods, the rent rate exceeds the voucher limit, meaning the resident has to have their own income in order to qualify. These I have found are real, striving parents, working their butts off to provide the best housing and school system for their children.
My ethos in this approach is exactly why we at LaPlante refer to them as Residents, as we consider "Tenant and Landlord" to be dated terms and rife with negative emotion. We spend our time here in Toledo providing responsibly managed housing and treating our residents with the respect any of us on this forum would appreciate.
You don't think grown adults who cannot (or will not) pay for their own housing are statistically more irresponsible than grown adults who do pay for their own housing? That's some funky math bro.
- 2yCheryl MackPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Wake Forest NC · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 26 votes
No, I Don't think that having housing assistance equates to irresponsible behavior. I have been in many properties where private pay people rented and trashed the place. Despite having generous incomes, some of them are utterly irresponsible with the property and leave a disaster behind when they move. I don't see that the rate of bad behavior is higher among voucher residents.
What I do see is that a strong screening process improves your chances of getting a responsible resident. And all properties need to be managed and supervised numerous times per year; giving residents the idea that no one is watching and/or no one cares will be a sure recipe for disaster. Many voucher holders are grateful for secure housing and are acutely aware of their responsibilities under the program. Those who blow it off eventually lose eligibility.
- Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 37 votes2y
I also have multiple tenants in the Ohio market that are part of the voucher program (CMHA & Eden). My experience has been good the past few years. I make sure I screen each potential tenant thoroughly (background and credit checks) and require references. This process has been working really well for me. I use to rent to Section 8 in Philly but the program started to be too much of a headache.
Realtor® | Licensed in PA & NJ
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Cheryl Mack:
No, I Don't think that having housing assistance equates to irresponsible behavior. I have been in many properties where private pay people rented and trashed the place. Despite having generous incomes, some of them are utterly irresponsible with the property and leave a disaster behind when they move. I don't see that the rate of bad behavior is higher among voucher residents.
What I do see is that a strong screening process improves your chances of getting a responsible resident. And all properties need to be managed and supervised numerous times per year; giving residents the idea that no one is watching and/or no one cares will be a sure recipe for disaster. Many voucher holders are grateful for secure housing and are acutely aware of their responsibilities under the program. Those who blow it off eventually lose eligibility.
To ignore the correlations is nonsense. There are trends that all of us who've dealt with 1,000's of voucher holders have seen. Myself, I specialize in Section 8 and low income properties. I prefer Section 8 tenants to low income cash paying tenants but there is a damn good reason why many landlords won't put voucher holders in high end properties. Voucher holders are wildely more risky than tenants who can afford to rent high end properties.
- Member since 2022 · 2 posts · 0 votes2y
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
I also have multiple tenants in the Ohio market that are part of the voucher program (CMHA & Eden). My experience has been good the past few years. I make sure I screen each potential tenant thoroughly (background and credit checks) and require references. This process has been working really well for me. I use to rent to Section 8 in Philly but the program started to be too much of a headache.
Realtor® | Licensed in PA & NJ
@Shawn Washington what about the program in Philly became too much of a headache? I have a property in Philly and thinking of renting to the program
- Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 37 votes2y
Quote from @Serina Bellamy:
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
I also have multiple tenants in the Ohio market that are part of the voucher program (CMHA & Eden). My experience has been good the past few years. I make sure I screen each potential tenant thoroughly (background and credit checks) and require references. This process has been working really well for me. I use to rent to Section 8 in Philly but the program started to be too much of a headache.
Realtor® | Licensed in PA & NJ
@Shawn Washington what about the program in Philly became too much of a headache? I have a property in Philly and thinking of renting to the program
@Serina Bellamy, Inspectors would fail items that were previously passed during prior inspections. They would withhold rent for minor items that were caused by the tenants. Ex: tenant daughter (that wasn't on the lease and shouldn't have been residing in the property) broke one of the railing spindles and didn't notify me. During inspection they found me at fault and withheld rent for 2 months (that's how long it took to re-inspect). It passed re-inspection but they only paid me for 1 month. Told me the violation wasn't corrected in the 30 days required timeframe (yes you are correct, the repairs were done in time but they didn't come out to confirm).
One of the best was when they told me the radiator in the kitchen is warm and should be hotter. I used the radiator key to let the air out and 10 mins later the radiator was hot. Inspector refused to check it even though he was still in the property finishing up the inspection. They withheld rent for 3 months for this one (time it took to re-inspect). I received 2 months after re-inspect with the same excuse. I had multiple cases like this for several of my properties. This was about 5 years ago and I hear it's much better now.
- Member since 2022 · 2 posts · 0 votes2y
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
Quote from @Serina Bellamy:
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
I also have multiple tenants in the Ohio market that are part of the voucher program (CMHA & Eden). My experience has been good the past few years. I make sure I screen each potential tenant thoroughly (background and credit checks) and require references. This process has been working really well for me. I use to rent to Section 8 in Philly but the program started to be too much of a headache.
Realtor® | Licensed in PA & NJ
@Shawn Washington what about the program in Philly became too much of a headache? I have a property in Philly and thinking of renting to the program
@Serina Bellamy, Inspectors would fail items that were previously passed during prior inspections. They would withhold rent for minor items that were caused by the tenants. Ex: tenant daughter (that wasn't on the lease and shouldn't have been residing in the property) broke one of the railing spindles and didn't notify me. During inspection they found me at fault and withheld rent for 2 months (that's how long it took to re-inspect). It passed re-inspection but they only paid me for 1 month. Told me the violation wasn't corrected in the 30 days required timeframe (yes you are correct, the repairs were done in time but they didn't come out to confirm).
One of the best was when they told me the radiator in the kitchen is warm and should be hotter. I used the radiator key to let the air out and 10 mins later the radiator was hot. Inspector refused to check it even though he was still in the property finishing up the inspection. They withheld rent for 3 months for this one (time it took to re-inspect). I received 2 months after re-inspect with the same excuse. I had multiple cases like this for several of my properties. This was about 5 years ago and I hear it's much better now.
Oh wow - thanks for these insights. I've been going back and forth on whether I should do the program or not and it's really helpful to hear about your experiences with it.
- 2yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Dealing with S8 tenants successfully requires proper screening.
One of the best screening tools is to inspect their current home - how it looks is how yours will look within 90 days or less. Best way to do this, you want it to be a surprise so you see how they really live, is to setup a Zoom call with them at home to go over some "questions". Then you ask them to show you their kitchen, bathroom and one or two other rooms (basement or living room).
Logical Property Management4.9454 Reviews - Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland, I just got 875 for a two br,
- Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2019 · 90 posts · 41 votes2y
Pensacola, FL
Properties are pretty cheap. They do need some updating because most were built in the 1960's, but I just bought a property in June and listed it for rent and had about 50 people ask if I took Section 8. The tenant I ended up going with actually helped me out a lot with setting everything up. You can run background checks on them like you normally would any tenant.
- Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 37 votes2y
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland, I just got 875 for a two br,
@Bob S. is that for a 2 bedroom on the West side?
- 2yNadiyah MalbonBusiness MemberRealtor · NJ · Member since 2020 · 104 posts · 31 votes
I'm in New Jersey and recently listed 3 apartments in Newark, NJ . I have received over 120 inquires and 65% of the applicants were Section 8 recipients. The typical days on market for these apartment are 20-25 days.
Nadiyah Malbon Group (NMG) 4.941 Reviews - Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2yNo east ,
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland, I just got 875 for a two br,
@Bob S. is that for a 2 bedroom on the West side?
- Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 116 posts · 37 votes2y
Quote from @Bob S.:
No east ,Quote from @Shawn Washington:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland, I just got 875 for a two br,
@Bob S. is that for a 2 bedroom on the West side?
@Bob S. thanks, I have a vacant 2 bedroom unit I'm about to list on the east side. If you know any qualified applicants you can have them contact me. Thanks.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes2yI get 20 calls a week, tenants are the easy part,
Quote from @Shawn Washington:
Quote from @Bob S.:
No east ,Quote from @Shawn Washington:
Quote from @Bob S.:
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland, I just got 875 for a two br,
@Bob S. is that for a 2 bedroom on the West side?
@Bob S. thanks, I have a vacant 2 bedroom unit I'm about to list on the east side. If you know any qualified applicants you can have them contact me. Thanks.
- Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes1y
Hey Mike, I would like to Learn more about the Detroit market? Do you recommend any realtors that specialize in Section 8.
- Rental Property Investor · Perry Hall, MD · Member since 2016 · 588 posts · 600 votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Cheryl Mack:
No, I Don't think that having housing assistance equates to irresponsible behavior. I have been in many properties where private pay people rented and trashed the place. Despite having generous incomes, some of them are utterly irresponsible with the property and leave a disaster behind when they move. I don't see that the rate of bad behavior is higher among voucher residents.
What I do see is that a strong screening process improves your chances of getting a responsible resident. And all properties need to be managed and supervised numerous times per year; giving residents the idea that no one is watching and/or no one cares will be a sure recipe for disaster. Many voucher holders are grateful for secure housing and are acutely aware of their responsibilities under the program. Those who blow it off eventually lose eligibility.
To ignore the correlations is nonsense. There are trends that all of us who've dealt with 1,000's of voucher holders have seen. Myself, I specialize in Section 8 and low income properties. I prefer Section 8 tenants to low income cash paying tenants but there is a damn good reason why many landlords won't put voucher holders in high end properties. Voucher holders are wildely more risky than tenants who can afford to rent high end properties.
I invest in an area where voucher rates are significantly higher than market rents so my portfolio is largely occupied by section 8 tenants. I agree with @James Wise on this one. It's anecdotal but while some of my best tenants have been on section 8, all of my worst tenants have been on section 8.
- Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Quote from @Sean Doyle:
Hi all,
Curious on peoples thoughts for best Section 8 markets that they have/are currently invested in.
Thanks, Sean
Cleveland is and has been the best overall rental market for 10 or so years. All in 115kish with 1500- 1700 rent, All in duplex 135kihs, rents 2k . I got another yesterday all in 80k, rent will be , 1600,
- 1yAdam CzachorPro MemberMember since 2019 · 14 posts · 5 votes
@Bob Stevens,
Are you purchasing all cash and are they value add properties? When you say I got another one, is that for a client or do you keep them all?
TIA.
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