Mass deportations: will it affect rental markets?
Real Estate Professional · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 225 posts · 74 votes
Mass deportations: will it affect rental markets?
Most Popular Reply
Mike TerryPro Member
Investor · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2015 · 292 posts · 278 votesQuote from @Alex Silang:
There are 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. If even just a quarter of them are removed, don't you think it would greatly affect housing markets? That'd be 2-3 million people not needing housing in the US any longer.
The country has massive debts and deficits. Our federal government, operationally does not function very effectively and certainly not efficiently. The cost to remove just one illegal will be in the thousands and way the government operates probably 100's of thousands of dollars. I don't see any possible way to accomplish this goal. The last Trump administration was much more show and bluster than it was effective at implementing policy. They successful cut taxes and loosened IRS enforcement. That was accomplished with the stroke of a pen. They unleashed pandemic handouts and loan programs that greased the economy (this was not well thought out, contributed to the inflationary environment we are still suffering from and PPP and ERP loans were flooded with fraudulent loans and benefits)
These programs leveraged existing corporate infrastructure (banks and the government had little or no operational involvement). The big difference here is some federal state or local agencies will have to be redeployed to take on this task creating a lack of services in the areas they were already operating. This will create more costs. Apprehended illegals will still be afforded due process (I presume since this is constitutionally protected for everyone in the United States). Anything requiring court or judicial decisioning is extremely slow. So we will be housing feeding and detaining millions of people for well beyond the Trump presidency. I suspect this is mostly campaign rhetoric that was popular with the current anti immigrant xenophobia that grew out of the pandemic both here and internationally and won the election, but the governments ability to achieve any real change in the population of illegals in this country would be very out of character. There will be some showy roundup of few immigrants (most likely only in Blue State, because every act of both parties right now is to be punitive to the citizens of the states that oppose the current administration), they will go after people with removal orders already in place, have a couple of press conferences and go back to improving their own personal economic situations. I hope I am wrong, but the above scenario more closely fits how the government operated in Trump first 4 years.
PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk. I am not a democrat, just a realist. I often think we forgot we the voters are responsible for all of this. We elected Trump the first time, elected Biden to relieve ourselves of the chaos of his first presidency and now reelected him because he promised he would lower the cost of eggs by pumping more oil. The binary choice was not a good one, but I wouldn't anticipate some remarkable improvement of fiscal responsibility or operational efficiency in this second act.
62 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Great question. IDK the answer though LOL!
- 1yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Quote from @Dan Mcguire:
Trump is all show. He talked about building a wall and having Mexico pay it, his tax revisions have added to the deficit. He has separated children from their parents with his deportation plan. The deficit is high and does need reduction. The Clinton years was golden with the deficit. He has told Americans to drink bleach and now making the imperialism comments to our northern neighbors. He has committed crimes , but talks about law and order. He has taunted other political rivals with “lock her up”, but his election saved him from jail time. This is our standard and role model for the US President?
And what is your input to the OP’s question?
- Real Estate Agent · Shoreham, NY · Member since 2016 · 96 posts · 44 votes1y
@Guy Gimenez
The deportations will need to be looked at along with all other “plans of Trump”. The suggested deportations will impact rentals if and only if Trump does what he says. It also depends on all the other policies. Let’s suppose the Federal Government deports all these folks as suggested by Trump. The available Labor force will shrink dramatically and the cost of services will increase for landlord and other industries. This policy along with the wonderful idea of tariffs will start trade wars and cause other increases in goods such as appliances, possibly cars or any other imported goods. We would see inflation increase further. The supply of rentals would be impacted, but the final impact will depend on the local market. This may hurt some local markets and ease the lack of supply in other areas. We do know the border had its issues, but currently illegal crossing are lower compared to when Trump left in office.
- Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan Mcguire:
@Guy Gimenez
The deportations will need to be looked at along with all other “plans of Trump”. The suggested deportations will impact rentals if and only if Trump does what he says. It also depends on all the other policies. Let’s suppose the Federal Government deports all these folks as suggested by Trump. The available Labor force will shrink dramatically and the cost of services will increase for landlord and other industries. This policy along with the wonderful idea of tariffs will start trade wars and cause other increases in goods such as appliances, possibly cars or any other imported goods. We would see inflation increase further. The supply of rentals would be impacted, but the final impact will depend on the local market. This may hurt some local markets and ease the lack of supply in other areas. We do know the border had its issues, but currently illegal crossing are lower compared to when Trump left in office.
We live in different worlds my friend. To believe the benefit of cheap labor comes without consequences is absurd. I would go into them in detail but since you said illegal immigration is lower now than when Trump was in office shows that facts are not important. No need to respond, you've already said it all.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes1y
NO POLITICS. Policy discussions only no personalities. You should be able to discuss an official or party's policies virtually without mentioning the person or party, or only as an ancillary note. Anything else is going to devolve pretty fast into the mud. Leave people out of your posts.
Skyline Properties - Member since 2023 · 188 posts · 111 votes1y
The reality is, most of illegal immigrants
1. can't purchase a house due to not reporting tax and not having social security number.
2. can't rent A or B rental properties due to the same reason above.
Thier impacts on rental properties or housing market is very small unlike many people believe. They are mostly cramped in a small apartment or renting from slumlords. The issue is they don't pay taxes because they don't have to which makes them not able to participate in the US financial system. Most of people send money back to their countries anyway to support their families so their spending power is very limited. I never seen an illegal immigrant own a house.
- 1yMike HurneyPro MemberReal Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay,
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice.. - 1yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
Backup of my assertions? I'm simply relaying what a credible policy advisor conveyed to us and several other FOs.
Now does it all happen? That's a basis of probabilities, timing, and expectations. No one knows, simply conveying. I literally said it could be entirely off.
You don't need to listen to me, no one's forcing you to.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Dan Mcguire:
but currently illegal crossing are lower compared to when Trump left in office.I want some of what you're smokin'.....I've heard this assertion floated by the Media, and it was quickly debunked. There may have been a single day somewhere that the crossings were less, but overall you must know that approx 20+ mm occured since 2021.
- Real Estate Agent · Shoreham, NY · Member since 2016 · 96 posts · 44 votes1y
@Bruce Woodruff
At this point this is all political talk and the moderator should delete or close the entire thread.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesI would have no problem with that, it'll stop people from posting erroneous information.
Quote from @Dan Mcguire:
@Bruce Woodruff
At this point this is all political talk and the moderator should delete or close the entire thread.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
Skyline Properties - 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Dan Mcguire:
@Bruce Woodruff
At this point this is all political talk and the moderator should delete or close the entire thread.
totally disagree this is important for those who actually are in construction or rehab houses to understand the labor force and not discriminate against a certain class because of who they are or where they are from.. These descriptions we are talking about are by folks like myself with decades of experience working with these folks.. I mean as I said I first met or knew personally hispanic ag laborers when I was about 10 on our Ranch in Northern Ca as they came to take care of our walnut orchard every year.. And they did it for years before my family bought that ranch.
Many my age born in the 50s we did work in Ag in the 60s I lived in Cupertino CA and I cut Cotts in the summer.. thats splitting apricots in half and laying them on a big wooden board to then dry naturally in the sun out doors.. hard to find REAL dried apricots these days U can still find them in Trader Joes though.. And it was all grade school kids looking for summer work and some spending money..
Try to get our youth to do that work today pry them from their computers their phones etc etc.
this is just reality.. nothing political about it. - Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
- 1yHenry ClarkPro MemberDeveloper · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
OP. I took a 100% removal of illegal aliens approach and positioned there would be zero net impact in population.
If the above happened there would be a huge REI boom. Since now they would be legal. They would outbid any current U.S. residence or investor on C and D housing.
.
How could we get rid of 100% of all illegal aliens let’s say 20million. Then turn around and have 20 million?
I personally would hire 20 million and get work visas for all of them. Would even pay for their air ticket and help them buy a house.
Economic dynamos.
Our Belize workers. USD $2.50 per hour. They normally work 50 hour weeks. Good workers $3.00. Good lead carpenters or masons $3.50. Belize has a huge illegal alien problem. Can get Guat, Nic, San, Ven for $4 per day labor. Off the top of my head 300,000 people in Belize. I’m sure I can get 250,000 to move tomorrow.Looking at Uruguay 3mm and Argentina 46mm. Average Argentina $250 per month. Doctor lawyer $1,000 per month. Argentine inflation was 240% “per month”. Now 4.8% per month. Pretty sure I can hire 2.5mm and 40mm to move tomorrow.
The above is just 3 countries. People will always want to come to the US. If we were to lose 20mm people. And we needed them. I can easily get us personally another “vetted” 20mm.
I am First Generation. Firm believer we need this 20 mm plus another 20mm. But vetted. I’m a baby boomer in the young end. 76mm. Our wealth and value to the work force will transfer in the next 20 years.
So I’m not worried about correcting the immigration problem from a Real Estate investment approach it will only go up in price if we do a lot of immigration.
In transit to Belize. -4 where I just left. Can’t wait to try the Red bananas we planted last year.
Can’t wait to see the 1200 sqft extra house we are building for one of our workers. Estimated about $25,000 including utility hookups. If my one caretaker doesn’t live there will rent to an expat for $600 per month. I always tell people not to do OSS. I’m a hypocrite. Actually do not invest in Belize.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
The hyperbolae, THAT is by far the #1 problem in all of this.
#2 is the utter BS that is being pumped into peoples mind's by whatever media, regurgitated onto others with no fact finding to confirm or deny. Feeling spewing!
Here is some FACTS to chew on, yes, from an immigrant household who has actual 1st hand current experience in immigration.
Only @Melanie P. touched on a fact that I never hear; the GIANT waiting list of LEGAL immigrants who have been long delayed because of ILLEGAL immigration.
I am not talking from feelings or opinion, this was the explanation given for delay after delay after delay in processing my Mother-in-law's immigration. Yes, they said due to the system getting flooded with illegals who took precedence she got rolled behind them.
And than meeting with Senators I got the same answers.It's literally broken the LEGAL immigration process.
So what will happen with mass deportation of illegals? With securing of a border, and defending the LEGAL process? It will mean LEGAL immigrants will be allowed to flow through and in again.
Next: questioning "IF" administration will do as it's promised is ridiculous. We know from last time this administration was in power that they actually do what they promise and campaign they will do. I know all are so used to campaign promises just being a slogan of lies but this is a factual thing, we know they are actually do what they say they will do, or at least try like hell to do it.
Will they be able to effect mass deportation day1, week1, month1, HELL YES.
For years law enforcement has had there hands tied, they have been denied ability to make enforcement actions. BUT there was nothing preventing DOCUMENTATION. They 100% have a list, of known persons, and known locations. This is where things will start.
For example, I know a place that has about 1k illegals. Everyone knows of it, literally everyone. The employer had been raided 2X previously where they pulled up tour busses to load people. No secret. And what have they done in recent years, filled it right back up. And how they treat the people is horrific. I won't mention the employer because it's a massive national entity, but I assure it will be back on news soon as those buses arrive yet again.
There is a lot of places like this.
Any who argue FOR exploitation of these people to "defend low prices"..... Shame on you. It is NOT "American" to exploit people as quazi-slaves 4-profit, that's vile.
It needs to be made criminal to do such as these corporations are, intentionally exploiting illegal immigrants 4-profit. Worried about costs, how about we add a $100k per person fine for such?
Will getting back to a LEGAL immigration policy and action collapse housing, the economy etc.? That is a ridiculous childish notion. It's saying a country "can't" exist without wide open borders and rampant exploitation of people.
STOP blindly regurgitating whatever media you consume. When you hear something STOP, think on it, ask if it makes sense, then SEEK OUT additional info, seek out CONTEXT. Formulate your theory then seek to prove it WRONG.
Because when you do that, your probably going to learn some interesting stuff. Stuff that may radically change your opinion of things. Stuff that may be a head scratcher as to "well why did they not mention this at all, I mean, holly-cow this changes everything".
Illegal immigration is a CRIME. Robbing a bank to pay rent is a CRIME. Stealing food from a gas station to eat is a CRIME.
Yes, crimes of desperation 100%, sad, yes they are. CRIMES none the less, letting the crimes run rampant is what collapses systems of society.
How do you feel if a tenant stops paying rent? Do you fret over finding them a new roof over there head? No, you enforce the rules. The rules made for ALL, to keep order. Because anarchy is bad for all. Desperation is not an exclusion to the rules.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some are - Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some areFair point, doesn't make it right though. It's also why we see customers get burned.
Illegal or not, unlicensed contractors here in CA undermine the industry. We can't compete with people not paying payroll taxes,comp, pioneer etc.
I mentioned to Bruce on another post that there are barely 210k active licenses left here. What happens when we cant pay our overhead because of the underground economy?
Why even have licenses?, maybe REA and brokers shouldn't have licenses?
- Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some areFair point, doesn't make it right though. It's also why we see customers get burned.
Illegal or not, unlicensed contractors here in CA undermine the industry. We can't compete with people not paying payroll taxes,comp, pioneer etc.
I mentioned to Bruce on another post that there are barely 210k active licenses left here. What happens when we cant pay our overhead because of the underground economy?
Why even have licenses?, maybe REA and brokers shouldn't have licenses?
Edit...not pioneer. ...paid time off
Lol spell check
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some areFair point, doesn't make it right though. It's also why we see customers get burned.
Illegal or not, unlicensed contractors here in CA undermine the industry. We can't compete with people not paying payroll taxes,comp, pioneer etc.
I mentioned to Bruce on another post that there are barely 210k active licenses left here. What happens when we cant pay our overhead because of the underground economy?
Why even have licenses?, maybe REA and brokers shouldn't have licenses?
I am not condoning the practive just stating what reality is.. I have been funding rehab flippers in those markets since 2002.. Permits are basically only pulled for electrical and plumbing of if they get caught.. its the only way to make the rental houses cash flow in many of those markets.
On top of that licened contractors many times simply wont work on those type of properties there is no money in it for them..
WHY have licenses thats my exact thought with unlicensed wholesalers :) - Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some areFair point, doesn't make it right though. It's also why we see customers get burned.
Illegal or not, unlicensed contractors here in CA undermine the industry. We can't compete with people not paying payroll taxes,comp, pioneer etc.
I mentioned to Bruce on another post that there are barely 210k active licenses left here. What happens when we cant pay our overhead because of the underground economy?
Why even have licenses?, maybe REA and brokers shouldn't have licenses?
I am not condoning the practive just stating what reality is.. I have been funding rehab flippers in those markets since 2002.. Permits are basically only pulled for electrical and plumbing of if they get caught.. its the only way to make the rental houses cash flow in many of those markets.
On top of that licened contractors many times simply wont work on those type of properties there is no money in it for them..
WHY have licenses thats my exact thought with unlicensed wholesalers :)I do understand, and really appreciate that you throughly understand how it is in CA.
if I got pooped doing illegal panel upgrades on Waverly in PA, I'd end up in jail and lose my houses.
An illegal gets popped and gets freaking amnesty. Hell the CSLB might help em get a license. That's BS
For all you lurkers...my family legally immigrated from S.America.
Jay knows how hard it is to get a license here in CA and keep it legal.
The illegal contractors drive up our bond rates, liability insurance etc. Then prey on their own for cheap labor.
Freaking homeowners and REI goblets up the cheap work.
ILLEGALS DONT do quality work
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Mike Hurney:
"PS before you dismiss this as liberal, communist, socialist talk."
Dismissed, actually more like Marxism!
I'd like to see back up of some of your assertions, Not hearsay, Not the Liberal Press.
i.e. Called my main guy this spring for some work. He showed with a young guy, We worked our butts off for 3 days. I picked up lunch, drinks etc. I went to pay them, couple of days work I'll pay with a check (1099) and cash it for them.
Hey Tony, I've got all O's info what's yours?
"Just Tony." Ok, some ID?
"No necessito." Whaaa, lets see some papers!
"No necessito!" Whaaa, empty your pockets!
"See, Nada, only new phone."
How do you buy anything or stay somewhere?
In very broken English:
"No necessito, US has free food! EBT! Section 8, nice housing! good medical at emergency! new clothes! etc."
:-0
Hey O, is this true? What's going on? You've been calling me a lot for work, and I've been referring you. What's up with this?
"Mike, 15 years ago I arrived in Mass, I was the only Guatemalan in Mass. Good people gave me work, I learned more skill, more money, worked hard! Now, recently, there are probably 1000 more Guatemalans like Tony, all undercutting each other!! I can do a roof for $300/Sq, they underbid me down like $99/Sq."
Yes, I've seen them, **** work and they're falling off roofs, not safe. I don't care if they're free, I don't need that!
"Mike, that's unusual!"
I could go on.
1. I see it as more like 50 million Undocumented (Illegally entered the USA) aliens.
2. I'm optimistic bad ones will be deported.
3. I'd like to see folks that are chosen to remain are vetted and documented.
Soooo Don't bother arguing with me about what I see and know. Actual experience I'll listen to.
@Jay Hinrichs I agree with your wife on the make up of subs! I'm seeing the same, Thanks
One thing I know about our hispanic work force on the left coast they are not stupid they know the value of their sub trades your not going to get some massive discount from them.. Even the day laborers at home depot know the going rate :) .. In my mind what you get is hard working do a very nice job generally speaking and will work when many born and breed americans simply wont. the one situation we do face is sometimes they just leave and go home with no notice..That mirrors my experience too - our Hispanic contractors know exactly what the market rates are and they may be a touch below but not considerable - what you are getting these days is a faster, tighter job, not huge cost savings.
What we're getting here in CA is unpermitted, non warranties work. While licensed contractors pay payroll taxes, workers comp and a litany of other financial burdens.
perspective is everything.
Alan unpermitted non warranty work is how have the mid west rust belt gets their rehabs done.. just is what it is.. and some are not citizens and some areFair point, doesn't make it right though. It's also why we see customers get burned.
Illegal or not, unlicensed contractors here in CA undermine the industry. We can't compete with people not paying payroll taxes,comp, pioneer etc.
I mentioned to Bruce on another post that there are barely 210k active licenses left here. What happens when we cant pay our overhead because of the underground economy?
Why even have licenses?, maybe REA and brokers shouldn't have licenses?
I am not condoning the practive just stating what reality is.. I have been funding rehab flippers in those markets since 2002.. Permits are basically only pulled for electrical and plumbing of if they get caught.. its the only way to make the rental houses cash flow in many of those markets.
On top of that licened contractors many times simply wont work on those type of properties there is no money in it for them..
WHY have licenses thats my exact thought with unlicensed wholesalers :)There's another issue with licensing - there's just not enough licensed competent contractors in a lot of these markets. In my market if you tried to wait and use licensed guys for everything you'd never get anything done. Also, unlicensed doesn't mean illegal as far as citizenship. I've had plenty of unlicensed white guys work for me I'm sure.
Skyline Properties - Investor · CO · Member since 2020 · 59 posts · 42 votes1y
justifying illegals to pick our crops and build our houses I think it’s fundamentally incorrect- it lacks Integrity. If you build your foundation in anything in life illegally is it a firm foundation? Will it last? What else would you be willing to do illegally?
Illegal is illegal whether it’s by an inch or a mile and two wrongs don’t make a right. If you wanna come over and pick our Fields and build our houses you’re more than welcome to come over. Just do it by the law.
the housing market and rental prices shouldn’t be dictated by illegals, it should be dictated by a lawful capitalistic market of US citizens.
They will get deported and when they do, I guess young Americans will have to work in our factories, fields and housing job sites and give up the dream of being Youtubers while sponging off their parents till her 38 years old.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Terry Ouimet:
justifying illegals to pick our crops and build our houses I think it’s fundamentally incorrect- it lacks Integrity. If you build your foundation in anything in life illegally is it a firm foundation? Will it last? What else would you be willing to do illegally?
Illegal is illegal whether it’s by an inch or a mile and two wrongs don’t make a right. If you wanna come over and pick our Fields and build our houses you’re more than welcome to come over. Just do it by the law.
the housing market and rental prices shouldn’t be dictated by illegals, it should be dictated by a lawful capitalistic market of US citizens.
They will get deported and when they do, I guess young Americans will have to work in our factories, fields and housing job sites and give up the dream of being Youtubers while sponging off their parents till her 38 years old.
Just an FYI on the "illegals to pick our crops" from a farm-kid.... That's not a thing.
See, there is a thing called migrant farm worker. It's a very long standing visa program, super regularized, they have visas, 100% legal, ton's of rules about it.
There is no real reason to use illegals, there's just no real benefit to it and a lot of downside. The migrant farm worker program works fairly well. There's always some bad apples in any bunch but for vast majority, it's a win-win.
Soooo yeah, it's little known by the average Jane/John Doe so I get it could make a good sound byte but yeah, really not so much a thing. Farmers are some of the most ethical humans on earth. Granted, I'm bias so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Buuuuuut, I'm kinda proving the point in being upfront with my bias aren't I.
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