Grant Cardone or Dave Ramsey

Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes

I Have been Listening and following Dave Ramsey plan for a while now. I happen to stumble upon grant cardone and have been listening to his materials. It's a total different approach from what Dave Ramsey teaches. Grant Cardone States " Don't Buy a House". It's not an asset. Which sounds like Robert kiyosaki. Also states don't save money in the stock market/retirement savings plan. But go for assets that only pay's you. Dave ramsey has been my guy and still is. But I like the 10x rule and Grant Cardone view on Money. Just asking my bigger pockets family. What do you think? Which route would you take?

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Tom V.

IA · Member since 2015 · 304 posts · 152 votes

10y

My suggestion would be to use the Dave Ramsey plan to get debt free and build your financial discipline by learning how to budget. After you're debt free and have developed financial discipline, then use leverage to your advantage for investing. If you try to use leverage without developing your financial discipline first, you're destined to be one of Dave Ramsey's bankrupt callers one day.

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Brandon L.
Real Estate Agent · Falls Church · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed why limit yourself to one "route" take what works from a bunch of people and incorporate it into your own life.
6 Reply
Vanessa Peterson
Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 12 votes
10y
I used to be a Dave Ramsey fanatic. I think his stuff is good for budgeting, paying in cash, etc. but his audience is really blue collar lower to middle class with stupid consumer debt. If you are responsible with your money and have higher income, Dave Ramsey misses the boat on leverage when it comes to real estate investing, tax advantages, and overall financial strategies for people who dream big with $ goals etc. he's great if u want to live a simple life and be debt free but I don't believe you can be truly wealthy following his plan. Plus he estimated everything in the stock market as a 12% return which I think is unrealistic. My two cents.
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Jason Ledford
Investor · King, NC · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 4 votes
10y
I like Dave Ramsey, the idea of being debt free and the peace of mind that would come from that but it seems like it would be hard for the average real estate investor to get ahead especially when starting out.
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Aaron HowellBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Crozet, VA · Member since 2014 · 436 posts · 223 votes
10y
Dave Ramsey is great if you make $40,000 per year but you want to make your money work for you. I don't think Dave Ramsey teaches that. Grant Cardone and Robert Kiyosaki do and that's what work for me. "The Rich Don't Work for Money" - Robert Kiyosaki
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OP
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes
10y
Thanks for all of the feedback. Great points made. Grant Cardone had some great points as I was Checking out his podcast. I am looking to escape the middle class. And grant Cardone really pushes that. But I do love the Dave Ramsey debt free approach on "Stupid Debt"
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OP
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes
10y
@Aaron Howell Great Quote. I might need to re read "Rich dad poor dad" once again. And suggestions on some great books to pick up?
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Aaron HowellBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Crozet, VA · Member since 2014 · 436 posts · 223 votes
10y
I liked Grant Cardona's 10X Rule. The first time I heard his podcast for BP I thought he was full of himself but he grew on me. The book was good. Its not revolutionary like Rich Dad, Poor Dad but it will help with your thought process.
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David Faulkner
Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Yes, leverage is a useful too, but always remember that it can cut both ways. You can 10X your losses too if you don't know what you are doing.
If you don't have leverage, you don't get into trouble. I've always said, 'if you are smart you don't need it, and if you are dumb you shouldn't be using it.'
-Warren Buffett
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OP
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes
10y
@David Faulkner Wise words from Warren Buffet. Actually I am looking to read the "intelligent investor" a book recommended by him.
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James Green
Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes
10y
@Account Closed, what you are asking is really like saying what's the difference between a grapefruit and an orange. What do I mean? Both are citrus, but have different tastes that may appeal to different people. Or you may even like both. I like both, my wife hates grapefruit.
Grant & Dave both teach financial literacy & getting ahead (financially) BUT from totally different perspectives.
Dave is a Christian, so therefore he comes at it from a scriptural perspective,..."the debtor is a slave to the lender", "bring your tithe into the storehouse", "owe no man anything but love",...etc. Dave wants his audience out of debt and teaches a pretty simple (not easy) way to get there. His program is not focused on getting you rich in a hurry.
Grant is not a Christian (not judging or making a negative, but it is a fact), so his approach is TOTALLY different, understandably!!!. Grant believes in using leverage (debt) to purchase income producing assets that in turn will pay down the debt. Which ultimately will get you rich quickly.
Neither one is better Orange/Dave or Grapefruit/Grant, Just depends on your likes and goals.
I personally like both, so I'm stacking dollars to excel getting out of debt, BEFORE I use any leverage to purchase apartments. BTW, I would be in NO WAY by any persons economic standard of being considered middle class. My day job pays me extremely well, so Ramsey is not for just blue collar 40k earning folk. In DC we have a term we use called DINCs - Double Income earners. With my 6 figure salary and my wife's near 6 figure salary, our gross income looks great BUT....we have the kind of debt that can come with that.
The point I want to make is, both ways work but for different reasons/purposes and outcomes.
7 Reply
Tom V.
IA · Member since 2015 · 304 posts · 152 votes
10y
My suggestion would be to use the Dave Ramsey plan to get debt free and build your financial discipline by learning how to budget. After you're debt free and have developed financial discipline, then use leverage to your advantage for investing. If you try to use leverage without developing your financial discipline first, you're destined to be one of Dave Ramsey's bankrupt callers one day.
11 Reply
Brad Turley
Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 16 votes
10y
Hi Dwayne,
Like you the first time I heard Grant Cardone was on a BP podcast and his energy stuck with me as it probably has you too. I would highly recommend investing in his books and listening to his podcast the "Cardone Zone." That being said, when he talks about not buying a home, from my understanding he's suggesting not to invest into something that isn't going to pay you monthly. Buying a home as you know comes w/ a lot of expenses. Every month money is being sucked out of your wallet going towards that home. If you listen to his podcast, he talks about focusing on increasing your income first. Then when you have a substantial amount of money saved, invest in multifamilies or house hack like many members on BP do. Think of it as the more door you own, the more rent you collect. Anyway, I hope this helps but I would highly recommend listening to his podcast and buying his books. It's worth the investment. Cheers!
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Malik Roley
Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 2 votes
10y
I like Dave Ramsey's approach to getting out of debt with the snowball effect, but I really don't understand his aversion to debt. Yes, debt is "dumb" if you're using it for dumb things such as consumer debt, but debt can also provide you leverage if you're educated and use it properly.
I like Grant's 10X approach. Really made me step up my goals and aim high.
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Andrew SyriosPro Member
Moderator
Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
10y
To me, Dave Ramsey is great for 95% of people, but he's too conservative financially speaking for investor-minded people. It would come down to your goals. Do you want to be conservative and simply grow a large nest egg for retirement, if so, go with Ramsey. If on the other hand, you want to try and grow a really large portfolio, go with Cardone.
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Larry Turowski
Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @David Faulkner:

Yes, leverage is a useful too, but always remember that it can cut both ways. You can 10X your losses too if you don't know what you are doing.
If you don't have leverage, you don't get into trouble. I've always said, 'if you are smart you don't need it, and if you are dumb you shouldn't be using it.'
-Warren Buffett
What people don't understand is he has made his money not just by investing his own money but largely by taking a cut from all the other investors who have given him money to invest. It is a different sort of leveraging that doesn't involve debt.
The average person is not going to be able to do this with real estate (or stocks). Some real estate investors do this by syndicating large deals, but they have a solid track record and a line of people waiting to invest.
But the average investor who leverages wisely can pretty safely grow their net worth much faster than the one who doesn't.
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Larry Turowski
Flipper/Rehabber · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed.
Don't worry about what you call things, assets or liabilities. Just ask, is this thing making (or saving) me money or costing me money? I can make much more money with three properties leveraged than I can with one not leveraged.
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OP
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes
10y
@Larry Turowski Thanks for the Feed-back. Great way of going about it. I never thought of the leveraged approach until I ran into Cardone. I was a 100% Dave Ramsey Follower with his steps. I still am a fan of Dave's. But I just have been listening more to the Robert kiyosaki' of the world lately.
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Jake Thomas
Residential Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 803 posts · 689 votes
10y
Dave Ramsey's plan is great to get you thinking about saving and getting out of consumer debt, but once you are debt free (except the house) I tend to disagree with his philosophy and look to other methods on investing in RE other than all cash. The only debt we carry is our own mortgage and those of all the rental properties which the tenants are technically paying plus extra cash flow from each. The DR plan of buying rentals will take you a lifetime to acquire as many as you could in 5-10 years by leveraging your income with loans.
2 Reply
Ryan Billingsley
Investor/Realtor · Wentzville, MO · Member since 2014 · 846 posts · 431 votes
10y
@Account Closed
I think you can look at both perspectives and find things to apply to your life.
You don't have to choose one over the other, simply apply what suits your needs.
Their advice is coming from a positive place. So with that being said, neither is negative. But everyone is unique and will benefit from different advice through out their lives.
1 Reply
Donald Cooley
Railroad Conductor / Future investor · New Baltimore, MI · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 40 votes
10y
I agree with many of the responses above. Love both guys, following Ramsey for personal life and Cardone for business. Personally I don't want to have any excess consumer debt, but understand the necessity to use debt to leverage asset purchases.
My two cents
Don
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed the difference is if you follow Dave Ramsey advice, you can ONLY get yourself out of financial trouble. If you follow Grant Cardone, then you could get yourself into financial trouble. This isn't a put down on Grant, but basically his approach is either going to propel you to riches or get you in over your head quickly. Dave has a get rich slow formula.
The good news is you don't need to pick one or the other. Use the best from both!
3 Reply
Luka Milicevic
Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
This is just my opinion, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer....
I always felt as if Dave Ramsey was more geared towards financial safety. His market was slightly more towards people that have financially messed up in life (Credit card debt, etc), and ways to correct those mistakes. He is a very conservative guy and recommends a "safe" approach.
Grant Cardone on the other hand is geared more towards creating wealth and living up to your true potential. I am more interested in what he has to say (personally). I like his no excuses approach and I love the idea he mentioned that you're only competing against yourself and everything you do is living up to your potential. That changed my way of thinking.
I think they are both good guys to follow, but I do think they are both geared towards people in different stages of their financial careers.
1 Reply
Jeff Brower
Real Estate Agent · Willoughby, OH · Member since 2014 · 560 posts · 690 votes
10y
@James Green I believe you are incorrect on your statement that it is a fact that grant is not a Christian. I remember him stating early on that one of his financial goals was to be the top contributor to his church. I understand his delivery and foul language might lead one to believe otherwise, but stating that he is not a Christian is incorrect from what I have heard.
To speak on the subject at hand, I agree with most of the responses already posted above. Even though controversial, I have taken a liking to Grant and unique delivery methods.
1 Reply
James Green
Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes
10y
@Jeff Brower he actually is a member of the Church of Scientology,... unless he's left within the last few years.
1 Reply
David Faulkner
Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Larry Turowski:

Originally posted by @David Faulkner:
Yes, leverage is a useful too, but always remember that it can cut both ways. You can 10X your losses too if you don't know what you are doing.
If you don't have leverage, you don't get into trouble. I've always said, 'if you are smart you don't need it, and if you are dumb you shouldn't be using it.'
-Warren Buffett
What people don't understand is he has made his money not just by investing his own money but largely by taking a cut from all the other investors who have given him money to invest. It is a different sort of leveraging that doesn't involve debt.
The average person is not going to be able to do this with real estate (or stocks). Some real estate investors do this by syndicating large deals, but they have a solid track record and a line of people waiting to invest.
But the average investor who leverages wisely can pretty safely grow their net worth much faster than the one who doesn't.
Good points and I agree. However, I'd like to point out a very subtle but important point regarding this quote. The quote doesn't say that leverage is not used if you are smart, it only says that it is not needed. The worst reason to use leverage is because you need to, but used wisely it is a powerful tool ... used unwisely, well that's another story covered by the second half of the quote. Put another way by the same guy: "When you combine ignorance and leverage, you get some pretty interesting results." -Warren Buffet. For me, the take home message is if you are going to use leverage, make sure you know what you are doing, treat it with care and respect, and be conservative with your estimates so you have some wiggle room so you don't get yourself into trouble.
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