Grant Cardone or Dave Ramsey
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes
Grant Cardone or Dave Ramsey
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IA · Member since 2015 · 304 posts · 152 votes
10yMy suggestion would be to use the Dave Ramsey plan to get debt free and build your financial discipline by learning how to budget. After you're debt free and have developed financial discipline, then use leverage to your advantage for investing. If you try to use leverage without developing your financial discipline first, you're destined to be one of Dave Ramsey's bankrupt callers one day.
52 Replies
- Investor · Overland Park, KS · Member since 2015 · 50 posts · 13 votes10y
I agree with others, Dave is fantastic for lower income folks
Who need to get their life together. Grant is a great inspiration
But is for the highly motivated. Find the happy place In between.
I just listened to Grants podcast again on the way home tonight
He is a piece of work but you gotta love it.
- 10yG. Brian DavisPro MemberInvestor · Hatboro, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 850 votes
Grant Cardone is great for sales training and motivation. I don't consider him a personal finance expert. I certainly don't consider him an authority on religion (seeing as the conversation took a turn in that direction).
As for real estate being an asset or a liability, I think sometimes Kiyosaki's message gets lost in the controversy. His point is not "You shouldn't buy real estate" - quite the opposite, he has a huge rental investment portfolio himself. His point is that your personal home should be considered a liability, whether you own or rent, because it costs you money every month rather than creating income for you. He's simply defining a liability more broadly - anything that costs you money rather than earns you money.
We all need a place to live, and it will likely cost money, and that's fine. But he (wisely) admonishes those people who justify buying whatever house they want with the self-deluding logic that "it's an asset, it will appreciate and make us money!"
Buy or rent, do it below your means, and don't assume that a house you buy will appreciate.
Brian Davis
- Real Estate Agent · Willoughby, OH · Member since 2014 · 560 posts · 690 votes10y
You are right @James Green . My apologies; A simple google search proved me wrong.
- Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes10yMalik Roley It's real simple with Dave Ramsey. The reason he is adverse to debt is a religious one. He is taking the bible literally and staying away from debt.
- Wholesaler · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2015 · 459 posts · 245 votes10y
The worst reason to use leverage is because you need to, but used wisely it is a powerful tool ... used unwisely, well that's another story covered by the second half of the quote.
" is an excellent distinction.It reminds me of a turnkey company (not in here) that would discourage a person from paying all cash and use leverage to buy more assets. So if you were looking to buy a rental for 100K, all cash, they would "educate" you on the benefits of leverage buy teaching you how if you just put 25% down, you can buy 4 rentals and with the income from the rentals this will pay off the underlying bank loans. Sounds real savvy, until you get to the details. You are locked into a 5 year contract where you can't sell the rentals you just "bought" for 5 years. The rentals are in "great appreciating rental areas of the country like,....wait for it,..... Detroit!" I know one unfortunate investor that invested their retirement in this company & his rentals are either being trashed or unrented. Meanwhile he is spending money every month on this great use of leverage.
Grant doesn't put down his last penny on a down payment & then use leverage to buy his assets. He has plenty of reserves for anything that can & will happen.
- Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Larry Turowski:
@Account Closed.
Don't worry about what you call things, assets or liabilities. Just ask, is this thing making (or saving) me money or costing me money? I can make much more money with three properties leveraged than I can with one not leveraged.
I would agree completely. Using leverage wisely is the best way to grow a portfolio. But for most people who aren't active investors, I would recommend they try their best to avoid debt because, well, generally speaking, it's consumer debt that they get mixed up in. And consumer debt is the devil.
- Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I Have been Listening and following Dave Ramsey plan for a while now. I happen to stumble upon grant cardone and have been listening to his materials. It's a total different approach from what Dave Ramsey teaches. Grant Cardone States " Don't Buy a House". It's not an asset. Which sounds like Robert kiyosaki. Also states don't save money in the stock market/retirement savings plan. But go for assets that only pay's you. Dave ramsey has been my guy and still is. But I like the 10x rule and Grant Cardone view on Money. Just asking my bigger pockets family. What do you think? Which route would you take?
Hello Dwayne,
This is a great question! There are so many different experts out there, and make of them have their own views on money management. My wife and I love Dave Ramsey as well. I have also really begun to read more of Robert Kiyosaki. Ultimately what really matters is YOU. Sometimes you just have to go with your guy. It might be a good idea to mix some of their ideas together? But that is not for me to say, I'll leave it to another expert!
Happy Investing!
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@G. Brian Davis on personal resi being a liability.. it really depends on what area of the country you are living in .
in certain parts of the country this is an absolute.. property cost money to own will not go up in value appreciably.. etc etc.. but the idea is you pay it off then live there for free until you die... :)
now take prime areas of the country and some of it is just being in the right place at the right time.
But if you take say Silicon valley for instance were I grew up.. a home bought in 1970 for 25k is now worth 2 million.. or maybe more... you lived there 30 years you paid off your mortgage and you have enough money to live on the rest of your life if you sell and buy in a retirement type setting.
same 25k investing in a rental house at the time would maybe have made you lets say at 300 a month positive cash flow over the same 40 years.. 150,000.....
So it just depends on where you live and what the upside is.. not only that but when the tax treatment changed for owner occ to 500k tax free you have that as well going for yourself I know I partook in that one a few times and it did far more for me than owning any kind of rental I could have bought or afforded at the time.. it was a no brainer the personal resi in the bay area was hands down the best thing I ever did..
- Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 477 posts · 426 votes10y
I'm a Dave Ramsey fan, and wholeheartedly agree with almost everything he says - for my personal finances. Like @Andrew Syrios said: Consumer debt is the devil. On the other hand, I don't particularly care for Grant Cardone, but will still apply some of the principles he espouses - but I won't be living my life directed by a carnival barker hocking the flavor of the week investment/business strategy. I bet Billy Mays could have been a heck of a financial "expert" in certain circles these days.
I don't like "rah-rah" motivational books or "business" books based solely on anecdotal evidence - give me real numbers and hard facts. What will bear out every time is that good planning, hard work, and discipline will make all the difference in the world.
That said, there will always be a "discussion" between the aggressive and conservative folks. The old school rule for market investing is "100 minus your age is how much you should have allocated to stocks in your portfolio." Obviously, like any other rule of thumb, there's a lot of nuance missing there - but I tend to think of my real estate investing in a similar manner:
On a scale of 1-100, I want how aggressive I'm being (how much leverage I'll use, how much marketing I'll do, how much equity I have in properties, how management intensive the properties I'll buy will be) to be 100 minus my age. So as a 30 year old guy, I'm willing to borrow more because I have good W2 income to support myself, and I'm fine with having less equity in properties, I'm willing to work a little harder to manage my own stuff, and I'm going to hustle and market myself as much as I can.
10, 15 or 20 years from now, I want to own a bunch of great quality properties in good areas, free and clear, and pay someone else to manage them for me. And every year from now until then, I want my portfolio shifting from what it is now, to what I want it to be. Without using leverage, it's very doubtful I'll get to that point, at least anytime soon. At the same time, if I use leverage incorrectly, it's very doubtful I'll get to that point, and I'll likely wind up in a worse financial situation (from having massive outstanding debts I can't pay) because of it.
Like absolutely everything else in real estate (and really, in life) figure out what approach works for you and execute on it every day.
- Real Estate Investor · Auburn, WA · Member since 2016 · 83 posts · 22 votes10y
Count me in the group that feels like it's not necessary to fall behind any one methodology. Everyone's situation is different, and as such you should listen to a broad range of ideas and pluck from those the ones that appeal most to you.
That'll give you a place to start, and you can tweak your own method as you go!
- Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 54 votes10y
Cardone with a little Ramsey good sense mixed in.
Ramsey would flip over how much consumer debt we are carrying, but it's more beneficial in the short run and the long run to buy property rather than pay off debt. As with anything, run the numbers and see where paying off consumer debt will get you in terms of savings per month. For me, I'm going to keep increasing my income until paying off the debt gets in the way.
Listening to Cardone gets me psyched to keep putting in energy to real estate and my W-2 job at the same time. He also attacks limiting beliefs. I'm a lot more Cardone than Ramsey.
- Entrepreneur & Real Estate Investor · ID · Member since 2016 · 82 posts · 84 votes10y
Like others have stated, Dave Ramsey gives great advice if your life goal is to stay poor forever. Otherwise, it's all terrible advice once you apply some math and critical thinking.
- Investor · Livingston, TN · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 112 votes10y
@Account Closed
If your in the business to make money...go Cardone and Kiosaki. These two guys made their fortune on the deals that BP teaches about. Dave Ramsey (which I am a fan of) made his fortune telling people how to pay off debt. People who follow Cardone and Kiosaki make money (they create ways to make money), while Ramsey simply saves money and debt reduction.
I plan to take the Cardone/Kiosaki route.
- Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 86 votes10y
My wife and I began following Dave about 15 years ago, and was able to get completely out of debt and pay off our mortgage over the following 5 years.
We kept putting our snowball into savings which allowed us to accumulate a lot over the following 10 years. We used this savings to begin our REI business, paying cash for our first 7 SFR properties and partner in several large commercial properties. So Dave gets kudos for that!
But we're adjusting our outlook on debt. Dave focuses on consumer debt more than business debt, because that is the problem most of his followers are facing and I couldn't agree more with. That credit card & car loan debt isn't going to make you any money. But for a smart, disciplined person who can manage the proper amount of business debt, it can allow you to do more with what you have. We are in the process of pulling out most of the funds we spent on our properties, to be able to buy more. But it does make me nervous after not having debt for so many years.
I was gonna check out what Grant writes, but after watching some videos of him praising L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology, I think I'll pass.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes10y
I Agree with the Dave Ramsey Concept on getting out of consumer debt which doesn't pay you money, but always cost you money. But if I am aiming to build a serious empire in the real estate industry. I believe in my opinion, Saving up to buy $300,000-$1,000,000 properties won't cut it. Leverage would be needed depending on your income. In the case of income most people are not walking around with that kind of liquid cash to drop on investments. In which leverage would come into play. Grant Cardone focuses on Getting your income up and not being satisfied with the middle class. I totally agree with that. In my eyes both Dave Ramsey and Grant Cardone are helpful in big ways. Even though their messages are totally different.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 38 votes10y
@Cody Campbell I am looking to gain more knowledge from Robert kiyosaki. His legendary book "rich dad poor dad" is great. But I am looking to read more of his materials and get the book he has recommended by Ken McElroy "The ABc's of Real estate investing"
- 10ySergey TkachevPro MemberInvestor, Agent, CPA · West Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 690 posts · 262 votes
Debt and leverage are just tools in our tool box - if used properly, they can help us build wealth, if used improperly, they can lead to the loss of wealth.
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes10y
Talk about comparing two extremes!
I used the DR debt snowball to tackle my consumer debt. Finished paying off $87k worth three years ago. Student loans, credit cards, etc. No car payments, but a few private loans that funded some of my DPs. OPM does have a cost!
The plan kept us focused and the little wins kept us motivated. It is amazing to see how much money was going out and how much effort it took to manage all those payments. I was working just to make payments and hardly realized it.
If I had aspirations to be a billionaire and work all the time scrounging up deals or whatever, I'd be a fan of a Cordone-esque approach. I think we all should reach for something more, but it's ok to tap out or tap the breaks when you find contentment. It's good to 10x in the beginning, but...
Where does 10x end? If my goal is to take a nap every weekday afternoon, do I need to shoot for 10? Is there an end to 10x ever? What is the end game in the 10x world?
I don't want to fly around the country being the CEO of my empire, working all the time into my 50's or whenever. I've become ok with paying everything off and truly retiring. More money on the pile and a billion worth of RE doesn't excite me anymore. It 'used to could' lol, but I like peace better than searching for the next ROI homerun these days. Just my opinion. Thanks for reading!
- Contractor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 27 posts · 7 votes10y
Here's my outlook:
I have a bit of student loan debt at 3.4% interest.
My net return on my investment real estate is approximately 17.6%.
It would be a poor choice to pay down this debt, all other things constant. I'll go with Cardone, however one should always remember there is wisdom in the multitudes of counsel...
- Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes10y
There is bad debt and good debt. Leverage can be your best friend and your worst enemy. Be careful. Grant Cardone is correct in his belief that you can do a $1,000,000 with the same effort and steps that it take to do a $100,000 deal. Mostly it boils down to your comfort level and pain tolerance. If you are not scared, then you aren't working on big enough things.
- Investor · Huntsville, TX · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 65 votes10yI listen to both guys almost daily. They disagree with each other on many things. I just take nuggets from both. Grant is against single family houses that is nuts. Avg person has to start with SFH. U could own 5 cash flowing houses before u save enough for apt building. I use Dave to pound in my head stay smart don't buy dumb stuff and use grant to motivate me to think bigger.
- Evansville, IN · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 0 votes9y
I used to be a huge Dave Ramsey fan and I still enjoy his stuff. Lately I have been listening to a lot of Grant Cardone and he has really opened my eyes to using leverage in my business. Personally I like Dave Ramsey for a lot of my personal life stuff and Grant Cardone for business. Both have good teaches its al about what works for the individual.
- Investor · Livingston, TN · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 112 votes9y
My opinion:
Dave Ramsey: does not teach wealth building, he is primarily helping you get out of debt. You also have to realize he is not wealthy because he followed what he teaches, he became debt free from what he teaches and he became incredibly successful and wealthy by selling and teaching his techniques of getting out of debt.
Grant Cardon: he teaches primarily of "mindset" and "taking action" which can overflow into wealth building. He teaches how to get your mind right and take action, which is needed in all aspects of life. He has made his fortune primarily in the real estate realm. He is all about the mindset needed to build wealth.
You can not become successful like Dave Ramsey by following what he teaches, you will be debt free. You can become successful like Grant Cardone through real estate, but again Grant teaches more of mindset required to take action and if you put that action into real estate investing you can become successful like.
You can build a real estate portfolio slowly with Dave Ramsey methods (no debt). You can explode your real estate portfolio by leveraging debt and taking massive action as Cardone teaches.
Im team Cardone all the way.
- San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 10 votes8yDave got in way over his head and went through a humiliating bankruptcy and now has an eternal grudge against lenders i. e. credit card companies. He wants you do avoid credit or else he gets his feelings hurt. Dave’s plan is definitely targeted towards not so sophisticated low income earners who he can talk down to.
- Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 663 posts · 512 votes8y@ Malik roles As James Greene already explained its the Bible that Dave uses as his philosophy on debt and why its stupid to borrow money. Also, he did file bankruptcy by using leverage in real estate, he was a Millionaire, but lost it all when the banks called his notes. So I can understand his wisdom. Plus he did become a multi millionaire again by not using debt. Pretty impressive man.
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