SUCCESSFUL OUT OF STATE INVESTORS?

SUCCESSFUL OUT OF STATE INVESTORS?

Real Estate Investor · Vallejo, CA · Member since 2009 · 120 posts · 7 votes

I tend to feed on positive people around me and I have seen a few posts claiming that out of area or out of state investors are not going to be successful.
So I am curious to know who on here is not only an out of state investor like me ( I live in northern cali, where cash flow is not good), and who are successful doing it, especially buy and hold investors. I 'd also like to know where you are from, where you invest and you general plan and profits, details, details.
I have also seen people claiming that paying ppty managers is a risky and takes too much of the profit.
Let me disagree on that, I do believe that even if my properties where a mile away from where i live, I think that managing your own property is inherently bound to fail if your goal is to retire on real estate.
Self managing is very limiting as far as the number of ppties one can acquire and puts a limit on success. As an extrem example, Donald Trumps would never be a billionaire if he self managed his properties.
I believe that delegating properly is what makes one successful.
Plus the 7% management fee I pay allows me less stress, and I would never be able to be as professional as my ppty manager.
Doing it myself I ll go crazy after 2 or 3 ppties. Having a ppty manager, I can sleep good and have 50 ppties or more.

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Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

I am one of the successful out of state investors here on BP. I live in Colorado and just this year purchased property in Texas, Oklahoma and Arizona. I also have property in California, Virginia and Colorado. My philosophy on Real Estate Investing is just like stock investing. I don't visit a factory or an office of a stock I buy, so why should I visit a property I buy? Even if I owned 51% of a company's stock, I let the professionals run it. I am sure Warren Buffet doesn't visit a Coca Cola plant even though he has billions invested in Coca Cola.

I pay from 6% to 8% for property management and that is more than worth it. I manage the PM companies and they manage the properties. This gives me more time to do what I want to do. If you manage your own properties, it is like a 'ball and chain.' How do you ever go on vacation? You pay someone else to be 'on call' if a problem arises? If so, just have a property manager. My strength is accounting, not fixing a toilet.

Currently, my gross numbers are $30,000 a month gross rental income. About $10,000 in debt service, $2,000 in property management, $1,500 in property taxes, about $500 in insurance. Repairs and utilities can vary. Number of rental units is 30. Dollar amounts are rounded.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2010 · 53 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    When you refer to the PM costing 5-8% are you factoring in the leasing cost? From what I ahve seen here in Atlanta most PM's want one month's rent to lease and then 8-10% to manage monthly. When you add the two up it costs north of 15% to manage a year.

    Obviously with more properties you can negotiate a better rate, but are you able to get this down to 5-8% total?

  • Chatsworth, CA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    I am an investor in California and I’m looking to invest in Detroit Michigan as well. I am looking for a good RE agent as well, if anyone  knows of one that would be great. That said, is anyone familiar with this city to  give  advice on where is the best areas to invest ? 

    Thanks,,

    Charisse 

  • Realtor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2018 · 387 posts · 129 votes
    7y

    @Charisse Daving let me know what you need help with . DM me 

  • Chatsworth, CA · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    Thank you I will

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2018 · 335 posts · 251 votes
    7y

    Hey @Michael Seutin, I am an out of state investor and know many others who invest out of state very successfully. We are all from Hawaii, so it doesn't get much more out of state than that lol. I'm super happy to pay my property manager 10% to manage my properties for me. Of course I lose money every month, but the cashflow from the rental is still good, and I don't deal with tenants, or maintenance calls etc. You just need to find a property manager or management company you can trust. Referrals are your friend!!

  • Greg GaudetPro Member
    Investor · Pukalani, HI · Member since 2017 · 414 posts · 291 votes
    7y

    @Daniel Kong

    What markets do you invest in? SFHs/duplexes? What kind of COC return are you getting?

    I invest here on Maui and have been lucky to pull of 20-25% COC returns (although that's probably not scalable here) mostly by getting some really good deals in a very low priced condo. Also due to the fact that I self manage, since I have PM experience. If I had to pay a PM I would be around a 15-20% COC return.

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2018 · 335 posts · 251 votes
    7y

    @Greg Gaudet Wow that is phenomenal COC for Hawaii!! I'm getting 15-25% COC with no vacancies or major repairs (That would drop the number) with SFHs in Indy . PM me to chat more, don't wanna hijack this thread lol.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Greg Gaudet:

    @Daniel Kong

    What markets do you invest in? SFHs/duplexes? What kind of COC return are you getting?

    I invest here on Maui and have been lucky to pull of 20-25% COC returns (although that's probably not scalable here) mostly by getting some really good deals in a very low priced condo. Also due to the fact that I self manage, since I have PM experience. If I had to pay a PM I would be around a 15-20% COC return.

    this would be hard to duplicate in other states unless your process's were the same as you have on Maui  I E you source and run it yourself and don't pay others to do those things for you.. if your doing what you do in Maui then yes you can duplicate that in most any market on the mainland.  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Kong:

    @Greg Gaudet Wow that is phenomenal COC for Hawaii!! I'm getting 15-25% COC with no vacancies or major repairs (That would drop the number) with SFHs in Indy . PM me to chat more, don't wanna hijack this thread lol.

     its an 8 year old thread no hijacking  LOL

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2018 · 335 posts · 251 votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs Ahhh haha didn't notice that! Ok hijack away lol. 

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 84 votes
    7y

    So far so good!     David Greene has a really great book on out of state investing.    

    I got started and only invest out of state.   

    Much success,

    Paul

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:

    So far so good!     David Greene has a really great book on out of state investing.    

    I got started and only invest out of state.   

    Much success,

    Paul

     INdiana is considered out of state.. you mean you live in Indiana and invest elsewhere..  Indiana is one of the hottest out of state markets in the country. 

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 84 votes
    7y
    Hey Jay,

    I live in Michigan (Detroit Metro) and own 4 rental properties in Indianapolis.

    Paul

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:

    So far so good!     David Greene has a really great book on out of state investing.    

    I got started and only invest out of state.   

    Much success,

    Paul

     INdiana is considered out of state.. you mean you live in Indiana and invest elsewhere..  Indiana is one of the hottest out of state markets in the country. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:
    Hey Jay,

    I live in Michigan (Detroit Metro) and own 4 rental properties in Indianapolis.

    Paul

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:

    So far so good!     David Greene has a really great book on out of state investing.    

    I got started and only invest out of state.   

    Much success,

    Paul

     INdiana is considered out of state.. you mean you live in Indiana and invest elsewhere..  Indiana is one of the hottest out of state markets in the country. 

    Detroit metro is also making a big come back. !!! 

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 84 votes
    7y
    It sure is!     The Detroit metro area is pretty hot right now real estate wise.   Taxes in many of those areas though are ridiculous compared to Indianapolis.    All things being equal ... taxes can be $1000-$2000 per year more than Indianapolis.   That quickly makes or breaks cashflow.

    Detroit is still a very unique market.   You've got to know it well because it isn't down to zip codes or schools.   It is literally street to street.   You've got to know what you are doing if you are going to invest in Detroit proper.    The city isn't doing investors any favors either...   They can sometimes (often?) be very difficult to deal with inspections etc.

    Indianapolis is a great market to invest in.   The city has been good to me.   Property taxes are very reasonable.   Lots of wholesalers moving deals my way.    I grew up near Lafayette and attended Purdue.   So I'm a little nostalgic about Indiana anyways.


    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:
    Hey Jay,

    I live in Michigan (Detroit Metro) and own 4 rental properties in Indianapolis.

    Paul

    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Paul Beets:

    So far so good!     David Greene has a really great book on out of state investing.    

    I got started and only invest out of state.   

    Much success,

    Paul

     INdiana is considered out of state.. you mean you live in Indiana and invest elsewhere..  Indiana is one of the hottest out of state markets in the country. 

    Detroit metro is also making a big come back. !!! 

  • Realtor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Mike McKinzie those numbers look phenomenal, could you tell us what types of units those are and what types of neighborhoods they are in?

  • Greg GaudetPro Member
    Investor · Pukalani, HI · Member since 2017 · 414 posts · 291 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Kong:

    @Greg Gaudet Wow that is phenomenal COC for Hawaii!! I'm getting 15-25% COC with no vacancies or major repairs (That would drop the number) with SFHs in Indy . PM me to chat more, don't wanna hijack this thread

    I should have clarified, that's also with really low M&Vs; That COC would be lower if I had PM and high M&Vs; I would probably average 15% then. But I think that being really vigilant with my tenant screening helps to keep my vacancies down.

    Like I said, I know these returns are not scalable. Especially because the condos I buy have doubled in value in the last two years. They still provide a really good return, but it's getting harder to find those really good ones. 

    That's a great return too, especially considering that you're paying PM and not managing yourself! 

  • Property Manager · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2014 · 380 posts · 167 votes
    7y

    @Michael Seutin

    Not true at all. I have investors from all over US, Canada, Italy, London, Russia and they are killing it!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 439 posts · 578 votes
    7y

    It’s 2019 and distance really shouldn’t limit your investing at this point. I’m planning on purchasing a few OOS properties to supplement Ca properties. I’ll go out and get eyes on the property and probably check in during rehab (if needed) but that’s only because I want to and my W2 affords got plenty of time off to do it. If I had to.... could easily pay someone to handle it for you. I think the biggest hurdle is finding good PMs. Get referrals. Vet them. Make sure you don’t get locked into a contract. I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread for tips/tricks I may have missed. Thanks for starting it.

  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I'm kinda late to the thread but most of my properties are out-of-state, they do as well as any rental property can, and I sleep great at night. PMs are a pain, but if it's a trade-off between dealing with them and landlording properties myself, I'll take the PM pain all day long.

  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Brian Charles:

    Has anyone purchased their FIRST property out of state, or is that left to the more seasoned investors? The prices and cashflow analysis in my market don't make much sense to me, but I'm a bit intimidated on having my first property out of arms reach.

    Technically my first property was out of country (Nicaragua), but my sustained REI career started with my first properties (and most of them now) being out of state. There's really no reason why a new investor couldn't go long-distance-- it's just a different skillset to learn than if you were landlording locally to you. Either way, you have to learn a skillset. Might as well just pick the one that best fits your goals.

  • Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I think it would be true to say there are only 3 primary reasons OOS investors fail.

    1.  They don't find decent property managers. This can be hard so you have to be patient and keep asking in places like BP until you can secure the best possible management.  Then you should be fine. Management is pretty much EVERYTHING.

    2.  They try and flip and do rehabs and other strategies that require trusted teams they haven't built. So they have a big sign on their head saying "rip me off, I'm thousands of miles away and don't know what I'm doing".  Anytime you contact a contractor and you're basically asking for their help because you're out of state etc. you're asking for trouble.

    3.  They don't really do their research and pick ONE MARKET and stick to it.  Yes there are lots of investors here on BP who are in multiple cities but everything is harder. Now you need a great PM in EVERY city. You have to analyse demographics in EVERY city.  You need contractors for EVERY city.  The list goes on.  Pick 1 city/town, get to know it well vicariously and stick to it. You'll do far better over time as there is much less guesswork about areas, rents, demographics etc.

    Understand the above and you'll be fine.

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 261 posts · 143 votes
    7y

    @Michael Seutin

    Reach out to @Omar Khan

    He is from Dallas, TX and invests in 100-200 unit apartments in Jacksonville, FL and is expanding into Atlanta and Phoenix.

  • Real Estate Agent · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 450 posts · 196 votes
    7y

    Yes, my first investment property was out of state, in Indianapolis, with a partner. I was unimpressed by the PM, so we ended up selling it. I own investments both locally in Hawaii and out of state, as I don't like to just pick cash flow or appreciation, since I want both. For out of state, PM is definitely a must, and I would never self manage from afar. 

  • Real Estate Broker · East TN Loudon/Lenoir City/Tellico Village · Member since 2014 · 363 posts · 222 votes
    7y

    @Michael Seutin

    YES to feeding off positive people. 

    Yes to being successful as out of state investor

    Yes to PPY managers.

    I have had properties in Huntsville, AL and Madison , AL with a PM for a few years now and it is worry and stress free. So worth it. 

    I have invested out of state when we lived the past 15 years in SoCAL first in St George, UT and Smoky Mtn TN. We have been very successful to the point where my husband retired from  his job to live the dream. 

    It's different and not always easy but so totally worth it. Don't let the negative posters discourage you. 

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