Fund & Grow Financing

Creative Real Estate Financing
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Fund & Grow Financing

Justin SheleyBusiness Member
Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 220 votes

After listening to the Clayton Morris podcast (EP115 with Mike Banks) about the company Fund & Grow, I became intrigued with the idea of using business credit cards to buy rental properties using the BRRRR method. The whole concept seemed too good to be true, so I hopped on BiggerPockets to see what people were saying about Fund & Grow. I always find great content here, and more often than not I find the answer to my question before I even need to post and ask about it. However, with Fund & Grow, I didn't find much. (If anyone knows of a discussion about Fund & Grow that I didn't find please link me to it) There are a few discussions where people were considering using Fund & Grow to finance a deal, but none that I saw that went all the way through the process and used the funds to find a deal.

That being said, I decided to start this discussion post and share my experience with the company from day 1 till I refinance and hopefully complete the BRRRR method.

For anyone not familiar with Fund & Grow, they are a company started by Ari Page that helps you establish business lines of credit for the purpose of creating working capital for small businesses. In my case, I will be using the line of credit to buy properties in Rockford, IL and rehab them into rental properties.

Phase 1:

Currently I have enrolled with Fund & Grow and completed my initial consultation. This cost $3,000 for their service of negotiating and securing the business credit cards. I spent 1 hr on the phone with a very friendly consultant and discussed my plans for the business credit and established a sole proprietorship for both my wife and I. This allows the business lines of credit to not affect my personal credit score.  The first push for business credit will begin next week, and I should have access to an anticipated 60k by the following week. My wife is not currently receiving accounts yet until a more established credit history can be created for her.  We are currently lining up several refinancing options with banks in the area so that they are aware of what we intend to do. Currently we are being told that we can refinance the properties we buy with cash after 6 months. This is key for us, because we intend to buy and hold these properties and do not want to get stuck after the initial 12 months of 0% interest expires on our business credit cards.

Phase 2 is going to be actually receiving the cash into our account and making our cash purchase. I tried for brevity sake to not go into the entire Fund & Grow concept in my initial post, but if anyone has any questions, comments, or concerns I'd love to discuss them.

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Drew Cameron
Lender · Peabody, MA · Member since 2015 · 82 posts · 49 votes
9y
I used a similar system to receive roughly $40,000 in credit cards at 0% for a 12 month period. The company I used took 10% upfront and then helped me liquidate everything so I had usable funds fairly quick. I was able to do a flip with the funding I received and pay back all the money before my interest free period ran out. It was expensive, but the flip more than covered everything and I was able to get in the game. I would do it all over again if I had to.
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  • Jennifer Bacani
    Investor · Lake Forest, CA · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    I hadn’t done second round because I’m currently studying for my exam. I had them put it on hold until I am ready. They have been keeping in touch and following up with me though. They do a great job with that!  When I’m ready I will want to keep moving forward with them. 

    0Reply
  • SL Dillard
    Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    I signed up with Fund & Grow at the beginning of May 2018 with credit scores of 785-803. (My enrollment fee is good for 1 year of service).

    I explained at the time that my intent was to get a card or cards with 0% introductory rates, and then roll over my CC balances to new cards when the introductory rates expired in 12 months.  I figured I could apply for new cards (and roll over my balances) within my one-year service with F&G.  I was told this is entirely doable.

    By the beginning of July 2018 (2 months later), I had been approved for 4 new credit cards with a total credit limit of $29,000.00 (one of those was for my established business). They all had 0% interest for purchases and balance transfers for 12-15 months.

    My personal credit scores dropped 110 to 120 points due to the inquiries and level of credit I used.

    F&G suggests you wait 6 months before applying for the next round of credit applications and in the meantime, work on eliminating your credit inquiries and build your business credit scores - which I did.

    Around January, 2019, I was ready for my 2nd round of funding.  However, I discovered that to get my credit scores back up, I had to pay off all the balances of my 1st round of cards BEFORE applying for new cards.  (Thus, my plan to roll over my balances did not work :-(  .)

    Once my credit scores were restored (around March 2019), F&G obtained 25k on 3 new cards in the name of a NEW business F&G established for me (not the one I've had for several years and had been working to build my D&B credit.(?) )

    F&G provides instructions on how to utilize your new credit lines - including how to obtain cash from your cards.  One easy method that they do not include is to set up 2 PayPal accounts - one business and one personal.  For a small fee, you can pay your business account from your personal account with your new credit card. Then, you simply transfer your PayPal account balance to your bank account for free.  (I actually use the SAME BANK for both PayPal accounts!).

    In summary:

    F&G's customer service is top-notch. My representative, Bianca Rivera, is very thorough with her instructions and very quick to respond to my questions. She has kept me fully informed on actions F&G has taken on my behalf and their results.

    Even though my plan to roll over my old CC balances to new 0% cards has not worked for me, I still feel F&G's service is useful.  I believe their process works best for businesses where cash is needed for a short period of time and the balance can be paid off before the 0% introductory rate expires (real estate deals, for example).

    0Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y
    @SL Dillard 

    I am confused. Fund and Grow claims that once you are approved the credit lines go under the business score and DO NOT affect your personal credit regardless of how much you are borrowing at any given time. As I understand it only effects PERSONAL credit score if you become delinquent. The use of the cards otherwise is supposed to help build and effect the business credit score only. 

    Am I misunderstanding something? Thanks for your input!

    Originally posted by @SL Dillard:

    I signed up with Fund & Grow at the beginning of May 2018 with credit scores of 785-803. (My enrollment fee is good for 1 year of service).

    I explained at the time that my intent was to get a card or cards with 0% introductory rates, and then roll over my CC balances to new cards when the introductory rates expired in 12 months.  I figured I could apply for new cards (and roll over my balances) within my one-year service with F&G.  I was told this is entirely doable.

    By the beginning of July 2018 (2 months later), I had been approved for 4 new credit cards with a total credit limit of $29,000.00 (one of those was for my established business). They all had 0% interest for purchases and balance transfers for 12-15 months.

    My personal credit scores dropped 110 to 120 points due to the inquiries and level of credit I used.

    F&G suggests you wait 6 months before applying for the next round of credit applications and in the meantime, work on eliminating your credit inquiries and build your business credit scores - which I did.

    Around January, 2019, I was ready for my 2nd round of funding.  However, I discovered that to get my credit scores back up, I had to pay off all the balances of my 1st round of cards BEFORE applying for new cards.  (Thus, my plan to roll over my balances did not work :-(  .)

    Once my credit scores were restored (around March 2019), F&G obtained 25k on 3 new cards in the name of a NEW business F&G established for me (not the one I've had for several years and had been working to build my D&B credit.(?) )

    F&G provides instructions on how to utilize your new credit lines - including how to obtain cash from your cards.  One easy method that they do not include is to set up 2 PayPal accounts - one business and one personal.  For a small fee, you can pay your business account from your personal account with your new credit card. Then, you simply transfer your PayPal account balance to your bank account for free.  (I actually use the SAME BANK for both PayPal accounts!).

    In summary:

    F&G's customer service is top-notch. My representative, Bianca Rivera, is very thorough with her instructions and very quick to respond to my questions. She has kept me fully informed on actions F&G has taken on my behalf and their results.

    Even though my plan to roll over my old CC balances to new 0% cards has not worked for me, I still feel F&G's service is useful.  I believe their process works best for businesses where cash is needed for a short period of time and the balance can be paid off before the 0% introductory rate expires (real estate deals, for example).

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    Two card trick...

    Some credit cards allow you to withdraw money into your bank account from your credit card with zero fee and at a lowish rate of interest (4.9% as example)

    Then, using a balance transfer card with a long interest-free period with another credit card provider you can then use the 'two card trick'.

    Withdraw the maximum amount of cash from the money transfer card into your bank account, then balance transfer the same amount to the interest-free credit card.

    You may get charged a day or two's interest, but it will be pennies.

    0Reply
  • SL Dillard
    Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Steve Juba

    Hi Steve - I did not have ANY business credit when I first signed up with F&G so most of this past year was used building my business credit.  Thus, my first round of funding required using my personal credit scores and provided primarily personal credit lines (which caused my personal credit scores to tank).  Only 1 small business credit line was obtained.  

    For the 2nd round of funding, since my business credit was still weak, my personal credit scores still had to be used :-( .  However, ALL of my 2nd round funding resulted in business accounts, so this second round has not impacted my personal credit scores as much (my scores have dropped only about 10 points due to the new inquiries.)

    IF I decide to sign up with F&G for a 2nd year, I believe my business credit should be well enough established to not have to use my personal credit scores.

    1Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y
    Thanks for clarifying. Interesting because the business the cards are going under also will be new and does not have business credit but the rep told me all the cards will be in the business name and even though my personal score is used to qualify, it would not effect my personal credit at all unless there is outstanding debt past due...

    I'll have to dig deeper since this is not what you were able to do...

    Originally posted by @SL Dillard:

    @Steve Juba

    Hi Steve - I did not have ANY business credit when I first signed up with F&G so most of this past year was used building my business credit.  Thus, my first round of funding required using my personal credit scores and provided primarily personal credit lines (which caused my personal credit scores to tank).  Only 1 small business credit line was obtained.  

    For the 2nd round of funding, since my business credit was still weak, my personal credit scores still had to be used :-( .  However, ALL of my 2nd round funding resulted in business accounts, so this second round has not impacted my personal credit scores as much (my scores have dropped only about 10 points due to the new inquiries.)

    IF I decide to sign up with F&G for a 2nd year, I believe my business credit should be well enough established to not have to use my personal credit scores.

    0Reply
  • Konti Leci
    Flipper/Rehabber · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    I first heard of Fund & Grow from Morris Invest. I was on the fence for a period of time but eventually decided to make that jump and try. So far, I have not regretted it. First round I was approved for $86,000 but because I already had a business card with 25k credit limit, Brandon Kroon told me that that can be rolled into my other new card, so the total amount is $111k. 

    Now I am about to use Plastique to use that money to buy real estate. 

    This was a great experience to me and I believe that this is a very good way to buy real estate and use the BRRRR method.

    0Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y
    Thanks for your feedback. I am still trying to find a viable way to cash out refinance on the other end in order to pay back the cards within the 12 month no finance period. Delayed financing only loans on the purchase price and usually max 80% of that so cannot get the entire amount back to pay the card. This is even more augmented when adding 10K+  after purchase if rehabs are needed.... Any advice??

    Originally posted by @Konti Leci:

    I first heard of Fund & Grow from Morris Invest. I was on the fence for a period of time but eventually decided to make that jump and try. So far, I have not regretted it. First round I was approved for $86,000 but because I already had a business card with 25k credit limit, Brandon Kroon told me that that can be rolled into my other new card, so the total amount is $111k. 

    Now I am about to use Plastique to use that money to buy real estate. 

    This was a great experience to me and I believe that this is a very good way to buy real estate and use the BRRRR method.

    0Reply
  • Konti Leci
    Flipper/Rehabber · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Juba:
    Thanks for your feedback. I am still trying to find a viable way to cash out refinance on the other end in order to pay back the cards within the 12 month no finance period. Delayed financing only loans on the purchase price and usually max 80% of that so cannot get the entire amount back to pay the card. This is even more augmented when adding 10K+  after purchase if rehabs are needed.... Any advice??

    Originally posted by @Konti Leci:

    I first heard of Fund & Grow from Morris Invest. I was on the fence for a period of time but eventually decided to make that jump and try. So far, I have not regretted it. First round I was approved for $86,000 but because I already had a business card with 25k credit limit, Brandon Kroon told me that that can be rolled into my other new card, so the total amount is $111k. 

    Now I am about to use Plastique to use that money to buy real estate. 

    This was a great experience to me and I believe that this is a very good way to buy real estate and use the BRRRR method.

    Steve, If I am understanding you correctly, the secret here is to find a discounted property. For example, I bought a property with hard money lender for 60k, the ARV is 90k. I only put 5k in cosmetic work. What I will do now, is to refinance the property and get even more than 65k from this property. You need to find a house that is at least 80% of the market value.

    0Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y
    RIght but the problem is you cannot refinance right away based on the ARV. You can only get up to 80% max of the PURCHASE PRICE....so that does not give you the money back to pay the card off right away.  If you have a way of getting the money back at least 100% of purchase or based off of the ARV in less than 6 months from purchase I am all ears!!??

    Your example below would be a max of 48 K loan which is not enough to pay the 60K you pulled from the cards unless you use 12 K of your own money....

    Originally posted by @Konti Leci:
    Originally posted by @Steve Juba:
    Thanks for your feedback. I am still trying to find a viable way to cash out refinance on the other end in order to pay back the cards within the 12 month no finance period. Delayed financing only loans on the purchase price and usually max 80% of that so cannot get the entire amount back to pay the card. This is even more augmented when adding 10K+  after purchase if rehabs are needed.... Any advice??

    Originally posted by @Konti Leci:

    I first heard of Fund & Grow from Morris Invest. I was on the fence for a period of time but eventually decided to make that jump and try. So far, I have not regretted it. First round I was approved for $86,000 but because I already had a business card with 25k credit limit, Brandon Kroon told me that that can be rolled into my other new card, so the total amount is $111k. 

    Now I am about to use Plastique to use that money to buy real estate. 

    This was a great experience to me and I believe that this is a very good way to buy real estate and use the BRRRR method.

    Steve, If I am understanding you correctly, the secret here is to find a discounted property. For example, I bought a property with hard money lender for 60k, the ARV is 90k. I only put 5k in cosmetic work. What I will do now, is to refinance the property and get even more than 65k from this property. You need to find a house that is at least 80% of the market value.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/topics/460294

    Very informative 

    0Reply
  • SL Dillard
    Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Steve Juba:  You wrote:  "Thanks for clarifying. Interesting because the business the cards are going under also will be new and does not have business credit but the rep told me all the cards will be in the business name and even though my personal score is used to qualify, it would not effect my personal credit at all unless there is outstanding debt past due..."

    I'm sorry to tell you that if your personal credit is used when applying for your business credit lines, the CC companies will make inquiries on your personal credit with the Credit Bureaus.  Each inquiry WILL lower your personal credit scores and remain in your record for 3 years.  It is not a big hit, but a ding nevertheless. 

    F&G does provide instructions on how to remove these inquiries if you want to DYI - or they offer their affiliate service to do it for you.  I recommend NOT using their service.  It is way expensive and I question how they can charge you up front for the service (which is illegal).

    There are many companies out there that can help you improve your personal credit scores and only charge you WHEN a negative item is removed from your Credit Bureau report(s).

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    Yes correct, any new LLC finance is dependent on your personal score and will involve personal hard inquiries, but they stay on file 2 years not 3, and only affect the score for 1

    0Reply
  • Daniel Rutledge
    Anderson, SC · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    Im getting ready for a second round which was delayed because the company i used to assist in the inquiry removal failed to get anything removed. I had to wait for all inquiries to season before going for round 2.

    0Reply
  • Sasha Josephs
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 115 posts · 29 votes
    7y

    @Micah Markowitz

    Which places? Can you name them?

    0Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y
    Right but hard inquiries only effect 5-10 points max and as many as you can apply for within 30 days. You mentioned losing 100 pts because you were using the credit lines and utilization was knocking it down. These are business cards tied to LLC/EIN #, NOT your social so they should not effect your score when pulling out cash as long as its paid on time. 

    Did I misunderstand you or are you getting these cards under your social sec. for some reason? They use your personal score as a personal guarantee but it doesn't effect your personal score in terms of using the cards....

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Yes correct, any new LLC finance is dependent on your personal score and will involve personal hard inquiries, but they stay on file 2 years not 3, and only affect the score for 1

    0Reply
  • Daniel Rutledge
    Anderson, SC · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 40 votes
    7y
    Some cards they utilize will show on your report but they tell you this before applying for them. I had one card that was tied to my personal report and forgot. I quickly remembered when i maxed it out and lost 60 points right before i pulled a HELOC.

    Originally posted by @Steve Juba:
    Right but hard inquiries only effect 5-10 points max and as many as you can apply for within 30 days. You mentioned losing 100 pts because you were using the credit lines and utilization was knocking it down. These are business cards tied to LLC/EIN #, NOT your social so they should not effect your score when pulling out cash as long as its paid on time. 

    Did I misunderstand you or are you getting these cards under your social sec. for some reason? They use your personal score as a personal guarantee but it doesn't effect your personal score in terms of using the cards....

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Yes correct, any new LLC finance is dependent on your personal score and will involve personal hard inquiries, but they stay on file 2 years not 3, and only affect the score for 1

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    Capital One & Discover business cards report to personal credit, others may do also ?

    Perhaps what is being referred to here is business cards with a high utilization will prevent or limit the possibility of further business cards or limit increases

    Business credit is useful because it is hidden , and as I have illustrated, it’s simple to get the cash out of the cards at 0%

    What might be prudent is to use the business cards lightly for the initial 6 months, and then after limits are raised or more cards are granted, then use it heavily......judging  when to pull the pin is down to personal situations 

    Home Depot and Lowe’s accounts make sense for covering refurb costs and again if business accounts do not affect your personal credit even if used to the max

    0Reply
  • Irina Belkofer
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Capital One & Discover business cards report to personal credit, others may do also ?

     Citi, BofA and US Bank don't report business cards to personal credit.

    Don't have business CapitalOne and Discover but good to know. Thank you!

    0Reply
  • Steve Juba
    Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Yes this is an extremely important factor to consider. I will say F&G is very transparent about this and seems to always require approval from the investor before apply for any cards let alone the ones like Cap one that go back to your personal credit. As long as you do not have them go after those cards personal credit should not be majorly impacted other than small point hits during application inquiries....

    0Reply
  • Richard McCray
    Flipper/Rehabber · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2009 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    It took awhile to get my bureau reports in order and my other balances where they needed to be. Fund & Grow guided me through it all step by step and got me to where I was optimized for credit approvals. Jason Alonzo at F&G handled my applications process and got me approved for just under $50k in credit to use in my business. I am very happy with the service provided. I was a bit skeptical at first, but these folks are the real deal. Very professional and excellent customer service.

    2Reply
  • Laura Verderber
    Rental Property Investor · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 52 votes
    7y

    I worked with Sabrina Ubele at Fund and Grow. They were worth the money I spent. Increased my credit score and got $64,000 in funding. I pay contractors with the credit cards at 0 -3% then refinance and pay it all off a few months later. I have done 4 properties so far with this method.

    2Reply
  • Laura Verderber
    Rental Property Investor · Fairhope, AL · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 52 votes
    7y


    Have you tried a local bank? Mine did a commercial refinance loan for 85% ARV at 20 years.

    Originally posted by @Steve Juba:

    I am also considering F&G but do not see any stories on the 2nd half of this equation as stated above: What are you doing with the money?? In order for this to work the refinancing within 12 months is key. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience getting 100% cash out refinancing on a F&G purchased property that they can pay back the credit debt with and then hold and rent OR flip? I am struggling finding cash out refinance lenders that offer more than the purchase price of the home EVEN IF the current value after repair is appraised much higher. Without the lending/financing part the available credit is useless. 

    Any help/suggestions to make this strategy work and pay back the credit cards in time? MUCH APPRECIATED! Thank you all.

    Steve

    0Reply
  • Niraj Shah
    Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    While there are cards that offer 0% intro APR even for balance transfer, there seems to be 4-5% fee for the amount being transferred. How do you get around that for this trick to work?

    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    0Reply
  • Josh KoettPro Member
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 43 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    Hello BP Community,  

    I just listened to the Fund & Grow webinar and it sounds like a legit  company and service they provide.  However, I would like to do this on my own.   I only need $15,000 to start a trucking business but might take advantage of higher amounts  to rehab a  property in the future.  Could anyone give me some advice who has done this?  So far I have no business credit.  I only have a couple high interest personal credit cards with no balances.  I have zero debt and a credit score just over 800.  

    I plan on going into Chase bank and applying for a business credit card. In the webinar, they said to create a safe and lendable "entity"name to help get funding. What would work for that lendable entity name? Should I use my trucking company's name and LLC? Other than being persistent in speaking with underwriting, are there some tactics I could use If I'm not approved for the entire amount? How many days apart should I retry? Once approved, how would you get the money off the cards ? F&G said they use a company called Plastiq for around 2.5%. If I haven't paid off the balance after the 0% APR time-frame, I plan on doing a balance transfer into another long term 0% card. Eventually, I'd like to have just one high limit card I can hold onto. If anyone could offer some advice on how to approach this and avoid fees, it would be appreciated. Thank you, Josh

    0Reply
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