HELP! Should I stick with law school or start my life?

HELP! Should I stick with law school or start my life?

The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes

Hey Guys and Gals,

This is not your typical post on BP but, since y'all are going to be similar to me and looking at things from a financial sense I would like to hear your opinions. And a lot of you have experience with what I would eventually like to get into also.

First off, I graduated from a state university with an undergrad in Finance then decided to make the plunge into law school. Moved down to North Carolina and am currently a 1L law student. Took out a 25k graduate loan that has a 6.9% interest rate that is accruing from the moment taken out, even while in school and now I am scared.

Law school is okay, I am top 30% in my class which is okay, but the debt concerns me. As you all know lawyers are a dime a dozen. The market is saturated and I am seeing that even for an "unpaid internship" the market is competitive! It disgusts me. I am questioning whether I made the right financial choice and have plans to finish my 1L year and move on with my life.

At the end of the day I do things as most of you that benefit me financially and will make my life more comfortable. Multiple people and attorneys told me to be weary of law school but I said, "no I will be the exception" and get those high paying jobs. Now I am thinking I may have made a mistake.

I guess I was hoping if any of you are attorneys or have experience with them in real estate what you thought or recommend? Just trying to learn from people's experience that have gone through what I am doing and what others can see.

Thanks in advance!

1Reply
247 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y

Same basic concerns of a burned out biology engineering student last night, after discussions he has decided to bite the bullet and finish school. Which is what I'd suggest you do too.

Along with Andrew's comment as to work and go to school, a couple options maybe.

You might really dislike the military, but you'd be a JAG Officer out of school, you'll be an O3 by the end of a year, hang around into year 4 you'll be an O4, not sure what the pay scale is but I'll bet is better than most firms starting off. Just to set you at ease, JAGs are not out in the field as seen on TV, you're at a Division level (Army) or higher, not many bullets fly in that area. Then get out with bills paid and hang your shingle out.

Look to government. If your finance degree had 12 hours or more that qualifies as an accounting major, look to regulatory agencies in banking FDIC, Treasury, Fed, and even the CFBP (who has a great pay schedule) would allow you to work and finish school. Finance is the key to the door of RE, any type of RE.

I know several attorneys well, all are successful in their practice. I know of many more. One comes to mind in family law that I doubt he can afford new shoes to go to court, that or he's very thrifty. I hired an attorney full time with about 5 years out for, well, I better not say, but a GS 9 or an O2 in the military would make more.

No degree of any kind will make you wealthy, it only opens the door to opportunities of a better quality of life, financially and socially. What you do with it is up to you and a law degree opens about any door in business.

You won't be walking into an institution as an underwriter where you are right now, you're about two years out if you got in the right position starting as a loan officer. You might get into compliance to train, that's another alternative in a larger bank. Neither are exciting nor are you overpaid. What you get is experience that you can adopt in your own business.

Obviously you had a goal, so now the question is, what are you made of? That's giving you a swift kick in the tail, employers and successful people want those who complete goals, will make things happen, regardless of the roadblocks or hardships encountered. Nothing will be handed to you, unless you have a wealthy family, you will have to work hard and make sacrifices to succeed, that's part of success, the fight getting there. When you are my age will you be able to truthfully say that you did everything you could to be what and who you wanted to be?

I'd say finish the cheapest way you can. Unless your heart lies in corporate law in a large firm or getting into politics, the license is the goal, not trying to set yourself up with old college buddies. Most likely, your social network will be local in your area of operations. While I know folks nationally, they don't really impact RE in my area and really never had to call on them as all RE is local. If you go into a planning and zoning hearing it won't matter one bit if you went to Harvard or if you went to night school at some state school. Old school buddies aren't likely to influence your building department or your city council in getting what you need, unless they are on city council. RE is political and any law degree can open that door.

It's impossible for you to measure the opportunity costs of your choice, but I think you may be overvaluing the jobs you might get now and undervaluing the value of your future as an attorney or having a JD. Three of the largest developers in this area are/were attorneys. Three others are attorneys who are in home developments and custom homes. They are all self made multi millionaires, and really, they ain't that brilliant, but they do have the gonads to go after goals and make things happen.

My crystal ball says finish school, one way or another, succeed! Your worst enemy is often yourself. :)

See this reply in the discussion

60 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    12y

    I'd say being a lawyer would be a great asset in this business. I'd stick it out if you have made it this far.

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @James Wise I appreciate the encouragement. I agree with the above as it would be useful in many avenues of real estate. My concern is the debt that I will incur. At the end of 3 years I will have approximately 70k in graduate loans. I guess it is a balancing act with me, is that debt truly worth the benefit to my life?

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    12y

    A law degree. I think it's well worth the debt.

    I'm not someone who believes people should blindly go to college because it's the responsible thing to do. I think WAY less people should go to college. For instance all the Barista's working at the local coffee shop sporting those expensive psychology degrees they would prolly be way better off without a mountain of student debt over their head.

    But again a law degree is a very usefull and important degree to have.

  • Laurel, MD · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 17 votes
    12y

    Sounds to me like you have the brains and the drive to be financially successful. You can always study specific parts of law that will help advance your financial investing on your own. Save the debt and take the plunge if you know in your gut that that is where you plan to end up anyway. Good luck either way.

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @Andraise Scott Thank you for the kind words :) I hope I do as well. The debt of law school and interest is the scariest part to me. Having a law degree today is appearing more and more like only an average at best lifestyle and pay grade, coupled with that high interest debt holds me back from starting my life and investment ideas. I am definitely at a crossroads in my life and would like to make the most sound and best financial choice I can make.

    I also do see the upside, but I mentioned to James I am not sure the debt is proportionate to the positives.

  • Laurel, MD · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 17 votes
    12y

    $70K+ could buy 2,3,4, creatively 5 cash flowing properties. You already have some legal knowledge that will help you in your deals and dealings with your RE attorney. I would still say, study specific (real estate, landlord/tenant issues, liens, etc.) and get on with your financial life. You'll be just fine.

  • Investor · Sunnyvale, CA · Member since 2013 · 62 posts · 19 votes
    12y

    Is $70k the total amount or just the law school debt? If that's it then I think you should finish law school. It's a very useful skill-set and fallback plan. It shouldn't take too long to pay off and it's low interest debt. Now if you said $200k I think I'd definitely consider moving on.

  • Sharad M.Pro Member
    Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Hi @Steve Hyduchak

    At the end of the day you have to ask yourself, where do you see yourself in 5, 10, 15 years from now. If you see yourself being a lawyer and being happy, then stick it out.

    If you see yourself being a lawyer in the future and hating the thought of it, don't do it. Just because you have already incurred $25k debt, don't follow through by throwing good money after bad.

    At one point in my career when I was working as an accountant, I thought of going to law school, I started studying for LSAT, joined coaching classes, but the more and more I went to classes, I started hating the idea of me being an attorney and I got out of it.

    If your ultimate goal is to be a real estate investor, then do what makes you happy. I left a nice paying corporate job to become a real estate investor and couldn't be happier with that decision.

    There are some things in life that are always going to be more important than money :)

    Best wishes

    Sharad

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @Glen Sonnenberg The debt for all 3 years of my law school would be 70k, not minding the 6.9% interest that is building all while going to school so realistically more near 86-90k when all is said in done.

    @Sharad M. Appreciate the words and encouragement. That is the question at the end of day. Whether or not I will be happy doing it? And partly income and salary comes into play on that, my concern is I would enjoy it but while having a debt to an average paying job. I guess what I am trying to say the argument that goes "do what you love" can only go so far when wages can't make it a valuable "investment" for law school. That is my issue.

    But again I appreciate everyone's opinion. The best way is to learn from others' experiences and I am soaking up a lot of what people are saying on here everyday!

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2013 · 225 posts · 91 votes
    12y

    I would be concerned.. for all the reasons you mentioned and some you didn't.

    One question that hasn't been answered: What is the alternative?

    If you quit and "get on with your life"... what does that mean?

  • Rental Property Investor · Brookline, MA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 777 votes
    12y

    I'd stick it out.

    Find some investors and come up with a creative way to even out your debt payment while still in college. 90k in debt, spread out over 25 years, is about ~$600/month. So your investing goal by the end of Law School should be AT LEAST ~$600/month in investment income from real estate.

    The major advantage of being a lawyer is the pay check. Your W2 income should be phenomenal no matter where you end up working. And once you are a partner, even at a small firm of your own making, the sky is the limit for W2 income.

    And the nice part about using real estate to pay off debts is the simple fact that it keeps paying you once the debts are gone.

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @Mark Whittlesey My alternative is using my finance degree and background and starting somewhere at a bank as an underwriter or something similar. Doing that while saving money for investing into rentals around college towns. That is just the short term, who knows the future? But the debt is scaring me. @Aaron Montague I appreciate the advice. That is the belief of a lot of people but a dwindling one. Having a law degree in this economy does not mean a higher income by any means. Sure there is some that make it to the top of firms and make 150k+ but the odds are getting smaller and smaller. I do not go to a top tier school, a lower ranked state law school so my chances are even smaller to break into their "cliques."

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 431 posts · 106 votes
    12y

    I'd keep going with the law degree. If you're an entrepreneurial person setting up your own legal practice can quickly become fiscally rewarding. Handle some probate cases and you'll quickly gain lots of new friends right here on BP.

    Worst case if you despise practicing law you can always do something else.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brookline, MA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 777 votes
    12y

    My limited experience with people I know well that are lawyers:

    Friend 1: Lawyer in New York. Went to NYU Law (I think) with an engineering and biology background. Makes huge amounts of money working for a big investment company.

    Friend 2: Lawyer in VT. Went to Southern VT Law. Owns her own practice, is a state rep.

    Friend 3: Lawyer/MBA/PhD in Finance. Owns his own practice north of Boston. His child support payments alone are more than 100k/year to his ex wife.

    RE Lawyer 1: Lawyer in VT. Does my legal stuff for house purchases. His firm makes $900 a shot off me for legal stuff each time I buy a place. I'm pretty sure he does nothing but farm it off to his paralegal. He does show up for the closings when we use his office though. They also got me for $3000+ for an eviction case last winter. $225/hour to answer emails gets expensive, even in 6 minute chunks.

    I think being a lawyer in the modern world is much like being a real estate investor. You find yourself a niche doing something you like, start a practice and enjoy making a large amount of money.

  • Laurel, MD · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 17 votes
    12y

    Steve, "Rich Dad Poor Dad". And, my dad was a successful attorney so not hating on the legal field at all. You can do it.

  • Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    Hello Steve -

    I am a lawyer (bankruptcy law) and had a similar experience with law school (albeit 20 years ago). If you can get out with $70K in debt then it would make sense to finish and focus in on real estate law if that is where you want to be.

    Despite what everyone thinks (and it sounds like you know this already) you are not going to make much the first 5-7 years of your practice. It will be tight especially since the loans will be in repayment. But when you hit your stride and start making higher amounts you will have cash to invest.

    The practice of law will pay for itself and it will leave you on solid ground with money to invest. If you can tie your practice area to your real estate goals so much the better.

    Based on the fact that you are even asking this question leads me to believe you will be fine whatever you decide --- you haven't been deluded into thinking law school will turn you into a wealthy man over night.

    Best of luck -

    Kevin.

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I know a few lawyers, and I know a few people with law degrees that they don't "use". I think that if you are fascinated by law, and love the thought processes and negotiations and strategies that are involved, then you should become a lawyer. You'll like it, you'll be happy. Busy, but happy. If you are primarily thinking of being a lawyer in terms of what the financial rewards would be, I'd say no, you won't be happy. It's hard work, and incessant work, and you'd better love it or it will grind you down.


    I have a friend (retired now) who was a partner in a major firm in Denver- business law mostly. He really did love it, even got to argue a case before the Supreme Court. But as a Partner he had to bring in a sh*tload of money each year (to cover the expenses of the partnership) before he made anything at all. So it was basically work like crazy for six months for nothing, and then keep working like crazy if you want to have anything for yourself. He is certainly comfortable in his retirement, but he also (for the most part) enjoyed the day-to-day of his working life. If he hadn't it would have been a poor trade-off, IMO.

    There are lots of ways to create financial wealth. A happy life is trickier.
    Good luck however you decide!

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @Aaron Montague I do agree with the upside and just like real estate if you do your due diligence and find your niche market I do believe this is opportunity there of course. I do believe if I get my law degree and find a niche, hopefully near the beach :) I can still make it.

    But on the other hand I feel I can find a niche now with my undergrad degree and start making money and investing sooner than later. The opportunity cost it greater each year I wait and my debt increases. So, as you can see I am mixed up here. But, thanks for the examples I love to hear how people in the field are doing.

    @Jean Bolger Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I understand that is how my life would be especially partnered. Attorneys cost a lot and companies today are trying to minimize legal costs greatly, so if I cannot be an asset than I would not blame them. I just feel there is easier ways than working 70+ hours a week for years to make a decent wage. I like to think working hard is the best philosophy all the time, but working smart is just as important I believe.

  • House Flipper · East Stroudsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 205 votes
    12y

    Welcome to the BP family and as you have seen you have received rather good advice. I've met many college grads that had over $100,000 in debt and doing just fine. Being a real estate lawyer or trial lawer you will make up that money in no time; the banking industry is a yo yo industry, most major banks have had drastic reductions in force and they will continue. Focus on your good grades it certainly appears you have a good grasp on life and law school is only a few more years to the finish line. You just got my advice at no charge. Welcome aboard.

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Steve Hyduchak:

    ..... I just feel there is easier ways than working 70+ hours a week for years to make a decent wage.

    AND since you just happen to be posting on Biggerpockets, I think you may already have a pretty good idea how to manage that, lol!

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jean Bolger:
    Originally posted by @Steve Hyduchak:
    ..... I just feel there is easier ways than working 70+ hours a week for years to make a decent wage.

    AND since you just happen to be posting on Biggerpockets, I think you may already have a pretty good idea how to manage that, lol!

    You give me hope haha! This site has been so informational and useful. I am working on it, just trying to make the right moves to my life. I feel like I am player poker, all my cards are down and just want to pick the right one!

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Broomfield, CO · Member since 2013 · 390 posts · 125 votes
    12y

    @Steve Hyduchak It depends on your goals in life and your passion. If you have a passion for the law, do that. If you have a passion for real estate, I would think very carefully about continuing. If you want to make big money in law, you need to get your grades up. Top 10% minimum to work at one of the big firms making big money. You can always start at a smaller firm and move at some point. Keep in mind that if you get there, you will work a lot of hours. If you want to be a superstar associate at one of those firms and make partner quickly, you will work a LOT of hours. Go take an associate at one of those firms out for coffee and ask about his/her work schedule.

    If you just want to make the most money for the least work, REI is a better deal. However, it's still work. I haven't found that being an attorney gives me any real advantage in REI. It helps some, but the parts that are relevant could be learned in 6 months of "on the job" REI training. I think the biggest advantage is that everyone THINKS I know all the secrets.

    If you want to chat more, feel free to give me a call.

  • Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 144 posts · 65 votes
    12y

    Interesting post.

    What do you want to do? Prof. real estate investor (high risk / high reward) or be an attorney (risk-unknown--job??? / medium reward).

    I would never dream of being an attorney (at least not for others) but I do wish I would have gone to law-school (currently I sit in on BK classes, trusts classes, litigation processes, the fun stuff that can make me money.. the running joke with one of teachers is that I ask my $300 questions in class). 70% of my deals involve attorney work (I work with about 6 different lawyers). I have made this statement on BP before, "knowledge is real estate is power, it's more value than money". I would finish law-school but start thinking about the law as a prof. real estate investor not as an attorney looking for "billable hours". Focus on real property title flaws, it will make you rich & you can employ your law school cohorts.

    good luck

  • Rental Property Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2012 · 689 posts · 525 votes
    12y

    Steve,

    I know you said the debt is scaring you, but why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't you do both?

    How could you start saving money now for a rental property? How could you start getting more experience today to help build your real estate investing career while earning your law degree?

    Where are you getting your law degree from? NCCU, UNC or Duke? While I agree with you the market place is getting over-saturated with lawyers, where you get the degree from can really make a difference too. Sometimes the alumni network could easily be worth the 70-80k in debt.

  • The Poconos, PA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 9 votes
    12y

    @Dennis Lanni I think I am more high risk and am willing to do that now while I have limited ties. But I am curious as to why you still think law school is valuable? I am sure you are sitting in on the classes and learning the exact things that you need to know rather than take 90k in loans out for that info? I think personally your plan is safer and cheaper which is always a plus in my book.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.